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 Overread wrote:
Don't forget one big weakness of the Lynch film is the latter half after he escapes into the desert. At that point Lynch was basically running out of time to fit the film into. If you've read the book you can connect a lot of the dots, but its very much a whistle-stop of huge events that are hardly touched upon before you're at the end battle. This new film is aiming to, far as I recall, only go as far as Paul escaping into the desert. It's a natural break part that they can end on and leave open to a sequel. If they get it then they'll have more than enough time to develop the second film.

That's the thing...both films ARE based on the same book. And Lynch's film doesn't do a bad job with the story overall up to Paul and Jessica's escape. So yeah, some sequences will look familiar because...that's the story.


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 Manchu wrote:
LOL gospel music?

Oh sure, the spiritual rendition of Comfortably Numb is my fave.

From what we see in this trailer, Denis’s movie looks NOTHING like Lynch’s. The ‘84 film had a sumptuous, baroque production design. This film is severely minimalist by comparison.

 gorgon wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
LOL gospel music?

Oh sure, the spiritual rendition of Comfortably Numb is my fave.

I don’t get it.

This is a cover of Eclipse. It’s a pretty close cover of the original. It’s not gospel music.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Yeah, the music was a huge turn off for me as well. I'm still gonna give the movie a go in theaters, assuming they're open of course.

I won't, simply because theaters are a pointlessly stupid risk at the moment. But yeah, that music... bleh. I don't get anachronistic inserts of recent popular music in films set elsewhere/when, or crappy cover versions.

Trailer unfortunately presents the film as a checklist of major scenes (I suspect some of the missing ones won't be in at all).

Didn't expect Drax & Aquaman, but I haven't paid much attention to the casting, though I don't believe those two characters fight or even meet at any point. If they stick to the book, I expect fans of the actors will be _very_ disappointed at how things turn out for those two men. (ie, quickly and early for one and an off screen footnote for the other).

Surprised they went with Crusade over Jihad, as that's just as divisive a term (or even moreso depending on the politics).

Voss wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Yeah, the music was a huge turn off for me as well. I'm still gonna give the movie a go in theaters, assuming they're open of course.

I won't, simply because theaters are a pointlessly stupid risk at the moment. But yeah, that music... bleh. I don't get anachronistic inserts of recent popular music in films set elsewhere/when, or crappy cover versions.

Trailer unfortunately presents the film as a checklist of major scenes (I suspect some of the missing ones won't be in at all).

Didn't expect Drax & Aquaman, but I haven't paid much attention to the casting, though I don't believe those two characters fight or even meet at any point. If they stick to the book, I expect fans of the actors will be _very_ disappointed at how things turn out for those two men. (ie, quickly and early for one and an off screen footnote for the other).

Surprised they went with Crusade over Jihad, as that's just as divisive a term (or even moreso depending on the politics).

Presumably, he is talking about the impending Harkonnen attack on the Atreides here, not the Fremen religion. Because if not, then yeah, avoiding the Fremen Jihad by naming it the Fremen Crusade would be pretty stupid indeed.

 Manchu wrote:
LOL gospel music?

Lol yes I was going to say, sure Pink Floyd would appreciate that comparison

I must admit...against all better judgement...I'm beginning to like this trailer.

Love Dune, Herbert's novels, the KJ & BH novels, the 1984 movie, the 2000 tv shows, the landmark computer games by Cryo and Westwood....

...damn. I still need to get the new board game! Knew I forgot to order something...

Looks like they'll be taking a leaf out of the 2000 tv series by ending the first film with Paul and Jess escaping the sandworm. Which even with just two hours running time it'll be plenty of breathing room for the story and world building.

And yes, Harkonnen Force is frigging amazing. I play it in the background during games of Dune2K and doing a bit of exercise.

I guess i’ll describe why I think Eclipse is the perfect song for this trailer. The lyrics form a totalitizing litany culminating in the line “and everything under the sun is in tune” contradicted by the simple observation “but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.”

In Dune, we see the ambitions of House Atreides, the schemes of House Harkonnen, the machinations of the Bene Gesserit, the Guild, and the Emperor, the prophecies of the Fremen, “plots within plots” — all of these factions’ wills bent on forcing an outcome where their rivals have no response, basically forcing a checkmate scenario. And yet, instead, it all leads to a point of darkness, a moment of uncertainty, a place “where we dare not look,” in which there is radical freedom to choose what it all will mean. And that point is Paul in the desert of Arrakis, when he becomes “the moon” that eclipses the sun, Muad’Dib.

