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Hmmm, something to bear in mind. So the deny is definitely not a given to go off. I think he has two separate strategems from sisters, dark angels and iron hands to outright deny a psychic though (but probably on a 4+).
Anyone has good suggestions for a character killer hunter? I know there is the relic chainsword lord, but that requires making him the warlord and he will most likely die after he kills one of the Dark angels speedster heroes. (He might even die to the overwatch from all those assault cannons charging in). DP is good, but expensive for a suicide hero killer. These Dark angel speedster heroes will always be behind his own troop lines, using the hero rule to make them untargetable. And then they jump into my lines, fire all their assault cannons, charge in and kill something, and then use the vigilence ablaze strategem to jump back behind their own lines again before I can even strike back.
DarklyDreaming wrote: Wayniac I totally feel you. I too was cheated by GW choosing BL because of the color scheme (at first legions were just a little perk, nothing game changing, so you could actually choose one out of personal preference, for fun, good times... ) and then turning out to be the weakest of all not even 6 months later. And I too hate to soup. The good news is that actually every other chaos legion now is a solid mid tier by itself!
My Chainlord strongly disagrees with this analysis.
An ALJP stealth lord can be -5 to hit for ranged weapons with clandestine, shadeblade, miasma of pestilence, benediction of darkness, AL legion trait, or -3 to hit in melee. He can also be a sniper with headhunter and vipers bite. The gun is S5 AP-3 D2.
Eldenfirefly wrote: (And since you are running mono black legion, you can consider adding a Norlitih crown too). An Abby gunline is rather static anyway, so it benefits alot from the Crown. Cos the crown gives an ever expanding huge aura of 5++ and makes your psykers better. All your lascannons (be it from vehicles like predator tanks or hacos)) will appreciate the 5++ the crown gives. And so will your troops. A big blob of thirty 5++ cultists that are immune to morale because of Abby and have 5+ FNP because of delightful agonies is pretty resilient and dirt cheap too.
The other thing to realize about the crown: good source of cover and you control where it's placed.
Stick 3 Scorpius' behind it for indirect fire, or put 3 Contemptors behind it to take advantage of the hole in the middle for shooting.
I've learned to love the Crown as part of a Chaos gunline. By the time an opponent could charge, my entire army has a 5+ invulnerable. And I can stick it adjacent to a building to create impassible choke points. It's so frustrating.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/20 12:03:31
And thanks, you are one of the few that gave some suggestions to handle the two Dark angel speeder character shenanigens. I do have to point out though, that warp time can't be relied on. Sisters get a deny the witch roll easily. And they get strategems to deny outright the psychic as well. So, he can try to deny first, then start using strategems to further try and negate warptime. Warptime has very little chance of going off.
It does seem to be one of the only ways though, so I will have to think further about this. Even though I loath to trade a flying demon prince for one of his characters. (Once I jump in, even if I kill it, it will be in the midst of his army and likely to be killed). And of course, the method is by no means a gaurantee to kill either because he will have a 4++ save. So, if he is lucky enough to make all the saves, I would have failed to kill him and sacrificed a flying DP for it. (And he has two of these speedster characters). Even the overwatch suffered charging into such a character is going to be painful.
As pointed out earlier, they can’t stop warp time with their normal squads since the power needs a 7 to go off. They can try to ignore it on a 4+ but that’s not a given. You could try to draw it out with another power first though. You may have to eat one turn of the charges but that should still leave you well within the 12” plus charge of any flying unit. It may be a one way trip but exchanging units can be worth it if it’s an important part of their strategy. For what it’s worth, Sammael is over 200 points so you are coming out ahead with that exchange. A demon prince charging with talons and VotLW has a decent chance of putting him down even with the 4++.
A cheaper alternative is a jump lord with the murder sword. The murder sword deals a mortal wound against a model you choose for every hit you get. You’ll get 5 attacks on the charge that hit on rerolling 2s and immediately cause a wound. DTTFE can generate more attacks. If you keep a bolt pistol on him he can use the demon shells stratagem to deal another d3 mortal wounds. Diabolic strength or prescience makes him even better. This route is cheaper but a little riskier.
From the sound of it though, they’re using a specialist detachment and should have to pay 1CP to even access the strategem, which costs two. Denying your power requires anywhere from 1 to 2 CP. He should be hemorrhaging CP to keep this working. Alpha Legion can access a relic to make stratagems cost an extra CP for one round. He also looses out on his super doctrine for the SM forces since they’re souped in.
