Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I agree. No original trilogy characters, ever, please. Ahsoka and the like are ok, because they are lower tier.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I agree. No original trilogy characters, ever, please. Ahsoka and the like are ok, because they are lower tier.

You need to use "ghost tech" to make a replica of oung Mark Mamil's face and voice to have him in the show. Luke is like 30 during the Mandalorian which I think is like 5 years after Endor. It sort of would make sense to have Luke since he is, as far as we know, the only other living Jedi beside Ahsoka, but they will settle on only the later for reason of logic. I wonder if Ahsoka and Luke ever met or if Bo-Katan and her will face their death within the Mandalorian story line.

PS: Technically, there was Bobba Fett.

 gorgon wrote:
It struck me when Bo-Katan referred to Din as a 'Child of the Watch'. Because in many ways he's still acting as an obedient child and not an independent adult. But parenthood can certainly change that. Human beings often have a lot of our identity tied up in being someone's child UNTIL they become someone's parent. Although Din is a grown man biologically, I feel like the story arc is about him growing up emotionally/mentally/etc.

“Child of the Watch” has a triple meaning.

For us, the audience, the meaning is what you perceptively explained.

In terms of the setting, the phrase refers to the practice of adopting foundlings into the culture.

And as a matter of characterizing Bo-Katan, she uses the phrase to trivialize and undermine Din as part of her attempt to groom him. It’s a subtle dig that she very closely follows with praise. She’s trying to manipulate him. She’s ruthless and untrustworthy.

Din gets tricked all the time in this show. He is a guy who somehow expects scum to deal fairly. But seeing her take her helmet off made a really bad impression on him.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
Delivering The Child to the Jedi ... would be they way to leave it with more responsible 'parents'

The Jedi? More responsible parents? Yikes, you must be new to SW. The Jedi are uniformly scummy dead beats.

 privateer4hire wrote:

A dice roll that could have easily gone double or nothing to also win Shmi. She would then have never gotten captured by raiders and Annie could have avoided that whole murder spree.

Watto flatly refused to include both slaves in the wager.

Ork-en Man wrote:

Based on Watto's reaction, he was not expecting that result at all. He went into that wager expecting to win. I think he was using loaded dice.

Yes, the novelisation points that out, although it was fairly obvious in the movie anyway.

epronovost wrote:
You need to use "ghost tech" to make a replica of oung Mark Mamil's face and voice to have him in the show. Luke is like 30 during the Mandalorian which I think is like 5 years after Endor.

The answer is Sebastian Stan...

Ha!

I immediately thought of this pic when I saw this last page.

Dude is already under the Disney umbrella, make it happen Disney!

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Graphite wrote:
When does any problem in Star Wars get solved by anything except the business end of a blaster/light saber? This ain't Trek.

There was that time our heroes decided the fate of two slaves by heroically cheating at dice?

Or when they tried to sell robots into slavery to save their real friends?
Yeah, the mark (Jabba) said no, and yes they expected it (or at least Luke did). But that whole infiltration Xanadu gambit could have easily ended with several dead or enslaved friends and an enslaved sister. Good times.

Or that time Luke surrendered and for some reason expected Darth Dad to believe he wandered onto Endor on his lonesome and not search for the friends he 'endangered.'

Or setting up a fake god to get primitives to fight and die for their mission. Classic!

Voss wrote:
Xanadu gambit

?

 Manchu wrote:

Voss wrote:
Xanadu gambit

?

Eh. I'm blaming that on autocorrect or being tired. Xanatos Gambit, obviously. Though creepily, a Xanadu gambit would probably also end with slave Leia in a bikini

The whole infiltration of Jabba's base is basically set up as a string of unlikely ploys that are guaranteed to fail so they can win: Luke gifts the droids in advance, Leia sets Han free but gets captured so Han can be placed with Chewie and Luke can kill the Rancor so that Jabba is enraged by everybody and decides to kill them all by taking them out to the Sarlaac pit where R2 will be in position to get the lightsaber to Luke (because obviously he'll be serving drinks on the barge rather than maintaining spaceships or something like an R2 unit) so they automatically win 'just as planned.' Every choice of Jabba's leads to the Luke being out in open air getting a lightsaber launched at him.

Its sad and cheap storywriting that it works, but from a character point of view the whole thing is extremely arrogant and immoral.

It also basically works because its all on the Evil Overlord list as things not to do. Had Jabba just had them shot or dismembered them in the throne room and stuck their heads on spikes outside the gates, it'd be much more reasonable.

I'd quite enjoy an appearance of Kyle Katarn when the plot takes a turn at destroying the dark troopers. A slight cameo of smuggler Mara Jade would be great as well, pre her meeting skywalker.

I want Luke, Han, and Chewie in an episode. No interaction with Mando or anyone in the story. Just sitting together in the background of some crowd/bar scene chatting. Don’t make any effort to draw attention to them.

 AduroT wrote:
I want Luke, Han, and Chewie in an episode. No interaction with Mando or anyone in the story. Just sitting together in the background of some crowd/bar scene chatting. Don’t make any effort to draw attention to them.

I would absolutely love that.

Like the Millennium Falcon in the prequels.

