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6+++ all day long for myself.

I haven't seen the new Ven Dread data sheet, have there been other changes besides Duty Eternal?

It can smokescreen, but there isnt anything a wulfen dread can do that a ven can't beyond the 6+++. But I have had that 6+++ save may bacon too many times over the course of games that I will take the extra chance for survival over the extra 2" move. Otherwise what a wulfen dread can do over a venerable dreadnought.... any other bonuses they can pull honestly at the end of the day a ven would do the same amount of dmg.

So 6" move and 6+++ or 8" movement and reroll charges. Take your pick :p.

I prefer better movement and re-roll charges. It's a unit that I want to be in combat as soon as possible, adding 1-2 extra wounds thanks to the 6+++ doesn't look that appealing to me: if I can't reach the target the dread is going to die without doing anything anyway.

 Blackie wrote:
I prefer better movement and re-roll charges. It's a unit that I want to be in combat as soon as possible, adding 1-2 extra wounds thanks to the 6+++ doesn't look that appealing to me: if I can't reach the target the dread is going to die without doing anything anyway.

Yeah I feel yeah, with the improved Axe Cleave our dreads can really mix it up with infantry and vehicles/monsters.

Shoot I didn't consider adding a Master of the Forge, +1 attack for our deards and healing 3 damage would really push dreads over the edge.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
Shoot I didn't consider adding a Master of the Forge, +1 attack for our deards and healing 3 damage would really push dreads over the edge.

They're still only T7 W8 models. Curious if you have a game plan how to get them across the board? Especially with stuff like Eradicators existing within the game. 4++ save only goes so far. This is a legit question since I love dreads and would like to use them but they always seem to fall a little flat. Murderfang I might still use, since he was criminally undercosted at 135 so a 15 point hike is not unreasonable. Sure he lost double fight from Only in Death Does Duty End and Core keyword, but he can still put down the hurt and is still a character.

I really like the -1 damage though. It means D2 does very little. Even D3 is quite bad vs them.

 Niiai wrote:
I really like the -1 damage though. It means D2 does very little. Even D3 is quite bad vs them.

My Dreads are getting killed by Lascannons, Missiles etc, doesn't really help that much against them. Don't get me wrong, I love a free Duty Eternal but they're still a bit squishy. Going to try them for sure but not holding my breath. Maybe a Blizzard Shield Wulfen dread with his 8" move and rerollable charge might actually reach melee every once in a while. Maybe even two of those backed up by Murderfang. Might give some breathing room for Impulsors for a turn or two.

You are facing missiles in 8th/9th edition? I thought that was unheard of. Lascannons I can understand.

My ork opponent has a Morkanaut who does D6 damage. Some rockets (D3) and flash gits (D2.) They deal with my nids and GSC very well. But I doubt it would do much vs dreadnoughts.

Wolf Guard with jump packs are basically Vanguard Veterans, but with access to some nice Wolf Guard specific strats. They seem like a very good deal now.

Space Wolves are also one of a few armies that can still use a Judiciar effectively with their better heroic interventions.

A min squad of Skyclaws with wolf guard can take 3 special weapons and a combi for what that's worth, 4 flamers when deep striking then charging (results may very)

Jimbobbyish wrote:
A min squad of Skyclaws with wolf guard can take 3 special weapons and a combi for what that's worth, 4 flamers when deep striking then charging (results may very)

Good call. However if you kit them out with full melta (3 meltaguns+ 1 combi) it is 160 points for 4 melta shots. It makes me sad you'll get 6 melta shots for 120 points if you take Eradicators. Sure, Skyclaws are faster and they have some assault punch (and meltabomb) as well but yeah... Don't want this to become an Eradicator trash thread but they should be at least 50ppm.

Man, I am feeling a bit hyped for SM. After I have finished my GSC (probably by the end of the year) I am thinking about getting into SW again.

I stoped playing SW when 6th edition came rolling in. I played some DE in 6th before i gave up.

