Switch Theme:

Chaos Marines Tactica [8th Edition]  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So out of all of this stuff i still don't see an answer to 3 vindicares just shooting our buff units dead and the army falling back to like its always been. Anyone find an answer to the 3 amigos and their chr / -2 to hit while in cover bs?
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






Azuza001 wrote:
So out of all of this stuff i still don't see an answer to 3 vindicares just shooting our buff units dead and the army falling back to like its always been. Anyone find an answer to the 3 amigos and their chr / -2 to hit while in cover bs?


Deepstriking bloodletters/warp talons to chop them to pieces. Hiding characters behing terrain or a rhino.
Psychic powers that can target characters such as infernal gaze.
Taking big characters on the back of daemon engines/saemon princes that generally don't worry about their str 5 weapons.

They're a pain in the arse but not unplayable.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

There's no real answer to 3 vindicares in CSM that I can think of, assuming your opponent knows how to set up their army. That's a particular shame for the dank apostle, as his prayer triggers at the beginning of movement, so he can't even hide in a transport, jump out and at least have one good round. Unfortunately I think Daemon princes are a pretty good answer to vindicares, as their toughness and lack of infantry keyword means they can be relatively blasé about them.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





 lindsay40k wrote:
Anyone up for running DPP numbers on chaingun squad versus Noise Marines?


5 noise boys with sonic blasters 95pts
15 S4 shots

GEQ - 4.44w (21.4PPD)
MEQ - 1.67w (56.89PPD)
TEQ - 0.83w (114.46PPD)

5 Havocs with combi bolter and 4 chaincannons 152pts
2 s4 shots
32 s5 -1 shots

GEQ - 12.44 (12.22PPD)
MEQ - 7.33 (20.74PPD)
TEQ - 2.12 (71.70PPD)

No brainer really

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

 small_gods wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
So out of all of this stuff i still don't see an answer to 3 vindicares just shooting our buff units dead and the army falling back to like its always been. Anyone find an answer to the 3 amigos and their chr / -2 to hit while in cover bs?


Deepstriking bloodletters/warp talons to chop them to pieces. Hiding characters behing terrain or a rhino.
Psychic powers that can target characters such as infernal gaze.
Taking big characters on the back of daemon engines/saemon princes that generally don't worry about their str 5 weapons.

They're a pain in the arse but not unplayable.


Deep strike units of 3x flamers, 3d6 -1 ap flamer hits should do it. And its super cheap!

Check out my P&M Blog!
Check out my YouTube channel, Heretic Wargaming USA: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLiPUI3zwSxPiHzWjFQKcNA
Latest Tourney results:
1st Place Special Mission tourney 12/15/18 (Battlereps)
2nd Place ITC tourney 08/20/18 ( Battlerep)
3rd Place ITC Tourney 06/08/18(Battlereps
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Only competition for horde killing might be heavy bolter rapier battery. you can have 2 for the exact same 152 pts.
It's giving you 24 shots rather than 32 but you have 8 T5 wounds and the range will keep you safer.
No endless cacophony/votlw etc on the rapier...

   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






 Zid wrote:
 small_gods wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
So out of all of this stuff i still don't see an answer to 3 vindicares just shooting our buff units dead and the army falling back to like its always been. Anyone find an answer to the 3 amigos and their chr / -2 to hit while in cover bs?


Deepstriking bloodletters/warp talons to chop them to pieces. Hiding characters behing terrain or a rhino.
Psychic powers that can target characters such as infernal gaze.
Taking big characters on the back of daemon engines/saemon princes that generally don't worry about their str 5 weapons.

They're a pain in the arse but not unplayable.


Deep strike units of 3x flamers, 3d6 -1 ap flamer hits should do it. And its super cheap!


This is why I think that summoning has such potential, leave a few points off the table and bring what you need!
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Abaddon303 wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
Anyone up for running DPP numbers on chaingun squad versus Noise Marines?


5 noise boys with sonic blasters 95pts
15 S4 shots

GEQ - 4.44w (21.4PPD)
MEQ - 1.67w (56.89PPD)
TEQ - 0.83w (114.46PPD)

5 Havocs with combi bolter and 4 chaincannons 152pts
2 s4 shots
32 s5 -1 shots

GEQ - 12.44 (12.22PPD)
MEQ - 7.33 (20.74PPD)
TEQ - 2.12 (71.70PPD)

No brainer really


Wow, that is quite a stark contrast


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 small_gods wrote:
 Zid wrote:
 small_gods wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
So out of all of this stuff i still don't see an answer to 3 vindicares just shooting our buff units dead and the army falling back to like its always been. Anyone find an answer to the 3 amigos and their chr / -2 to hit while in cover bs?


