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S2E6 is the worst episode of The Mandalorian I have seen.

Which doesn’t mean it’s terrible, considering every other episode has been between good and great.

But S2E6 was not good. I don’t like how a show about low stakes is careening towards “epic” with minimal time for characterization and meaningful set up/pay off structures. There’s some neat stuff in this episode but it’s crammed in amid essentially boring action scenes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
The producers seem very much aware of the yawning gap between Prequels-era dance fighting and OT-era naturalism.

I've never quite understood the pining for "naturalism" like the OT.

We saw an old man, a cripple, and a scarcely trained boy fighting in the OT.

Simple, because SW is about character emotional development rather than special effects. This was somewhat understood by Force Awakens, especially in the climactic Finn-Rey-Kylo fight. Also done really well in Solo.

 Compel wrote:
I don't know about 'diminishing Lukes importance' but it's also, like... A *BIG* galaxy out there.

Honestly, that was the crippling fault of the EU by the end. The big three and friends solved all the problems over and over to the point where the whole setting kind of collapsed around them. That's why the most memorable stories are the ones that featured other characters and actually pushed the setting out.

The EU? It's the problem NOW. Every character in starwars basically lives on the same block. They can't help but run into each other constantly. And then you introduce a brand new character on a brand new planet and he, in a matter of weeks to months, stumbles into a veritable whos who of the Starwars cast. "Welcome to the neighborhood Dinn! We just wanted to let you know that since you now live on Starwars street that me, Ahsoka Tano is your neighbor. And that house over there is Bo Katan. And right over there is Bobba Fett. And if you just turn the corner you can meet Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and Chewbacca. Don't worry. You will get to know everyone soon enough."

Hahaha Lance, you’re not wrong!

 LordofHats wrote:
Speeding it up so that they're not obviously guys and gals on strings doesn't change how silly it looks to me.

I don't recall them speeding up anything in the sabre fights.

Tattooine is like THE place to be it seems despite the whole point of it being.... not.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Speeding it up so that they're not obviously guys and gals on strings doesn't change how silly it looks to me.

I don't recall them speeding up anything in the sabre fights.

I mean it's faster than a typical wuxia action scene, where characters will often be suspended in their air as if floating and are clearly hanging from strings. The action in the prequels is more fluid than that, but still imo rather silly and overdone in effect.

The Anakin v Obi-Wan fight comes to mind where they swing their lightsabers in big circles at each other for seemingly no reason.

Useful reference:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Speeding it up so that they're not obviously guys and gals on strings doesn't change how silly it looks to me.

I don't recall them speeding up anything in the sabre fights.

I don't think they did in the OT, but the prequel saber fights were sped up. They talk about it in the behind the scenes material.

I do agree with Manchu's interpretation, but I don't think the last episode was the absolute worst. It did have a lot of problems: questionable action sequences, , some questionable shots (yay Robert Rodriguez), and terrible scenery. Honestly, the scenery in the last episode was no better than Star Trek TOS.

What annoys me in particular is that the ST was bad. It had great visuals and I liked the lightsaber fights despite the choreography being unrealistic...but who wants to see lightsaber fencing? The writing was bad and the writing for The Mandalorian isn't anything special. The EU was dropped and largely ignored, supposedly for something better. None of the Disney canon is markedly better and a lot of it is worse. They certainly haven't released anything on par with the best of the EU, despite having that as potential inspiration.

Edit:

Concerning the PT lightsaber duels. I think most people agree that the Duel of the Fates was the highlight of The Phantom Menace, even at the time of release. I think George Lucas likely took note of that and went too far with that style in the following films.

Well. We’ve never seen Boba not be honourable.

In fact, we’ve previously seen him do precious little, beyond tail the Falcon, and then get knocked into the Sarlacc having not achieved a huge amount during the battle.

Well we do indeed see him run a gang as a teen in clone wars.
But adult Boba didnt.

 trexmeyer wrote:
. Honestly, the scenery in the last episode was no better than Star Trek TOS.

Nah, if it was ST:TOS, it would have been covered in glitter.

The EU was dropped and largely ignored, supposedly for something better.

To be fair, I don't recall Disney ever claiming that the new Canon would be better than the EU. They replaced the EU because it was a mess, and they wanted an empty sandbox to build their own stories in.

The EU was dropped and largely ignored, supposedly for something better.

To be fair, I don't recall Disney ever claiming that the new Canon would be better than the EU. They replaced the EU because it was a mess, and they wanted an empty sandbox to build their own stories in.

Truth. Lucasfilm wanted to make a sequel story without being beholden to existing novel continuity (if we want to get technical they were probably planning to make the movies the way they wanted and someone deeper in Lucasfilm didn't want their respective tie-in novels to be beholden to existing continuity) which meant any EU material covering that period was going to get axed either way. So they made the legends brand and continue to sell the books under that label they still see demand for, rather than implement the George Lucas solution and simply vault them.

It doesn't really make sense to me to argue that 'Disney' is somehow systemically putting out worse work than before the acquisition since the underlying process (and the underlying people) at Lucasfilm haven't really changed. They're still putting out work aimed at all different kinds of target audiences and at all different levels of overall quality, but the highs and lows don't seem any worse than the highs and lows of Legends to me.

Maybe it would be fun to talk about our favourite star wars books in a separate thread?

yeah the reason the EU was a mess wasnt for bad quality, it was because it existed for so long it made no sense anymore.
Its like how Star Trek is inconsistent now. It had had, over 60 years, doezens of writers, several creative visions,and such to the point we dont know if the federation uses money or not!!

The only reason Disney Star Wars isn't comparable yet to the EU in terms of being a mess is lack of content. What exists currently has content that matches the worst of the EU in terms of being absolutely incoherent, Doctor Aphra being the first one that comes to mind. Some of those story arcs are on par with the really bad Lando novels.

Edit: To clarify, most of the EU is not good. The Disney content is just a cash grab.

 trexmeyer wrote:
The only reason Disney Star Wars isn't comparable yet to the EU in terms of being a mess is lack of content. What exists currently has content that matches the worst of the EU in terms of being absolutely incoherent, Doctor Aphra being the first one that comes to mind. Some of those story arcs are on par with the really bad Lando novels.

I've not read Aphra beyond the occasional shared image of what appears to be a canon version of Creepio, what's so bad about it?

 trexmeyer wrote:
Edit: To clarify, most of the EU is not good. The Disney content is just a cash grab.

And again: the 'Disney content' is still Lucasfilm content - in some cases literally novels that were written for the existing EU but published after canon/legends rebranding with no edits. My favourite Star Wars book happens to be a more recent canon story, and while we can certainly argue whether it's artistic merit is compromised by its inherently commercial nature - we cannot pretend that hasn't been Star Wars' bread and butter since (*checks notes*) before the first Star Wars movie was ever released.

More importantly, if Doctor Aphra or Mandalorian's approach doesn't appeal to you, what else have you read? and what is it you're looking for?

Well.

Daaaamn.

Also - I don't think Luke's going to turn up this series. But Mark Hamill has made a lot of noise about being finished with the character, and not wanting to be de-aged (though I suspect he'd do further voice work happily)

But he also seems to suggest Sebastian Stan as Luke a LOT. We know that, about now, Luke's going to be thinking of setting up a new Jedi academy for Kylo to butcher in 20 years time. Wouldn't surprised me if Grogu ends up recruited.

Wouldn't surprised me if he survives again, becoming the only being to survive the annihilation of two Jedi academies.

But I think him meeting Luke is a ways down the line.

Was it here that some had the idea that Han and Luke and Chewie and everyone else should keep showing up, but only background shots?

Because that would be an amazing troll.

Mando lands somewhere just as Falcon is taking off. Chewie pushes past him into a bar. Luke and Lando run be in the background with some Storm Troopers following.

Never mention it, never explain. Just goes on by.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Was it here that some had the idea that Han and Luke and Chewie and everyone else should keep showing up, but only background shots?

Because that would be an amazing troll.

Mando lands somewhere just as Falcon is taking off. Chewie pushes past him into a bar. Luke and Lando run be in the background with some Storm Troopers following.

Never mention it, never explain. Just goes on by.

Yeah, that was me. The trick is to treat it subtle. No fancy camera pans or zooms or winks to audience, treat them like every other nobody background character.

That would be outstandingly fun.

Not sure if comparing the Mandalorian series to the European Union is helpful in explaining anything, unless Tatooine is basically Poland


Honestly, took me way too long to figure out what EU stood for. Was driving me crazy.

With the rumours of Mace Windu coming back, that would be well, quite the interesting dynamic with Boba....

My name is Boba Fett. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Hell, we've already had the Dread Pirate Boba in this thread, so why not?

 Chillreaper wrote:
My name is Boba Fett. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

Oh. Ooohh.
I was just thinking that it would be another totally pointless dead character, making a fanservice appointment to meet the protagonist and welcome him to Star Wars street.

 Chillreaper wrote:
My name is Boba Fett. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

How can you recognize the one Jedi out of a giant swirling melee from decades ago who killed him?
Easy, he’s the only one with a purple light saber.

For most us, yes, the man who killed our father would be the cause of a lifetime of vengeance... but the Mandalorians are a warrior society. A mercenary warrior society at that. They seem to care about things, but not so much people, and especially not dead people. Look at Din and Fenec. They fought, she almost died, now they're immediately cool.

Ahsoka tries to cut him down, no no let's talk. k.

Heck, Din's trying to get a dude he betrayed to join his squad for the heist.

Trying, or even succeeding at killing someone seems to be viewed as an occupational hazard for Mandalorians. He was way more upset at the New Republic trying to put the law on him.

It might go more like 'you killed my father'.

Intense stares and hands straying to weapons.

'It was a good fight.'

Intense forearm clasps.

It WAS war. And Jango's head got separated from his shoulders after trying to kill Windu. Boba can certainly feel vengeful, but righteous...I dunno. Especially for a warrior society as mentioned.

 gorgon wrote:
It WAS war. And Jango's head got separated from his shoulders after trying to kill Windu. Boba can certainly feel vengeful, but righteous...I dunno. Especially for a warrior society as mentioned.

He did trie to kill Windu when he was teen during the Clone Wars. He obviousl failed, but I can't remember if he decided to move on after that. Familly is very important to Mandalorians and a source of endless drama and civil wars in their society. Bobba might have changed a lot over the years, but he seems to remain a mercenary with his own personnal code (as dubious as this code might be).