Shadow Spear / New Chaos Space Marines

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**streetsamurai**

A couple of comments:

-I really like the CMS in the middle.

-Would be very surprised if this box is less expensive than DI

-in the last few monoposed boxes GW released. one or two units never got a full kit afterward. If the trend continues, my money is on the venomcrawler

**GoatboyBeta**

Kanluwen wrote:

The thing that I keep coming to is that this might be related to their Start Collecting set price adjustments and a mention(offhandedly) that was made about trying to make things more accessible.

Something like this would allow for a Start Collecting set down the line. If you look at AoS, the previous starter set has since been turned into two Start Collecting sets that were immune to the price bumps(Goreblade Warband and Thunderstrike Brotherhood sets in case you're interested). We'll have to wait and see the sprue breakdowns on Shadowspear but I would be surprised if they have the units mixed on it.

If this truly is a new subfaction within a Codex as a whole and not a new book entirely? These setups would allow for existing players to expand in a pretty quick manner without it potentially being too stressful for their production+distribution side of things as people wouldn't have to go for the full kits if they just wanted 'the basics'.

Hopefully your on to something here. Just the CSM side at a SC price point would certainly tempt me.

**GaroRobe**

streetsamurai wrote:
A couple of comments:

-I really like the CMS in the middle.

-Would be very surprised if this box is less expensive than DI

-in the last few monoposed boxes GW released. one or two units never got a full kit afterward. If the trend continues, my money is on the venomcrawler

I feel like the Venomcrawler will be just like the Blight Drone in DI. We've already seen a leg and possible back gun for it teased in the rumor engine, so if we don't get something similar released separately, I'll be surprised.

**Crimson**

The Suppressors certainly look goofier than I imagined, but having examined the pictures, I am pretty confident that I can make them look cool by altering the pose and having them stand on the ground. Requires cutting up the legs from several joints, but it should work.

**H.B.M.C.**

Marines:

The shouty Captain is silly.
The knifey Lt is very cool looking. He's probably super-jealous of the Captain and his proper knife.
The Libby remains one of the best minis GW have made in ages.
The Suppressors would be fine if they were standing on the ground. As goofy flying Marines they just don't work.
The Infiltrators, they're aiight I 'spose. Shame that they are a bunch of duplicate poses though.
Eliminators are cool looking. Shame there are only 3 of them.

Chaos:

Daemon Summoner guy is fine as far as Sorcerers go. 'Least he's plastic.
~~Primaris~~ Greater Possessed are just bizarre. Rando single Possessed not-quite character minis that run around by themselves?
The Chaos Marines are very pretty with zero duplicates and zero variety. Autocannon's very chunky. Can't wait to see a real kit.
Venomcrawler is nice. Presumably there will be a real kit for it as well.
Oblits... *sigh* man I was hoping for 3. I really like them, but they are push-fit and there are two of them. Who knows if we'll get a proper box with 1-3 of them later down the line.

And I'd be surprised if this box isn't the same cost as the regular full-kit battle-boxes even though it should be cheaper than DI.

**Crimson**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.

I find the clear distinction between the flesh and armour really distracting. I bet they would look much better were they painted in uniform colour. Same with the Possessed.

**His Master's Voice**

Yeah, those heavy weapons will look much better when well braced on the ground.

Anyway, I really like the CSM, the Primaris troops and the Librarian. Crawler and Primaris commander are okay, though I'll say that it's nice to see a demon engine that kinda looks like an engine. Possessed are... better than the current ones, but still not where they should be. The Oblis are... salvageable I guess, once I remove all that silly flesh and replace it with mechanical parts.

Overall, pretty decent release.

**Haighus**

Crimson wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.

I find the clear distinction between the flesh and armour really distracting. I bet they would look much better were they painted in uniform colour. Same with the Possessed.

I think this is just the typical GW studio style of highlighting all the details to potential buyers, even if the model looks worse overall because of it.

