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 Blackie wrote:
Killing power yes, but tough as before or actually even less considering that anti tank weapons are becoming more efficient.

I always played the gunship with lascannons and heavy bolters as 250 points wasn't bad for the whole thing, but now it's 360 (or 370 with meltas) unless you give it the missiles which are pretty terrible.

250 points + 85 for the unit inside was a good bargain, 360 + 100 is a different story. At least infantries doubled their wounds, so its cargo becomes way more effective.

Aww crap, forgot to count lascannon and melta array twice in the cost. Yeah that makes is a bit more salty.


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Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Stormfang/wolf got a massive points hike,
more than 100 points, although it's also more deadly now. But I'm extremely disappointed for that.

Bjorn, wulfen, and TWC (5ppm shields!) slightly cheaper.

I bought both Repulsors quite recently so was properly disappointed about their sweeping nerfs.. so I'd much rather take a Stormfang than either of the Repulsors. In that context the Fang doesn't seem overly expensive, it has a lot of killing power. Not a huge fan of random number of shots though.

I will just shelf all the marine / Space Wolves tanks and big flyers. In 8th they were priced as if they always receive Chapter Master and LT. buff, they were already overpriced. In 9th, they get a price hike and specifically been removed from the list that those characters buff could apply, while also lost fly for Impulsor and Repulsor. So I think they have no place in SM or SW army.


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I'd just take 3 packs of Long Fangs if I need fire support.

I still think the Impulsor is a great taxi for Bladeguard and a character. The problem is if you take 1-2 vehicles they're gonna get popped kinda quickly unless you hide them well, since people tend to bring antitank... *shrug*

I asked earlier, but does not the long fangs loose some of their unique rules and now have SM rules? When did they get a cherub? Or the targeting thing? I though thry just rerolled 1's?

Neophyte2012 wrote:


I will just shelf all the marine / Space Wolves tanks and big flyers. In 8th they were priced as if they always receive Chapter Master and LT. buff, they were already overpriced. In 9th, they get a price hike and specifically been removed from the list that those characters buff could apply, while also lost fly for Impulsor and Repulsor. So I think they have no place in SM or SW army.

I'll still take razorbacks and rhinos. My army hasn't got a single primaris model though.


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 Niiai wrote:
I asked earlier, but does not the long fangs loose some of their unique rules and now have SM rules? When did they get a cherub? Or the targeting thing? I though thry just rerolled 1's?

They don't get the re-roll of 1s anymore but can take a cherub yes. Unit size is still the long fangs one, not the devastators'. But they also got access to grav.

You youngsters with your gravety gun and your cherubs. When I was young we had our feet planted on the ground like Russ intended. None of this messing with gravety or deepstriking terminators.

Do note that one Long Fang can shoot at BS 2+ if the Pack leader is alive, and you can use the cherub on him to shoot twice.

Has Wolf Guard Pack Leader always been an addition to a pack? I always thought the WGPL replaces the normal PL... or am I just remembering it wrong, been so long since I played minimarines.

Always in addition. Basically a 2nd sgt for the squad.

He can also pack a terminator rocket launcher if you are interested in that sort of thing.

Can Wulfen get into transports now?

Wulfen also lost their 5+ FNP and did not gain an extra wound. The extra Toughness helps, but they still feel more fragile.

bmsattler wrote:
Can Wulfen get into transports now?

Wulfen also lost their 5+ FNP and did not gain an extra wound. The extra Toughness helps, but they still feel more fragile.

Ok on a 2nd look, they lost: fight twice, Advance and charge, 5+ FNP, +1 attack Aura.

Wulfen now: T5, Always counts as charging (shock assault, +1 to hit), Always count as in assault doc (additional hits on rolls of 6 to hit, and AP -1 added to weapons)

They will work great as a Heroic intervention threat, also as a counter punch to other Elite melee units (punish death stars for being too killy)

Goonhammer did a nice review of the Space Wolves index, and according to them Wulfen are now hot garbage while Thunderwolf Cavalry are amazeballs, and I tend to agree. The question is, what to put on our TWC? I've got some that have been sitting unopened since late 7th edition as well as a Canis Wolfborn that is primed but not painted, and I'd love to have an excuse to build and paint these guys.

Okay I overlooked the FnP and losing the fight twice on Wulfen. Seems they will remain benched. I ordered a box of Wulfen just to get the shields and some Wolfy bits on my Bladeguard, but I might as well leave the Wulfen guys unassembled to save time and hassle (I hate assembling btw).

TWC probably pretty barebones: Chainsword + SS on all except the boss with TH + SS? This used to be the meta earlier, guess that still works?