Even the logo for the movie is Arrakis eclipsing its sun or its moon eclipsing Arrakis.

I think they made a mistake with that song in the trailer. The sound of it just didn't fit tonally with what was happening on screen. It was very dissonant, regardless of the lyrical content. I liked everything else about the trailer though.

 Manchu wrote:
From what we see in this trailer, Denis’s movie looks NOTHING like Lynch’s. The ‘84 film had a sumptuous, baroque production design. This film is severely minimalist by comparison.

 gorgon wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
LOL gospel music?

Oh sure, the spiritual rendition of Comfortably Numb is my fave.

I don’t get it.

This is a cover of Eclipse. It’s a pretty close cover of the original. It’s not gospel music.

I'm...agreeing with you. It's Floyd and not even that different.

Visually, I like all the big environmental shots that the Lynch film seems light on. It's important for Dune to have those kinds of images. It's an environmental story. Seems like Villeneuve has always used space and emptiness really well, and it just really works for Dune.


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 Thargrim wrote:
I think they made a mistake with that song in the trailer. The sound of it just didn't fit tonally with what was happening on screen. It was very dissonant, regardless of the lyrical content. I liked everything else about the trailer though.

Well, it's going to be a Zimmer score, so I'm sure we'll get plenty of BWAAAAAAAAH in the actual film.

SamusDrake wrote:


Looks like they'll be taking a leaf out of the 2000 tv series by ending the first film with Paul and Jess escaping the sandworm. Which even with just two hours running time it'll be plenty of breathing room for the story and world building.

I mean, isn`t the novel itself explicitedly split into Part I and Part II in that regard?

For those who find the music jarring, I can understand this.

Consider that this is intentional. The trailer is asking you to see this in its own light rather than in the light of others’ visions for developing this IP.

Denis is not re-making Lynch’s movie, for example. Rather, and it cannot be stressed enough, this is his adaptation.

Likewise, the worm in this trailer is not primarily a sci fi monster but instead seems to be a kind of symbolic image, like the eclipse, evoking the human eye. The trailer concludes with Paul looking into the maw of the worm and the worm, as a giant pupil and iris, looking back, and then we hear the lyrics “all that you touch and all that you see.”

 Manchu wrote:
I don’t get it.

This is a cover of Eclipse. It’s a pretty close cover of the original. It’s not gospel music.

I've never been a Pink Floyd fan so wasn't familiar with it. If you want to deduct 70's rock cool points, feel free but I have to warn you that it's scant pickings in that regard for me. Regardless, the midpoint of the trailer (the 1:45 mark) sounds like a gospel music to me with a strong female solo singing with a choir backup.

Didn't Jodorowsky want Pink Floyd to do the soundtrack for his version of Dune?

I can't help but feel the music choice is deliberate.

 Esmer wrote:

I know it won't happen, but I'd really love to hear the Harkonnen theme from the PC game featured in the movie somehow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOxuQBe_cL8

It just oozes retro style industrial evil. And seeing how sickly all the Harkonnens look in this movie, I think they are going to promote an enviromental angle in some way.

I could see that as great for the actual movie but a bit heavy for a trailer where they only partly feature. Maybe they'll have a trailer where it focuses on the Harkonnens? Dave Bautista does look good as the Rabban/the Beast.


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 Captain Joystick wrote:
Didn't Jodorowsky want Pink Floyd to do the soundtrack for his version of Dune?

I can't help but feel the music choice is deliberate.

Yup, he did. I just watched the documentary on that last week out of boredom. Mick Jagger was supposed to be in the film although I don't recall if he and the Rolling Stones were supposed to contribute to the soundtrack on top of casting him.

Regardless, the midpoint of the trailer (the 1:45 mark) sounds like a gospel music to me with a strong female solo singing with a choir backup.

Sure, what will get from quibbling over what to call the style is limited in the extreme. But maybe now that the reference has been clarified, the choice will make more sense.

That was a trip. I am very happy, I like the music I think it fits, I am a huge fan of the design, the focal points, every image feels like a painting. Like framing in this is just top notch. The fact that the guy who also did Blade Runner 2049 is also doing Dune is... just oh my god I can't believe it. I have some hopes and I hope this knocks it out the park, and smashes disney's window.

 Esmer wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:


Looks like they'll be taking a leaf out of the 2000 tv series by ending the first film with Paul and Jess escaping the sandworm. Which even with just two hours running time it'll be plenty of breathing room for the story and world building.

I mean, isn`t the novel itself explicitedly split into Part I and Part II in that regard?

