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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hmm.

Hoping we retain the ability to ‘adopt’ units from IG, as we can in the index. I’ve got three Manticores I want to use!

Pretty sure that was covered at the weekender and should definitely still be a thing.

Woooo!

Dirty sneaky first turn destruction, with added ‘find the Lady’!

I would place a bet with pretty much any odds that either the Primus or the new planner dude with the map will have some kind of ability as standard that gives you more reliable charges than 9" on 2d6 out of deep strike.

Will it be as good as the current 6 result? I'm guessing not. Will it come with the bonus of avoiding the current "womp womp" 1 result on the table as it exists now? Yes.

Blip thing also makes me more confident about the Kelermorph getting a chance to do his funky thang.

And if your opponent thinks he’s out there, lurking, they may keep their characters a healthy distance away from the Blips.

Hmmm.

the_scotsman wrote:
I would place a bet with pretty much any odds that either the Primus or the new planner dude with the map will have some kind of ability as standard that gives you more reliable charges than 9" on 2d6 out of deep strike.

Will it be as good as the current 6 result? I'm guessing not. Will it come with the bonus of avoiding the current "womp womp" 1 result on the table as it exists now? Yes.

I might be wrong on this but hasn't it already been mentioned somewhere that the Nexos guy with the map lets you move the blips? Can't remember whether thats a debunked rumour or not.

I think that was from the false leak, Imateria. I don't think any reliable source has told use what he actually does. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, though. I'm really curious as to what he does.

@Mad Doc Grotsnik:

Since we have to flip on Turn 1 either way, I'm not sure the blips will do much to effect how an opponent screens his characters.

Being able to guarantee him a 9" drop with a 12" gun anywhere on the table should motivate opponent's to be a bit more deliberate in their screening, doubly so with the potential assassain value of the Jackal Alphus and the Sanctus in concert.

Going from the preview, I'm wondering how this works. So assume you have 12 units in your army allowing you to put 6 "underground" to come on using Cult Ambush. You can deploy the rest "in ambush" and put 6 blips on the table instead of models. You then use "Scanner Decoys" to put down four blips instead of one for a unit. Giving you nine blips total. Once you start revealing blips you can then use "They came from below" to put up to three more units into "underground" status. Your three remaining units then deploy from three of the remaining blips, giving you six decoy blips with 9 units in "underground" for (I'm assuming) 2nd round deepstrike ambush.

Will the stratagem actually allow GSC to bypass the half units/points off the table for game start rule? So far we haven't seen anything that says a character cannot join a unit when coming from "underground" like the old cult assault rules. Allowing your opponent to go first to chase down decoy blips, ambush from the safest blips, then use the stratagem to ensure your Abominant and Aberrant bomb gets a d6 (with CP re-roll) movement before turn two assault. Still don't know what other strategems are out there. Seems pretty nice though. I'm liking it.

Reread "They Come From Below". You remove those three blips for the units you put underground.

Bluflash wrote:
@Mad Doc Grotsnik:

Since we have to flip on Turn 1 either way, I'm not sure the blips will do much to effect how an opponent screens his characters.

Being able to guarantee him a 9" drop with a 12" gun anywhere on the table should motivate opponent's to be a bit more deliberate in their screening, doubly so with the potential assassain value of the Jackal Alphus and the Sanctus in concert.

Anything that makes my opponent feel more restricted in his deployment and movement works for me.

And, curiously, if we go second we can seemingly avoid quite a bit of first 1st turn damage? Even though we pop up at the end of the movement phase, it gives us at least the opportunity to provide the foe with poor targets?

So, can we ensure that there are no more new models?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Bluflash wrote:
@Mad Doc Grotsnik:

Since we have to flip on Turn 1 either way, I'm not sure the blips will do much to effect how an opponent screens his characters.

Being able to guarantee him a 9" drop with a 12" gun anywhere on the table should motivate opponent's to be a bit more deliberate in their screening, doubly so with the potential assassain value of the Jackal Alphus and the Sanctus in concert.

Anything that makes my opponent feel more restricted in his deployment and movement works for me.

And, curiously, if we go second we can seemingly avoid quite a bit of first 1st turn damage? Even though we pop up at the end of the movement phase, it gives us at least the opportunity to provide the foe with poor targets?

Yes, I definitely think so.
Getting decoy blips on the front deployment line plus some back a bit will have real utility.

We can also play some fun deployment games with our vehicles that don't want to move. With a Leman Russ, for example, place a blip at the corner of some LOS terrain. If we go first, drop the tank in a position where it will have clear LOS & Range, if we go second, deploy back behind the LOS terrain denying the opponent the shot.

As the day has gone by, I've reconsidered the blip system. While it's definately a power cut, I think it leans us more towards playing crafty and using tricks, rather than just Cult Ambush hammer squads.

Bluflash wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Bluflash wrote:
@Mad Doc Grotsnik:

Since we have to flip on Turn 1 either way, I'm not sure the blips will do much to effect how an opponent screens his characters.

Being able to guarantee him a 9" drop with a 12" gun anywhere on the table should motivate opponent's to be a bit more deliberate in their screening, doubly so with the potential assassain value of the Jackal Alphus and the Sanctus in concert.

Anything that makes my opponent feel more restricted in his deployment and movement works for me.

And, curiously, if we go second we can seemingly avoid quite a bit of first 1st turn damage? Even though we pop up at the end of the movement phase, it gives us at least the opportunity to provide the foe with poor targets?

Yes, I definitely think so.
Getting decoy blips on the front deployment line plus some back a bit will have real utility.

Don't forget that there are no "decoy blips" You just get three extra blips to place with the strategem, and will have three spare blips left to discard at the end. So if the blips you had planned to be decoys turn out to be useful, you can still use them to place a unit- there is no marking which blips are decoys or not, you decide when you place.