And thanks, you are one of the few that gave some suggestions to handle the two Dark angel speeder character shenanigens. I do have to point out though, that warp time can't be relied on. Sisters get a deny the witch roll easily. And they get strategems to deny outright the psychic as well. So, he can try to deny first, then start using strategems to further try and negate warptime. Warptime has very little chance of going off.
It does seem to be one of the only ways though, so I will have to think further about this. Even though I loath to trade a flying demon prince for one of his characters. (Once I jump in, even if I kill it, it will be in the midst of his army and likely to be killed). And of course, the method is by no means a gaurantee to kill either because he will have a 4++ save. So, if he is lucky enough to make all the saves, I would have failed to kill him and sacrificed a flying DP for it. (And he has two of these speedster characters). Even the overwatch suffered charging into such a character is going to be painful.
No offense, but you may be making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Order of the Valorous Heart allows you to ignore AP-1. That means they still need to make a 3+ save. The Imagifier allows them to ignore AP-2. They still need to make a 3+ save. If they are behind cover, it's a little tougher, but it's not impossible to chew through them with ordinary shooting and melee. You don't need too many fancy guns, you just need much guns.
Chaincannons could help. If you really want to screw with Sisters, take Scorpius Whirlwinds from the Forgeworld Index. Indirect fire, tons of shots, regenerates wounds, deletes units. Weapons are AP-2, just aim it at anything not standing near an Imagifier.
The Dark Angels characters - I really don't play them often so I can't speak to whatever is needed to destroy them, but DPs don't go down easy under the best of circumstances. If you can't buff him, take a relic so your opponent can't deny. This sounds like a job for the Axe of Blind Fury.
And thanks, you are one of the few that gave some suggestions to handle the two Dark angel speeder character shenanigens. I do have to point out though, that warp time can't be relied on. Sisters get a deny the witch roll easily. And they get strategems to deny outright the psychic as well. So, he can try to deny first, then start using strategems to further try and negate warptime. Warptime has very little chance of going off.
It does seem to be one of the only ways though, so I will have to think further about this. Even though I loath to trade a flying demon prince for one of his characters. (Once I jump in, even if I kill it, it will be in the midst of his army and likely to be killed). And of course, the method is by no means a gaurantee to kill either because he will have a 4++ save. So, if he is lucky enough to make all the saves, I would have failed to kill him and sacrificed a flying DP for it. (And he has two of these speedster characters). Even the overwatch suffered charging into such a character is going to be painful.
No offense, but you may be making this more complicated than it needs to be.
Order of the Valorous Heart allows you to ignore AP-1. That means they still need to make a 3+ save. The Imagifier allows them to ignore AP-2. They still need to make a 3+ save. If they are behind cover, it's a little tougher, but it's not impossible to chew through them with ordinary shooting and melee. You don't need too many fancy guns, you just need much guns.
Chaincannons could help. If you really want to screw with Sisters, take Scorpius Whirlwinds from the Forgeworld Index. Indirect fire, tons of shots, regenerates wounds, deletes units. Weapons are AP-2, just aim it at anything not standing near an Imagifier.
The Dark Angels characters - I really don't play them often so I can't speak to whatever is needed to destroy them, but DPs don't go down easy under the best of circumstances. If you can't buff him, take a relic so your opponent can't deny. This sounds like a job for the Axe of Blind Fury.
Yeah sisters still die to mass bolter fire easy. Take bikes or terminators or snipe out the imagifier with psychic or sniper lord. Either way they are still only t3 3+.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/21 17:07:05
small_gods wrote: Yeah sisters still die to mass bolter fire easy. Take bikes or terminators or snipe out the imagifier with psychic or sniper lord. Either way they are still only t3 3+.
I don't have a high opinion of Sisters to begin with, their gimmicks get too much attention. They're a mid-range army that is heavily reliant on buffs and special characters to do anything.
I've played 3 games vs the new Codex and dominated them each time. With my Daemon Primarch list, Mortarion and Magnus survived all game. The Primarchs were eating SOB squads while the Sicaran blew up their tanks and Plaguebearers spread out over all objectives. With my Black Legion gunline, the first time vs Sisters, it took my opponent 3 turns to get close enough to shoot. Meanwhile, I had 3 Scorpius Whirlwinds and 16+ lascannons bearing down on them. Abaddon and a Daemon Prince smacked down all of their HQs in a single turn.
Dark Eldar, Imperial Knights and NuMarines are a threat in this meta. Sisters are not the same.
Been trying to find a way to fit my favourite 20 man noise marine bomb into an emperor's children list, any idea on how to keep them alive or tactical advice in general?
