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I will believe this movie is in trouble when I see a $70 M opening weekend. I really cannot believe anyone who says this movie will bomb. Whether it will create trohble for the larger MCU is, IMO, a separate question.

I'm with you on that Manchu, I don't see this film failing either, it's one thing to dislike brie Larson and the character and another to expect a marvel film to fail, whilst I'm also not a fan of the marketing of this film, that doesn't mean when I eventually see it I will dislike it, it could be a good film, so far I don't think marvel has put out a real stinker, ant Man was meh but still better than most other films in the genre.





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I must say though IF it fails, it will be down to the marketing, the "last Jedi" effect could kick in and make people avoid it, the devil will be skating to work before that effects end game though.

 Lance845 wrote:
34000 people havent seen the movie yet. Its not out. Only some press screening have happened. I very much doubt 34000 seats of press screanings exist.

Yeah no shizz. The only thing that has really proved is that the barrier to entry for the perpetually butthurt to leave a fake "review" is pretty low. No way 99% of these people have seen anything other than a trailer.

What is probably going on here is the studio is posting all of these fake reviews so when the movie bombs, they can claim it's because of an orchestrated campaign of internet trolling.



Also, the tomatometer is at zero since there aren't any critic reviews yet. I don't know if the pre-reviews get factored in after release or not. I guess there is no way of determining that until the movie actually comes out and seeing if it has approx 40k fan reviews in the first hour.

Actually the movie is on a review embargo until the 4th.

https://screenrant.com/captain-marvel-review-embargo-date-late-why/

Yeah, I get that. I mean, after RT starts actually posting reviews, I don't know if the "Want to see" numbers get rolled over into user reviews. Probably do since the latest Train Your Dragon movie has about 50k reviews and the oldest are for a month before the movie released.

It's almost as if a score rating if people want to see the film is a good indicator of people who want to see the film.

Whodathunkit?

Anyone reporting this as "review bombing" doesn't understand how Rotten Tomatoes (or even reviews in general) function. Episode 9, a movie that hasn't even got a frickin' title yet, is also getting "review bombed" by "trolls" apparently. No, it's just a whole lot of people saying that they don't want to go and see it. That's how that particular rating system is working. This is not a bug folks, it's a feature operating as intended.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/02/26/rotten-tomatoes-revamps-site-following-captain-marvel-review-bomb/

If you visit review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes this evening, you’ll notice some big changes. Following the ongoing “review bombing” trend that started on the site with a group of users attempt to “ruin” such box office record breaking films as Star Wars: The Last Jedi and Black Panther, RT has decided to remove certain functions in an effort to preserve the purpose of the site.

In an editorial posted to RT’s homepage, it was revealed that the “interested in” functionality has been removed for films, as well as a the comments section, prior to a film’s release.

Starting this week, Rotten Tomatoes will launch the first of several phases of updates that will refresh and modernize our Audience Rating System. We’re doing it to more accurately and authentically represent the voice of fans, while protecting our data and public forums from bad actors.

We are disabling the comment function prior to a movie’s release date. Unfortunately, we have seen an uptick in non-constructive input, sometimes bordering on trolling, which we believe is a disservice to our general readership. We have decided that turning off this feature for now is the best course of action. Don’t worry though, fans will still get to have their say: Once a movie is released, audiences can leave a user rating and comments as they always have.
There was also the reveal that a cleaner look to the scoring will be implemented in the coming days:

Last but not least, you will notice we are making some layout changes to the site. Through our research department we have learned that our users would prefer a cleaner, less cluttered, presentation of the Tomatometer and Audience Score. Don’t worry, the information and data are still there (promise!).

Well I'd definitely agree that Rotten Tomatoes website is pretty damn cluttered. I hope they don't go the full minimalist route though.

Well, the reviews did bottom out at 26% before this event. I'm wondering how politically motivated this was on the part of RT?

 LunarSol wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
34000 people havent seen the movie yet. Its not out. Only some press screening have happened. I very much doubt 34000 seats of press screanings exist.

The ranking is “want to see it” which.... okay? Honestly that’s a thing I learned exists today.

It was introduced because people who hadn't seen movies yet were using RT ratings to try and sabotage them to make a point, they thought that might draw them off. They're now getting rid of the "want to see" score too though, because it's confusing people - as above - and now the comments and audience rating won't go live until a movie is released.