So what I have are a whole lot of firstborn marines. How do they compare with the primsris option? In particular how do the Swiftclaw bikes compare to those new primaris bikes? Are the old index options stil legal?

I did all sorts of SW lists. Agresive drop pod lists. Grey hunters in transports, backed up by longfangs. Biker squads. Flamer/melta landspeeders. And of courde i loved the wolf rider models. Are any of this OK?

I also really REALLY loved wolf guards. You could peel them of and put them in different squad. That means you could get 2 heavy weapon terminators in a five man squad (because you had peeled off 5 others.) Further you could mix power armour and terminatir armour. I really loved that.

Index options are all dead. Also Swiftclaws are no more, they are just regular bikers. Outriders are fine, not spectacular by any means, and they are 15 points more expensive than old bikes. Old bikes can also take special and melee weapons and are not limited to just 3 models. You actually only lose one wound and get worse bolters as regular bikes compared to outriders, so I would say normal bikes might still work okay. Probably not super competitive and your fast attack slots are going to be contested, because:

Thunderwolf Cavalry got significantly better, close to the point of being autoincludes in competitive lists. So if you like them good news for you.

Wolf Guard Pack Leader rules are also pretty much intact.

So most of what you said are still legit, possibly not top shelf competitive but passable at least.

That is cool. All cool.

Looking at the thuderwolves they can replace their chainsword for a shield. They replace the pistol for another weapon. This seems very odd to me, but OK. It is what it is.

Do any of you see any odballs in there? For the most part I imagine we will se at least 1 powerfist/hammer and shield, just for the S8 attack. 60/65 points.

But are we gonne se shield/gun for 50 points? You loose out of the chainsword: Going from 3 S4 Ap1 d1 + 3 S5 Ap2 d1 to 2 S4 Ap0 d1 + 3 S5 Ap2 d1 does not seem so bad. The 2+ 4++ on a T5 4W seems well worth it.

What do you think of taking a shield and claw/axe/maul/sword or just a chainsword and claw/axe/maul/sword for 55 or 50 points? I can not deside.

Claws are 75% chance to wound vs T4. 88% to wound vs T3. 55% to wound vs T5. I am not sure how it compares to sword or axe. Maul seems unesasery, even with S6 vs T3.

I'm going with claw and shield for everyone in a 5 man squad. 1-2 chainswords if I really struggle with points and can't shave from enything else. For just 5 points (and a ton of multidamage weapons around) the shield is a must.

OK. I do not know if the claw is worth it for 5 points as you stil have a lot of attacks. I would also have some form of Sx2 weapon in there as you never know what you will meet. I respect your take on it though.

Some other questions, can wulfen now take regular transports beeing troops and all? And can SW terminators ride in a drop pod, either singel unit, or as a part of another unit?

Also some other questions:

How is the attack bike squad? Can the leader take a specialweapon/melta, and 2 members can take a melta? So that squad can have 3 models and 3 meltas (or flamers?)

 Blackie wrote:
I'm going with claw and shield for everyone in a 5 man squad. 1-2 chainswords if I really struggle with points and can't shave from enything else. For just 5 points (and a ton of multidamage weapons around) the shield is a must.

I can appreciate the claw love. I think I would still put a powerfist/hammer on the pack leader. It can really ensure the kill when you come up against a monster/vehicle. Not only that, but your opponent will inherently see them as more threatening because of the higher strength and high AP weaponry, allowing them to soak more hate as a true distraction carnifex-style unit.

Never mind, I got bad intel.

Two questions: Wolf guards, are stormshields for them only 4 points? Next question, wolf guards in terminator armour have the option for stormshields, but their prise is not listed. What is up with that?

Persobally I think 1+ 4++ 3 wound models sounds tasty. At least they are hard to shift.

 Weazel wrote:
Index options are all dead. Also Swiftclaws are no more, they are just regular bikers. Outriders are fine, not spectacular by any means, and they are 15 points more expensive than old bikes. Old bikes can also take special and melee weapons and are not limited to just 3 models. You actually only lose one wound and get worse bolters as regular bikes compared to outriders, so I would say normal bikes might still work okay. Probably not super competitive and your fast attack slots are going to be contested, because:

Thunderwolf Cavalry got significantly better, close to the point of being autoincludes in competitive lists. So if you like them good news for you.