Deepstriking bloodletters/warp talons to chop them to pieces. Hiding characters behing terrain or a rhino.
Psychic powers that can target characters such as infernal gaze.
Taking big characters on the back of daemon engines/saemon princes that generally don't worry about their str 5 weapons.

They're a pain in the arse but not unplayable.


Deep strike units of 3x flamers, 3d6 -1 ap flamer hits should do it. And its super cheap!


This is why I think that summoning has such potential, leave a few points off the table and bring what you need!


You can’t Summon bloodletters with the banner of 3D6 charge

Flamers would be interesting if we had a mobile summoner. MoP has to walk up to the Vindicares on foot, and everyone else has to stand still for a turn. Neither are particularly appealing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 22:02:30


   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine






 lindsay40k wrote:
You can’t Summon bloodletters with the banner of 3D6 charge

Flamers would be interesting if we had a mobile summoner. MoP has to walk up to the Vindicares on foot, and everyone else has to stand still for a turn. Neither are particularly appealing.


You only have to get him within 24" if you stick him in a rhino, use warptime, forward operatives etc it should be easily possible to get him there unscathed.

I think fiends, horrors, exalted flaners and plaguebearers would all find their uses too in a summoning list. You could even drop a soul grinder in someone's face if you needed a big distraction!
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

If the vindies are just sitting there with no wrap, then there's plenty of things that could toast them. I mean, even warp talons could do it, with their new 7" charge! But I don't know how many times you're going to see that in competitive play.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/23 22:34:04


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





for my Emperors children im now tempted to split my force

1 battalion - EC fill with my oblits, havocs and others stuff
small detachment of flawless host- Daemon prince with wings and all the toys as warlord, with a party bus rhino next to him full of either CC kitted chosen or Possessed and greater possessed, master of possession might hitch a ride aswell. really goofy party bus 5 possessed-2 greater possessed-master of possession-1 priest+1 very uncomfortable disciple surrounded by monsters.

I also think possibly just sticking 5 havocs in a rhino + 5 basic marines might be good for first turn defence, rhino goes up and dumps out havocs turn one who can go do their thing then drives off to put the 5 marines on an objective somewhere to sit and chill using bolter discipline.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah I am assuming they are going to be behind other things that will bubble wrap them. Deamon princes is the best i could think of as well.
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

Just pay the 1 cp abd deep strike... summoning is poo

Check out my P&M Blog!
Check out my YouTube channel, Heretic Wargaming USA: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLiPUI3zwSxPiHzWjFQKcNA
Latest Tourney results:
1st Place Special Mission tourney 12/15/18 (Battlereps)
2nd Place ITC tourney 08/20/18 ( Battlerep)
3rd Place ITC Tourney 06/08/18(Battlereps
   
Made in ch
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






So, with Terminators being considerably cheaper and able to equip chainaxes (for presumably 1pt), how are you planing to run yours and for what purpose? Termicide?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Darkseid wrote:
So, with Terminators being considerably cheaper and able to equip chainaxes (for presumably 1pt), how are you planing to run yours and for what purpose? Termicide?


Regardless of how competitive (or not) it might be, I like the idea of deploying 10 with just Chainaxes and Combi-Bolters in Alpha Legion colours, using the stratagem to give them a free 9" pre-game move if necessary, and just going to town on enemy chaff while my real melee threats move in for the kill. The Bolter Discipline rule ensures I get the full 40 shots at 24", they can defend themselves decently in a melee, and for less than 300 points that unit is pretty darned hard to shift. Having the utility to Deep Strike depending on the match-up is the icing on the cake; if I've got no other good targets for Veterans of the Long War, they'll really start to dish out the punishment with that chucked on. With all the anti-tank and high AP firepower I'll have elsewhere in my list, I'm not sure if taking upgraded combi-weapons or any of the heavy options will be necessary.

