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 Frazzled wrote:
Again, not seeing where you are getting all that. But that's cool.
Edit: refers to Formosa's post.

Sorry Frazzled if i havent explained it properly, what specifically are you not understanding or have I not explained correctly, as I covered a lot of ground in that post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
thats not sarcasm btw

Dr Strange and Iron Man did feel like beat-for-beat the same movie to me. - I haven't actually watched Dr Strange again since.

I wouldn't say Thor felt quite the same way though. I mean, sure there's Hero's Journey elements, because there's always Hero's Journey elements. But I think Thor at least felt differently due it being more about his journey to be a Leader, rather than a Hero.

Sure, your standard Spider-man Origin story, like Maguire's and Amazing, that fits into the same mould (Ben = Yinsen = Ancient One) very neatly, but the MCU Spider-man Homecoming dispensed with that, probably because of those reasons.


As for Captain Marvel, I dunno. It feels like they're doing enough different with it with the memory wipe sort of angle that I don't see it falling into that sort of pattern too neatly.

I suppose I could design a test, loosely based on The Heroes Journey:

1) Carol Danvers is a snarky, smartmouthed, wisecracking arrogant and selfish jerk.

2) Carol Danvers is deprived of her support network, by being imprisoned in an unfamiliar territory.. Note: Prison may not be literal.

3) Carol Danvers meets a mentor who teaches her to look beyond her selfish and petty goals to see the bigger picture.

4) The Mentor is killed.

5) Spurred on by The Mentor's death, Carol Danvers resolves to become a hero, escaping her prison.

6) Carol Danvers discovers that a Senior Authority Figure betrayed her.

7) She defeats her Senior Authority Figure, making peace with her past and future.

----------------------------

Seems about right?

TLJ certainly hurt Solo and the larger Lucasfilm release plans. There’s no point denying it anymore. Let’s learn from it. I think we’ll see the reverse in operation here, with anticipation for Endgame helping Cpt M — esp since it is widely sepculated that Cpt M will play an important role in Endgame. The issue remains, however, that Cpt M may be causing strife in a fandom that has heretofore been all rainbows and sunshine. The real issue is, having fired James Gunn, the Guardians subfranchise is on rocky territory and Cpt M will have to pick up theat slack as the MCU’s pathway to cosmic storytelling. Depending on how Cpt M is received (and the current version of character has not been a winner in comic sales), I would not be surprised to hear tell of a Nova movie on the not-too-distant horizon.

See, I think there is no point in continuing to think the small group who gets pissy about this stuff have as much power or sway as they seem to think.

PROVE that TLJ had more impact on Solo then the release time between 2 other monster releases, the lack of promotion, the poor production reports, and general audiences just not giving a gak about a prequel where we find out how han got his gun and ship?

You can't. And you never will.

PROVE that Cpt Marvel is causing strife that will impact their bottom line? Again, this group who gets upset because females are vocal about saying they are proud to be in female lead movies about powerful female characters is minute. Loud, but minute. And most people who go see Marvel movies are not watching the net for their venom. They are simply watching for the release date.

You guys are a drop in the bucket and the vast majority never hear a word you say.

 Formosa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Again, not seeing where you are getting all that. But that's cool.
Edit: refers to Formosa's post.

Sorry Frazzled if i havent explained it properly, what specifically are you not understanding or have I not explained correctly, as I covered a lot of ground in that post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
thats not sarcasm btw

Pardon, I am not getting where all the SJW conflict is coming from.

 Manchu wrote:
The real issue is, having fired James Gunn, the Guardians subfranchise is on rocky territory

Yeah, I'm not supporting Guardians 3, either.

When Marvel takes the politics out of their movies, I'll be OK with that.

I'm sorry.

Did you think Disney was injecting politics into their movies when they fired a director over a twitter history that included this?

NSFW


I think James Gunn is an adult who as a professional should have kept his social media clean or understood that it could be used against him professionally. If my gak was full of that garbage with my actual name on it I would expect companies to react to it also. He could have purged his twitter history at any point. He didn't. He got pegged for it. Thats not politics. It's just basic work place ethics.