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/making-some-changes/

Captain Marvel has been the target of a concerted trolling effort to such an extent that it may be what prompted the changes.


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's almost as if a score rating if people want to see the film is a good indicator of people who want to see the film.

Whodathunkit?

Anyone reporting this as "review bombing" doesn't understand how Rotten Tomatoes (or even reviews in general) function. Episode 9, a movie that hasn't even got a frickin' title yet, is also getting "review bombed" by "trolls" apparently. No, it's just a whole lot of people saying that they don't want to go and see it. That's how that particular rating system is working. This is not a bug folks, it's a feature operating as intended.

If Black Panther, which went absolutely gangbusters at the box office, could get a poor want-to-see score then no, it's doing the opposite of what it's supposed to represent.

Cmon, we're none of us brand new, there's no mystery. Every one of us would be able to predict which movie would have its score tank from space regardless of how well it was likely to actually perform.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Well, the reviews did bottom out at 26% before this event. I'm wondering how politically motivated this was on the part of RT?

I'd bet none. Metacritic and RT both suffer from routine "bombing" whether it be positive or negative. The habit actively hurts the basis on which they market themselves (that they can presumably present fair ratings for entertainment). They were bound to respond sooner or later. I'm actually surprised it took this long. I actually find iTune's reviews more useful these days if only because any iTune's review that goes up actually got reviewed first. People with nonsensical/obviously trolling submissions don't make it onto the board (though that isn't to say the ones that do are all useful).

Captain Marvel. Third highest draw for ticket pre-sales....

DenofGeek wrote:Captain Marvel has already overtaken Aquaman, Deadpool and Wonder Woman in terms of ticket presales in the US, with the film currently being the third-biggest MCU preseller to date, just behind Avengers: Infinity War and Black Panther. Lots and lots of people Want To See it.

So 34000 people expressing their displeasure at the marketing of the film are "troll" thats the stupidest thing I have heard onthe internet for a long time, lets not assign any blame to the words of brie larson, lets not assign any blame to the movie needlessly getting involved in politics when the movie is clearly not about politics, nope, lets blame the general public and fans.

Does anyone remember when Wonder Woman had this problem? or Tomb Raider? Prometheus? Alita? Hunger Games?

Know what all those films have in common? Female leads and they didnt piss off the fans, they didnt attack the fans and they didnt harp on about how progressive they were, well apart from hunger games towards the end.

So now because of the bad behaviour of several movies activist marketing antagonising people, we have lost yet another avenue to express our displeasure of using such tactics.... I wonder if Rotten Tomatoes realises how much this will damage their integrity ... well what little they had left anyway.

I'd just let it go.

You're literally saying 'how dare Brie Larson have and express an opinion'.

Disagree with her? That's fine and dandy.

Getting your knickers in a twist based on her opinion? Not so much.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd just let it go.

You're literally saying 'how dare Brie Larson have and express an opinion'.

Disagree with her? That's fine and dandy.

Getting your knickers in a twist based on her opinion? Not so much.

No she can express whatever she likes, thats totally fine, what is not fine is that others are not allowed to express their opinion against it, one is being pushed, the other is being shut down.

Then as a separate but connected issue, this series has stayed out of all this nonsense until Black Panther, they saw it worked for Black Panther and now they are doing the same for Captain Marvel, so the Inevitable backlash has happened and they are milking it, this is why I said right before the marketing even kicked off properly, they need to keep a tight hold of this, dont antagonise people, had they done so we would likely not be having this conversation, they are the root course of it, not the general public, not the fans, the Marvel Marketing team and Brie Larson, I keep saying it but they should never have got involved with all the nonsense, dont pick sides, stay out of it.

I honestly fail to see how anyone can find an issue with me saying this, can we all not agree it would have been better for them to stay out of stupidity of the "culture war"

This series?

Or Brie 'not actually a representative of Marvel, just an actress in one of their films' Larson?

You're really blowing it out of all proportion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This series?

Or Brie 'not actually a representative of Marvel, just an actress in one of their films' Larson?

You're really blowing it out of all proportion.

You read all of that and this is all you focussed on...... yes, this series, the marvel cinematic universe, they have stayed out of the nonsense so far, until Black Panther.

And yes she is representing them, when she pushes her ideology on their platform, she is representing them, now if Marvel came out and said "Brie larsons views are not representative of Marvels views blah blah blah" that would be a totally different thing.