Yes, in fact i even read it that way, with a break in the middle. I believe the first part ends when Paul has his awakening.

 Esmer wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:


Looks like they'll be taking a leaf out of the 2000 tv series by ending the first film with Paul and Jess escaping the sandworm. Which even with just two hours running time it'll be plenty of breathing room for the story and world building.

I mean, isn`t the novel itself explicitedly split into Part I and Part II in that regard?

Been about two decades since I read Dune itself, but pretty sure it was three parts and the first ending with the sandworm chase. Unlike most others I started with House Atredies and ended with Chapter House Dune, and then carried on with the other Kevin & Brian novels as they rolled out over the years.

Voss wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Yeah, the music was a huge turn off for me as well. I'm still gonna give the movie a go in theaters, assuming they're open of course.

I won't, simply because theaters are a pointlessly stupid risk at the moment. But yeah, that music... bleh. I don't get anachronistic inserts of recent popular music in films set elsewhere/when, or crappy cover versions..

I strongly suspect that it'll be a situation like Blur on the Starship Troopers trailer... music used solely for the trailer because it's more memorable than an orchestral score.

 Esmer wrote:
What makes you think it'll bomb?

I don't think it will bomb, simply because of what it is... but I don't see it doing particularly well, to be honest. Even aside from the current economic situation, the trailer tells you absolutely nothing about what the movie is about. To anyone not familiar with the book, it just looks like a pretty but rather dark and humourless sci fi movie, and that's not going to pull in mainstream audiences.




As an aside, the Earthworm Jim cartoon (which for me pre-dates Dune by a considerable margin) really spoilt the gravity of the 'Fear is the mindkiller' mantra for me...

It looks way more accessible than BR2049 though. It's not going to pull in marvel/dc money but it could do okay...hopefully at the very least it does well enough to greenlight the second half. It'll be a real downer if Denis can't see the book all the way through to the end.

Bring on all that merch though, I want all the goodies.

I don't know if any movie or franchise for years to come will pull in prepandeimic MCU money including nuMCU.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Esmer wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:


Looks like they'll be taking a leaf out of the 2000 tv series by ending the first film with Paul and Jess escaping the sandworm. Which even with just two hours running time it'll be plenty of breathing room for the story and world building.

I mean, isn`t the novel itself explicitedly split into Part I and Part II in that regard?

Been about two decades since I read Dune itself, but pretty sure it was three parts and the first ending with the sandworm chase. Unlike most others I started with House Atredies and ended with Chapter House Dune, and then carried on with the other Kevin & Brian novels as they rolled out over the years.

Part 1 ends with tying up loose ends with Leto and the Baron, and then Paul's moment of revelation.

Part 2 kicks off with a lot of stuff, including stuff that is obviously in this movie (like Duncan, who spends most of Part 1 'off on a mission,' with a brief exception where he comes back to introduce Stilgar to the Duke). The sandworm crossing is a good 60-odd pages into part 2.

Part 3 kicks off with a two year time skip and pretty much rushes for the end in 120 pages or so.

Voss wrote:


Part 1 ends with tying up loose ends with Leto and the Baron, and then Paul's moment of revelation.

Part 2 kicks off with a lot of stuff, including stuff that is obviously in this movie (like Duncan, who spends most of Part 1 'off on a mission,' with a brief exception where he comes back to introduce Stilgar to the Duke). The sandworm crossing is a good 60-odd pages into part 2.

Part 3 kicks off with a two year time skip and pretty much rushes for the end in 120 pages or so.

Then its definitely been too long. Might get it down from the loft and give it another read after I finish The Massacre of Mankind.

Cheers.

 Manchu wrote:
Denis is not re-making Lynch’s movie, for example. Rather, and it cannot be stressed enough, this is his adaptation.

I agree 100%, but also feel like the Lynch film baggage is hefty and inescapable. I believe I saw an interview a while back where Villeneuve had to clarify it somewhat for the reviewer. You'd think people within the industry would get it, but film people see two films and connect them directly. Audiences *might* get it better just because more of them have probably read the book. Still, the entanglement of the two films seems like an X-factor with an uncertain effect. Will it drive some box office? Or will audiences say "where are the weirding modules and heart plugs and kitty milking?!?"

 insaniak wrote:
I don't think it will bomb, simply because of what it is... but I don't see it doing particularly well, to be honest. Even aside from the current economic situation, the trailer tells you absolutely nothing about what the movie is about. To anyone not familiar with the book, it just looks like a pretty but rather dark and humourlesssci fi movie, and that's not going to pull in mainstream audiences.