I agree with lance on this, its a lack of professionalism, but does also show double standards unfortunately, not from lance, but from disney and marvel, I can show plenty of tweets from artists, writers etc. that are very very racist or even call for violence against certain demographics, but because they are are advocating for a certain ideology Twitter, the mob and disney give them a pass.

Consistency is needed, either its not ok to be unprofessional and leave such tweets, or it is and all who commit such acts should be allowed to say as they please.


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 Frazzled wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Again, not seeing where you are getting all that. But that's cool.
Edit: refers to Formosa's post.

Sorry Frazzled if i havent explained it properly, what specifically are you not understanding or have I not explained correctly, as I covered a lot of ground in that post.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
thats not sarcasm btw

Pardon, I am not getting where all the SJW conflict is coming from.

Currently its coming from sponsored articles and the main websites, brie larson herself and activist journalists, I can PM you links so you can see for yourself if you would like, for example a youtuber called starwarsgirl made a video about how she prefers the marketing for Alita than captain marvel due to the heavy over tones of feminism in captain marvels, she received threats (like online threats actually matter) from the very people advocating for her inclusion and rights.... its bonkers.

this is why i maintain that companies, movies etc. should stay away from the whole culture war thing, its a cesspit that will ultimately lose them money on way or the other, a no win situation.

Agree Formosa. Consistency would be great. I think it's because the media stirred up his twitter history that Disney felt the need to respond with the only response anyone could (read: should) expect. And in THAT regard Disney IS consistent. When these kinds of things have ever been placed on Disney's table publicly they have always had the same response. Break ties and disavow. "These do not reflect our values". Disney can be kind of gaks in that way.

They probably would have left all well enough alone if a spot light wasn't flashed onto it.

But again, there would have been nothing to put a spot light on if he was smart enough to keep things with his name on it clean.

 Lance845 wrote:
Agree Formosa. Consistency would be great. I think it's because the media stirred up his twitter history that Disney felt the need to respond with the only response anyone could (read: should) expect. And in THAT regard Disney IS consistent. When these kinds of things have ever been placed on Disney's table publicly they have always had the same response. Break ties and disavow. "These do not reflect our values". Disney can be kind of gaks in that way.

They probably would have left all well enough alone if a spot light wasn't flashed onto it.

But again, there would have been nothing to put a spot light on if he was smart enough to keep things with his name on it clean.

Disney is not consistent though, but likely for a couple of reasons, either they dont know and havent seen these artists, writers etc. or they are complicit, either way such things are against Twitters terms and conditions and they should be suspended for such comments or banned, but that is a completely different subject can of worms

Anyway, apart from all that, I will be waiting a few weeks after release of the movie for the real reviews to come out, from the actual audience, if the reviews are good then I will go and see the film based on that, never ever will i trust the "professional" reviewers.

Imma see it soon as it comes out. I want to see de-aged Nick Fury!

Gunn used Twitter, among other resources, to create a professional reputation as an edgy dude, which in turn helped get him the job at Marvel Studio. And then he made the company a ton of money and ushered in a new phase of revitalized interest in the MCU. So then they fired him because I guess “the small group that gets pissy about this stuff” isn’t as small as some posters apparently think. That’s fething disgusting and I don’t even like Gunn’s views on stuff other than what a Guardians movie should be like. And it’s also why this Cpt M now has to bear a burden it was never designed for, structurally. So let’s see how this all continues to get spinned. Best case scenario, the personality-free character in the trailers somehow is just a weird mistake of marketing and we actuallyget totally charmed by this character whose book has been cancelled so many times.

 Lance845 wrote:
I'm sorry.

Did you think Disney was injecting politics into their movies when they fired a director over a twitter history that included this?

NSFW

Spoiler:

I think James Gunn is an adult who as a professional should have kept his social media clean or understood that it could be used against him professionally. If my gak was full of that garbage with my actual name on it I would expect companies to react to it also. He could have purged his twitter history at any point. He didn't. He got pegged for it. Thats not politics. It's just basic work place ethics.

This is why I never use Twitter. Is it good for anything besides accidentally ruining your career, getting people PO'd, or setting a hateball rolling?

