Warhammer {{{40k}}} Quest - Blackstone Fortress

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**Not Online!!!**

silverstu wrote:
I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..

i guess this is the issue, it was probably the perfect stepping stone to add auxilia to tau, add corsairs and exodite options , heck use the SoA as a basis for an actual Lost and the damned dex.

**shadowsfm**

i would like to see white dwarf adding rules to include existing modals to blackstone fortress, like for example a dark eldar hero vs the genestealer cult

**Necronmaniac05**

There's a lot of people putting a downer on BSF here I'd be interested to know how well it sold overall. It got a two year run with more content than any previous modern WQ line. Plenty of new unique sculpts were created for the game too.

Maybe its finished because they've told the story they wanted to tell and want to try something different with the WQ brand? I don't think you can read too much else into them stopping production of it because all the WQ games released since silver tower have been limited run products.

**Lord Damocles**

On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.

**Prometheum5**

Lord Damocles wrote:
On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.

I don't remember how specific the first novel got but I feel like there was enough there to build a decent picture of the Fortress in your mind. The previous Blackstones were all identical designs and this one is surrounded by a massive ship graveyard. It's enough to give you the vibe.

**Lord Damocles**

Prometheum5 wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:
On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.

I don't remember how specific the first novel got but I feel like there was enough there to build a decent picture of the Fortress in your mind. The previous Blackstones were all identical designs and this one is surrounded by a massive ship graveyard. It's enough to give you the vibe.

The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).

The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I

**spiralingcadaver**

Lord Damocles wrote:

The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).

The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I

The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs, and I think this is the first time an interior has been very fleshed out visually. One of Abnett's Night Lords books has them on Huron's BSF, which is a huge operation, a combined HQ and major port. I think it comes up again in some of the stories around 7th-8th transition.

**Shadow Walker**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:

The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).

The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I

The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs, and I think this is the first time an interior has been very fleshed out visually. One of Abnett's Night Lords books has them on Huron's BSF, which is a huge operation, a combined HQ and major port. I think it comes up again in some of the stories around 7th-8th transition.

I think you mean Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords series

**spiralingcadaver**

Yep. Trying to remember GW authors before coffee may not have been wise.

**GaroRobe**

The first book has some really weird interior details. Like looping rooms, where you escape, only to end up back in the same place. Weird rivers that burn anything alive/conscious. And the fortress is able to attempt to "crush" things it doesn't like inside of itself.

I want to say the looping room was also really bright and white. It was a weird novel.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Received my copy of Ascension.

It’s a hefty old box of stuff, with a divider you’re not to remove until the game says to do so....

I had to though. Given that’s where the Sentinel’s bases were.

**Lord Damocles**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:

The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).

The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I

The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs

Where?

There's the outline profile on the pg.6 map of the Background booklet, which is vaguely similar to the Gothic Blackstones, but lacking any detail; and there's the couple of pieces of artwork which show small portions of the exterior surface which get repeatedly reused (eg. Background pgs.4-5 & 8-9), which don't appear to match the depictions of the Gothic Blackstones (which lack multiple small pyramids on the exterior - compare to the relatively detailed overall depictions in Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, pgs.127 & 145; Gathering Storm: Rise of the Primarch, pg.64; the actual BFG model; etc.)

**Dryaktylus**

silverstu wrote:
I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..

Well, you need a main opponent, in this case the Chaos guys. The drones were a nice feature and an option to change the main threat as they're part of the fortress. The Ur-Ghuls... I don't know.

We had Space Crusade where you could find rooms full of Orks, Genestealers and Chaos Space Marines - that was not exactly what I define as consistent or atmospheric. Advanced Space Crusade was a different beast - main opponent, different forces.

Space Hulk had some additional rules (don't remember Eldar and Chaos Space Marines if you don't count the Traitor Terminators that were just... Terminators... vs Terminators), but they were mostly rubbish. Space Hulk isn't the kind of game to add variety (I remember easily smashing power-armoured Marines with Genestealers and loosing a Captain and a Terminator with heavy weapon to a single hybrid with lasgun...).

**BobtheInquisitor**

Why do you need a main threat? That would dramatically limit the number of people the game would appeal to as well as the options for further story development. I thought that was the whole point of the setting, that the BSF could have anything lurking within it.

**Voss**

Dryaktylus wrote:
silverstu wrote:
I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..

Well, you need a main opponent, in this case the Chaos guys. The drones were a nice feature and an option to change the main threat as they're part of the fortress. The Ur-Ghuls... I don't know.

You don't need a fixed main opponent, though. You can sell an interesting variety of threats, and shuffle in a small sub-deck representing any 'main threat' and his/her/its henchmen.
Ur ghuls are perfect for a filler room that you explore while working your way to any particular game's climax.

Roll a d6, this sessions threat is:
1) Obsidian Mallet and his Chaos Marines
2) Looterious Rex, Orc warboss and his band of mechs stripping the place for parts.
3) Broodlord Bob and his babies, stowaway genestealers
4) Champion Knockoffia, Wych succubus and retinue, looking for exciting new slaves
5) Daemon Prince Infestio, and his small warp incursion
6) Arnolhd beBack, Necron lord and a stasis crypt of minions.