Voss wrote:

Or setting up a fake god to get primitives to fight and die for their mission. Classic!

Whilst you do raise some good points, that wasn’t their plan, so much as using Threepios mistaken identity to get them free, allowing them to continue their mission to take down DS2’s planetary shield.

It’s also arguable that Han’s team even knew the Ewoks would join them. I’d point to Han’s somewhat stunned look when the fur balls encircle the Imperial troops as near cast iron evidence.

The question there is did Threepio persuade the Ewoks to intervene? That I’d say is very open to debate. It could be he did, working his Godly ticket. Or, it could be the Ewoks made that determination on their own, and Threepio simply followed their lead. But I’m confident that Han and his team weren’t in on it.

 insaniak wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

A dice roll that could have easily gone double or nothing to also win Shmi. She would then have never gotten captured by raiders and Annie could have avoided that whole murder spree.

Watto flatly refused to include both slaves in the wager.

I will never understand why Padme didn't go back and just buy Anakin's mum later. It makes absolutely no sense. Even if the Jedi were doing their whole "cut off all attachments" thing, she could have given her a job on Naboo.

Unfortunately Star Wars is riddled with glaring plot holes. I love it, but this is inescapable.

 Manchu wrote:

Voss wrote:
Xanadu gambit

?

Lol, no idea. A short mental flash of the xmen character singing the early 80s song is all I got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Voss wrote:
Xanadu gambit

?

Eh. I'm blaming that on autocorrect or being tired. Xanatos Gambit, obviously. Though creepily, a Xanadu gambit would probably also end with slave Leia in a bikini

Spoiler:

The whole infiltration of Jabba's base is basically set up as a string of unlikely ploys that are guaranteed to fail so they can win: Luke gifts the droids in advance, Leia sets Han free but gets captured so Han can be placed with Chewie and Luke can kill the Rancor so that Jabba is enraged by everybody and decides to kill them all by taking them out to the Sarlaac pit where R2 will be in position to get the lightsaber to Luke (because obviously he'll be serving drinks on the barge rather than maintaining spaceships or something like an R2 unit) so they automatically win 'just as planned.' Every choice of Jabba's leads to the Luke being out in open air getting a lightsaber launched at him.

Its sad and cheap storywriting that it works, but from a character point of view the whole thing is extremely arrogant and immoral.

It also basically works because its all on the Evil Overlord list as things not to do. Had Jabba just had them shot or dismembered them in the throne room and stuck their heads on spikes outside the gates, it'd be much more reasonable.

I'm still not familiar with it but I like my crossover idea better. The House of Mouse owns all and pays none!!

Voss wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Voss wrote:
Xanadu gambit

?

Eh. I'm blaming that on autocorrect or being tired. Xanatos Gambit, obviously. Though creepily, a Xanadu gambit would probably also end with slave Leia in a bikini.

And doing roller disco? Kewl.

Voss wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Voss wrote:
Xanadu gambit

?

Eh. I'm blaming that on autocorrect or being tired. Xanatos Gambit, obviously. Though creepily, a Xanadu gambit would probably also end with slave Leia in a bikini

The whole infiltration of Jabba's base is basically set up as a string of unlikely ploys that are guaranteed to fail so they can win: Luke gifts the droids in advance, Leia sets Han free but gets captured so Han can be placed with Chewie and Luke can kill the Rancor so that Jabba is enraged by everybody and decides to kill them all by taking them out to the Sarlaac pit where R2 will be in position to get the lightsaber to Luke (because obviously he'll be serving drinks on the barge rather than maintaining spaceships or something like an R2 unit) so they automatically win 'just as planned.' Every choice of Jabba's leads to the Luke being out in open air getting a lightsaber launched at him.

Its sad and cheap storywriting that it works, but from a character point of view the whole thing is extremely arrogant and immoral.

It also basically works because its all on the Evil Overlord list as things not to do. Had Jabba just had them shot or dismembered them in the throne room and stuck their heads on spikes outside the gates, it'd be much more reasonable.

Wait.

So, you’re suggesting that everything was planned to happen that way?
So “Jabba rapes Leia” was, like, step 9 on the plan? Did she know when she agreed to the plan?

Considering Leia originally infiltrated them as a bounty hunter, I sincerely doubt slave anything was part of the plan.

I think the plan was more 'get key players into position to help if things goes wrong. Then negotiate for Hans release.

If negotiation fails, get taken prisoner and stage a breakout."

- It's this element that then failed with Leia getting caught and everything afterwards being improvised.

"How we doing?"
"About as well as usual."
"That bad, huh?"

To be fair, there was probably a case for not wanting to kill Jabba if they could help it, as setting his gang up against the Alliance would introduce a lot of unwanted complications. Luke may well have been willing to trade 3PO and R2 for the opportunity to negotiate with him, with each subsequent action low-key putting the important players in place but Luke all the while holds out hope Jabba will listen to reason, because it was the 80s and heroes were stupid like that.

Of course this begs the question, if Leia's plan was to bring in Chewie in order to sell her credentials as an effective bounty hunter, sneak in and spirit Han away in the dead of night... were they just going to leave Chewie there?