I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

As a Star Wars junkie...TLJ IS the reason I didn’t see Solo in theaters. I started watching it on Netflix. It was so boring that I made it about halfway through, and haven’t finished it. It’s dull. Really, really dull. So I guess the only good thing about TLJ was that it prevented me from wasting a further $40 at the theater on Solo (2 tickets and snacks).

I actually like Carol’s backstory...especially the X-men portions where she helps shape Rogue, and when the X-Men are depowered in Genosha, Rogue is sexually traumatized (more humiliation, no rape), completely shuts down, and Carol takes over and goes on a breakout spree with Wolverine, as they both work to take down Genosha without any powers.

Idk if I’ve seen Carol hit the power level they’re planning in this movie, but I can believe it happened after Rogue drained her and left her in a coma back in the 80s. And I’ve actually avoided listening to Brie smacktalk online...but I’m looking forward to a kickass space version of Wonder Woman!

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

I have concerns any time a company or figurehead of a franchise calls out a specific race or gender and tells them they don't matter/ this wasn't made for you/ we don't need your kind.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

I have concerns any time a company or figurehead of a franchise calls out a specific race or gender and tells them they don't matter/ this wasn't made for you/ we don't need your kind.

I have concerns anytime people twist a comment about encouraging more women and minorities into being one about hating white men.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Imma see it soon as it comes out. I want to see de-aged Nick Fury!

Yeah, I also want to see more Agent Colson in movies!

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

 LunarSol wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

I can totally understand that.

I’m coming round to the idea though, that if we don’t challenge the toxic manbabies then geek forums will turn into their echo chambers. We all end up looking bad when the wider public comes to associate geek fandom with these kinds of people.

 LunarSol wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

The feeling is almost certainly mutual.

"These kinds of people." Christ just listen to yourselves. You're acting like you're doing some kind of public service by trolling folk on a forum for the heinous crime of not liking the fact a bunch of talking heads are trying to turn matters of simple taste and opinion into some ridiculous litmus test for supposed deep-seated bigotries, or for preferring their escapist entertainment to allow them to actually, you know, escape from the endless garbage of real life for a couple of hours.

Get a haud of yourselves eh.

 Lance845 wrote:
Agree Formosa. Consistency would be great. I think it's because the media stirred up his twitter history that Disney felt the need to respond with the only response anyone could (read: should) expect. And in THAT regard Disney IS consistent. When these kinds of things have ever been placed on Disney's table publicly they have always had the same response. Break ties and disavow. "These do not reflect our values". Disney can be kind of gaks in that way.

They probably would have left all well enough alone if a spot light wasn't flashed onto it.

But again, there would have been nothing to put a spot light on if he was smart enough to keep things with his name on it clean.

It probably didn't help that it came on the heels of the Harvey Weinstein controversy, when there was heightened focus on the whole "this guy makes us tons of money, so we ignore the unsavory things he does" side of things. Honestly I don't think there's a lack of consistency on Disney's part. They did what all media companies do in that situation: fire the "problem" so they don't have to deal with it and hope it quietly goes away. It didn't go away this time, probably because enough people saw the irony in hiring a man for his wit to make you a couple million dollars and then firing the man for that same wit when the social perceptions turn negative. Except I'd propose social perception hadn't turned that much. You can find similar lines in a lot of stand up comic routines, but no one finds those offensive in a 40 minute spiel of off-color jokes (Justin Roiland pointed out that you find similar jokes once or twice an episode on Rick and Morty and no one complains) and enough people found the raunchy humor inoffensive enough (or maybe they just hate seeing Mike Cernovich get petty revenge) that a lot of people viewed Gunn's firing as knee jerk reactionism.

 Yodhrin wrote:
"These kinds of people." Christ just listen to yourselves. You're acting like you're doing some kind of public service by trolling folk on a forum for the heinous crime of not liking the fact a bunch of talking heads are trying to turn matters of simple taste and opinion into some ridiculous litmus test for supposed deep-seated bigotries, or for preferring their escapist entertainment to allow them to actually, you know, escape from the endless garbage of real life for a couple of hours.

Yodhrin, you are absolutely on point lately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
a lot of people viewed Gunn's firing as knee jerk reactionism.

Which is all it was. And it indicates that Disney’s vaunted MCU brand might be significantly more brittle from their POV than ours.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

The feeling is almost certainly mutual.

