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 Stormonu wrote:
It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.

Well, we all know why that limitation is there.

They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.

Well, we all know why that limitation is there.

They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.

So why don't they want to sell me another box?

The funny thing is that they have very few limitations in Kill Team, so you could for example make a list of 11 Negavolt Cultists or 14 Beastmen.

Having another box (or a buddy's set) would also increase the difficulty - being able to roll more reinforcements for your models/units.

 Elbows wrote:
Having another box (or a buddy's set) would also increase the difficulty - being able to roll more reinforcements for your models/units.

That's something I've also been thinking about and I'm really considering buying another set of hostiles off ebay. Negavolt cultist spam in Kill Team would be an added bonus.

And, assuming you're not playing in tournaments - I'd be chuffed to see a couple units of Beastmen in the Chaos inventory, etc.

With the Vigilus thread closed, I quote it here. Another traitor faction getting new models, although no hint at a release date yet

A new Berzerkers kit would send me over the top and push me into a World Eaters force.

[..]

Bob - War of Sigmar - Disqus

40k khorne stuff have been rdy for a while we'll see when they release it. i hope soon

 Mysterio wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


What I don't want to see are things like Farseers, Lieutenants, Warboss' etc starting to get involved as Explorers. They've got far better things to be getting on with, even for a prize such as a Blackstone. Simply put, the more important and higher ranked peeps are out of the game's scale.

Maybe for 'game balance' but in the setting itself, that's exactly who *would* show up there, looking to take over.

Not at all at this point. The Blackstone Fortress is not known enough yet for any armies to be sent there. And with no armies, youre not going to see Farseers or Warbosses there, and by the time they show up, there will already be a full-scale war as Yodhrin also painted out, with fleet engagements in the system. Precipice would most likely be abandoned at this point..

I smell a battlefleet gothic reboot

Messiah wrote:
Not at all at this point. The Blackstone Fortress is not known enough yet for any armies to be sent there. And with no armies, youre not going to see Farseers or Warbosses there, and by the time they show up, there will already be a full-scale war as Yodhrin also painted out, with fleet engagements in the system. Precipice would most likely be abandoned at this point..

Why would a Farseer need anyone, never mind an army, to tell him/her about it?

Warp powered temporal dampeners to prevent scrying or any kind of prescient detection.

Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.

No one but the scavengers care?

The lore seemed pretty clear to me that warp paths o the area just recently opened up, and the Imperium -the most likely force to go sweeping through an ancient ships grave yard- is mostly occupied and already represented there by a rogue trader.

In effect, Draik IS the official investigation, at least on part of the Imperium.

It’s also in an area where, seemingly, no race has strategic assets close to.

It’s out in uncharted space, and the directions seem to be pretty much ‘over there, somewhere. Probably’, matched with expansive arm gestures.

In terms of military assets, now isn’t exactly the best time for any faction to go a-wandering. Especially given the extensive debris field around the Blackstone. You want your fleet to end up in there? Or send relatively covert agents to suss it out first?

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.

Well, we all know why that limitation is there.

They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.

So why don't they want to sell me another box?

Give it time, I'm willing to wager that both Dark Mech and Rouge Guard will be codexes before 2020 gets here.

Previous board games with 40k compatibility have not limited the use of infantry non unique models e.g Deathwatch Overkill, WHQ Silver Tower, Burning of Prospero custodes and sisters and Tartaros.

It’s almost a sideswipe at resellers who break down boxes.....

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Previous board games with 40k compatibility have not limited the use of infantry non unique models e.g Deathwatch Overkill, WHQ Silver Tower, Burning of Prospero custodes and sisters and Tartaros.

It’s almost a sideswipe at resellers who break down boxes.....

About 90% sure that when DW:OK was released, at very least the DW half was limited to exactly the models and count that was in the boxed set.

The Genestealer Cult half too - hence the complaining over a Purestrain genestealer unit of two models.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Previous board games with 40k compatibility have not limited the use of infantry non unique models e.g Deathwatch Overkill, WHQ Silver Tower, Burning of Prospero custodes and sisters and Tartaros.

It’s almost a sideswipe at resellers who break down boxes.....

About 90% sure that when DW:OK was released, at very least the DW half was limited to exactly the models and count that was in the boxed set.

Precisely, it was even dumb enough that all the models were in one unit, leading to endless arguments how exactly unit consisting of foot marines, bikes, terminators and vanguard vets should move or if it should use 'run' rules or 'turbo boost' rules or advance or whatever (man, I almost forgot dumb bloat of past editions for a second...) with some jokers even arguing RAW it cannot move at all

Keeping the 40k rules to reflect the contents of the box also prevents waste.

You don't want the competitive 40k players buying up 5+ boxes of Blackstone Fortress, selling a bunch of stuff on e-bay and throwing away all the books and tokens. That's just a waste of material, encourages the 3rd party market to grow (which GW doesn't want), and puts strain on the supply of the Blackstone Fortress box.

Just look at the Kill Team starter set. It's a fantastic value of terrain and miniatures, but it's been in and out of stock since launch. I only bought one set, but I know plenty of people in the local store that bought three or more. Then, after release, guys that learned about Kill Team and wanted to get into it couldn't get their hands on a starter box and lost interest.

GW doesn't want something like that happening again. So instead of making a generic Chaos Lord datasheet with Thunder Hammer and his unlimited Traitor Guardsmen, they'll make strict datasheets that reflect the contents of the box. If the datasheets end up being super powerful somehow, netlisters and tournament players won't have need of any more than one, which keeps demand on the box predictable and stable.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.

This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).

If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.

If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.

angryboy2k wrote:
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is.