The new codex, the stuff in Shadowspear (particularly the Master of Possessions) and Vigilus Ablaze gives Chaos Marines a ridiculous amount of worthwhile new options, I'm sure that the "meta-list" will eventually come out but at the very least I can run all the new stuff - even basic Chaos Marines! - in an army list and expect to have decent results if I build towards some of the crazy synergies on offer. The big question is how many Lords Discordant I'm willing to buy, and whether I want to spring for Baleflamers on them
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





 small_gods wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
So out of all of this stuff i still don't see an answer to 3 vindicares just shooting our buff units dead and the army falling back to like its always been. Anyone find an answer to the 3 amigos and their chr / -2 to hit while in cover bs?


Deepstriking bloodletters/warp talons to chop them to pieces. Hiding characters behing terrain or a rhino.
Psychic powers that can target characters such as infernal gaze.
Taking big characters on the back of daemon engines/saemon princes that generally don't worry about their str 5 weapons.

They're a pain in the arse but not unplayable.


Yep. They are a pain. But we can also use line of sight. Vindicare cannot shoot what it can't see. I mentioned also that the Lord of Skulls is suitably big and blocky such that you can hide a character or two behind its huge bulk as it is making its way up the board. And daemon princes and that new Lord of DIscordant have T6, so its going to be tough for a vindicare to wound them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Caederes wrote:
 Darkseid wrote:
So, with Terminators being considerably cheaper and able to equip chainaxes (for presumably 1pt), how are you planing to run yours and for what purpose? Termicide?


Regardless of how competitive (or not) it might be, I like the idea of deploying 10 with just Chainaxes and Combi-Bolters in Alpha Legion colours, using the stratagem to give them a free 9" pre-game move if necessary, and just going to town on enemy chaff while my real melee threats move in for the kill. The Bolter Discipline rule ensures I get the full 40 shots at 24", they can defend themselves decently in a melee, and for less than 300 points that unit is pretty darned hard to shift. Having the utility to Deep Strike depending on the match-up is the icing on the cake; if I've got no other good targets for Veterans of the Long War, they'll really start to dish out the punishment with that chucked on. With all the anti-tank and high AP firepower I'll have elsewhere in my list, I'm not sure if taking upgraded combi-weapons or any of the heavy options will be necessary.

The new codex, the stuff in Shadowspear (particularly the Master of Possessions) and Vigilus Ablaze gives Chaos Marines a ridiculous amount of worthwhile new options, I'm sure that the "meta-list" will eventually come out but at the very least I can run all the new stuff - even basic Chaos Marines! - in an army list and expect to have decent results if I build towards some of the crazy synergies on offer. The big question is how many Lords Discordant I'm willing to buy, and whether I want to spring for Baleflamers on them


This! I love your way of thinking. Black legion can get a lot of milege out of terminators and I think being able to bring chainaxes really makes a huge difference now. You can go 4 with chainaxe and 1 with a powerfist and the whole squad is probably just as good in melee as when it was previously all power axes. And going combi bolters with the new bolter discipline is good. And they are cheap enough bulking out on a 10 man unit makes an interesting distraction carnefix, although if you go that route, then you definitely should buff it somewhat.

Even deep striking two 5 man termi units offer a great way to pressure the opponent now. The key thing is that now, we have an amazingly efficient gun to sweep chaff aside. Namely that reaper chain cannon. So, obliterating all the chaff in the way is now a very distinct possibility. With no chaff left to bubble wrap, small cheap terminator squads deep striking down at key points to apply pressure is very cool and thematic. Its like my terminators are teleporting in to deliver that decisive killing blow as the noose closes on my opponent.


As an aside, you know, we have all been fixated on that lord of discordant. But a flying BL daemon prince that takes that warlord trait that halves all damage is pretty scary too. It is screened while flying up the board, and even when it is loose amongst enemy ranks, it has effectively 16W.

Another thing I just thought of. Host raptorial special detachment applies to all jump pack units. Our lords can take thunder hammers now I believe. Take a supreme command detachment with 3 jump pack lords with thunderhammers. When they deep strike in, they now all have a 7 inch charge with that host raptorial warlord trait? hmmm... tasty. We may not even need raptors or warptalons at this stage if we can have our very own version of chaos smash face. lol

All these different combos and such are making me realise one thing. We need command points, a lot of them. So the spiky 17 is going to be a must take in competitive environments I believe. I am not sure about taking a max squad of 20 at this stage though. It really sounds cool, but honestly at this stage, I think a CSM list gunning for competitive is going to have too many scary combo threats for your opponent to worry about trying to eliminate a 20 man squad of CSM. He has to worry about those 3 squads of havocs with reaper chain cannons, he has to worry about that lord of discordant and maybe friends charging his lines, then he has to worry about potential deep strikes in by raptorial hosts, or terminators, or even chaos smash captains. Or that buffed posssessed charging up the field, or even berserkers in Rhinos. (because the chaff is all gone). The last thing he will be thinking about is to kill off that 20 man CSM squad, which can be brought back with 3 CP anyway.