I'm in a intercessor heavy meta and need the +1 St & Dg strat so no alpha legion conceal unfortunately, could the EC redeploy strat work in some way i'm too stupid to think of?
I'm also open to 10-man squads all redeploying but staying in the dark apostle re-roll wounds bubble if you think this is viable?
small_gods wrote: Yeah sisters still die to mass bolter fire easy. Take bikes or terminators or snipe out the imagifier with psychic or sniper lord. Either way they are still only t3 3+.
I don't have a high opinion of Sisters to begin with, their gimmicks get too much attention. They're a mid-range army that is heavily reliant on buffs and special characters to do anything.
I've played 3 games vs the new Codex and dominated them each time. With my Daemon Primarch list, Mortarion and Magnus survived all game. The Primarchs were eating SOB squads while the Sicaran blew up their tanks and Plaguebearers spread out over all objectives. With my Black Legion gunline, the first time vs Sisters, it took my opponent 3 turns to get close enough to shoot. Meanwhile, I had 3 Scorpius Whirlwinds and 16+ lascannons bearing down on them. Abaddon and a Daemon Prince smacked down all of their HQs in a single turn.
Dark Eldar, Imperial Knights and NuMarines are a threat in this meta. Sisters are not the same.
Yeah it's Orks and space wolves all over again. I think tau are going to come up big too. They've always been good but using some of their new stuff makes mincemeat of numarines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/22 17:48:58
Has anyone used cult marines to any noticeable effect in the legions that they are not automatically associated with (TS, WE, DG, EC)? I was thinking of putting some berserkers, PM, and rubrics in Iron Warriors and Word Bearers armies.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Has anyone used cult marines to any noticeable effect in the legions that they are not automatically associated with (TS, WE, DG, EC)? I was thinking of putting some berserkers, PM, and rubrics in Iron Warriors and Word Bearers armies.
Al loves them,
PM for durability, rubrics for shenanigans, berzerkers absolutely love the movement shenanigans.
Noisemarines really need their legion specific buffs.
NL can Setup a decent one two combo i guess.
WB prefer possessed over any cultmarine
IW prefer cult of destruction Units.
Renegades, cue red corsairs, Like berzerkers for obvious reasons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/23 09:37:07
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
DarklyDreaming wrote: Wayniac I totally feel you. I too was cheated by GW choosing BL because of the color scheme (at first legions were just a little perk, nothing game changing, so you could actually choose one out of personal preference, for fun, good times... ) and then turning out to be the weakest of all not even 6 months later. And I too hate to soup. The good news is that actually every other chaos legion now is a solid mid tier by itself!
My Chainlord strongly disagrees with this analysis.
My Indomitable Discolord with Sightless Helm as well.
Anyway, a paintjob won't stop you from playing another legion if you feel like it. And if you do feel bad about it: remember that the Black Legion is a loose alliance of CSM from every Traitor Legion out there. It makes perfect fluff sense to play a Black Legion warband that traces back it's origins to the Iron Warriors with Iron Warriors rules.
DarklyDreaming wrote: Wayniac I totally feel you. I too was cheated by GW choosing BL because of the color scheme (at first legions were just a little perk, nothing game changing, so you could actually choose one out of personal preference, for fun, good times... ) and then turning out to be the weakest of all not even 6 months later. And I too hate to soup. The good news is that actually every other chaos legion now is a solid mid tier by itself!
My Chainlord strongly disagrees with this analysis.
My Indomitable Discolord with Sightless Helm as well.
Anyway, a paintjob won't stop you from playing another legion if you feel like it. And if you do feel bad about it: remember that the Black Legion is a loose alliance of CSM from every Traitor Legion out there. It makes perfect fluff sense to play a Black Legion warband that traces back it's origins to the Iron Warriors with Iron Warriors rules.
But if you want to use Night Lords rules you. Must. Paint. The lightning.
It's like getting jumped into a gang. No pain. No gain.
orangebrushminiatures wrote: Been trying to find a way to fit my favourite 20 man noise marine bomb into an emperor's children list, any idea on how to keep them alive or tactical advice in general?
I'm in a intercessor heavy meta and need the +1 St & Dg strat so no alpha legion conceal unfortunately, could the EC redeploy strat work in some way i'm too stupid to think of?
I'm also open to 10-man squads all redeploying but staying in the dark apostle re-roll wounds bubble if you think this is viable?
Noise Marine bombs, in general, scare me. Too fragile and very tempting target.