With all that said and done, I think HISHE had a solid alternate plan they should have considered:

 Compel wrote:
Considering Leia originally infiltrated them as a bounty hunter, I sincerely doubt slave anything was part of the plan.

I think the plan was more 'get key players into position to help if things goes wrong. Then negotiate for Hans release.

If negotiation fails, get taken prisoner and stage a breakout."

- It's this element that then failed with Leia getting caught and everything afterwards being improvised.

"How we doing?"
"About as well as usual."
"That bad, huh?"

It’s a shame they didn’t know anyone who could look into the future.

A sci fi magazine from between Empire and Jedi put out the theory that Han would kill Jabba and, by the pirate code or whatever, become king of the Space Pirates.

He would then marry Leia, uniting the Pirate and Rebel fleets to overthrow the Empire.

Somehow their fan theories are better than what we got.

Except for the part about Jedi being clones of Jesus.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Of course this begs the question, if Leia's plan was to bring in Chewie in order to sell her credentials as an effective bounty hunter, sneak in and spirit Han away in the dead of night... were they just going to leave Chewie there?

Lando already was in place as one of the palace guards or enforcers or whatever. I figure the idea was to get Chewbacca out alongside Han because they had an undiscovered inside man with the keys to the castle.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
A sci fi magazine from between Empire and Jedi put out the theory that Han would kill Jabba and, by the pirate code or whatever, become king of the Space Pirates.

He would then marry Leia, uniting the Pirate and Rebel fleets to overthrow the Empire.

Somehow their fan theories are better than what we got.

Except for the part about Jedi being clones of Jesus.

I had it in mind that was an earlier draft for the plot? Chances are it’s just me getting confused though.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
A sci fi magazine from between Empire and Jedi put out the theory that Han would kill Jabba and, by the pirate code or whatever, become king of the Space Pirates.

He would then marry Leia, uniting the Pirate and Rebel fleets to overthrow the Empire.

Somehow their fan theories are better than what we got.

Except for the part about Jedi being clones of Jesus.

See that would have been much better. Would also show why Jabba was feared so much; guy had a literal army at his beck and call.

honestly I'm willing to over look a plan coming together due to an unlikely series of coincidances when the source of the plan is a Jedi. They are after all guided by the plot.. I mean the force

Just re-watching Chapter 12....and it struck me.

We know nothing about The Child prior to Din kidnapping him.

Yet, we’ve seen him using The Force in particularly advanced ways, such as force pull and force heal.

Now, we can reasonably deduce from what’s gone before that force users have at least some innate control over their potential abilities.

Starting with Luke, he actually saw relatively little Force use prior to training with Yoda. If memory serves, he clearly witnesses Jedi mind tricks on Tattooine. But other than that, he only really sees Obi-Wan feel a disturbance in the force, identify the TIE as a short ranged fighter before anyone actually sees the bugger, plus his short stint of lightsaber training. Yet, in ESB, with no further training (Obi-Wan’s “get your skinny arse to Dagobah, fool” seemingly being his first physical manifestation). Plus, he certainly channels it in the Trench Run, as Vader remarks, and Obi-Wan then encourages)

Rey? She picks things up on the fly from Kylo (so arguably taught by him?), before tuition with Luke, and studying the ancient Jedi texts.

Anakin? It’s made clear his skill as a pilot comes directly from his strength in the force.

The Child though....is it possible he’s had at least some tuition? Possibly by his parents (if he’s not a Clone himself). Yet he’s the second Force User we actually see on screen using Force Heal. And why was he being so heavily guarded, and by whom?

I was wondering that the other day. There's a LOT of Mercs guarding the child. From conversation with Kuiil, they've been there a long time and neither Din or IG-11 are the first bounty hunters to take a crack at getting him. It's turned the local area into a minor war zone, and Kuiil wants them gone.

And as we've seen, Gideon actually has quite a lot of troops - why the cloak and dagger stuff? There's enough mercs there to take down bounty hunters and raiders, but a company of Stormtroopers are going to roll right over them. Who's in control of them that Gideon didn't want it known that the Imperials had nabbed The Child?

Multiple factions wanted Baby Yoda as well. Don’t forget IG’s job was kill him on sight, not retrieve. Isn’t BY supposed to be like fifty or am I misremembering that tidbit?

Yeah, 50. And The Client was happy to have The Child killed, if things worked out that way - it was the doctor who wanted to make sure he was alive.

And then The Client was wiped out by Gideon, who seems to be very much coming down on the "no witnesses, no ties to The Empire" side of things.

In terms of the Cloak & Dagger?

Twofold as I see it.

1. Mercenaries are cheap. Dead mercenaries are even cheaper. You can send as many as you like as you only need pay the successful one.

2. An action like that might draw unwanted attention. For the moment, we don’t know the extent of Gideon’s forces. It may simply be that one Arquitens in terms of a fleet, or he may have significantly more hidden away. Either way, whatever he’s working on, he’d be wise to be very, very wary of tipping off the New Republic.

This also fits him issuing the bounty via The Client, who is of course revealed to be a cat’s paw.

The unresolved question remains....who was guarding The Child, and the all important why.