BTW, can a normal CSM squad take that reaper chain cannon? someone confirm? If so, that means 3 MSU squads of CSM can take 3. that's pretty efficient too.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/03/24 03:10:45


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




So I mean, I think the honest answer is that pretty much no army has an easy way to deal with vindicares. They are probably going to be as douchey a thing as castelians are. Castelians warp the meta such that most vehicles aren't worthwhile, not only due to their own antiarmor but also the level of antiarmor the rest of the world then needs to bring. Likewise, if triple vindicare becomes meta, it will eliminate yet another fun thing; character lynchpins. This probably hurts eldar the most....sucks because whether or not you like eldar, they're just about the only thing which beats imperial soup.

For chaos? Meh. I think dark apostates will be an option, but I really don't think they'll be critical; 100 points to give a unit -1 to hit really requires a very good unit. Lords don't get run a lot. Sorcs are vulnerable, but probably not as vital for us because we have tough psyker options. I'd say run lords discordant, abby and daemon princes in HQs...all things you'd want to do anyways...and be kosher. The bigger pain in the butt is actually him shooting the daemon support characters, particularly the nurgle ones.

I do hope triple vindicare does not become meta. Narrowing pool of viable army builds is bad planning.
   
Made in ca
Monstrously Massive Big Mutant






So has it been stated yet that there was literally an FAQ saying that says buildings don't count against the rules for keywords? It's perfectly fine to bring a detachment for the new building, just like how the bastion can be brought. This is nothing new, this was an FAQ from like, a year ago.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Was something changed with the vindicare that I missed? Dude's been around since the index days and I've never seen him as a serious problem. He was always the best sniper but being the best of a bad bunch doesn't make the cut for a list.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Was something changed with the vindicare that I missed? Dude's been around since the index days and I've never seen him as a serious problem. He was always the best sniper but being the best of a bad bunch doesn't make the cut for a list.

You must have missed where Assassins got a huge boost in power from a White Dwarf index. They all got strats and everything, and Imperial players can just leave 85 points out of their list and spend a CP to choose which Assassin they want at the beginning of the game (after they see the opponent's list). Vindicare might be the best one.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
Grotsnik Corp. Sorry, No Refunds.
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'm finding it really hard to decide what HQs to go with. Dark Apostles, Masters of Possession, Sorcerers, Chaos Lords, Daemon Princes, Lords Discordant all seem like must-takes for different reasons now. Having so much choice now means you've really got to figure out what list theme you're going for. I almost don't even want to run cheap HQs like the Greater Possessed or Master of Executions just to fill that slot in detachments because the other ones all provide so much synergy, especially with the specialist detachments. Going Black Legion with Abaddon is also a very alluring prospect. Decisions, decisions!
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Arachnofiend wrote:
Was something changed with the vindicare that I missed? Dude's been around since the index days and I've never seen him as a serious problem. He was always the best sniper but being the best of a bad bunch doesn't make the cut for a list.


Yeah, they are op now. One Vindicare, if lucky can snipe and kill a 4W hero in one turn. The problem is if players bring three of those things. That's when they can even bring down any hero, regardless of stats within one or two turns. One is still ok to face. But when you have three... that's when things start to break down. They are also hard countered by knight lists. I mean, good luck sniping 24W T8 knights to death... lol

The problem is they change the way you play. Characters are forced into hiding behind line of sight, so they cannot provide their aura buffs. Trying to take out a Vindicare often requires a commitment of higher than the 85 points that the Vindicare is. Yet, if you ignore the Vindicare, over 5 or 6 turns, it can make more than its points back if it kills two characters. And three Vindicare ... may end up killing all of your characters. BTW, trying to shoot a Vindicare to death is kinda a futile exercise. It has character rules anyway, so its unlikely to be that exposed in front. That sniper rifle has range of 72 inches after all...