Tactical Perfection only allows you to redeploy as per the mission rules. There's no way to infiltrate using it. The best thing you can hope for is to conceal the unit behind a building or get some cover.
Got a bit of a concept to test, after my little experiment wiht the noctilith (didn't go badly actually, noctilith + cultists = amusingly good, BUT,Remembered there is that one prayer that also grants you an 5++)
Which is what triggered this, for a small scale escalation league.
Spoiler:
AL Battalion:
Dark apostle, (ilusion prayer) Cultleader.
Sorcerer, Prescience, excess (5+++ spell from slaanesh) Head hunter or Master of diversion + CB relic.
Troops:
2 x 10 Cultists with stubber.
1 x 30 Cultists with 3 stubbers.
5 Havocs 4 AC and PG.
Clocks in at around 493 pts.
As a concept, the army is fairly mobile and durable with stratagems.
Tide of traitors is in essence another 100 ish points.
Renascent infiltration , conceal, etc make for a descent utility base.
Cacophony and Votwl can make the havocs or the blob of cultists dangerous. (cult leader )
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Not Online!!! wrote: Got a bit of a concept to test, after my little experiment wiht the noctilith (didn't go badly actually, noctilith + cultists = amusingly good, BUT,Remembered there is that one prayer that also grants you an 5++)
Which is what triggered this, for a small scale escalation league.
Spoiler:
AL Battalion:
Dark apostle, (ilusion prayer) Cultleader.
Sorcerer, Prescience, excess (5+++ spell from slaanesh) Head hunter or Master of diversion + CB relic.
Troops:
2 x 10 Cultists with stubber.
1 x 30 Cultists with 3 stubbers.
5 Havocs 4 AC and PG.
Clocks in at around 493 pts.
As a concept, the army is fairly mobile and durable with stratagems.
Tide of traitors is in essence another 100 ish points.
Renascent infiltration , conceal, etc make for a descent utility base.
Cacophony and Votwl can make the havocs or the blob of cultists dangerous. (cult leader )
I like it, think it could scale up well with more cultists, hancocks and even predators could find a place (you'd probably need 2-3 crowns though).
So i've recently started delving more into chaos to have more variety than with my pure thousand sons.
I've had lots of fun playing tzeentch demons (flamers for life) and even more recently started playing a slaanesh demon supreme command (Contorted epitome for life)
Now i've got in in my mind to actually start a small Night lords list because i like the converting options with them and all the tricks faith and fury gave them. Ive got some warp talons + smash lord but i feel like i'm missing some punch in combat. What are good melee units that would benefit from warp talons giving them safe charges?
Right now i've tried this for a NL detachment :
Chaos lord with jetpack + hammer
2 butcher cannon contemptors
10 warp talons
5 termies with power axes
VladimirHerzog wrote: So i've recently started delving more into chaos to have more variety than with my pure thousand sons.
I've had lots of fun playing tzeentch demons (flamers for life) and even more recently started playing a slaanesh demon supreme command (Contorted epitome for life)
Now i've got in in my mind to actually start a small Night lords list because i like the converting options with them and all the tricks faith and fury gave them. Ive got some warp talons + smash lord but i feel like i'm missing some punch in combat. What are good melee units that would benefit from warp talons giving them safe charges?
Right now i've tried this for a NL detachment :
Chaos lord with jetpack + hammer
2 butcher cannon contemptors
10 warp talons
5 termies with power axes
Bloodletters are a great choice to mix in with warptalons. Take units of 20 with banner, you get to deepstrike for 1 cp and still hit on 2+. Other than that cam have some great daemon prince/lord discordant beatsticks but they don't care as much about overwatch.
VladimirHerzog wrote: So i've recently started delving more into chaos to have more variety than with my pure thousand sons.
I've had lots of fun playing tzeentch demons (flamers for life) and even more recently started playing a slaanesh demon supreme command (Contorted epitome for life)
Now i've got in in my mind to actually start a small Night lords list because i like the converting options with them and all the tricks faith and fury gave them. Ive got some warp talons + smash lord but i feel like i'm missing some punch in combat. What are good melee units that would benefit from warp talons giving them safe charges?
Right now i've tried this for a NL detachment :
Chaos lord with jetpack + hammer
2 butcher cannon contemptors
10 warp talons
5 termies with power axes
Bloodletters are a great choice to mix in with warptalons. Take units of 20 with banner, you get to deepstrike for 1 cp and still hit on 2+. Other than that cam have some great daemon prince/lord discordant beatsticks but they don't care as much about overwatch.
yeah bloodletters are great, anything similar in actual CSM? berzerkers in rhinos maybe?
