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I saw someone say this on an online forum, a comment on the harsh reality of a potential future that hit me pretty hard. Given how closely related GSC and Guard will be it could happen:
"Can't wait for the GSC codex to come out and be fine and balanced as a standalone codex until WAAC guard players use it in some degenerate way and then it gets nerfed to oblivion while Guard walks away unscathed."
I'm probably worrying for nothing here, and making a bigger deal out of it than I should, but I very much feel there's a chance this could happen. Look at Blood Angels, and to a certain extent, Knights.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 12:47:45
CaptainBetts wrote: I saw someone say this on an online forum, a comment on the harsh reality of a potential future that hit me pretty hard. Given how closely related GSC and Guard will be it could happen:
"Can't wait for the GSC codex to come out and be fine and balanced as a standalone codex until WAAC guard players use it in some degenerate way and then it gets nerfed to oblivion while Guard walks away unscathed."
I'm probably worrying for nothing here, and making a bigger deal out of it than I should, but I very much feel there's a chance this could happen. Look at Blood Angels, and to a certain extent, Knights.
Except it's not "WAAC guard players". It's WAAC players, period. You can go read a lot of the Guard related threads and see that Guard players have had the same concerns with regards to every bit of soup that's come up with their book.
Blood Angels and Castellans saw a nerf--and yet they still are better off than Conscripts and Commissars are since the nerf those two units saw.
If they added a new unit aside from the 2 new HQ's, do any of you think its possible that we might get a ranged unit? Maybe like Acolytes with some kind of heavy ranged weapon. I highly doubt it as that would encroach on Neophytes, but it's an interesting idea.
Also a mining platform LoW would be amazing
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 14:10:59
<Dynasty> ~10500pts
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze ~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps ~3250pts
Admech (TBN) ~3500pts +30k Bots and Ulator
I don't mind cult ambush as a mechanic, but there are many factors that contribute to making it OP at times. One of those is just how absolutely hard the GSC units can hit, especially if you pull it off with multiple units, the second is board layout. Many advocate a terrain dense board, such as myself, but with that comes condensed units, which makes a cult ambush even more powerful due to giving so much additional protection if for example the charge doesn't go off, or making it easier to isolate units or even consolidations shenanigans that can tie up huge amounts of an army in the following turn that can't contribute to getting rid of the unit due to falling back.
I'd be in favor of it being more reliable deployment wise but it would have to have an associated cost, and that cost should be in points, not CP and a hefty point cost at that.
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog
Red Corsair wrote: Priest don't grant a reroll BTW, they grant +1 attack. Also priests have been a thing in guard armies longer then sisters have been an army. Not trying to kick a nest here, but that should be cleared up.
Not sure, scratch that I am positive GSC doesn't need IG as a CP battery as well.
If you want rules for bigger mutants your in luck because we happen to ally with Tyranids as well. PLENTY of large scale multi limbed mutants over there. Tyranid warriors fit the same bill for modelling as ogryn fir example only they have more flexible options. Only reason to really push for bulgryn on a rules front is because they are such a strong unit. Nothing wrong with the cult not having access to every strong guard unit. In any case it doesn't matter I suppose because the books in the pipe by now and the dice are cast.
Some sort of brutish mutant could be a great fit for the spot you're taking. Something that is the equivalent of a dreadnought, but made mostly of flesh and wielding an I-Beam for a weapon would be very, very cool.
Like... a Carnifex? I mean, convert the model and use the Carnifex rules...
This was exactly what I was getting at.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kharne the Befriender wrote: If they added a new unit aside from the 2 new HQ's, do any of you think its possible that we might get a ranged unit? Maybe like Acolytes with some kind of heavy ranged weapon. I highly doubt it as that would encroach on Neophytes, but it's an interesting idea.
Also a mining platform LoW would be amazing
I'd rather they simply fix are ranged weapons we already have. Mining lasers come 2 per 10 neos at only 14 pts. All they need is a set 3 damage and they are in amazing territory. Sure the range is limiting, but that's part of the game we play, armies shouldn't run on auto pilot. Besides, with cult ambush or simply moving they can usually get into range fine. Even needing 5's isn't a huge deal since you get 2:1 over infantry squads from IG, so your still hitting with 1 75% of the time on the move. As for small arms, you already answered it, I can't see any unit beating what we already have per point spent. Currently a 20 man neo unit rolling a 5 on an ambush is the equivalent of the same number of cultists from chaos using a 2cp shoot again stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 15:48:50
I hadn't considered using Tyranid models, likely because I was thinking of more human statlines, but the idea of a massive mutant GSC thing with a big ol' feck off melee weapon is cool.
I'd be in favor of it being more reliable deployment wise but it would have to have an associated cost, and that cost should be in points, not CP and a hefty point cost at that.
Looking at genestealers, both cult and hive fleet, it costs about 2-3 points per model on Elite infantry. On regular infantry, it might come at a discounted price per model, since you need way more of them. I sort of agree it needs to be balanced better, and that it should be through points, but I disagree with it being hefty across the board.