I can't wait to see some examples from the community.

**Mentlegen324**

I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.

**His Master's Voice**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.

I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.

**Elbows**

Kanluwen wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Here is what confuses me.

Dark Imperium and its subsequent mini-lings were easy to build because they were starter boxes, etc. The additional mini-boxes were also easy-to-build, etc. Also understandable. We can assume for a while that the DI box will continue to be the main rulebook/starter box. As mentioned all of the other combo-boxes have been collections of newish full kits sold at a discount and for a short limited time.

This doesn't fit into the mold. Most of these kits will "likely" get a proper full multi-part kits, which means GW is making duplicate models for a lot of random units. So if this box doesn't hang around for a while, it seems a bizarre investment. I don't see the point in GW releasing a nearly duplicate range of easy-to-build kits alongside normal kits. That's an expensive redundancy even if they think it'll attract a few buyers for being $5-10 cheaper, etc. This box would have made sense had it replaced DI, come with a softbound rulebook (preferably in two parts, rules and fluff), dice, rulers, etc.

As it stands - I don't get it. The characters etc. make sense, they'll be clam-packed. While I don't collect much modern 40K I hope it's not a heavier swing in the direction of removing actual multi-option kits. I just don't understand the thinking and placement of this box in the 40K market right now. It'll obviously sell a bajillion copies, but then what? Will you actually see the mono-pose Chaos marine squad in a box for $35 while a new Chaos marine multi-part kit comes out for $55? I dunno. Seems very odd. Unless GW simply thinks they'll make enough off this box in six months to ditch it and some of its sculpts (feasible).

The thing that I keep coming to is that this might be related to their Start Collecting set price adjustments and a mention(offhandedly) that was made about trying to make things more accessible.

Something like this would allow for a Start Collecting set down the line. If you look at AoS, the previous starter set has since been turned into two Start Collecting sets that were immune to the price bumps(Goreblade Warband and Thunderstrike Brotherhood sets in case you're interested). We'll have to wait and see the sprue breakdowns on Shadowspear but I would be surprised if they have the units mixed on it.

If this truly is a new subfaction within a Codex as a whole and not a new book entirely? These setups would allow for existing players to expand in a pretty quick manner without it potentially being too stressful for their production+distribution side of things as people wouldn't have to go for the full kits if they just wanted 'the basics'.

Yeah, and that - honestly, is the only thing I've seen put forward that makes sense. I don't think there's room for a large line of ETB compared to normal kits, but modified ETB start collecting boxes would make absolute sense (sadly I suspect it would not change the price tag!)

**Crimson**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.

A big part of that is painting. Imagine these with the cloaks painted as weathered leather, in dirty and battle-damaged armours with medieval heraldry. Black Templars or Howling Griffons. Ultramarine colour-scheme and modern camo-pattern are both good ways to make any model to look worse, and they have combined them here.

**Mentlegen324**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.

I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.

The Space Marine scouts were never very gothic overall, but that wasn't really a problem because only had carapace armour, something that wasn't really a showcase of the Imperium's approach to technology. It's not just the lack of gothic details specifically with this power armour, it's that it's power armour that's been designed to look high-tech, advanced and sleek with a more realistic or grounded feel than usual, an idea that in itself clashes with the gothic nature.

**NinthMusketeer**

Haighus wrote:
Crimson wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like the models, generally speaking. I should be careful what I wish for on new oblits... They are fluffed as having fleshmetal where there is no difference between the organic and mechanical whereas these miniatures have very clear distinction between those areas, for the most part. Fortunately a little bit of green stuff and a different paint setup will go a long way.

I find the clear distinction between the flesh and armour really distracting. I bet they would look much better were they painted in uniform colour. Same with the Possessed.

I think this is just the typical GW studio style of highlighting all the details to potential buyers, even if the model looks worse overall because of it.

I can't wait to see some examples from the community.