 Weazel wrote:
Okay I overlooked the FnP and losing the fight twice on Wulfen. Seems they will remain benched. I ordered a box of Wulfen just to get the shields and some Wolfy bits on my Bladeguard, but I might as well leave the Wulfen guys unassembled to save time and hassle (I hate assembling btw).

TWC probably pretty barebones: Chainsword + SS on all except the boss with TH + SS? This used to be the meta earlier, guess that still works?

Or just Powerfist. Is it 11pts now? It has better AP than TH, so they could be comparable in usage but PF is much lower in cost.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Okay I overlooked the FnP and losing the fight twice on Wulfen. Seems they will remain benched. I ordered a box of Wulfen just to get the shields and some Wolfy bits on my Bladeguard, but I might as well leave the Wulfen guys unassembled to save time and hassle (I hate assembling btw).

TWC probably pretty barebones: Chainsword + SS on all except the boss with TH + SS? This used to be the meta earlier, guess that still works?

Or just Powerfist. Is it 11pts now? It has better AP than TH, so they could be comparable in usage but PF is much lower in cost.

Well yeah powerfists are the meta, I suppose I can proxy my TH guys as PF. *shrug* Not in the mood for getting more TWC at this point. Their big bases make them kinda clumsy.

TWC also got -1AP on the attacks made by wolves.

I'd keep them cheap, with D1-2 weapons. Some chainswords mostly, maybe a couple of fists. Shields for everyone.

I don't think TWC have suddenly become amazing while wulfen are trash, there's too much hyperbole in that. IMHO TWC are now good and wulfen are now meh. I'll use both in my first games with the new rules.

I'm looking for a relic to my warlord now that both Wulfen Stone and Armour of Russ are gone. I'll probably go with Wyrmsplitter for a TWC wolf lord, cheaper (115pts or 125 with shield) than the old TH/SS loadout but still interesting.

Wulfen Might have lost their cheese but imo I think they are better than the Blade guard veterans. I'm looking forward to running Wulfen dreads nothing but buffs on them

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Wulfen Might have lost their cheese but imo I think they are better than the Blade guard veterans. I'm looking forward to running Wulfen dreads nothing but buffs on them

Umm, no. W3 2+/4++ with access to Transhuman Physiology is from Planet Vastly Superior compared to Wulfen. They are beasts in melee as well with Vicious Executioners available.

Going to probably stick with just 6 Bladeguard, because buying heavily into FoTM never ends too well.

 Weazel wrote:
Okay I overlooked the FnP and losing the fight twice on Wulfen. Seems they will remain benched. I ordered a box of Wulfen just to get the shields and some Wolfy bits on my Bladeguard, but I might as well leave the Wulfen guys unassembled to save time and hassle (I hate assembling btw).

TWC probably pretty barebones: Chainsword + SS on all except the boss with TH + SS? This used to be the meta earlier, guess that still works?

I'd go with a lighting claw over a chainsword. the benifits are pretty nuts

BrianDavion wrote:


I'd go with a lighting claw over a chainsword. the benifits are pretty nuts

Claws are interesting now. They lost +1S but gained -1AP and even a single one grants +1A. Also cheaper, now 5 pts.

 Blackie wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


I'd go with a lighting claw over a chainsword. the benifits are pretty nuts

Claws are interesting now. They lost +1S but gained -1AP and even a single one grants +1A. Also cheaper, now 5 pts.

the end result is a very solid identity for the weapons. they're our infantry blenderers.

Man, I really wanne get back into SW now. But I have just assemmbeled cult models and are painting them.

I, for one, am a little disappointed in the way this new codex is playing out. I hope the supp gives us back some of our individuality. I suppose we gain a lot of the same tricks that SM players can pull off, but I didn't start SW to play a SM chapter, ya' know? Anyway I digress.

Does the new chief apothecary ressurrection seem like a solid buy for a unit of TWC?

And the way dreadnaughts are now, being core and the new duty eternal hotness, What's the best type and loadout for dreadnaughts now?

Space wolves can't take apothecarys.

We can't take the following.

Apothecarys, Assault Squads, Devistator squads, sternguard vets, tactical squads, or vanguard vets. Page 124 of the codex.

We will probably get wolf priests back with the supplement. i wouldn't be too concerned about it at the moment. At the moment our wolf priests are just normal chaplains.

Bah, I misread something elsewhere then.

I thought that was the trade off of making our Wolf Priests regular chaplains.

My mistake!

 Weazel wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Wulfen Might have lost their cheese but imo I think they are better than the Blade guard veterans. I'm looking forward to running Wulfen dreads nothing but buffs on them

Umm, no. W3 2+/4++ with access to Transhuman Physiology is from Planet Vastly Superior compared to Wulfen. They are beasts in melee as well with Vicious Executioners available.