As for blowing it out of proportion, this is how it always starts, this is how it started in games, anime, TT gaming, Magic etc. etc. and each time its split the community right down the middle for the worse, regardless of which side you fall down on, it doesnt matter, what matters is these former communities have been made worse for the introduction of the "culture war"

I am sure that at least Doc we can agree on.

 Formosa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This series?

Or Brie 'not actually a representative of Marvel, just an actress in one of their films' Larson?

You're really blowing it out of all proportion.

You read all of that and this is all you focussed on...... yes, this series, the marvel cinematic universe, they have stayed out of the nonsense so far, until Black Panther.

And yes she is representing them, when she pushes her ideology on their platform, she is representing them, now if Marvel came out and said "Brie larsons views are not representative of Marvels views blah blah blah" that would be a totally different thing.

As for blowing it out of proportion, this is how it always starts, this is how it started in games, anime, TT gaming, Magic etc. etc. and each time its split the community right down the middle for the worse, regardless of which side you fall down on, it doesnt matter, what matters is these former communities have been made worse for the introduction of the "culture war"

I am sure that at least Doc we can agree on.

You should calm your...jets. your posts are really over the top about a movie that is not out and jeez it's just a comic book movie.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This series?

Or Brie 'not actually a representative of Marvel, just an actress in one of their films' Larson?

You're really blowing it out of all proportion.

You read all of that and this is all you focussed on...... yes, this series, the marvel cinematic universe, they have stayed out of the nonsense so far, until Black Panther.

And yes she is representing them, when she pushes her ideology on their platform, she is representing them, now if Marvel came out and said "Brie larsons views are not representative of Marvels views blah blah blah" that would be a totally different thing.

As for blowing it out of proportion, this is how it always starts, this is how it started in games, anime, TT gaming, Magic etc. etc. and each time its split the community right down the middle for the worse, regardless of which side you fall down on, it doesnt matter, what matters is these former communities have been made worse for the introduction of the "culture war"

I am sure that at least Doc we can agree on.

You should calm your...jets. your posts are really over the top about a movie that is not out and jeez it's just a comic book movie.

How so Frazzled, I think I have been quite fair, calm and collected so far, I am just raising issues as I have seen them, if you dont agree thats fair enough.

Also its not just a comic movie dude, its a comic book movie that is a multi billion dollar industry and part of the cultural zeitgeist, it has impact both financially and culturally, these films have import for millions of people.

“It’s only a comicbook movie” applies both ways. Yes, some people are getting really steamed about this one. But a lot of people are awfully defensive about it, too.

 Formosa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd just let it go.

You're literally saying 'how dare Brie Larson have and express an opinion'.

Disagree with her? That's fine and dandy.

Getting your knickers in a twist based on her opinion? Not so much.

No she can express whatever she likes, thats totally fine, what is not fine is that others are not allowed to express their opinion against it, one is being pushed, the other is being shut down.

Then as a separate but connected issue, this series has stayed out of all this nonsense until Black Panther, they saw it worked for Black Panther and now they are doing the same for Captain Marvel, so the Inevitable backlash has happened and they are milking it, this is why I said right before the marketing even kicked off properly, they need to keep a tight hold of this, dont antagonise people, had they done so we would likely not be having this conversation, they are the root course of it, not the general public, not the fans, the Marvel Marketing team and Brie Larson, I keep saying it but they should never have got involved with all the nonsense, dont pick sides, stay out of it.

I honestly fail to see how anyone can find an issue with me saying this, can we all not agree it would have been better for them to stay out of stupidity of the "culture war"

You are allowed to express your opinion. And then others are allowed to express theirs back at you in turn.

It's not a "Culture War" for black actors to be proud to be in a majority black super hero movie where the color of their skin isn't a gimmick (something that did not happen before Black Panther). And it's not a "Culture War" for Brie Larson to address sexists by saying if you have a problem with a female lead film then I don't care what you have to say this movie isn't for you.

Here is me expressing my opinion to you. You assign gak to what is happening that is a skewed version of reality and you are not the only one who does it. You look for blows in a "culture war" that isn't happening. Marvel is just making good movies and diversifying their line up as they go. Good.

Blade was not a racial gimmick.

Dude, none of these movies are political landmarks. I know the kool aid is delicious but be careful about drinking so much of it.

 Manchu wrote:
Blade was not a racial gimmick.

Dude, none of these movies are political landmarks. I know the kool aid is delicious but be careful about drinking so much of it.