VladimirHerzog wrote: So i've recently started delving more into chaos to have more variety than with my pure thousand sons.
I've had lots of fun playing tzeentch demons (flamers for life) and even more recently started playing a slaanesh demon supreme command (Contorted epitome for life)
Now i've got in in my mind to actually start a small Night lords list because i like the converting options with them and all the tricks faith and fury gave them. Ive got some warp talons + smash lord but i feel like i'm missing some punch in combat. What are good melee units that would benefit from warp talons giving them safe charges?
Right now i've tried this for a NL detachment :
Chaos lord with jetpack + hammer
2 butcher cannon contemptors
10 warp talons
5 termies with power axes
Bloodletters are a great choice to mix in with warptalons. Take units of 20 with banner, you get to deepstrike for 1 cp and still hit on 2+. Other than that cam have some great daemon prince/lord discordant beatsticks but they don't care as much about overwatch.
yeah bloodletters are great, anything similar in actual CSM? berzerkers in rhinos maybe?
Bezerkers are great but squishy, plus there's a rhino tax and good players can screen them out well. Possessed are great but work best with AL conceal strat, master of possession and dark apostle. You could run them as night lords at a pinch though and combine them with some daemon auras (slanesh and nurgle being my favorites).
What do you guys think about Havocs? I'm thinking of dropping them for more oblits or terminators. They don't really seem to do much to warrant their high point cost and the return on killing their fragile bodies is pretty big. 5 more points gets 5x chainaxe combi plasma terminators who can melee, deepstrike and put out 10 plasma shots on top of being more durable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/25 19:35:12
Ahriman [7 PL, 131pts]: Death Hex, Gift of Chaos, Warptime
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 195pts]: Arcane Focus, Devastating Sorcery, Infernal Gaze, Malefic talon, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Warlord, Wings
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 195pts]: Gaze of Fate, Infernal Gateway, Malefic talon, Wings
++ Total: [116 PL, -2CP, 1,994pts] ++
the idea is simple anything sprint forward, drake and bikes try to engage 1st turn and use Vox Scream and we have come for you, not sure if worth use a SL demons detachement ,or use a more resilient nurgle detachment with nurglings and poxbringers, maybe double dragon?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/02/25 20:41:24
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Tibs Ironblood wrote: What do you guys think about Havocs? I'm thinking of dropping them for more oblits or terminators. They don't really seem to do much to warrant their high point cost and the return on killing their fragile bodies is pretty big. 5 more points gets 5x chainaxe combi plasma terminators who can melee, deepstrike and put out 10 plasma shots on top of being more durable.
I'm trying out Alpha Legion Havocs, maybe backed up by a Crown. We'll see how it goes.
with all the bonus ot hit and re rolls i saw marines have, just a -1 to hit and a ti 5++ isn't enough
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/25 21:40:09
3rd place league tournament
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2nd place league tournament
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3rd place league
tournament
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3rd place league tournament
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1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
orangebrushminiatures wrote: Been trying to find a way to fit my favourite 20 man noise marine bomb into an emperor's children list, any idea on how to keep them alive or tactical advice in general?
I'm in a intercessor heavy meta and need the +1 St & Dg strat so no alpha legion conceal unfortunately, could the EC redeploy strat work in some way i'm too stupid to think of?
I'm also open to 10-man squads all redeploying but staying in the dark apostle re-roll wounds bubble if you think this is viable?
I’m working towards deploying twenty in a Kharybdis. Hit it with -1 prayer, deploy with a crown. Non deteriorating movement means that as long as it survives t1, it’s getting Warptimed into my opponent’s FACE whilst the inhabitants steal 3” from the disembarkation.
ArcaneHorror wrote: Has anyone used cult marines to any noticeable effect in the legions that they are not automatically associated with (TS, WE, DG, EC)? I was thinking of putting some berserkers, PM, and rubrics in Iron Warriors and Word Bearers armies.
Al loves them,
PM for durability, rubrics for shenanigans, berzerkers absolutely love the movement shenanigans.
Noisemarines really need their legion specific buffs.
NL can Setup a decent one two combo i guess.
WB prefer possessed over any cultmarine
IW prefer cult of destruction Units.
Renegades, cue red corsairs, Like berzerkers for obvious reasons.
I do like NMs and Zerks with my Word Bearers. Being able to force-cast a spell opens some interesting combos. But yeah, the opportunity cost is not taking Possessed, who benefit from that quirk far more on account of DAEMON.