Yeah, you just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

drbored wrote:
Keeping the 40k rules to reflect the contents of the box also prevents waste.

You don't want the competitive 40k players buying up 5+ boxes of Blackstone Fortress, selling a bunch of stuff on e-bay and throwing away all the books and tokens. That's just a waste of material, encourages the 3rd party market to grow (which GW doesn't want), and puts strain on the supply of the Blackstone Fortress box.

Just look at the Kill Team starter set. It's a fantastic value of terrain and miniatures, but it's been in and out of stock since launch. I only bought one set, but I know plenty of people in the local store that bought three or more. Then, after release, guys that learned about Kill Team and wanted to get into it couldn't get their hands on a starter box and lost interest.

GW doesn't want something like that happening again. So instead of making a generic Chaos Lord datasheet with Thunder Hammer and his unlimited Traitor Guardsmen, they'll make strict datasheets that reflect the contents of the box. If the datasheets end up being super powerful somehow, netlisters and tournament players won't have need of any more than one, which keeps demand on the box predictable and stable.

Yeah, like that was even ever a problem with running out of copies of Space Hulk, Calth, Prospero, Overkill, Forgebane, Wake the Dead or any of the other boxed sets that GW has produced where people bought the models and tossed the cardboard/booklets. It's not like they'd create more if there were demand for the minis...

You kidding? I own six copies of Lost Patrol.

Needed them Scouts, yo!

angryboy2k wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.

This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).

If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.

If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.

The debris field is described in some places as 1 million miles across - twice the diameter of the moon's orbit around the earth, but about 1% of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Also, it's not solid, just sufficiently dense as to be a navigation hazard (with the possible complication of having active defences and hostile vessels amongst the debris. I imagine it's denser towards the centre, too. Also, who knows how long it's been there? Has it been luring ships in since T. rex walked the earth?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.

This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).

If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.

If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.

The debris field is described in some places as 1 million miles across - twice the diameter of the moon's orbit around the earth, but about 1% of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Also, it's not solid, just sufficiently dense as to be a navigation hazard (with the possible complication of having active defences and hostile vessels amongst the debris. I imagine it's denser towards the centre, too. Also, who knows how long it's been there? Has it been luring ships in since T. rex walked the earth?

In the UR-025 sort story (Black Library Advent), they encounter the skeletal remains of alien explorers whose race died off well before the Great Crusade. So the Fortress has definitely been drawing in people for quite a while.

 Togusa wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
It’s really annoying that the 40K datasheets attempt to limit you to adding only a single box’s content to a game. There’s absolutely no reason they should have limited the number of Negavolt, Rogue Psyker, Beastmen and most especially traitor guardsmen squads you can add to your army. It’s an aggravatingly stupid limitation that has no business existing.

Well, we all know why that limitation is there.

They make rules to fit the miniatures. You have 14 Traitor Guardsmen in the box, therefore the rules allow for no more and no less, armed exactly as the models are.

So why don't they want to sell me another box?

Give it time, I'm willing to wager that both Dark Mech and Rouge Guard will be codexes before 2020 gets here.

Ahh, the Rouge Guard. Defending the Emperor's Make-up Box for over 10,000 years

Other wise, I am expecting at least one new Chaos Codex. More than one would be nice, but could be compiled into a single volume.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Enough random mooks heard about it that their wrecked ships form a solar system sized debris field, but not a single governing body of any faction knows about it. Amazing.

This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is. To fill just 1% of the dsc-shaped, planar (flat) region between Earth and the moon, you'd need 226,822,798 Battlefleet Gothic battlecruisers (assuming 10km long by 2km wide by 2km tall).

If you wanted to fill 1% of 1% (one 10,000th) of the Earth-Sun planar area, you'd need 35,342,887,500 battlecruisers.

If you're looking at the VOLUME of space, the numbers are truly astronomical. To fill one 10,000th of the Earth-Moon system's volume, you'd be looking at over one trillion battlecruisers.

The debris field is described in some places as 1 million miles across - twice the diameter of the moon's orbit around the earth, but about 1% of the Earth's orbit around the sun. Also, it's not solid, just sufficiently dense as to be a navigation hazard (with the possible complication of having active defences and hostile vessels amongst the debris. I imagine it's denser towards the centre, too. Also, who knows how long it's been there? Has it been luring ships in since T. rex walked the earth?

So at twice the diameter of the moon's orbit, you'd be looking at four times the area. I don't know how full it'd need to be to represent a navigation hazard, but at a density of 1% wrecked ships, you'd still be looking at 900 million wrecked ships.

However, I don't see how a flat disc of debris would represent a substantial navigational hazard unless it were impossible to somehow go around it. If it were a CLOUD of debris of roughly spherical shape, 1 million miles across, an average debris density of just 0.001% (one part in 100,000) would be the equivalent of 4,289,317,546,667 Battlefleet Gothic-type of battlecruisers. If the Blackstone Fortress has been attracting spacecraft since the end of the age of the dinosaurs (65 million years ago), it would have been bringing them in at the rate of 65,990 spaceships per year. That's 181 battlecruiser-equivalents every single day, for the last 65 million years.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
This "solar-system sized" debris field really showcases how hard it is for us puny humans to grasp just how big space is.

Yeah, you just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.

Douglas Adams FTW! He knew what he was talking about.

It's debris, not whole ships- I'd suppose that there is far more danger from relatively tiny pieces of debris that are still able to dage a ship if they strike it, like what happens in the sample chapter of the novel.

Could something like that may reduce the over all density of proper ships in the cloud while making it more dangerous?

It's only a navigation hazard if you're trying to get to the fortress. I could see it being a generally flat disc with a thicker middle around the station itself - like the galaxy.