You may or may not be right about its success. But is it a millennial thing to demand that every film be light and humorous?

To be clear -- I'm not jumping down YOUR throat on this. It's just that I see this kind of sentiment with some frequency online and don't understand it. Dark stories, tragedies, etc. go back to the birth of drama in Greece.

Is it an MCU thing? Have Marvel movies become so pervasive that audiences expect dance-offs and one-liners all the time? Some of the greatest films in history are pretty much humorless.

Nolan’s batfilms certainly weren’t light and humorous!

 warboss wrote:
I don't know if any movie or franchise for years to come will pull in prepandeimic MCU money including nuMCU.

I so, so want to go and see this film in the cinema. A bunch of those shots just look epic and like they are designed for massive screens and 30-channel THX speakers blasting you from all around.

But I just won't risk it I'm afraid and I'm angry that they're releasing it during the pandemic - I know I am speaking selfishly from a country which still has high infection rates (I'm sure my opinion would be different if I lived in Finland, South Korea or New Zealand).
I don't know if it's very likely but I hope there is some kind of 'reset' in the new year, should a vaccine have arrived or most of the developed world have things under control, to be able to go and see this without risk.

So, my thoughts on the Trailer. Visually it looks awesome, and the cast they have assembled appears fantastic.

Their musical selection was...um, not something I felt fit Dune at all. A lot of the scenes and action looks very Marvel-esque/Avengers-ey, which I thought was a weird route to take (though if its done well that's ok). The obvious changing of some language (e.g. "Crusade" instead of "Jihad") is a bit concerning about staying true to the source material, so we'll see how that turns out.

@Gorgon, no it’s not a Millenial thing or a Marvel thing. It’s a natural reaction to the near-constant barrage of dark, joyless sci fi over the last 20 years. Yeah, Margel
Movies are lighter and more fun, but even our Star Trek is dour and depressing these days. Look at the John Carter adaptation, where the writer saddled an adventurous hero with dead-wife-and-kids angst. The big action scene is interspersed with this old timer punch-up hero crying over little graves. The whole genre has been affected by this trend. I completely understand someone mistaking Dune for yet another crapsack story due to that trailer.

Frank Herbert himself described the Butlerian Jihad as a “crusade against computers” so whether he really used the word “jihad” to mean something different from crusade is pretty questionable and I suspect all this smattering of Arabic and Arabic-esque terminology was more about adding some exoticism (and cultural/historical verisimilitude) to his work more so than some kind of importantly particular reference; kind of like how Zensunni doesn’t really work out to anything other than a strange phrase that tricks the mind into seeming familiar in a surprising way.

I'm going to push back on this argument that the trailer doesn't give any information - aware that by virtue of being born in 1986 and having seen parts of both the lynch version and the mini series while channel surfing, some may still consider me too knowledgeable about Dune to presume to know what true outsiders are getting from this trailer. I still think it covers the bases you need to cover in a teaser trailer for a movie coming out in 3+ months:

-We introduce our main character and that he has supernatural powers he does not fully understand, the ability to see the future is alluded to.
-By way of this, he is warned of a coming war
-We learn these powers are not without precident, and there are those who understand it and have a system of tests to weed out those who can't handle it.
-We are told the main character is inheriting power (too much, according to the ominous mentor voice)
-That power includes ruling others, he is part of a dynasty (an unworthy one, again according to the mentor)
-"My father rules an entire planet." ("He's losing it.")
-"He's getting a richer one." ("He'll lose that one too.")
-We're introduced to a world covered in desert (apparently quite wealthy) with people. The mentor names it Arakis and a Death Trap
-We see antagonists accompanied with a stinger chord ordering each other to 'kill them' - standard movie trailer bad guy introduction
-Main character laments that his family is being exterminated by said movie trailer bad guys
-Mentor asks main character how far he'll go to save himself (and unspoken, the things he cares about)
-Main character meets the girl from his visions - realizing he is on the path he was warned about
-Visual reel of potentially important characters and events, plus some of the existing completed FX shots
-"One day - the legend will be born. - All of civilization depends on it." Standard practice of splicing a longer dialogue line to describe the stakes in as over-the-top way possible.
-And we close with a line from the book (present in all other adaptions, right?) and a shot of the spice and the worm - to reassure those who would freak out and insist those parts had been cut out of the story because they weren't mentioned by name in the first trailer.

Honestly, it seems like a straightforward teaser - one that outlines the key points they're going to cover in the story - in fact I think it might give away a little too much to those who don't already know the story.