Wolf Guard Pack Leader rules are also pretty much intact.

So most of what you said are still legit, possibly not top shelf competitive but passable at least.

swiftclaws are regular bikes, however they can be taken in a MUCH larger squad size, so thats worth noting.

 Niiai wrote:
OK. I do not know if the claw is worth it for 5 points as you stil have a lot of attacks. I would also have some form of Sx2 weapon in there as you never know what you will meet. I respect your take on it though.

It depends on what role you need for those TWC. I typically play them to wipe out hordes to max out their S5 potential granted by the the cavalry. Claws help a lot if the goal is to kill units like 30 boyz, now a 5 man squad of TWC can actually do it and with that many attacks with some AP they can also be a threat to heavy infantry. I don't think TWC are worth of the anti monster/vehicle role, I prefer termies, characters and ranged weapons for that. Sticking a single high strenght weapon in the squad isn't wrong though.

 Niiai wrote:

Some other questions, can wulfen now take regular transports beeing troops and all?

Wulfen still can't ride in rhinos, razorbacks or drop pods.

I do not know what to think about the bikes loosing the +1 attack on a charge and now loosing out on that new sweet chainsword as well.

I have not looked at the models in while, but preatty shure i modeled them with chainswords. :-p

 Niiai wrote:
I do not know what to think about the bikes loosing the +1 attack on a charge and now loosing out on that new sweet chainsword as well.

I have not looked at the models in while, but preatty shure i modeled them with chainswords. :-p

"Any number of Space Marine Bikers can each have their bolt pistol replaced with 1 Astartes Chainsword." Also they have Angels of Death so they get +1 attack on the charge (and when charged or heroically intervene). So I'm not sure what you mean?

Ah, no I am not sure I know what I mean either. Through my 20 years of playing the game I have never used Space Marine Bikers, only the space wolf version. I am not buying the SM codex, I will buy the SW codex. I am just trying to plan a list from my old 5th edition marines. I really loved the fast attack slot. Often with many bikes.

It is just hard to understand the unit entry.

 Niiai wrote:
Ah, no I am not sure I know what I mean either. Through my 20 years of playing the game I have never used Space Marine Bikers, only the space wolf version. I am not buying the SM codex, I will buy the SW codex. I am just trying to plan a list from my old 5th edition marines. I really loved the fast attack slot. Often with many bikes.

It is just hard to understand the unit entry.

there is no space wolf codex, only a supplement. it's a little more expensive but it's honestly not that bad. we gained more then we've lost.

Ok.

I think I am in love with terninators in this new codex. Picture this:

3 x stormshield/powersword
1 x powerfist/stormbolter
1 x cyclone missile launcher, powerfist

200 points, a bargain shurly.

Good for waddeling out and grabbing an objective. Good at charging things of objectives. The 2 stormbolters and missile launcher means they can give a reach out if the opponent ignores them. But more importantly T4 3W 1+ 4++ is very resilient for 33 points. I really like them!

In a 2000 point army having one or two of these will be a headace for your opponent to shift away from objectives I think. What do you think?

I was about to say something about teleport striking with them, but I notice in the index that ability is gone.

Are the terminator wolf brothers superstitious again!?

They have teleport strike. Is that what you are thinking of?

Yeah, I haven't picked up the codex yet. I have been basing things off of the index, and I didn't see teleport strike under the Wolf Guard Terminators entry in the index.

With teleport strike they can easily help score secondary objectives and be a thorn in your opponents side. If you go first you can either drop them near objective turn one for a "hold the line!" kind of approach. If you go second it would be an option to drop them into your opponents side of the table to draw fire while the jaws of the wolf close in on them from the other side!

They could score engage on all fronts pretty easily and, with their resilience, could stick around to continue providing that score unless your opponent is wise enough to dedicate themselves to wiping them out.