We can also play some fun deployment games with our vehicles that don't want to move. With a Leman Russ, for example, place a blip at the corner of some LOS terrain. If we go first, drop the tank in a position where it will have clear LOS & Range, if we go second, deploy back behind the LOS terrain denying the opponent the shot.

As the day has gone by, I've reconsidered the blip system. While it's definately a power cut, I think it leans us more towards playing crafty and using tricks, rather than just Cult Ambush hammer squads.

Seeing as we haven't seen the full rules for how the deepstrike part works or how things synergise with the new strategems, relics, and warlord traits, I think it is too early to say this is definitely a power cut. It is possible that the Going underground rules are still very effective, so that overall the two combined is an improvement. You can use a mixture during games.

zamerion wrote:
So, can we ensure that there are no more new models?

There're still the Aberrants and Professor Membrane. Maybe a bunch of Familiars, if the 'baby Stealer' rumour was true.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

zamerion wrote:
So, can we ensure that there are no more new models?

There're still the Aberrants and Professor Membrane. Maybe a bunch of Familiars, if the 'baby Stealer' rumour was true.

Thinking about it, could that baby stealer rumor have been a mutation of "hey look these characters have personal familiars"?

That said, I was wrong on the Ridge Racer so I'll take them if I am.

 dracpanzer wrote:


Will the stratagem actually allow GSC to bypass the half units/points off the table for game start rule?.

Dunno. I’d assume, for now, that the rules they preview are the generic rules without the matched-play or event-specific extra restrictions. There’s nothing preventing, say, a Grey Knight or Deathwing army to completely null-deploy and completely deep-Strike first turn in their Codex-rules either.

Whether GSC rules get a “special treatment” (from the start) in the ancillary matched play restrictions or if GW let’s these new rules fall wherever they may with the current restrictions that exist for all armies remains to be seen.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
perhaps Tide of Traitors/Green Tide/Black Cornucopia, should you opt to use these 1st turn on a healthy unit just to re-deploy.

Which they can't do at least green tide. Need to be max half the original strength.

My understanding was that cult ambush can be used turn one. The community site preview specifically says 'at the start of any of your movement phases'. Plus the faq document specifically acknowledged the impact the beta rule on deepstriking would have on GSC and said this would be addressed in the codex. To say this then, in the codex, leave it subject to the very restriction you said earlier you would address doesn't make sense?

We'll have to wait and see. All of those abilities are worded "any movement phase" as matched play isn't the only option.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My understanding was that cult ambush can be used turn one. The community site preview specifically says 'at the start of any of your movement phases'. Plus the faq document specifically acknowledged the impact the beta rule on deepstriking would have on GSC and said this would be addressed in the codex. To say this then, in the codex, leave it subject to the very restriction you said earlier you would address doesn't make sense?

The community sight has been known to be wrong with rules before. It's being addressed by the fact that Cult Ambush is changing in it's entirety, from whats been said so far it looks like it's now you either put your units into a standard deep strike or null deploy using the blip method, there's no more rolling on a table to try and get 20 Genestealers a 3" charge. What we don't know is all the ways this system can be manipulated.

Looks like no rules or unit info today, just a lore page.
Rather annoying, hopefully I'm reading that wrong.

Yea I hate it when they put lore info in the leak and it's copy and paste from the previous book.

I wasn't expecting any article today really, the lore one is nice imo though.

Bluflash wrote:
Looks like no rules or unit info today, just a lore page.
Rather annoying, hopefully I'm reading that wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next three articles are some combination of: specific sub-cult fluff & rules, unit rules, and stratagems / warlord traits.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My understanding was that cult ambush can be used turn one. The community site preview specifically says 'at the start of any of your movement phases'. Plus the faq document specifically acknowledged the impact the beta rule on deepstriking would have on GSC and said this would be addressed in the codex. To say this then, in the codex, leave it subject to the very restriction you said earlier you would address doesn't make sense?

Never accuse GW of making sense. IMO the deepstrike will be affected by the reserves, but the blips won’t, but I have no evidence

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
My understanding was that cult ambush can be used turn one. The community site preview specifically says 'at the start of any of your movement phases'. Plus the faq document specifically acknowledged the impact the beta rule on deepstriking would have on GSC and said this would be addressed in the codex. To say this then, in the codex, leave it subject to the very restriction you said earlier you would address doesn't make sense?

Personally I could see GW saying that the blip and underground system is a “fix” to not being able to cult ambush turn 1. Of course, they easy fix would be to allow them to cult ambush on turn 1

But the “any of your movement phase” doesn’t override the beta rule. The codex would have to have a more explicit rule that overrides it. Of course, it’s possible that the codex will have a rule that allows turn 1 deep strike, but that line doesn’t do it. That’s literally the same line that regular deep strike says.

No leaked codex yet? I wonder what this bad asexual looks like under the hood.

Usually the "leaks" pop up in the week between pre-order and delivery. I think the review embargo drops on Saturday, so we should start seeing book text then.

Cannot give away my "source", but it seems like there is at least another transport for the Cult, a flying one, called the Gravopter Duneskimmer.

No more details, sadly, but the origin of the "intel" seems kinda reliable. Pretty sure that other people will confirm this before sathurday. I really hope this turn to be true.

GunSmith wrote:
Cannot give away my "source", but it seems like there is at least another transport for the Cult, a flying one, called the Gravopter Duneskimmer.

No more details, sadly, but the origin of the "intel" seems kinda reliable. Pretty sure than other people will confirm this before sathurday. I really hope this turn to be true.

Cautiously intrigued.