The various things that enable you to embargos fall back are interesting. If you can set it up right, a Berzerker tarpit is terrifying.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/26 02:54:37
I might just be cursed but the whole must fail first to make it auto succeed thing has really not worked.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Not Online!!! wrote: Got a bit of a concept to test, after my little experiment wiht the noctilith (didn't go badly actually, noctilith + cultists = amusingly good, BUT,Remembered there is that one prayer that also grants you an 5++)
Which is what triggered this, for a small scale escalation league.
Spoiler:
AL Battalion:
Dark apostle, (ilusion prayer) Cultleader.
Sorcerer, Prescience, excess (5+++ spell from slaanesh) Head hunter or Master of diversion + CB relic.
Troops:
2 x 10 Cultists with stubber.
1 x 30 Cultists with 3 stubbers.
5 Havocs 4 AC and PG.
Clocks in at around 493 pts.
As a concept, the army is fairly mobile and durable with stratagems.
Tide of traitors is in essence another 100 ish points.
Renascent infiltration , conceal, etc make for a descent utility base.
Cacophony and Votwl can make the havocs or the blob of cultists dangerous. (cult leader )
I like it, think it could scale up well with more cultists, hancocks and even predators could find a place (you'd probably need 2-3 crowns though).
I still prefer R&H units for the noctilith crown use.
However if i would use it in the same style list with 2 crowns 12" from board sides, with this you allready cover most of your deployment zone by turn 2.
I'd also lower the max squad down to 10 man squads. ( probably 6 x 10 cultists with stubbers, 2 DA's with atleast one cultleader at that stage i'd also use master of diversion. I'd also use a lord and sorcerer for the full 2 battalions. Probably also invest in the full 3x AC Havocs.) Also, +1 to hit prayer instead. Predators might work, altough i am at a point were i regard the dakkafiend as a superior option, that said, due to the 5++ bubble i could imagine some Vindicators for that. Bikers actually would become hillarious in such a list. -1 to hit, t5 multiple wounds, allways on bolter discipline and now a 5++ aswell as mobility option.
In general i feel like such a build with a skeleton core of cultists, 2 noctiliths, would make a horde list with heavy firesupport quite possible. in a 1000 pts list, i'd honestly add in 2 crowns, another Da a lord ofcourse as above and then a vindicator or 2.
Is it good enough for a new archetype, i dobut it, but maybee, considering i also made surprising experiences with my test runs so it might actually be decent enough curveball for a semi comp meta.
Automatically Appended Next Post: in lieu of the Sm nerf.
MAybee need to adapt my sig, again
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/27 14:15:55
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Just found out about the SM nerf. Read it and thought: this doesn't hurt any of the armies I've played against. If anything, it helps them against Chaos.
When I'm playing Daemon Primarchs, I would much rather have Devastator doctrine up than Tactical. Now they are forced to switch turn 2, that's a net benefit. Same with Chaos gunlines, most things that would benefit from Devastator are dead by turn 2.
Same with Intercessors tanking wounds for vehicles. We have a lot of D2+ weapons, it's actually worse for us to have more Intercessors on the board because anything over 2W wasted damage.
The Dreadnought Stratagem, yeah, that's a nerf, but did anyone expect unwoundable dreadnoughts to survive a FAQ? Or infiltrating Centurions? Have not faced either but those would have been tempting for anyone to do away with.
techsoldaten wrote: Just found out about the SM nerf. Read it and thought: this doesn't hurt any of the armies I've played against. If anything, it helps them against Chaos.
When I'm playing Daemon Primarchs, I would much rather have Devastator doctrine up than Tactical. Now they are forced to switch turn 2, that's a net benefit. Same with Chaos gunlines, most things that would benefit from Devastator are dead by turn 2.
Same with Intercessors tanking wounds for vehicles. We have a lot of D2+ weapons, it's actually worse for us to have more Intercessors on the board because anything over 2W wasted damage.
The Dreadnought Stratagem, yeah, that's a nerf, but did anyone expect unwoundable dreadnoughts to survive a FAQ? Or infiltrating Centurions? Have not faced either but those would have been tempting for anyone to do away with.
I guess, in a way it forces them to vomit more AP-1 bolt shells down at us. So yes in a way. Otoh, vehicle based lists do proft a tad from that. (if your vehicles survive that is)
What is for sure it certainly hits only IH and IF.
As for the RG shenanigans, yes but so long a dread can still do that i find the argumentation give questionable.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