Put in 4-6 cards for them, and a dozen or so cards for 'typical BSF threats' and you've got a game.
Alternately, flip 1 'threat' card for every 2 'fortress' cards that the party wins against, if you want more structure (and a reasonable end point)

**Dryaktylus**

The thing is, BSF was created as a campaign, not a new generic dungeon crawler game like the first WHQ as a replacement of HeroQuest/Advanced HeroQuest. Of course, it could have been better, but well.

Would I like a generic dungeon crawler game for 40k with new rules, different opponents, new characters and ongoing support. Hell, yes. But it was obvious from the start that BSF was nothing like that.

**BaronIveagh**

Lord Damocles wrote:
On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.

Does not one remember BFG? They had a damn mini for them..

**Voss**

Dryaktylus wrote:
The thing is, BSF was created as a campaign, not a new generic dungeon crawler game like the first WHQ as a replacement of HeroQuest/Advanced HeroQuest. Of course, it could have been better, but well.

Would I like a generic dungeon crawler game for 40k with new rules, different opponents, new characters and ongoing support. Hell, yes. But it was obvious from the start that BSF was nothing like that.

I'm not clear how that was 'obvious' at any point, let alone from the start. The Ambull doesn't support that, nor do the random bits and bobs that are sort of but not really related to the the main set (the death guard and plague zombies, the actual cult which isn't renegade guardsmen?)

You fought through a series of random encounters, got an artifact at the end, and could go back to town at various points. Seems like a generic dungeon crawler to me.

**spiralingcadaver**

BaronIveagh wrote:
Lord Damocles wrote:
On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.

Does not one remember BFG? They had a damn mini for them..

Yeah, I think Damocles knows about these but is being really specific for some reason (? There may be something I'm missing, but the WHQ:BSF depiction seems to be, with some artistic liberty, not fundamentally different than a regular BSF other than how being active has developed some more lore.

**H.B.M.C.**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s a hefty old box of stuff, with a divider you’re not to remove until the game says to do so....

I had to though. Given that’s where the Sentinel’s bases were.

Didn't quite know what you meant by this, but having now just opened my copy, yeah, there's a whole other expansion rule booklet and sets of cards that are "hidden" inside the box for later use (and the mini bases!). Wasn't expecting that.

**spiralingcadaver**

How are the super drone rules in 40k?

**Voss**

spiralingcadaver wrote:
How are the super drone rules in 40k?

A little bit crazy. Profile and the main rule are here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/26/guardian-drones-in-warhammer-40000/

Not sure of points, but the whole gang (big and little drones in a blob) make for a pretty beefy supplement to shooting, and pretty effectively anti-everything except hordes (which the rest of whichever army they're attached to can surely solve)
At the very least they make for a decent 'distraction carnifex' role, where they can just keep blowing holes in things until they're dealt with.

**Tastyfish**

They've been on the community site, but not sure how well they'd work in regular games given the keyword issues - you're spending a lot of CP getting them as unaligned doesn't easily fit into a detachment. So Open Play really - or Kill Team perhaps, where they would be proper scary.

For that the big ones are:

With the basic drones being an Intercessor with LD10 and a 4+ save, with this gun.

**spiralingcadaver**

Yeah, I saw the partial rules, but points can be pretty influential. Also, I feel like it puts a giant bulls eye on those drones that are able to hit way above their class with the big drones' buffs.

**cuda1179**

I wouldn't mind seeing an actual army made up of the drones. If the big drones were Elite, and the small ones troops (not limited to one unit), then add in a "swarm" of smaller drones for Fast Attack and a larger HQ drone.

**Voss**

cuda1179 wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing an actual army made up of the drones. If the big drones were Elite, and the small ones troops (not limited to one unit), then add in a "swarm" of smaller drones for Fast Attack and a larger HQ drone.

This is how you get new Xenos armies like Necrons.

Do you want new xenos armies, heretic?

**shadowsfm**

exterminatus, lord?

**Mr_Rose**

shadowsfm wrote:
exterminatus, lord?

Yes, from close orbit; it’s the only way to be sure.

**deano2099**

From the reviews of those who actually played it, it does sound like the narrative (at least from the base set and two main expansions) is pretty coherent and makes sense - that's clearly what they were aiming for to tell a specific story (with a few side-stories like the Ambull) about a specific thing.

I like that, I don't need a system that caters for everything - I couldn't get into Shadows of Brimstone but that does that fairly well.

I'd rather get a new game with similar core mechanics, but tweaked to suit a new environment with new baddies. Rather than endless expansions for this. Especially as the core sets are almost always the best value for money.

**Lord Damocles**

BaronIveagh wrote:

Does not one remember BFG? They had a damn mini for them..

Give n that I directly referenced it just a couple of posts above yours, yes I probably remember it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

spiralingcadaver wrote:
Yeah, I think Damocles knows about these but is being really specific for some reason (? There may be something I'm missing, but the WHQ:BSF depiction seems to be, with some artistic liberty, not fundamentally different than a regular BSF other than how being active has developed some more lore.

But the depiction/description of the new Fortress isn't particularly in line with the Gothic Blackstone's! (Other than being black and maybe having arms).
Blackstone 7 appears to be significantly larger, has a different exterior surface, and isn't described as having the same primary armaments. We can't even say that they're the same overall shape.

People seem to have an assumption that Blackstone 7 must look the same as the previous six because they're all referred to as Blackstone Fortresses, but the actual text/image sources we have offer very little support for this.

Its not a minor point that a physical description of the setting for the game is conspicuous by its absence.
Especially when almost all characters involved in the setting should have relatively easy access to that information.