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JohnHwangDD wrote: The MCU isn't the Matvel Universe, and it hasn't shown anyone more powerful than Thanos,.so it's obvious that your comprehension and ability to understand context is far below your presumption of my knowledge of thing Marvel.
lol yes they have. They have a lot. Stan Lee is in every one of them doing something different every time.
Also, it has been stated that the MCU is in the Marvel Mutiverse. It is Earth-199999. Which means it is within the Marvel Universe and follows the same set standards as the others. I mean, they also show Celestials in the movies but I guess those do not count?
So I mean, you just keep writing that sounding as condescending as you can. DO NOT listen to those other people. It makes it funnier for me.
AduroT wrote: Yeah, it’s important to note that so far in the movies Phoenix hasn’t been PHEONIX, but rather regular Jean Grey getting cranky, which is still strong, but not like PHEONIX levels strong.
And to THAT end, the pheonix force couldnt do gak to galactus. Galactus is the sole survivor of the previous iteration of the universe who cannot be truely harmed by anything that is not the universe itself or the ultimate nulifier or his own power the power cosmic.
Likewise the inifity gems are actual fragments of a living entity that is the universe. The pheonix force is less than those gems. Anyone with the gauntlet could unmake the pheonix force if they desired. What impact that would have on reality is something else.
Nope! The Phoenix Force has actually fought against Infinity and Eternity toe to toe and not been defeated. Two beings more powerful than Galactus is.
Also, the Phoenix Force is a multiversal entity so it is not harmed by the infinity gauntlet of one universe. Same with The Beyonder.
Power Scales are so much fun. Everybody forgets who is a multiverse entity and who is not.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/12/24 03:13:28
Those things are called multiversal singularities. What that means is that they exist across all universes and while each universes time line and events may be different they are all actually the same entity.
For example, Cybertron and Unicron and the first 13 are all multiversal singularities that exist in all Transformers cannons. They don't SIMPLY exist in all of them though. The Unicron that shows up in each is the SAME unicron that exists in each. His consciousness is multiverse spanning.
But that doesn't stop Unicron from being defeated in each iteration.
(Another good example is the Dark Tower of the Gunslinger series by Steven King. The Tower exists in all worlds simultaneously though not always in the form of a tower. It's not a multitude of towers. It is a single tower that exists across all universes.)
Except that each Marvel Universe has it's own living embodiment of it's universe. They are not multiversal singularities. They are each a separate and distinct entity. Each fragments into 7 gems (thats right there are 7. The 6 that make up the gauntlet and a 7th that is it's consciousness). And all that exists within it's bounds are subject to it's laws and whims.
Infinity, eternity, and the living tribunal along with the one above all do not actually exist within ANY of the universes (and are thus not multiversal singularities). They are beyond them and only ever touch down into them temporarily as they do what they do. The Phoenix force is powerful, yes. But also subject to the reality it exists within. Because it DOES exist within. And as far as I can find/remember not a multiversal singularity. Each Phoenix force is the sum total of all life potential within a given universe. And it draws on that cumulative life potential for all it's great power. While exceedingly powerful because the sum total of all life potential is nigh infinite, it's still a entity bound to the potential of that one universe. (and also subject to the gems that comprise it's universe).
The beyonder... shock and awe... is not from the universe. He is from beyond it. Which is why he is not effected by the gems. The gems can ONLY effect the universe they comprise. But they have complete control over all that exists because of them.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/12/24 08:20:34
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: Those things are called multiversal singularities. What that means is that they exist across all universes and while each universes time line and events may be different they are all actually the same entity.
For example, Cybertron and Unicron and the first 13 are all multiversal singularities that exist in all Transformers cannons. They don't SIMPLY exist in all of them though. The Unicron that shows up in each is the SAME unicron that exists in each. His consciousness is multiverse spanning.
But that doesn't stop Unicron from being defeated in each iteration.
(Another good example is the Dark Tower of the Gunslinger series by Steven King. The Tower exists in all worlds simultaneously though not always in the form of a tower. It's not a multitude of towers. It is a single tower that exists across all universes.)
Except that each Marvel Universe has it's own living embodiment of it's universe. They are not multiversal singularities. They are each a separate and distinct entity. Each fragments into 7 gems (thats right there are 7. The 6 that make up the gauntlet and a 7th that is it's consciousness). And all that exists within it's bounds are subject to it's laws and whims.
Infinity, eternity, and the living tribunal along with the one above all do not actually exist within ANY of the universes (and are thus not multiversal singularities). They are beyond them and only ever touch down into them temporarily as they do what they do. The Phoenix force is powerful, yes. But also subject to the reality it exists within. Because it DOES exist within. And as far as I can find/remember not a multiversal singularity. Each Phoenix force is the sum total of all life potential within a given universe. And it draws on that cumulative life potential for all it's great power. While exceedingly powerful because the sum total of all life potential is nigh infinite, it's still a entity bound to the potential of that one universe. (and also subject to the gems that comprise it's universe).