That is a very good point and improves my outlook considerably... if the flesh was painted like metal and the metal painted like flesh it would be a totally different model.

**H.B.M.C.**

I don't see any "monastic, warrior-monks" in that set. How confusing.

Kanluwen wrote:
This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.

$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.

And when it costs as much as Wake the Claw or Tooth & Dead, what will you say then?

**MonkeyBallistic**

I really like the marines, but I’m not sold on the chaos half. I think the obliterators and possessed look terrible. I may be searching eBay for somebody selling the marine half of the box.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.

I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.

The Space Marine scouts were never very gothic overall, but that wasn't really a problem because only had carapace armour, something that wasn't really a showcase of the Imperium's approach to technology. It's not just the lack of gothic details specifically with this power armour, it's that it's power armour that's been designed to look high-tech, advanced and sleek with a more realistic or grounded feel than usual, an idea that in itself clashes with the gothic nature.

I dont think the Power Armor ever really looked Gothic to begin with (baring a few Special Characters), it was always very plain and pseudo hightech with some purity seals slapped on it. Or in the case of most of the 4e sets I started with, had some Greco-Roman inspiration. I never really got the Gothic 'feel' of the armor until the started putting reliquaries and other random junk on everything. I prefer the Primaris going back to having less on them (in most cases).

**insaniak**

I'm looking at the bolter guys and thinking it wouldn't be too surprising at this point if the next marine codex is Primaris only, but with a concurrent Chapter Approved article allowing you to add legacy wargear options to Vanguard units so people can run their Oldmarines as Vanguard.

**NurglesR0T**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't see any "monastic, warrior-monks" in that set. How confusing.

Kanluwen wrote:
This set really had better be cheaper than the other "Battlebox" boxed sets. Those are full kits at a discounted price, rather than what we now have been told is all Dark Imperium style simplified builds with 0 options.

$130 is, IMO, around what this one should sit at. Same price as Killteam and Rogue Trader are. $160 for this would feel a bit too much considering it's not full kits, there's no full rulebook for 40k in there, etc.
And when it costs as much as Wake the Claw or Tooth & Dead, what will you say then?

I guarantee you that this will be more than DI and will go for $240-$260 AUD (DI was $220 AUD)

**Crimson**

insaniak wrote:
I'm looking at the bolter guys and thinking it wouldn't be too surprising at this point if the next marine codex is Primaris only, but with a concurrent Chapter Approved article allowing you to add legacy wargear options to Vanguard units so people can run their Oldmarines as Vanguard.

Well, the bolt carbines these guys have are literally Godwyn pattern bolters with some extra doodahs.

**Rogerio134134**

Awesome stuff all round I absolutely love everything in the set apart from the flying suppressors. I will definitely be doing what I did with my inceptors and have them on the ground.

**Duskweaver**

The basic CSMs look fantastic. And I don't mind them being ETB, just as long as a proper multipart kit comes along eventually. They won't fit in with my existing Night Lords army (too much obvious Chaos iconography), but they're cool enough to get me to start a small Black Legion force.

The Obliterators, Venomcrawler and Suppressors are OK. The Suppressors are only useful to me if they can be Deathwatch, though, as my other SM army is strictly non-Primaris.

Unfortunately, I absolutely fething hate everything else. The Greater Possessed and Master of Possession look like especially goofy villains from a kid's cartoon. And the silly capris-and-sneakers legs on Phobos armour stray too far from the established SM aesthetic for me. I hate to sound like the Tau-haters from back in 3rd edition, but... Phobos-armoured Primaris just aren't Warhammer 40,000. They're some boring generic-sci-fi rubbish.

So I definitely won't be buying this box, but I will be picking up a few of the bits on ebay.

**Racerguy180**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
I really think they're loosing the aesthetics of the Space Marines, and to some extent W40K itself, with units like the Infiltrators having an advanced sci-fi look. They're something that would fit in more with a more high-tech future style of sci-fi, they remind me more of the Tau-upgraded Space Marines in that Dornian Heresy pic someone made a few years ago. The "monastic, warrior-monk feel that’s core to the Space Marines" feels randomly stuck on.