"These kinds of people." Christ just listen to yourselves. You're acting like you're doing some kind of public service by trolling folk on a forum for the heinous crime of not liking the fact a bunch of talking heads are trying to turn matters of simple taste and opinion into some ridiculous litmus test for supposed deep-seated bigotries, or for preferring their escapist entertainment to allow them to actually, you know, escape from the endless garbage of real life for a couple of hours.

Get a haud of yourselves eh.

Show me one example of real trolling and not people just expressing their displeasure at being preached to by a known bigot, how about we take her statement and change a couple of words.

“[Audiences] are not allowed enough chances to read public discourse on these films by the people that the films were made for. I do not need a 40-year-old black chick to tell me what didn’t work for her about ‘[A] Wrinkle in Time.’ It wasn’t made for [/u]her. I want to know what it meant to white men, to biracial [u]men, to teenage white boys, to teens that are white.”

she is being a hypocrite, and thats fine, thats her choice and personal opinion here but I am not a fan of sexism or racism regardless of source.

then you get this great statement

"It was, like, my superpower. This could be my form of activism: doing a film that can play all over the world and be in more places than I can be physically."

So here we have a person who is known to take part in a very unpopular and fringe politics, pushing said politics and outwardly stating it, and on the other side of the coin we have the vast majority of people who are just tired of it all and want it out of our [/u]escapism[u], but no, we should be forced to watch it, we dont get a say and we should shut up because "we are white men, and she doesnt care about our opinions"

As I said before, they made it about this, not the public, so normal people reacting to it is to be expected, I am sure we would both agree on this at least, leave the political grandstanding out of movies unless its internally consistent with the movie.

Formosa, Yodhrin is saying people who post here just to say “glad I avoid this place” are trolling — not the people posting here, ya know, actually on-topic about there being some red flags about this film.

 Manchu wrote:
Formosa, Yodhrin is saying people who post here just to say “glad I avoid this place” are trolling — not the people posting here, ya know, actually on-topic about there being some red flags about this film.

thanks manchu, I totally misunderstood that then and i apologise.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I tried to read this thread, but seeing manbabies crying about SJW’s makes my eyes bleed.

Anyhoo, I’m really looking forward to Captain Marvel.

Welcome to the Geek Media forum. I generally feel better about the world when I avoid it.

I can totally understand that.

I’m coming round to the idea though, that if we don’t challenge the toxic manbabies then geek forums will turn into their echo chambers. We all end up looking bad when the wider public comes to associate geek fandom with these kinds of people.

Are you sure you're reading *this* forum and coming to that opinion, and maybe not getting some other place confused with this one?

Because it seems like you are doing that?

 Manchu wrote:
Which is all it was. And it indicates that Disney’s vaunted MCU brand might be significantly more brittle from their POV than ours.

I don't think they put that kind of thought into it.

They don't care about the politics, they just want to sell their product. Ignoring the controversy simply invites accusation about why they're ignoring it. Defending keeping him forces them to actually take a position with political connotations. As a matter of point, firing Gunn was the most apolitical thing Disney could do because they can just say "we don't want to be involved this isn't what we do it's not us" and pray the problem away which is the same thing ESPN does after firing the 100th sports caster to drop the N-bomb somewhere. But it strikes me as one of those "big decisions" you instantly regret but feel you can't ever afford to take back because of the lost face if you did. If the bottom line is all that matters, firing Gunn for any reason makes zero sense. You only do it because you anticipate negative reaction down the road for keeping him around that could impact the bottom line. But especially in the aftermath when it became really obvious really fast almost no one gave a damn about some raunchy jokes from a decade ago, I feel like some Disney execs were just kind of kicking themselves because they employed the nuclear option to avoid controversy when they didn't have to.

Bright side. Maybe he can pull Suicide Squad out of that dumpster fire

I’d say that we’re leaving the era of knee jerk reactions. A lot of public figures and companies are beginning to remember that the public has a short attention span. Just wait a few news cycles. Disney acted hysterically in firing Gunn. It was a really terrible mistake.

No doubt it was a colossal mistake. Apparently the actual call was made by a third stringer looking to show initiative while the guys in charge were unavailable, but its still easily one of the biggest missteps in the MCU.