Going to probably stick with just 6 Bladeguard, because buying heavily into FoTM never ends too well.

Wulfen have S5, T5 3+/4++ with access to Transhuman Physiology and with their rules (+1 attack, additional AP-1, +1 attack that auto hits on 6s, +1 to hit rolls). Even if blade guard veterans charge first and kill a bunch, Wulfin still get to attack will all attacks at (if using TH/SS) 4 attacks, hitting on 3 with 6s adds 1 additional hit , S10, ap -3, damage 3.



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 Weazel wrote:

While they kinda suffered from Storm Shield nerf they did gain a point of toughness and the weapon options outside of thunderhammer got cheaper. Oddly enough their stormshield doesn't have a cost listed but I'm sure that is a mistake.

TH/SS for wulfin have a combined cost, under Wolfguard terminators the TH and SS add up to the same cost

Jimbobbyish wrote:

 Weazel wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Wulfen Might have lost their cheese but imo I think they are better than the Blade guard veterans. I'm looking forward to running Wulfen dreads nothing but buffs on them

Umm, no. W3 2+/4++ with access to Transhuman Physiology is from Planet Vastly Superior compared to Wulfen. They are beasts in melee as well with Vicious Executioners available.

Going to probably stick with just 6 Bladeguard, because buying heavily into FoTM never ends too well.

Wulfen have S5, T5 3+/4++ with access to Transhuman Physiology and with their rules (+1 attack, additional AP-1, +1 attack that auto hits on 6s, +1 to hit rolls). Even if blade guard veterans charge first and kill a bunch, Wulfin still get to attack will all attacks at (if using TH/SS) 4 attacks, hitting on 3 with 6s adds 1 additional hit , S10, ap -3, damage 3.



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 Weazel wrote:

While they kinda suffered from Storm Shield nerf they did gain a point of toughness and the weapon options outside of thunderhammer got cheaper. Oddly enough their stormshield doesn't have a cost listed but I'm sure that is a mistake.

TH/SS for wulfin have a combined cost, under Wolfguard terminators the TH and SS add up to the same cost

Transhuman Physiology is for Primaris only, so there's that. I'm just not impressed with Wulfen durability, especially since the only taxis they can get are Land Raiders and Stormwolves. Both of which are ridiculously overpriced for what they are. Impulsor is a lot easier sell. In a game where durability is KEY I will take Bladeguard over Wulfen every day of the week. I mean Wulfen still hit hard I'm not denying that, but they are a complete glass cannon. I might try them at some point but don't fool yourself into thinking that Wulfen are any kind of "meta" at this point. Just my 2c.

Wulfen definitely are not meta, they are slightly faster, more punch blade guard vets with less durability. They still have a place, but its not the top tier omg run 3 squads of 5 and win that they were in 8th. And thats fine with me, I never bought into them hard anyways. But I do see a single squad of 5 hiding behind obscured terrain as a great counter charge unit.

Azuza001 wrote:
Wulfen definitely are not meta, they are slightly faster, more punch blade guard vets with less durability. They still have a place, but its not the top tier omg run 3 squads of 5 and win that they were in 8th. And thats fine with me, I never bought into them hard anyways. But I do see a single squad of 5 hiding behind obscured terrain as a great counter charge unit.

This. When all of the top lists are running only wulfen in our elite slots, it seems like a change is needed. They are still durable, but also seem to fill a support roll giving rerolled charges for a squad of TWC or helping a jump pack squad of Wolfguard with Shields and Fists get that charge off. Rather than a front line now are they almost better as a counter charge unit?

I would be interested to see if they get further tweaks in the supplement.

As they can't get rerolls anymore and the SS got nerfed, they are now probably used with axes. For 162 points their aren't too bad

Ragnar69 wrote:
As they can't get rerolls anymore and the SS got nerfed, they are now probably used with axes. For 162 points their aren't too bad

I could see giving up on the 5-shield squads. But with everything else on the table going up in wounds and these guys staying at 2, I think you'll need a few shields to keep them alive. Also in cover they are now sporting a 2+ armor save with the shield on. Which could drastically help their resistance to massed small arms fire.

Ultimately I think these guys still have a place along side TWC, being able to move through breachable terrain to get to juicy targets could catch some opponents off-guard.

I still think frost claws are best left to the leader. My favorite loadout has been 2 hammer/shields, 2 axes.

Speaking of Wulfen, Wulfen dread with Axe/shield vs Ven dread with axe/shield. Duty eternal really helps their survivability, combined with 4++ puts them over other dreads. But would you take 8"M and re-roll charges, or 6+++?