I think they're supposed to be a parallel to Scouts, and Scouts were never very Gothic. Stick some purity seals on them, add a reliquary here and there and they won't feel so clean any more.

The Space Marine scouts were never very gothic overall, but that wasn't really a problem because only had carapace armour, something that wasn't really a showcase of the Imperium's approach to technology. It's not just the lack of gothic details specifically with this power armour, it's that it's power armour that's been designed to look high-tech, advanced and sleek with a more realistic or grounded feel than usual, an idea that in itself clashes with the gothic nature.

I dont think the Power Armor ever really looked Gothic to begin with (baring a few Special Characters), it was always very plain and pseudo hightech with some purity seals slapped on it. Or in the case of most of the 4e sets I started with, had some Greco-Roman inspiration. I never really got the Gothic 'feel' of the armor until the started putting reliquaries and other random junk on everything. I prefer the Primaris going back to having less on them (in most cases).

I happen to think MKI, MKII, MKIII look very gothic. MKX armour has a couple nods to it but not really, it kinda is more Renaissance in feel.

**Slowroll**

That Supressor squad leader won't look as bad after swapping the head and pointing it in the right direction. I kind of like them. They use a Grav Chute but also have fly and move 12", I guess they hop like John Carter?

The SM officers have the same PL as the existing characters but with much less capability. Kind of a missed opportunity there as cheaper Primaris HQs would fill a new niche.

I could see myself using all the new units other than the Venomcrawler. For the characters, probably the psykers and none of the others. I really like the Infiltrator models.

I think they probably consider DI a loss leader and I am expecting this to be the same price.

**insaniak**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

I dont think the Power Armor ever really looked Gothic to begin with (baring a few Special Characters), it was always very plain and pseudo hightech with some purity seals slapped on it. Or in the case of most of the 4e sets I started with, had some Greco-Roman inspiration. I never really got the Gothic 'feel' of the armor until the started putting reliquaries and other random junk on everything. I prefer the Primaris going back to having less on them (in most cases).

It's kind of ironic that they only really started to sculpt marines to match the fluff comparatively shortly before deciding to squat them...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slowroll wrote:
That Supressor squad leader won't look as bad after swapping the head and pointing it in the right direction. .

Yup, a slight repose to remove the flight stem, and they'll be fine...

**H.B.M.C.**

Thanks insaniak! HA!

**AduroT**

I prefer the decreased about of bling and gothic on the marines myself. I started the game way back in second edition before that really started to creep so heavily into it, and it’s just been a long slow flanderization of their themes over the years. I appreciate them going back to the basics and cutting extraneous stuff off.

**insaniak**

AduroT wrote:
I prefer the decreased about of bling and gothic on the marines myself. I started the game way back in second edition before that really started to creep so heavily into it, and it’s just been a long slow flanderization of their themes over the years. I appreciate them going back to the basics and cutting extraneous stuff off.

I think there's room for both - 'clean' power armour does look awesome, but I'm also a fan of the Black Templar 'If you like it then you should have put a candle on it' approach to armour decor.

**BrianDavion**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
I almost wonder if the box will at least have head options. The two non-sergeant Eliminators have different heads, but the same body. So there is probably two different heads for them to choose from, since they are likely on duplicate sprues. So that might make the Eliminators okay for me.

So I am probably going to pick up the SM half on eBay, but leave the heads off the guys without helmets until the regular kits come out. That way I can put real heads on them, since the kits tend to come with extras anyway.

well if they're anything like the dark imperium minis it's childs play to swap differant heads on them. as they gave a depression for a standard Marine head.

**NinthMusketeer**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't see any "monastic, warrior-monks" in that set. How confusing.

I completely agree, was seriously cocking my head at that comment.