Competitive 40k is just ... not fun. People bring lists which are not fun to play against. Oh well, We can bring cypher and have our own Vindicares. I suppose it might be interesting to have a Vindicare vs Vindicare war against such people and see how they like having a taste of their own medicine. lol I just thought of another relatively simple way to sort of counter Vindicare. Have your heroes in Rhinos. They can't shoot stuff in Rhinos. And if you come out of the Rhinos and are in combat already, then they can't shoot you either because you are in combat. The other way is to take Raptorial host and have your heroes all in jump packs. Deep strike in, charge the Vindicares on a 7 inch charge and kill them though the old fashioned way. (I am assuming raptorial host really works on all jump pack units including jump pack heroes.). Of course, this requires that you kill off whatever possible bubble wrap that the imperium player might have before you deep strike in. The vindicare has a 1 in 6 chance of hitting you on overwatch. If he fails that overwatch, and you make the charge, your jump pack lord will probably paste him in close combat. (probably). Of course, the problem is if you are facing 3 VIndicare, and opponent is not dumb enough to put them all in one place, but spreads them out apart. Your warlord trait from raptorial host can only affect one area...

Sigh, this bring me back to my original point. One Vindicare can be handled. Three Vindicares will involve so much changing of your list and playing in a very specific way. If done right, opponent has wasted 255 points bringing his 3 Vindicare which did nothing. Yet, if you ignore that and just play a normal list, there is a very high chance those 3 vindicares kill far more than their 255 points in characters.



This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2019/03/24 05:58:36


 
   
Made in fr
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver





@Eldenfirefly : that's why you should always bring a skewed list in competitive play. Lord Discordant (Autocannon) with 3 Defilers and Renegade knight as backfield, 2 Lord Discordant (Baleflamer) with 2 Maulerfiends and 2 Venomcrawler won't care about these Vindicare. Not sayin' this is competitive, but at least it's a gatekeeper.

I think even single Vindicare will become meta anyway because of that stupidly cheap Shoot again strat, so we have to take them in consideration when list building.

Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Nym wrote:
@Eldenfirefly : that's why you should always bring a skewed list in competitive play. Lord Discordant (Autocannon) with 3 Defilers and Renegade knight as backfield, 2 Lord Discordant (Baleflamer) with 2 Maulerfiends and 2 Venomcrawler won't care about these Vindicare. Not sayin' this is competitive, but at least it's a gatekeeper.

I think even single Vindicare will become meta anyway because of that stupidly cheap Shoot again strat, so we have to take them in consideration when list building.

I feel like the whole summon vindicare for 1 Cp will gatekeep alot of armies that relied on charachters before.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Renegade knights suck. All those stratagems and warlord traits that make imperial knights good arent available to renegade knights.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not Online!!! wrote:
 Nym wrote:
@Eldenfirefly : that's why you should always bring a skewed list in competitive play. Lord Discordant (Autocannon) with 3 Defilers and Renegade knight as backfield, 2 Lord Discordant (Baleflamer) with 2 Maulerfiends and 2 Venomcrawler won't care about these Vindicare. Not sayin' this is competitive, but at least it's a gatekeeper.

I think even single Vindicare will become meta anyway because of that stupidly cheap Shoot again strat, so we have to take them in consideration when list building.

I feel like the whole summon vindicare for 1 Cp will gatekeep alot of armies that relied on charachters before.


Lots of armies rely on characters. Its built into the detachment system. Just about any detachment requires a character. The only armies that don't rely on characters are knight armies, and that's because their knights ARE the characters. We will see, if they are too strong, at some point they will get nerfed by GW. Even imperium soup is vulnerable to triple vindicare. I mean, look at all the 3W, 4W characters they run.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Eldenfirefly wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Nym wrote:
@Eldenfirefly : that's why you should always bring a skewed list in competitive play. Lord Discordant (Autocannon) with 3 Defilers and Renegade knight as backfield, 2 Lord Discordant (Baleflamer) with 2 Maulerfiends and 2 Venomcrawler won't care about these Vindicare. Not sayin' this is competitive, but at least it's a gatekeeper.

I think even single Vindicare will become meta anyway because of that stupidly cheap Shoot again strat, so we have to take them in consideration when list building.

I feel like the whole summon vindicare for 1 Cp will gatekeep alot of armies that relied on charachters before.


Lots of armies rely on characters. Its built into the detachment system. Just about any detachment requires a character. The only armies that don't rely on characters are knight armies, and that's because their knights ARE the characters. We will see, if they are too strong, at some point they will get nerfed by GW. Even imperium soup is vulnerable to triple vindicare. I mean, look at all the 3W, 4W characters they run.