Blade was not a majority black cast. I think blade was the only black guy in that movie. Maybe in the entire franchise.

 Formosa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
This series?

Or Brie 'not actually a representative of Marvel, just an actress in one of their films' Larson?

You're really blowing it out of all proportion.

You read all of that and this is all you focussed on...... yes, this series, the marvel cinematic universe, they have stayed out of the nonsense so far, until Black Panther.

And yes she is representing them, when she pushes her ideology on their platform, she is representing them, now if Marvel came out and said "Brie larsons views are not representative of Marvels views blah blah blah" that would be a totally different thing.

As for blowing it out of proportion, this is how it always starts, this is how it started in games, anime, TT gaming, Magic etc. etc. and each time its split the community right down the middle for the worse, regardless of which side you fall down on, it doesnt matter, what matters is these former communities have been made worse for the introduction of the "culture war"

I am sure that at least Doc we can agree on.

You should calm your...jets. your posts are really over the top about a movie that is not out and jeez it's just a comic book movie.

How so Frazzled, I think I have been quite fair, calm and collected so far, I am just raising issues as I have seen them, if you dont agree thats fair enough.

Also its not just a comic movie dude, its a comic book movie that is a multi billion dollar industry and part of the cultural zeitgeist, it has impact both financially and culturally, these films have import for millions of people.

I am trying to say this nicely so please take it like that. It seems you are emotional ly involved due to posts statements from Brie that don't appear bad actually. Movie is not out. Marketing on most places is generic marvel. I don't get the objections.


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 Manchu wrote:
“It’s only a comicbook movie” applies both ways. Yes, some people are getting really steamed about this one. But a lot of people are awfully defensive about it, too.

True. I am trying to say this is not a cry Freedom type movie, but a tentpole, and I don't see the marketing that us driving the rage.

And this is from someone not seeing the movie.

Were it just for those reasons I would agree with you Lance, however it's been shown many many times that you are either with us, or you lose your job or worse.

I call it "the culture war" as most everyone here knows what that is, and to some extent they also understand it, if you can give me another apt term I will happily use it instead.

As for explaining why is absolutely is part of the "culture war" I would have to full on talk about politics, and that is not allowed here so we can talk about that via PM if you wish.

And no I am not assigning Gak that is a skewed version of reality, denying the existence of these issues would be a skewed version of reality. And yes marvel is continuing to make good movies with the same diverse cast they have always had, pretending that captain marvel is the first female super hero lead they have had is a lie, electra, pretending that black panther is the first black superhero lead is a lie, Blade, I get why they are doing it and objectively from a marketing standpoint it's a great move, morally it does not sit well with me using peoples race or gender to push a product just to make money.

You can, as you say, disagree I have no problem with that at all, disagree away, it forces me to challenge my own thoughts and possibly change them based on new information, less of that "skewed reality" nonsense though eh, I could just as easily have thrown that back at you and then we would get nowhere.

 Formosa wrote:
Were it just for those reasons I would agree with you Lance, however it's been shown many many times that you are either with us, or you lose your job or worse.

I call it "the culture war" as most everyone here knows what that is, and to some extent they also understand it, if you can give me another apt term I will happily use it instead.

As for explaining why is absolutely is part of the "culture war" I would have to full on talk about politics, and that is not allowed here so we can talk about that via PM if you wish.

And no I am not assigning Gak that is a skewed version of reality, denying the existence of these issues would be a skewed version of reality. And yes marvel is continuing to make good movies with the same diverse cast they have always had, pretending that captain marvel is the first female super hero lead they have had is a lie, electra, pretending that black panther is the first black superhero lead is a lie, Blade, I get why they are doing it and objectively from a marketing standpoint it's a great move, morally it does not sit well with me using peoples race or gender to push a product just to make money.

You can, as you say, disagree I have no problem with that at all, disagree away, it forces me to challenge my own thoughts and possibly change them based on new information, less of that "skewed reality" nonsense though eh, I could just as easily have thrown that back at you and then we would get nowhere.

PM away if you want. I am happy to talk to anyone about anything.

My baseline argument is that what I said is how Marvel throws it out there. There ARE bigots and idiots on the other side who ARE invested in a culture war. And they bring that to their table. That is not Marvel or the actors fault. They are just making a movie. Being pissed at Marvel for making a majority black film or Brie Larson for telling bigots their opinions don't matter isn't getting involved. It's just normal gak that normal people should be doing.

I really don’t think this is a culture war.

This is more about Marvel trying to make up for DC finally beating the MCU at something. This is about Marvel having no WW equivalent character after all these decades. This is about an actress without much in the way of grace or charm or wit trying to build a career on political commentary. And this is about Marvel Studios trying to reconfigure some plans in the wake of firing Gunn.

A lot of this is grating and even irritating. But our culture is not what’s on the line. Just our patience.

 Manchu wrote:
Blade was not a racial gimmick.

Dude, none of these movies are political landmarks. I know the kool aid is delicious but be careful about drinking so much of it.

I mean, we can't pretend it's coincidence there haven't been female or black headliners in 20 odd MCU movies until now. If you belong to either of those categories, it would naturally feel pretty big.

If you don't, and don't have so much of a stake, it's not clear why they're worth getting so worked up about.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Were it just for those reasons I would agree with you Lance, however it's been shown many many times that you are either with us, or you lose your job or worse.

I call it "the culture war" as most everyone here knows what that is, and to some extent they also understand it, if you can give me another apt term I will happily use it instead.

As for explaining why is absolutely is part of the "culture war" I would have to full on talk about politics, and that is not allowed here so we can talk about that via PM if you wish.

And no I am not assigning Gak that is a skewed version of reality, denying the existence of these issues would be a skewed version of reality. And yes marvel is continuing to make good movies with the same diverse cast they have always had, pretending that captain marvel is the first female super hero lead they have had is a lie, electra, pretending that black panther is the first black superhero lead is a lie, Blade, I get why they are doing it and objectively from a marketing standpoint it's a great move, morally it does not sit well with me using peoples race or gender to push a product just to make money.

You can, as you say, disagree I have no problem with that at all, disagree away, it forces me to challenge my own thoughts and possibly change them based on new information, less of that "skewed reality" nonsense though eh, I could just as easily have thrown that back at you and then we would get nowhere.

PM away if you want. I am happy to talk to anyone about anything.

My baseline argument is that what I said is how Marvel throws it out there. There ARE bigots and idiots on the other side who ARE invested in a culture war. And they bring that to their table. That is not Marvel or the actors fault. They are just making a movie. Being pissed at Marvel for making a majority black film or Brie Larson for telling bigots their opinions don't matter isn't getting involved. It's just normal gak that normal people should be doing.

Sweet we agree on something, yep there are bigots on both sides causing trouble for everyone else, one of the issues is like you say, being pissed off for making a majority black film or a female lead is pure stupidity of the highest order, thing is the people with genuine complaints get thrown into that category too or labeled trolls or sometimes much much worse.

Now marvel decided to push this film from a feminist angle, it's right there in the trailer, then we get brie larsons comments, bam, they are now involved, was it intentional, well we don't know, from larsons perspective I would say yes as she is a self confessed activist who stated directly that she is using this film for activism, as for marvel marketing, I would say yes and no, yes because the same marketing worked so well for black panther and no because I don't think they expected it to have such a backlash this time, can we assign blame to them, absolutely, they should have known what they were doing, especially Larson who is infamous for these kinds of things.

But what does this have to do with the movie itself, well, a lot and a little, it has and will affect ticket sales, members of the general public and these "trolls" who don't like the marketing, or her comments will not go and see it, but that's a hundred thousand people at most I think, the movie will be successful as I have said many many times now, I also don't think this will affect end games sales either, that movie is too much of a juggernaut to be affected currently.

But people will remember this, they will remember marvel calling them trolls, they will remember the insults for the "activist" journalists, so marvel needs to be a bit wary about this kind of marketing in the future, star wars is too big to fail, and it's now failing badly, I don't want to see marvel go the same way when it's so easily avoided.


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 Manchu wrote:
I really don’t think this is a culture war.

This is more about Marvel trying to make up for DC finally beating the MCU at something. This is about Marvel having no WW equivalent character after all these decades. This is about an actress without much in the way of grace or charm or wit trying to build a career on political commentary. And this is about Marvel Studios trying to reconfigure some plans in the wake of firing Gunn.

A lot of this is grating and even irritating. But our culture is not what’s on the line. Just our patience.

That is a very good point and I will think on it.

Maybe if you don't want to get lumped in with the trolls, you should be more vocal in decrying them and not let them hijack your "arguments".

And really? "Activist" journalists? What next, you gonna start shouting about fake news?