The beyonder... shock and awe... is not from the universe. He is from beyond it. Which is why he is not effected by the gems. The gems can ONLY effect the universe they comprise. But they have complete control over all that exists because of them.
Well, at least you got The Beyonder right, kinda. The Beyonder is from beyond in the same way that he IS the beyond. Only a portion of The Beyonder's power was trapped in our Universe. But since he exists within the Universe, he should be subject to the powers of the Infinity Stones according to this. Buuuuut, eeeeehhhhhhhh......
As far as the Abstracts and the Living Tribunal. They very much exist WITHIN the multiverse they are associated with. Note the Living Tribunal is murdered and both Galactus and Phoenix both physically fight them. There is also the whole thing that there are actually Multiversal Abstracts like Eternity, but we also have one of our own.
As far as the Phoenix Force, it's power is shown to fluctuate with the one currently using it, not the potential of life in the universe. That may be where it draws power, but the one wielding it is far more important.
The infinity gems power scale stops just above Odin and the Skyfathers and just below Galactus and the Phoenix Force. They are powerful and important but they do not beat abstracts like Life/Rebirth or Hunger/Entropy. Definitely do not come close to the top. It was noted that the Abstracts and up could have stopped Thanos at any time in the comics, but they didn't care. It was not an issue to them.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Dreadwinter wrote: Ah right. Lets not discuss the movie or the universe.
Back to how this is a FEMINIST PROPOGANDA MACHINE!
My apologies. Continue.
You joke, but the "one of that kind of feminist" person in my life regaled me today with their interpretation of the trailer and the story it obviously(apparently) implies - the Kree are the Patriarchy, who repress and enslave Danvers with brainwashing(just like all women who don't share her own exact opinions), and her regaining her memories and becoming Captain Marvel is an allegory for women throwing off the shackles of male oppression and discovering their true power within. There was more, but I was too busy focusing on preventing my eyes from glazing over as I did the smile & nod routine to hear it.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Sometimes I like to imagine that some things just are what they are at face value. If Carol Danvers was instead James Denvers, and exactly the same thing happened to him as what makes Carol into Captain Marvel....does that still make the Kree the patriarchy keeping, well, a guy....down? What is it called if he finds his true memories, thus throwing off the shackles of oppression?
I'd personally prefer to approach this movie imagining that Captain Marvel could be either gender and it would be 90% the same, barring some traditionally female-specific situations just for spice.
It would be like saying Shuri being a female in BP was a feminist agenda, when it's just fun to watch a plucky little sister talk to her brother like he's a meathead.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
Hate to be “that guy” considering I’m one of the people that frequently blurs the line of what is acceptable, but less of the feminist stuff please, that’s politics and we’re not supposed to do that here anymore.
Formosa wrote: Hate to be “that guy” considering I’m one of the people that frequently blurs the line of what is acceptable, but less of the feminist stuff please, that’s politics and we’re not supposed to do that here anymore.
I think you're being pretty optimistic if you don't think this thread will be eventually locked like virtually every other thread that even tangentially touches on stuff like this.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Formosa wrote: Hate to be “that guy” considering I’m one of the people that frequently blurs the line of what is acceptable, but less of the feminist stuff please, that’s politics and we’re not supposed to do that here anymore.
I think you're being pretty optimistic if you don't think this thread will be eventually locked like virtually every other thread that even tangentially touches on stuff like this.
Im trying mate, normally I would jump in with both feet but it would be nice to discuss the movie, I was actually enjoying the discussion between the nerd off above, somehow the one above all had skipped me and ive been reading marvel comics for 20 years ???
I was kinda enjoying the comic nerd-off there a bit...
I'm late, but I thought a "Phoenix" and "Dark Phoenix" were different entities (er...different manifestations?), in that Jean Grey was in control of her powers - whereas, THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS sentient, the base urges, was the Dark Phoenix overcoming Grey's consciousness. Did I goober that up?
I'm really digging the vibe of Captain Marvel and I don't really get this "feminist" flavoring others are sensing. This is definitely Marvel's "hey, we have a WW-like chick over here too" flick...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/26 17:39:12
whembly wrote: I was kinda enjoying the comic nerd-off there a bit...
I'm late, but I thought a "Phoenix" and "Dark Phoenix" were different entities (er...different manifestations?), in that Jean Grey was in control of her powers - whereas, THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS sentient, the base urges, was the Dark Phoenix overcoming Grey's consciousness. Did I goober that up?