With rely i mean actively rely, not just fielding as a tax.
That said hopefully they wont be as devastating.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

 Red Corsair wrote:
Spoiler:
 techsoldaten wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
 techsoldaten wrote:
Yes. And have Abaddon standing there for full re-rolls to hit, and a Cultist screen to make it hard to charge them. I've been playing a Black Legion gunline since the start of 8th edition, anything that increases the survivability or armor is a big deal.

However, Chaos just got a lot stronger as a mid-range army through all the new detachments and combos. Chaos armor is still outgunned by Dark Eldar (and sometimes Tau), Imperial Knights still have ways to wipe them out in a single round, and Ork hordes are nearly impossible to chew through quickly enough to avoid the charge.

Would have loved to see a detachment for Chaos armor that gives them more tactical depth. Looking at the Lord Dischordant and thinking what he can do to hordes. Looking at the Skull Altar and thinking about what a Bloodletter Bomb is now going to mean. Looking at the Daemonkin Ritualists and thinking what they are going to do to Dark Eldar.

Feels like these detachments are so points efficient, there's not going to be a reason for gunlines.


If I ever came across this castle with my triple doomscythe necrons I would blow my load immediately though 1CP to money shot your entire army for 3d3 mortal wounds would be such a niche hard counter


That would be an interesting matchup, the confidence of Necron players is delightful.

I wonder how those Doomscythes would fare against the response, 23 lascannons with full rerolls to hit? 3D3 typically will not kill a unit.


If your somehow packing 23 las canons around abbadon and that things aura then I'm definietly going to buy you a more accurate tape measuring device and or slap the scotch out of your hands

All kidding aside I wouldn't expect them to survive if 23 las canons were still there. It's 3d3 mortals to every unit within 3" range of any point they pick, not 3d3 total It's also only 450 points facing down basically an entire army in that scenario. I think the best shot that castle would have is by using that new crippling fire strat and trying to down one of the fliers before they could pop the strat. I just thought it would be a very unusual and funny situation.


Hehe... you would not be the first to do that. But it's not hard to deploy so that Abaddon's aura affects 30x CSMs, 2x Helbrutes, 3x Predators, 30x Cultists, a Heldrake and a DP (maxed out on lascannons.) And it leads to many funny games.

Dark Eldar, Imperial Knights and Orks pretty much ruined the Black Legion gunline I've been playing since the start of 8th edition. While I see a few things in the new releases that could make it viable again, I've been exploring mid-range lists for a while now and see more potential in the new detachments.

The Host Raptoral, Daemonkin Ritualists, Soulforged Pack and Legion of Skulls detachments all appeal to me. It's all still new and I'm working out the various combinations that can be fielded. Going to need to see points before I know which way I'm going.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone thought about the fact the Fallen have the Imperial keyword?

Wondering if this is a backdoor to allowing us to take Assassins.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/24 11:06:31


   
Made in de
Beast of Nurgle





Had another game against Dark Eldar this time.

I tried to buff my Oblits as best I could. So I made them Nurgle, brought a Gnarlmaw along (thus giving them +2 cover save, effectively ignoring the first 2 points of AP of any weapon). I parked a cheap Lord with them and had my MoP cast Cursed Earth and Infernal Power on them. A second Sorcerer cast Prescience on them.

They now had a 0+/4++, hit on 2s, re-rolling 1s to hit and wound as well as being able to fall back and still shoot/charge. They destroyed a unit each round! First turn they took out a Ravager, second turn they destroyed his Voidraven, third turn they destroyed a Raider.

Yes that is a lot of points sunken into this unit. But all of those parts also do something for the rest of my army. The MoP also buffed by Daemon Engines. The Chaos Lord also helped out my Plague Marines that were nearby. The Sorcerer also had Warp Time as a second power and used it to sling my Defiler across the board etc.

I have to say that it was very fun to play them that way and surprisingly viable. They have their old point costs in the new Codex. That has to be a typo. But if it isn't the Newblits are probably too stronk.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 techsoldaten wrote:

Has anyone thought about the fact the Fallen have the Imperial keyword?

Wondering if this is a backdoor to allowing us to take Assassins.




It was discussed 6(?) pages back. The consensus was that GW would faq that it couldn't be done. It's a pretty nice option though, but if it does get faq'd it'll be an annoying waste of time and money!
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: