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I see Black Legion and Renegade Characters get the battleforged trait (from the Vigilus FAQ) but couldn't spot the same in the CSM codex. Have I just missed it?

 lare2 wrote:
I see Black Legion and Renegade Characters get the battleforged trait (from the Vigilus FAQ) but couldn't spot the same in the CSM codex. Have I just missed it?

It's in the CSM errata but not in magenta. I think GW got confused by its own formatting guidelines. Probably because their own publication style guides are nowadays scattered between 21 different documents and versions

Snugiraffe wrote:

 lare2 wrote:
I see Black Legion and Renegade Characters get the battleforged trait (from the Vigilus FAQ) but couldn't spot the same in the CSM codex. Have I just missed it?

It's in the CSM errata but not in magenta. I think GW got confused by its own formatting guidelines. Probably because their own publication style guides are nowadays scattered between 21 different documents and versions

That's aweseome - thanks dude.

saint_red wrote:
Also I just realised that a MoP can summon and then occupy a Skull Altar. 16" +1 attack aura for <KHORNE DAEMON> units worth it? Could be hilarious with a unit of Possessed.

Sorry, this only applies if the Summoner is a Daemon - Skulltaker or a Bloodmaster, in other words.

MoP is a Daemon though right? Unless there's some thing about it being a Faction keyword?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
One big change that does somewhat hurt Oblits is that they have to roll new stats for their guns every time they shoot, so no rolling god numbers and then using Endless Cacophony to shoot again with the same stats. Same thing happened to Ork Lootas (they have to roll for number of shots each time they shoot, including with Showin' Off).

Am I reading right that you also roll the stats one by one? The way I’d play that is:
- Roll D3 + 6 Str.
- - Rolled less than you wanted? Decide now if you want to CRR or Mutated Invigoration it; you can’t wait until you know what rolls you get for AP and Damage. If AP & Damage are really important right now, think carefully. Okay, decision made, one way or the other, time to...
- Roll -D3 AP.
- - Rolled less than you wanted? Decide now if you want to CRR or Mutated Invigoration it; you can’t wait until you know what roll you get for Damage. If Damage is really important right now, think carefully. Used up your only reroll on Strength? Tough luck. Okay, decision made, one way or the other, time to...
- Roll D3 Damage.
- - Rolled less than you wanted? Decide now if you want to CRR or Mutated Invigoration it; you can’t wait until you know what rolls you get for AP and Damage. Used up your reroll/s on Strength and AP? Tough luck. Accepted poor rolls on Strength and AP because Damage is really important right now, and now rolled a natural 3? Tough luck, no going back.

This feels like a significant step back from how I played it before of rolling all three then picking what to reroll (was that even the right way to play it? Eh, it’s done). Buuut also an ok boost to MoP.


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saint_red wrote:
MoP is a Daemon though right? Unless there's some thing about it being a Faction keyword?

Not on any of my datasheets for him


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Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nobody is talking about the big nerf that Castellans received? Raise ion shields can now no longer buff invul save to better than a 4++. And Castellans are now 100 points more expensive. We may see less Castellans now in lists, and even those with them have 100 points less to play with, and the Castellans are slightly easier to destroy now.

This increases the viability of vehicles a lot more now. So, conversely, a daemon engine theme list just got stronger now because one of its biggest "counters" just got nerfed.

Combine this with legion traits applying to Characters now, so LD also got a buff. Daemon Engine lists are looking more and more interesting.

And the Plague Hulk now has Legion, so it can be taken in CSM detachments! I'm not sure it's worth it of course. It's like 50% more expensive than the defiler, but it's got t8, 5+++, and nice weapons.

.defiler does seem better. The Plague hulk does have the advantage that it can be summoned, with might have some synergy with MoP/ greater possessed.

Given that it’s so slow and unreliable in output, I can see arguments to advance MoP, be a Word Bearer or near a Gnarlmaw, and drop it in the enemy’s face. Proximity raises its threat level to be a functional Distraction Carnifex. (Assuming you survived going first with a couple of hundred points of distraction not yet existing)


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Not Online!!! wrote:

Has anyone tried out the MoP to summon after moving? I am wondering if it could be an option for the new Keeper of Secrets, as if you deploy her/him/it on the board T1 it's toast.

Depends on the PL you need to roll to summon the good thing.
Also you need to be slaanesh and or unaligned MoP wise.

It’s fairly reliable if you’re a Word Bearer. Again, this does entail starting with a load of points not yet existing.


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 mbkgacek wrote:
Hello everyone,

I'm more daemon player but started looking more into daemon engines now and daemonkin (to me it's still fluffy to mix them up but not with regular CSM) as well.

Yesterday having some practice game I started to think, is there any way (CP, spell, ability) to make vehicles explosion more possible? For example instead of it exploding on 6+ making it explode on 4+ for CP?

Sorry if someone has already asked for this and I'm bringing it up again.

Only if you’re Death Guard. I’ve used it to ok effect!


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 buddha wrote:
Wow legion traits applying to lord discordants is huge. AL versions become much more survivable. Red corsairs can yolo and advance and charge (even better in a soulforged detachment).

Word Bearers represent! None of my LDs gonna fail Morale now

Emperor’s Children Lords on Steeds with Murder Sword or Black Mace look a little interesting now. Especially if you can hug the victim with Fiends.

Ah he has a 5++ from "Daemonkin" but does not in fact have the Daemon keyword. Thanks for picking that up! The Greater Possesed does have the Daemon keyword and would be able to summon it , but I feel like none of the buffs are really worth it unless you are planning on summoning a lot more Khorne daemons, and they really want someone with the Locus hanging around.

saint_red wrote:
Ah he has a 5++ from "Daemonkin" but does not in fact have the Daemon keyword. Thanks for picking that up! The Greater Possesed does have the Daemon keyword and would be able to summon it , but I feel like none of the buffs are really worth it unless you are planning on summoning a lot more Khorne daemons, and they really want someone with the Locus hanging around.

Don’t forget that KHORNE DAEMON includes a lot of HA units. If a Bloodmaster runs forwards/is summoned T1 then drops an altar T2, this can benefit:
- a cavalcade of stompy Daemon Engines that moved up T1;
- a wing of Warp Talons dropping in T2;
- a Skullreaver Prince. (Not HA, but if you’re already including one Daemon HQ...)

Some nice combos to be had with Crimson Crown, as well. Especially with a LD, Prescience, Warp-Sight Plea... can near enough double a LoS or Kytan’s firepower.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
One big change that does somewhat hurt Oblits is that they have to roll new stats for their guns every time they shoot, so no rolling god numbers and then using Endless Cacophony to shoot again with the same stats. Same thing happened to Ork Lootas (they have to roll for number of shots each time they shoot, including with Showin' Off).

Am I reading right that you also roll the stats one by one? The way I’d play that is:
- Roll D3 + 6 Str.
- - Rolled less than you wanted? Decide now if you want to CRR or Mutated Invigoration it; you can’t wait until you know what rolls you get for AP and Damage. If AP & Damage are really important right now, think carefully. Okay, decision made, one way or the other, time to...
- Roll -D3 AP.
- - Rolled less than you wanted? Decide now if you want to CRR or Mutated Invigoration it; you can’t wait until you know what roll you get for Damage. If Damage is really important right now, think carefully. Used up your only reroll on Strength? Tough luck. Okay, decision made, one way or the other, time to...
- Roll D3 Damage.
- - Rolled less than you wanted? Decide now if you want to CRR or Mutated Invigoration it; you can’t wait until you know what rolls you get for AP and Damage. Used up your reroll/s on Strength and AP? Tough luck. Accepted poor rolls on Strength and AP because Damage is really important right now, and now rolled a natural 3? Tough luck, no going back.

This feels like a significant step back from how I played it before of rolling all three then picking what to reroll (was that even the right way to play it? Eh, it’s done). Buuut also an ok boost to MoP.

This has always been the case. In fact, the codex explicitly instructs you (as it did before) as to which order you're rolling the dice - S first, then AP, then damage.

 lindsay40k wrote:

saint_red wrote:
Ah he has a 5++ from "Daemonkin" but does not in fact have the Daemon keyword. Thanks for picking that up! The Greater Possesed does have the Daemon keyword and would be able to summon it , but I feel like none of the buffs are really worth it unless you are planning on summoning a lot more Khorne daemons, and they really want someone with the Locus hanging around.

Don’t forget that KHORNE DAEMON includes a lot of HA units. If a Bloodmaster runs forwards/is summoned T1 then drops an altar T2, this can benefit:
- a cavalcade of stompy Daemon Engines that moved up T1;
- a wing of Warp Talons dropping in T2;
- a Skullreaver Prince. (Not HA, but if you’re already including one Daemon HQ...)

Some nice combos to be had with Crimson Crown, as well. Especially with a LD, Prescience, Warp-Sight Plea... can near enough double a LoS or Kytan’s firepower.

I really want to make it work but I'm not sure the 100 points for the Altar + the points for the Altar-sitter is worth it. I love the image of it though, so I might have to get one to test it out. A BL bomb would definitely provide the most mileage from the +1A buff so that might be an option to look at.

While not hyper competitive I actually think summoning with WBs is kinda viable now. We have the option for a 4 dice summon with Incursion and of course the rerolls from the stratagem. The MoP with Possessed is a genuinely useful character anyway so you don't need to build your entire list around the concept either.

Quick one, is LD with -1 to hit comparable in survivability to the black legion half damage LD?

I had accepted I'd have to be BL to make the LD work but if not will probably go full alpha legion.

Although I'll miss the +1 attack BL strat :-(

My main gripe with the god-locking of renegades is that the Brazen Beasts, the ones who specialize in using Daemon Engines, cannot take a MoP. What is so terrifying floof wise about an unsigned psyker helping make/maintain them? You know, the primary unit for buffing daemon engines? FFS I'm tired of having to repaint my engines.

mrtomski wrote:
Quick one, is LD with -1 to hit comparable in survivability to the black legion half damage LD?

I had accepted I'd have to be BL to make the LD work but if not will probably go full alpha legion.

Although I'll miss the +1 attack BL strat :-(

Why not go half dmg and -1 to hit? A sorcerer on bike / jp can keep up and cast miasma easy enough.

 p5freak wrote:

 rayphoton wrote:
What is the build for this "Black Legion Chain Lord" I keep seeing pop up?

BL chaos lord with ghorisvex teeth relic chainsword from vigilus ablaze and flames of spite WLT, mark of khorne. You can use him on a bike, or with JP. Use VOTLW on him, and the dark apostle prayer soultearer portent for +2 to wound. You get 6 attacks hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1s. Any 4+ to wound will do 2 MW, in addition to normal damage. Use the khorne fight again stratagem to get more attacks. Possible variation is on juggernaut of khorne, you lose VOTLW, but you gain more attacks from the mount. Cast diabolic strength on him for another attack, replace his bolt pistol for another chainsword, for another attack, which only does 1 MW on a 4+ to wound.

Jiminy!

 Platuan4th wrote:

Niiru wrote:

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 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Where is the updated Cultist datasheet (and legion trait nerf) for us with the old codex?

I thought this would make it into the FAQs.

Cultists were changed? Havent seen any referance to this anywhere. And the Legion Trait nerf? Only thing I saw is it now gives a trait to Lords Discordant, which would seem to be a buff? What else have I missed lol.

Vigilus Ablaze and the updated CSM Codex have a rule that Cultists don't benefit from Legion Traits as well as lowering the max number of Cultists in a unit. Not sure why Nightlord thought they would make it into the FAQ, though.

Well, for one, GW said buying v2 of the codex wasnt necessary , so how would I even know about Mere Mortals or the cap on unit size to 30 models? I have Vigilus Ablaze, but mere mortals is only referenced to the Black Legion Detachment.

Much like they gave the new Greater Posessed and updated Obliterators datasheets online, I had assumed the new Cultist datasheet would have been released also.

Regarding shooting, with the cost increase of castellans and the slight nerf to Imperial Knights, would a double-avenger renegade become more viable in our lists?

It's somewhat less likely to be completely disrespected by a castellan or equivalent porphyrion....or is the lack of traits/stratagems still too much?

necrotekkie wrote:
Regarding shooting, with the cost increase of castellans and the slight nerf to Imperial Knights, would a double-avenger renegade become more viable in our lists?

It's somewhat less likely to be completely disrespected by a castellan or equivalent porphyrion....or is the lack of traits/stratagems still too much?

Someone offered to sell me 2 Castellans this morning for $90 total. Small sign of the sentiment towards this unit.

In theory, Renegade Knights improved relative to the points cost of their betters. Personally, I think Vigilus Ablaze did more for them, Soulforged Packs and Devastation Batteries mean RKs are not the only big threat on the table.

So I'd say they are more viable, but a lot depends on the list.

I would buy 2 castellens for 90$, even with the nerfs lol. But i think your right techsoldaten, it depends on your list to whats viable and feasible in your meta.

I was about to say, if you wanna split the castellens 1 a piece, I'll buy one from ya ^.~

Azuza001 wrote:
I would buy 2 castellens for 90$, even with the nerfs lol. But i think your right techsoldaten, it depends on your list to whats viable and feasible in your meta.

No, doubt rules change on a whim, but models are forever. Next FAQ they might be right back to being OP.

Did anyone see that Noise Marines got a nerf? If you die in combat they can no longer shoot out of it, pistols only now. Sad...

 Sersi wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I would buy 2 castellens for 90$, even with the nerfs lol. But i think your right techsoldaten, it depends on your list to whats viable and feasible in your meta.

No, doubt rules change on a whim, but models are forever. Next FAQ they might be right back to being OP.

Did anyone see that Noise Marines got a nerf? If you die in combat they can no longer shoot out of it, pistols only now. Sad...

Yes, models are forever. Eventually consuming all closet space, available storage, and patience of the significant other...

As delighted as I am to get some new, expensive models cheap, there's a part of me questioning what must go for them to have shelf space.

With the Noise Marines - how many times do they actually get into close combat? I'm okay with the nerf from the standpoint of "no one should be firing rifles in close combat, much less sniping other units."

I am really loving the change allowing legion traits to work on the LoD. He will be good with Alpha Legion for survivable, or Flawless Host, Red Corsairs, or World Eaters for CC stomping people. Purged might also be good (especially with the Nurgle healing). The only thing that sucks is he is not very useful against Aircraft, which I think will be even more present after this FAQ, (as they are the top list that took the least nerfs) but I guess you just use him to chew up everything else to prevent scoring as now you can at least move under Aircraft. I think you will see at least two of these guys in most competitive Chaos lists.

Love my Noise Marines. Perfectly happy for them to have a streamlined rule. Perfectly happy that their heavy gunners don’t become snipers whenever they get punched in the face.

How are World Eaters Lord Discordant any good? There are way better ways to get an extra attack. Not having psykers sucks, trust me.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Love my Noise Marines. Perfectly happy for them to have a streamlined rule. Perfectly happy that their heavy gunners don’t become snipers whenever they get punched in the face.

Did they fix it?
Finally


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 techsoldaten wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I would buy 2 castellens for 90$, even with the nerfs lol. But i think your right techsoldaten, it depends on your list to whats viable and feasible in your meta.

No, doubt rules change on a whim, but models are forever. Next FAQ they might be right back to being OP.

Did anyone see that Noise Marines got a nerf? If you die in combat they can no longer shoot out of it, pistols only now. Sad...

Yes, models are forever. Eventually consuming all closet space, available storage, and patience of the significant other...

As delighted as I am to get some new, expensive models cheap, there's a part of me questioning what must go for them to have shelf space.

With the Noise Marines - how many times do they actually get into close combat? I'm okay with the nerf from the standpoint of "no one should be firing rifles in close combat, much less sniping other units."

I probably will get 1, a drill, a saw and a lot of cables and daemon bits to finaly make my cable daemon project happen

Sokhar wrote:
Huge buff to the Lord Dischordant to get access to Legion traits. Flawless Host will have him triggering Death to the Imperfect on a 5+ even without any other boosts. The Flawless Host Prince we discussed earlier will actually get outperformed by such a Lord.

If he reaches CC. He's 12W and therefore targetable by anything all the time. I personally prefer my "tank" build: Black Legion LD with Indomitable and Mark of Nurgle/ Slaanesh for Miasma or Delightful Agonies. Use Sightless Helm to give him more bite in a scrap. More than enough punch while being resilient enough to actually have a chance to survive a turn. Leave the glass cannon builds for Daemon Princes and Smashlords who have the sub-10W character protection.

Question: What ways are there to get rerolls to-wound at a distance?

I've got a Master of Possessions casting that one power with Oblits or Daemon Engines, and... That's about it.

CSM don't have a lieutenant equivalent unfortunately. The only other wound rerol at distance I can think of is daemonforge on a shooting Daemon engine

Abaddon303 wrote:
CSM don't have a lieutenant equivalent unfortunately. The only other wound rerol at distance I can think of is daemonforge on a shooting Daemon engine

Ah, I did forget about that. Thank you.

Pandabeer wrote:

Sokhar wrote:
Huge buff to the Lord Dischordant to get access to Legion traits. Flawless Host will have him triggering Death to the Imperfect on a 5+ even without any other boosts. The Flawless Host Prince we discussed earlier will actually get outperformed by such a Lord.

If he reaches CC. He's 12W and therefore targetable by anything all the time. I personally prefer my "tank" build: Black Legion LD with Indomitable and Mark of Nurgle/ Slaanesh for Miasma or Delightful Agonies. Use Sightless Helm to give him more bite in a scrap. More than enough punch while being resilient enough to actually have a chance to survive a turn. Leave the glass cannon builds for Daemon Princes and Smashlords who have the sub-10W character protection.

Exactly. Thats how i run mine. Works perfectly fine.

I do Indomitable and Nurgle for miasma + papa nurgles special strat for healing an additional d3 wounds when it does get hurt. Sorcerers are more than capable of keeping up with this guy as needed, either a bike build which i prefer (not infantry, suck it vindicar) or jump pack. That leaves misasma to drop onto something else annoying like a defiler or giant blob of marines (i still find black legion marines to be quite useful in a squad of 20. They can advance and shoot if needed, can be warp timed if even more speed is needed, and once in cover its a huge pain to remove 20 2+/5+++ single wound marines all while unloading using vets of the long war to actually do some work).