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 nels1031 wrote:
I just want this movie to hurry up and come out so we can talk about cool action scenes, Ben Mendelsohn killing it like he does in every role, cameo's from the late Stan Lee(Maybe?) and other heroes of the MCU, mid credits scenes and post credit scenes and what it means for the future of the MCU. Like a normal superhero flick, I guess.

I’m with you on that. Looking forward to the expansion of the Cosmic side of Marvel.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I still don’t know what the problem is with this movie. It just comes across as, “feminism is evil cos ..” well, why exactly I don’t know. They never really explain that bit.

Ok it breaks down like this, and this is a gross oversimplification, currently some believe that there is a certain political class of people that are trying to push their ideology through media and other outlets, they are annoyed at being called names constantly and being painted as "trolls" "alt right" "ismphobes" etc and are pushing back against what they perceive as the encroachment into the MCU by this specific set of people and ideologies.

Now believe it or dont, it doesnt matter, what matters is they believe it and it motivates their actions, adding fuel to this fire are the statements of Brie larson and the bias of the activist journalists (#notall like it needs to be said constantly), so you have two groups at odds with each other, the click bait journalists throwing petrol on the fire to make money and suddenly you end up where we are now, RT censoring itself, these are all just symptoms of a greater issue within american culture and by extention, british culture, this is just the current thing they are fighting over.

Then there is another group of people, these are the people caught up in the middle of both of these parties, but they still get labeled in the same way, so some of thees people get annoyed and boycot the film.

Now merely pointing all this out makes you evil and "one of them", people deny its even happening for some odd reason and to the general public who dont take part in internet culture, it might as well not be happening, and they are the vast majority of the viewing audience, they are the reason why this film will likely do well.

Its all very wierd to me but I am old.....

Why people can;t watch the trailer and decide if they want to see it or not I don't know - why do they need to be told what to like.

I have plenty of issues with so called Professional Reviewers but people reviewing a film before they have seen it is mad.

Not yet excited by the trailer but its a Marvel movie so I am hoping its going to be at worst ok....

But here’s the thing Formosa, it doesn’t matter.

The vast majority of people are either unaware or just care about this. Its just a very vocal minority of people.

... and honestly, I still fail to understand what Brie Larson has said that’s so wrong, despite several people trying to convince me of her monstrous evil

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
But here’s the thing Formosa, it doesn’t matter.

The vast majority of people are either unaware or just care about this. Its just a very vocal minority of people.

... and honestly, I still fail to understand what Brie Larson has said that’s so wrong, despite several people trying to convince me of her monstrous evil

Well that depends really, personally I find that using racism and sexism to fight racism and sexism is wrong, others are of the mind that its ok as long as the result is a possitive one, its an argument older than any of us and will outlast all of us.

I also find it distasteful to use people race and gender to promote a film, its weird to me, I know its happened in the past, spike lee for example was notorious for it, but it seems to have gotten worse in the last few years.

As to why it matters, if you support a particular ideology and see its opposite pushed everywhere and yours is demonised and misrepresented everywhere, well... it will annoy you, it will cause these twitter bubbles to start affecting real life (which it has many many times) in negative ways, and before we know it people are hurt or worse, because we said it didnt matter over and over again while these crazy people took more and more.

And yes its a tiny minority of people, who have a massive amount of power, disproportionately so, so here i am in the middle (literally sometimes) having one side scream at the other and both hate me, its lose lose for me, as shown on this very forum just pointing out these problems somehow makes me in with the alt right... insanity.


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 Mr Morden wrote:
Its all very wierd to me but I am old.....

Why people can;t watch the trailer and decide if they want to see it or not I don't know - why do they need to be told what to like.

I have plenty of issues with so called Professional Reviewers but people reviewing a film before they have seen it is mad.

Not yet excited by the trailer but its a Marvel movie so I am hoping its going to be at worst ok....

This is pretty much spot on mate, I only found out about all this insanity last year some time possibly 2017, but since I changed jobs and have had more time to watch the news, read news etc. its become very clear there is an underlying problem that is being fought over, these idiots have ruined so much over the last few years with the fighting.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
anyway im gonna take a break, i have gone waaaaaaaaay off topic, if anyone want to talk about this more please PM me, I will only talk about the comics, characters etc. from here on

As to why it matters, if you support a particular ideology and see its opposite pushed everywhere and yours is demonised and misrepresented everywhere, well... it will annoy you

A commendable sympathy for Ms Larson, but she seems to be taking it in her stride, to be fair.

I think our society need to do a better job in separating artist's personal belief/poltics from the actual products we consume.

I freaking looooved Audioslave and Pink Floyd... who are outright pinko commies ( ).

But we're more than just our politics.

For one, I'm stoked about Captain Marvel and I hope this is the harbinger of the more cosmic side of Marvel. And, it'd be truly sad that others would try to spike this, like what they did with the last all chick Ghostbuster flick. (which was no where near as bad as the critic panned).

 Formosa wrote:
using racism and sexism to fight racism and sexism is wrong...

Well, we’re just going to have to disagree on this one. I mean, I fail to see how anyone involved in this movie has been either sexist or racist.

Rabble rabble damn women telling me how to feel means movie bad!!!!

 nels1031 wrote:
I just want this movie to hurry up and come out so we can talk about cool action scenes, Ben Mendelsohn killing it like he does in every role, cameo's from the late Stan Lee(Maybe?) and other heroes of the MCU, mid credits scenes and post credit scenes and what it means for the future of the MCU. Like a normal superhero flick, I guess.

Yeah, I think Stan got his cameos done for Captain Marvel and Endgame - and then that's it!

As to the quotes of “this movie might not be for...”, I think Yoda said it best: “our own council, we will keep, on whether this movie is for us”.

I’m looking forward to an action packed, sci fi galactic war. If the lead actress is being gakky....well, Robert Downey Jr was an asshat, and look how THAT turned out; he’s the face of the MCU. Just give me a fun movie and I’ll form my own opinion. After all, it’s not like it’s source material that had a giant dump taken on it that everyone, including my own grandmother, knows about; like Spider-Man: Homecoming.

The thing with the MCU?

It’s like a reputable, mid market Restaurant. Good food done to a decent, reliable level. Nothing too flashy, and no poncey menu in French where you don’t really know what you’re ordering.

Sure, on occasion your Steak will come out of the kitchen a bit more medium than your preferred medium rare. But it’s never, ever come out incinerated.

Compare to other Franchises. X-Men? Well, it could the medium rare goodness of X-Men 2, or Days of Future Past. Then again, there’s a higher chance it’ll be the Well Done Steak that was the first two Wolverine films, or the ‘what the hell have you done, this is not a Steak, this is a hockey puck you cretins’ of X-Men 3.

Or worse, the DCU method of ‘NO YOU MUST HAVE IT ALL WELL DONE BECAUSE I, ZAK SNYDER, HAVE DECIDED WELL DONE IS GRITTY, WITH A SIDE ORDER OF GRATUITOUS UPSKIRT’

Consistency. That’s what really counts. That’s what gets bums in seats every single time. With consistency, comes consumer confidence. Not just for Sad Old Grognards like me, but for families. And given a family pays way more than I do (tickets, grub, merchandise for mewling brats)l that’s probably far more important. With a MCU film, you can go in confident there’s enough action, and frequently enough, to keep tweens and teens entertained, but without worry it might be too Fighty for younger kids.

To paraphrase a certain Tony Stark?

That’s the way Marvel does it. That’s the way Disney does it. And it’s worked out pretty well so far.

It’s all the more remarkable that, 20 movies in (soon to be 21 in a matter of days), not one has disappointed at the Box Office. 21 movies. Twenty. One. That’s staggering. That’s record breaking. That is frankly utterly bloody amazing,

So they very occasionally upset people with nothing better to do than get upset at stuff. Makes no difference.

So they’ve never produced a true Oscar contender outside of the design aspect. And?

They all make money. Each and every one. All other attempts to replicate and reproduce that method have bombed. Utterly.

DCEU? Turgid. Dull. Too invested in being edgy and emo to bother with a coherent plot and consistent character behaviour.

Universal Monsters? Yeah. Let’s kick it off with Tom Cruise portraying a total, self centred butt monkey. Oh noes! OUR FRANCHISE!!! (On this one, they could’ve so easily incorporated the Brendan Fraser Mummy Movies. Treat them as retrospective prequels if they must).

Only Marvel has cracked it. And Marvel pioneered it.

And even as a True Believer, there were moments I was waiting for it all to go horribly Pete Tong and Mammaries Up. First time was GotG. Too leftfield I thought. Too obscure. Got to see a press screening, and just absolutely loved it. Dr Strange? Much the same. Not really my favourite of the bunch. But they handled it well (though I still maintain Bendyditch Custardsplatch is horribly miscast in the role. What even is his accent. Revenge for You Know Who’s turn in Mary Poppins?), and it raked it in,

Face it. Marvel is a cinematic juggernaut because they just keep on getting it right. It’s not Disney buying off critics. It’s not a misinformation campaign. It’s not some shadowy cabal of feminists doing, I dunno, shadowy feminist cabalistic stuff. They’re just Making damned fun movies. End of.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Universal Monsters? Yeah. Let’s kick it off with Tom Cruise portraying a total, self centred butt monkey. Oh noes! OUR FRANCHISE!!! (On this one, they could’ve so easily incorporated the Brendan Fraser Mummy Movies. Treat them as retrospective prequels if they must).

Technically, they were hoping Dracula Untold would kick this off, but it didn't land. Similarly, DC wanted to do it "right" starting with Green Lantern, then tried again with Man of Steel and decided they were too far behind and had to make due.

I think the Marvel formula is one that's very easy to get wrong when attempting to reverse engineer. For the most part, the films AREN'T really connected or in any way dependent on each other. They're totally self contained stories with almost all the world building being handled by the post credit scenes. The exception here is one of the movies that really doesn't work all that well and when you compare all the attempts to replicate the formula, the Marvel movie they really feel closest to IS Iron Man 2.

In the rest of my Nerdery, the closest approximation to the MCU is actually Discworld.

50 odd books, set on the same planet (Discworld, natch). There are characters that are revisited, and get real development throughout. But, crucially, the casual reader can buy any Discworld novel, and enjoy an entirely self contained story. And a bloody good one at that.

Yes, you do get the most out of them by reading them en masse, and in release order (easy enough, given each copy has a chronological list contained within). But it’s not essential. For me, Nightwatch is the pinnacle of the Nightwatch sub-series. But one doesn’t need to read Guards Guards! or Men at Arms et al to make sense of it. But I’m willing to bet you’ll want to read them all the same.

Pratchett and Marvel. Two colossi bestriding their respective genres. And oddly, both kind of irking their relevant snobs.

I think Sir Terry put it best. Stories of imagination tend to upset those without one.

I love Sir Terry Pratchett. Does it show?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The thing with the MCU?

Consistency. That’s what really counts. That’s what gets bums in seats every single time. With consistency, comes consumer confidence. Not just for Sad Old Grognards like me, but for families. And given a family pays way more than I do (tickets, grub, merchandise for mewling brats)l that’s probably far more important. With a MCU film, you can go in confident there’s enough action, and frequently enough, to keep tweens and teens entertained, but without worry it might be too Fighty for younger kids.

And I feel like this plays right into the changes in theater-going habits.

There isn't much reason to go to a movie theater to see a romcom anymore. Those work just fine on your oversized TV at home, where you can even snuggle up better with your SO. If you're going to see a film in the theater, you probably want to see something big and flashy...but nothing too risky, because who wants to be out $50 ($100ish if you're bringing kids) for something you didn't even like?

Marvel movies hit this spot perfectly...they're big and flashy enough, and tend to do exactly what they say on the can. Their brand identity is unrivaled. Like you said, with a Marvel film you know you're going to get plenty of action, some drama but nothing too heavy, lots of yuks, and nothing too kid-unfriendly or too long.

IMO, there are a good number of Marvel films that are instantly forgettable, and I even put some fan faves like GotG in that category. But they're enjoyable enough for those two hours, and audiences walk out feeling like they had a good experience for their dough. Boom.

In many ways, Marvel has managed to take control of the "water cool talk" void as TV shows have become increasingly disconnected from a unifying schedule. When a show hits, there's often no discussion for a month or so while everyone works through it at their own pace. With Marvel movies, people schedule time to watch it day one because they expect to be talking about it on Monday.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
well, Robert Downey Jr was an asshat, and look how THAT turned out; he’s the face of the MCU.

Yeah, you really never know. I thought Captain America was a pretty lame comic book character and at the time, Chris Evans was pretty meh, but both wound up pretty amazing.

Maybe I'm late to the news, but apparently Rotten Tomatoes has shut down some parts of its websites in response to misogynistic trolling and review bombing aimed at this movie.

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/movies/captain-marvel-was-attacked-online-trolls-rotten-tomatoes-took-action-n976201

IDK. I'm curious how it'll turn out. I know next to nothing about some aspects of the Marvel universe, and Captain Marvel is one of them. To me, Captain Marvel is the kid who shouts Shazam to change in and out of being a demigod.

I'm sure I'll end up seeing Captain Marvel relatively shortly after it comes out, but from the trailer, it looked very Superman-ey in terms of archetype, which doesn't interest me much.

Beyond that, I know basically nothing about the flick, backstory, comics, etc for this one, so we'll see how it turns out

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe if you don't want to get lumped in with the trolls, you should be more vocal in decrying them and not let them hijack your "arguments".

Their "arguments" have never been my arguments. When I don't like a movie it's because I don't like it, usually because of weak writing or acting. Their argument is that they don't like the movie SPECIFICALLY because it features a minority they dislike - be it women, blacks, asians, or whatever - even if the writing and acting are actually quite good.

But when you try and twist my argument INTO their argument, that's when we'll have a problem, because you are deliberately trying to pick a fight with me at that point.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe if you don't want to get lumped in with the trolls, you should be more vocal in decrying them and not let them hijack your "arguments".

Their "arguments" have never been my arguments. When I don't like a movie it's because I don't like it, usually because of weak writing or acting. Their argument is that they don't like the movie SPECIFICALLY because it features a minority they dislike - be it women, blacks, asians, or whatever - even if the writing and acting are actually quite good.

But when you try and twist my argument INTO their argument, that's when we'll have a problem, because you are deliberately trying to pick a fight with me at that point.

Then make the argument that you disliked it because of weak writing or acting. Use your words, elaborate upon your position. Make a point to engage with people in a manner that is constructive rather than "NO UR WRONG" or short quips and memes.

This isn't hard to avoid being lumped in.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe if you don't want to get lumped in with the trolls, you should be more vocal in decrying them and not let them hijack your "arguments".

Their "arguments" have never been my arguments. When I don't like a movie it's because I don't like it, usually because of weak writing or acting. Their argument is that they don't like the movie SPECIFICALLY because it features a minority they dislike - be it women, blacks, asians, or whatever - even if the writing and acting are actually quite good.

But when you try and twist my argument INTO their argument, that's when we'll have a problem, because you are deliberately trying to pick a fight with me at that point.

Then make the argument that you disliked it because of weak writing or acting. Use your words, elaborate upon your position. Make a point to engage with people in a manner that is constructive rather than "NO UR WRONG" or short quips and memes.

This isn't hard to avoid being lumped in.

And yet when we had this discussion about the other big Disney franchise and why I didn't like it the inevitable response was to talk about racist, sexist pigs and trolls and that since I didn't like it I must be one.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe if you don't want to get lumped in with the trolls, you should be more vocal in decrying them and not let them hijack your "arguments".

Their "arguments" have never been my arguments. When I don't like a movie it's because I don't like it, usually because of weak writing or acting. Their argument is that they don't like the movie SPECIFICALLY because it features a minority they dislike - be it women, blacks, asians, or whatever - even if the writing and acting are actually quite good.

But when you try and twist my argument INTO their argument, that's when we'll have a problem, because you are deliberately trying to pick a fight with me at that point.

Then make the argument that you disliked it because of weak writing or acting. Use your words, elaborate upon your position. Make a point to engage with people in a manner that is constructive rather than "NO UR WRONG" or short quips and memes.

This isn't hard to avoid being lumped in.

And yet when we had this discussion about the other big Disney franchise and why I didn't like it the inevitable response was to talk about racist, sexist pigs and trolls and that since I didn't like it I must be one.

And nobody i have seen has called you a bigot for disliking a movie. Wether you lumped yourself in with bigots because of media or whatever is something i honestly cant remember.

I feel better about my mild defensiveness over liking Anthem after reading the past five or so posts.

It's okay to have unpopular opinions dude, as long as you ain't using them to hurt people or justify hurting people.

 Alpharius wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
I just want this movie to hurry up and come out so we can talk about cool action scenes, Ben Mendelsohn killing it like he does in every role, cameo's from the late Stan Lee(Maybe?) and other heroes of the MCU, mid credits scenes and post credit scenes and what it means for the future of the MCU. Like a normal superhero flick, I guess.

Yeah, I think Stan got his cameos done for Captain Marvel and Endgame - and then that's it!

You don’t think they’ll CGI him in, or cut his image from various other video and splice that into new content?

I’m conflicted because its kinda weird (like Peter Cushing in Rogue One), but I’d be ok if Stan Lee’s estate authorized it. It’d almost be like a timeless memorial or something.

Honestly the tech has been around long enough for Stan to have potentially authorized it himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if he did honestly.

The reason the Cushings thing didn't really look right is you need someone whos face has the same points of geometry that move in the right kinds of ways.

It's "easy" to de-age Michael Douglas because Michael Douglas is wearing the dots and his smile or scowl is his smile or scowl. But who do you get to play Stan Lee? Whose face will move in the same ways so it doesn't look rubbery and weird?

21 Marvel movies. The only other franchise I can think of that's similar is Bond with 25 (plus Never Say never Again which doesn't count), and to my mind that's much more variable. I mean, I'm not really bothered about Thor: The Dark World, but it's still better than some of the grottier Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan outings. And that's over eleven years, not 53.

 Ouze wrote:
Review bombing in specific seems to be counterproductive. It has been happening on Steam for a while now, and the usual effect is a boost in visibility and then sales for the game being bombed. It's really a Streisand effect, ultimately.

Except no review bombing took place.

But don't listen to me.

Listen to an actual journalist (and a left-wing one to boot! ):




And the worst part about all of this nonsense? None of it will be in the film. It'll just be another Marvel Origin Story™, good or bad (and most Marvel films are good, there haven't been any bombs) and all of this crap will blow over.

Any chance of an abstract, for those of us who can't watch the video? Who's lying, and what lies are "they" telling?