I'm really digging the vibe of Captain Marvel and I don't really get this "feminist" flavoring others are sensing. This is definitely Marvel's "hey, we have a WW-like chick over here too" flick...
I think that's really the thing, Marvel's realizing they dropped the ball by not having one already going. Now they are in a bit of "tryhard" mode. Can't blame them, but it's already starting the gak storm.
Just Tony wrote: I think that's really the thing, Marvel's realizing they dropped the ball by not having one already going. Now they are in a bit of "tryhard" mode. Can't blame them, but it's already starting the gak storm.
People had been demanding a Black Widow movie ever since Natasha appeared in IM2, and never got it. Being Cap's support in TWS was small consolation. Then DC did a good job with WW, and that kinda changed things up. Doing halfsies as Ant-Man and the Wasp doesn't come close.
It's a really big failing on Marvel's part, given their otherwise good push to add diversity to the otherwise CIS white male led films like IM, Hulk, Thor, Guardians, Ant-Man & Dr. Strange.. Oh, wait, everything except Black Panther.
So yeah, they're obviously behind and need to catch up. While they're good at making a movie that just happens to have a superhero, that superhero can just happen to be someone who isn't a CIS white male.
I think in large part its due to the roster in comics. Its almost all cis white men. And unlike dc marvel went into this with a plan. The widow movie never really fit for pushing the infinity war narrative forward. Coupled with the fact that it wasnt until half way through phase 2/end of phase 2 that kevin fiege got disney to get ike pearlmutter out of the movie side of it. Ike being notoriously horrible about black and female characters.
I think phase 4 will see some major diversity now that this initial story plan is done and they are free of ikes garbage.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Genoside07 wrote: At the end of the day I just want this to be a good movie, with a good story.. No political messages shoe horned in..
Also I have collected comics for years .. Captain Marvel for me will always be Monica Rambeau..
It's a film coming out in 2019 by the studio that brought us Black Panther. I'll very surprised if something isn't shoehorned in. IMO, BP had some very groan worthy moments
Spoiler:
All things colonizers and the kids in Oakland at the end talking about jacking rims off BP's ship...really?
but it didn't detract from the overall film to the point where it was unwatchable or even bad.
The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy
Genoside07 wrote: At the end of the day I just want this to be a good movie, with a good story.. No political messages shoe horned in..
Also I have collected comics for years .. Captain Marvel for me will always be Monica Rambeau..
It's a film coming out in 2019 by the studio that brought us Black Panther. I'll very surprised if something isn't shoehorned in. IMO, BP had some very groan worthy moments
Spoiler:
All things colonizers and the kids in Oakland at the end talking about jacking rims off BP's ship...really?
but it didn't detract from the overall film to the point where it was unwatchable or even bad.
Spoiler:
To be fair, "colonisers" was only used, to my recollection, by Shuri as a joke, and by Killmonger, who's philosophy the film seems pretty firmly against. It's not like they were actually advocating the whole "all white folk are baddies" thing.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
And it makes perfect sense for a reclusive nation whos vast majority of their population never leave their hyper protected boarders on a continent with Africas history to feel like the rest of the world is pretty fethed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/27 12:54:12
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Lance845 wrote: I dunno. Too much smiling. Her acting was all wooden or something. / sarcasm
Yeah, all those dumbasses criticizing something based on the available information, when everyone knows the only sensible response to marketing is blind hype - I mean, the blind hype was somewhat vindicated this time, weeks later, so that must mean it always is right? Heh heh, goteem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/08 16:13:27
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Available information is not accurate. There is now over 10 years of history that can be factored into it along with the really good casts previous career. We have seen initial Marvel trailers look one way and subsequent look another and the final film have a vibe all it's own.
It is a dumbass thing to look at the first drama heavy trailer and say something like "Why isn't she smiling?"
You (the royal you) are not looking at all the available information.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/08 17:20:58
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
One shouldn't go overboard with trailer analysis, for sure. But trailers are created to elicit reactions, so it's fair to share them.
Personally, I'm still underwhelmed, just because so far it feels like most Marvel solo intro films. "Hard-bitten bad-a** warrior crashes on Earth and rediscovers her humanity" seems like only a slightly reformulated Stark/Strange/etc. "self-centered jerk has crisis and discovers the meaning of heroism" story. *shrug*
To get me in the theater for a Marvel film these days, it's gotta be something different, or something big. This doesn't feel like either, no matter how much they try to tell us that it IS something different and big. Just saying it doesn't make it so.
Im fine with peoples thoughts and feelings about the trailer. I just think its bizarre to have critiques about the number of smiles in a movie at least partially about a war.
Nobody asks why tony wasnt smiling in the im3 trailer or cap in civil war. Your opinions are good to hear Gorgon. But those kinds of opinions are nonsense.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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