As ive played GSC very heavily in 8th as a stand alone army, i can tell you how i feel about it. Maybe not as well as someone deep in the competitive bush of the wilds.
Cult Ambush is an expensive gamble already. It really pays off when you can get those 2-3 units in to combat from the flanks, or when you can line up a good round of heavy shooting before the shooting phase. But, those are balanced out by getting massacred when you fail evwry charge, or whiff every shot. Its not as reliable as id like, and the glass cannon nature of it, even on a dense board, can completely screw turn 2-3 onward.
Maybe its because its still an index army, but it feels like an Elite-Horde army was what they wanted to make GsC into at first. Everything you wanted to take into Ambush to deal with problem units was expensive, and only really worked in large numbers. The chaff was okay, but armor too was abit expensive for the use you got out of them.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
I'd be in favor of it being more reliable deployment wise but it would have to have an associated cost, and that cost should be in points, not CP and a hefty point cost at that.
Looking at genestealers, both cult and hive fleet, it costs about 2-3 points per model on Elite infantry. On regular infantry, it might come at a discounted price per model, since you need way more of them. I sort of agree it needs to be balanced better, and that it should be through points, but I disagree with it being hefty across the board.
As ive played GSC very heavily in 8th as a stand alone army, i can tell you how i feel about it. Maybe not as well as someone deep in the competitive bush of the wilds.
Cult Ambush is an expensive gamble already. It really pays off when you can get those 2-3 units in to combat from the flanks, or when you can line up a good round of heavy shooting before the shooting phase. But, those are balanced out by getting massacred when you fail evwry charge, or whiff every shot. Its not as reliable as id like, and the glass cannon nature of it, even on a dense board, can completely screw turn 2-3 onward.
Maybe its because its still an index army, but it feels like an Elite-Horde army was what they wanted to make GsC into at first. Everything you wanted to take into Ambush to deal with problem units was expensive, and only really worked in large numbers. The chaff was okay, but armor too was abit expensive for the use you got out of them.
I don't know, I suppose it isn't as bad against some armies, against other elite armies though cult ambush can be a game winner almost immediately. If you force the elite army to castle up to avoid their better units getting mauled, you're just feeding the support units to the GSC models, so you are already reducing the number of an already small army and can be just out maneuvered easily in the game. On the flip side, you don't castle up and you lose your key units.
A 33% chance to almost guarantee a first turn charge if just too much for me personally, especially as I said above how hard the units can potentially hit as well. It's very fluffy though and I do think they should be able to do it, but it should be costed as such, 50, 75, 100pts I don't know to be able to deploy 9" away from the enemy. I'd even let them choose to do this redeployment once you know who is going first as you won't set up 9" away then necessarily.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 17:57:46
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog
Cult Ambush took a bat to the knees with the change to reserves via matched play though, so while it was a strong alpha strike option making it a beta strike option means losing some of your punch on turn 1 in hopes of counter-punching on turn 2. It's a risk/reward trade off, especially if you drop a lot of points into big hordes to ambush with.
Cephalobeard wrote: Let's not turn this GSC Thread into more constant whining about Guard, we have that in literally every other thread on Dakka.
Hey don't turn this thread into whining about how every other thread on Dakka is whining about Guard, we will whine about what we want here. OK?
[Moderator permitting, of course]
Hey! Don't whine about people whining about every thread on Dakka whining about Guard!
More seriously though, I hope GW has taken Guard & Tyranids into account when designing GSC. Both from bringing them into a dominantly GSC army and from bringing a GSC into a dominantly Guard/Tyranid army.
Cephalobeard wrote: Let's not turn this GSC Thread into more constant whining about Guard, we have that in literally every other thread on Dakka.
Hey don't turn this thread into whining about how every other thread on Dakka is whining about Guard, we will whine about what we want here. OK?
[Moderator permitting, of course]
Edit: Unrelated to the above
I do also hope that the strat to ambush a vehicle is... maybe 1CP, rather than two? Ambushing 2 Goliaths with Cache's could be super fun, but I feel like at 2 CP you'd rarely ever do more than 1. Maybe with the combo of guard/GSC you'd have enough CP to manage it, though.
Popping up with like 8 Shotguns and 2 Grenade Launchers, a Cache, the Autocannons and a Stubber from 9" and then moving in to half range for the shotguns, or even just shooting twice on the entry, could be pretty neat.
I'm hoping that if we pay to ambush things we pay like the Orks do: if it's under a certain PL it's 1, if it's over it's 2. That way we can ambush basically everything (ambushing Leman Russ anyone?) but we have to weigh the benefits based on the points costs.
None of them played GSC, and considered anything they got was overpowered.
This could explain any potential changes in the design team... the GW presentation at UKGE earlier this year was done by the design studio manager... who clearly stated that GSC was his favourite/go to army and that he was really excited to get an update early next year. Can't see him being overly keen on anyone messing with his pets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 19:50:33
Red Corsair wrote: Priest don't grant a reroll BTW, they grant +1 attack. Also priests have been a thing in guard armies longer then sisters have been an army. Not trying to kick a nest here, but that should be cleared up.
Not sure, scratch that I am positive GSC doesn't need IG as a CP battery as well.
If you want rules for bigger mutants your in luck because we happen to ally with Tyranids as well. PLENTY of large scale multi limbed mutants over there. Tyranid warriors fit the same bill for modelling as ogryn fir example only they have more flexible options. Only reason to really push for bulgryn on a rules front is because they are such a strong unit. Nothing wrong with the cult not having access to every strong guard unit. In any case it doesn't matter I suppose because the books in the pipe by now and the dice are cast.
Some sort of brutish mutant could be a great fit for the spot you're taking. Something that is the equivalent of a dreadnought, but made mostly of flesh and wielding an I-Beam for a weapon would be very, very cool.
Like... a Carnifex? I mean, convert the model and use the Carnifex rules...
No, something humanoid. Think more like the troll from the Mines of Moria, hulking, nasty, warped and mutated. I'd like the keep the more advanced forms of Tyranid life forms in the Tyranid book, GSC and Tyrnids aren't the same thing.
ceorron wrote: Really looking forward to what GW does with genestealer cults model wise. Could be a real bubbling pot of new ideas from them.
I'd personally really like to see some fast units which don't Cult Ambush traditionally, such as bikers or winged hybrids.
I'd also love to see some sort of mining weapon Lord of War. It'll never happen, but it would be awesome if it did, and looked like this:
Spoiler:
Yeah, pretty much what I'm thinking. That would be cool.
Think I've wanted something like this, ever since the old Armageddon fluff about dock workers strapping themselves into their cranes and loaders to go out and fight the Gargants and Stompas that were threatening the Hive.
Take advantage of the Cult to add in a few more glimpses at civilian Imperial life.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/01 20:23:07
Speaking of civilian life, heres to hoping for a mass transit vehicle with armor plates strapped to it and racks of autoguns poking out of the sides and windows.
Armored suicide bus please.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Carnikang wrote: Speaking of civilian life, heres to hoping for a mass transit vehicle with armor plates strapped to it and racks of autoguns poking out of the sides and windows.
Armored suicide bus please.
That would be so awesome. Crap toughness and save, but about 50 wounds would be hilarious.
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
Carnikang wrote: Speaking of civilian life, heres to hoping for a mass transit vehicle with armor plates strapped to it and racks of autoguns poking out of the sides and windows.
Armored suicide bus please.
That would be so awesome. Crap toughness and save, but about 50 wounds would be hilarious.
Yeah civilian vehicles made up for war would be a really awesome spin.
Carnikang wrote: Speaking of civilian life, heres to hoping for a mass transit vehicle with armor plates strapped to it and racks of autoguns poking out of the sides and windows.
Armored suicide bus please.
That would be so awesome. Crap toughness and save, but about 50 wounds would be hilarious.
Yeah civilian vehicles made up for war would be a really awesome spin.
We've already got this one solved guys! It's been around for 30+ years.
CaptainBetts wrote: I saw someone say this on an online forum, a comment on the harsh reality of a potential future that hit me pretty hard. Given how closely related GSC and Guard will be it could happen:
"Can't wait for the GSC codex to come out and be fine and balanced as a standalone codex until WAAC guard players use it in some degenerate way and then it gets nerfed to oblivion while Guard walks away unscathed."
I'm probably worrying for nothing here, and making a bigger deal out of it than I should, but I very much feel there's a chance this could happen. Look at Blood Angels, and to a certain extent, Knights.
They've literally been able to do this since the Index, so why start now?
Unless GSC suddenly get a unit on the level of Shield-Captains, 'Smash Captains' and Knights that makes taking <Tyranid>. over <Imperium> which I doubt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/02 01:02:24
Games Workshop is doing a seminar at Blood and Glory (in Derby, UK) this evening, from 8pm - 11pm. They're showing off Blackstone Fortress as part of it. I reckon they'll also announce the Genestealer Cults codex. We'll find out about 30 minutes after the seminar ends (and journalists write up the stuff that happened), at about 11:30pm UK time. I'm tentatively excited.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Nothing came up particularly for GSC in that seminar. The codex wasn't really "announced", hence why GSC aren't mentioned at all in the summary article here:
Think that means we're still at the 3+ months stage then. Initial reveal of models (including the Aberrant) following the UK Games Expo specifically said that the book wasn't ready but some models would appear early.
I think I'd expect to see a preview in December as being something to look forward to in the new year. Maybe also even a Chaos vs Gene Cult battle set as part of the Vigilus stage 2 release next year.
we’ll have more news and previews for you at the Vigilus Weekender event in Warhammer World later this month…
That studio preview is on the last weekend of this month. We know GSC are on Vigilus from Tooth & Claw, so...
Also from the Kill Team Story. Since Vigilus is becoming a hotbed for conflict, I'm fairly sure we might see some teasers in the near future.
PourSpelur wrote: It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Necrons: 3500pts 
Genestealer Cult: 5000pts 
Grey Knights: 2500pts 
Daemons: 250pts 
Orks: 500pts 
Dark Eldar: 400pts 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
~3250pts
Admech (TBN) 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
