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 streetsamurai wrote:


No point in doing multi part plastic models if they are monopose and can only be armed one specfic way.

I get it, some people want their models to be like LEGOs, but let's not pretend dynamism, intricacy of design and the general benefits of plastic as a medium have no value.

 His Master's Voice wrote:


I get it, some people want their models to be like LEGOs, but let's not pretend dynamism, intricacy of design and the general benefits of plastic as a medium have no value.

Well, to be honest, what passes for those things with GW is... pretty worthless. You have seen some of these minis, right?


Maybe it's me working that art school education, but... yeah.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when I was building my fantasy orcs (A kit that sadly was discontinued a couple of weeks ago after so many years of good service on the frontline), how you basically clip out of the sprue all parts, put them in little bit-piles, and then just take one of each to start making truly random and unique orcs.

I remember doing something similar with high elves.

A box of spearmen, box of archers, and two boxes of silver helms.

Ended up with a 30 man seaguard unit that looked like a hedge of spears, 10 heavy cav, five light cav, and three characters, BSB, Mage (on foot) and mounted noble.

Meh, can't please everyone. I'm loving the new direction GW are taking their kits.

Even the monopose plastic 'Easy to Build' kits GW are doing nowadays are vastly superior to one-piece metal castings. Compare these guys:



To these:



Even ignoring the superiority of detail and ability to do proper undercuts (e.g. a loincloth that actually looks like a separate piece of hanging fabric rather than a solid cuboid between the model's thighs), plastic is easier to modify than metal, so something that's sold as monopose needn't remain so. You don't need a jeweller's saw, pin vise and brass rod to do a simple weapon or head swap with plastic.

How about comparing a modern GW plastic to a modern metal casting from another company, rather than a GW model from the sodding 90's.

Look I get it, I really really dislike metal as a medium - it's a pain to carry around in quantity, it's hard to convert, it snaps and comes unglued and chips the paint easily, pinning and gap filling can be a nightmare. All of that is true, and plastic monopose avoids it all.

But there *is* a happy medium that GW have been refusing/failing to hit with many recent kits. "monopose" does not have to mean "assemble exactly these parts in exactly this order, and good luck trying anything else because they're all keyed and the splits are all over the place rather than at consistent points like joints".

And it's not like they can't - pairs of arms, with separate weapons, with keyed ball-joints at the shoulder, plus anywhere else the sprue design allows for(mostly, you'd assume, heads, but surely at least *some* waists). They'd still be zero-effort assemblies for most people, since with keyed joints they only go together one way if you follow the instructions, but with a few quick snips and, importantly, zero greenstuff work you would have interchangeable arms, weapons, heads, and bodies at-minimum.

Honestly, all truly multipart kits led to was people creating whole armies of badly posed, crappy looking models. The limitations on modern kits gives better looking minis. I no longer have to spend hours cutting, filing and green stuffing multi part minis to create something that looks like a natural pose.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Honestly, all truly multipart kits led to was people creating whole armies of badly posed, crappy looking models. The limitations on modern kits gives better looking minis. I no longer have to spend hours cutting, filing and green stuffing multi part minis to create something that looks like a natural pose.

Well, that's your wrong judgemental opinion and you're entitled to it. But even after you get past the snobbery, err, it's nonsense - as pointed out above, it's entirely possible to design a kit that is both pre-posed and customisable, for those of us who're not horrified by the idea of doing some actual hobby work in our hobby...

Not afraid to do some hobby work in your hobby, but a knife and some green stuff is too much?

That 'happy medium' you mentioned sounds pretty arbitrary to me.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Honestly, all truly multipart kits led to was people creating whole armies of badly posed, crappy looking models. The limitations on modern kits gives better looking minis. I no longer have to spend hours cutting, filing and green stuffing multi part minis to create something that looks like a natural pose.

Well, that's your wrong judgemental opinion and you're entitled to it. But even after you get past the snobbery, err, it's nonsense - as pointed out above, it's entirely possible to design a kit that is both pre-posed and customisable, for those of us who're not horrified by the idea of doing some actual hobby work in our hobby...

Indeed. I was being hyperbolic for effect

In all seriousness, I totally agree with your point and I think the majority of new kits have hit that sweet spot. Look at genestealer cults, skitarii or Primaris. Integrating legs and torsos gives more natural poses, but then you can place any arms on any torso and angle the heads (which has the biggest effect of all on how the pose reads). Add to that how easy it is to cut, file and convert plastic and I honestly think GW minis have never been better.

And yeah, I do actual hobby work.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Honestly, all truly multipart kits led to was people creating whole armies of badly posed, crappy looking models. The limitations on modern kits gives better looking minis. I no longer have to spend hours cutting, filing and green stuffing multi part minis to create something that looks like a natural pose.

Well, that's your wrong judgemental opinion and you're entitled to it. But even after you get past the snobbery, err, it's nonsense - as pointed out above, it's entirely possible to design a kit that is both pre-posed and customisable, for those of us who're not horrified by the idea of doing some actual hobby work in our hobby...

Agreed. One of my main points of pride in my 6/7k+ CSM army is that there are no repeat minis (every marine is different and heavily converted to actually look like it's a renegade who's fought for 10k years), it shows off its owner's style rather than just GW's and it actually has some deeper character to it than some out of the box mono-pose model. Fair enough if not having such suits some, we've all got to enjoy ourselves, but if we can get the best of both worlds, then why the hell not?

Semper wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Honestly, all truly multipart kits led to was people creating whole armies of badly posed, crappy looking models. The limitations on modern kits gives better looking minis. I no longer have to spend hours cutting, filing and green stuffing multi part minis to create something that looks like a natural pose.

Well, that's your wrong judgemental opinion and you're entitled to it. But even after you get past the snobbery, err, it's nonsense - as pointed out above, it's entirely possible to design a kit that is both pre-posed and customisable, for those of us who're not horrified by the idea of doing some actual hobby work in our hobby...

Agreed. One of my main points of pride in my 6/7k+ CSM army is that there are no repeat minis (every marine is different and heavily converted to actually look like it's a renegade who's fought for 10k years), it shows off its owner's style rather than just GW's and it actually has some deeper character to it than some out of the box mono-pose model. Fair enough if not having such suits some, we've all got to enjoy ourselves, but if we can get the best of both worlds, then why the hell not?

Good for you. My mini collection is similar. Nothing is built as intended, but ignoring the fact I didn’t think anyone would take my post entirely seriously (I keep forgetting how that works ), I do think the current crop of kits are more beginner friendly and actually give more interesting bits for conversions.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Semper wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
Honestly, all truly multipart kits led to was people creating whole armies of badly posed, crappy looking models. The limitations on modern kits gives better looking minis. I no longer have to spend hours cutting, filing and green stuffing multi part minis to create something that looks like a natural pose.

Well, that's your wrong judgemental opinion and you're entitled to it. But even after you get past the snobbery, err, it's nonsense - as pointed out above, it's entirely possible to design a kit that is both pre-posed and customisable, for those of us who're not horrified by the idea of doing some actual hobby work in our hobby...

Agreed. One of my main points of pride in my 6/7k+ CSM army is that there are no repeat minis (every marine is different and heavily converted to actually look like it's a renegade who's fought for 10k years), it shows off its owner's style rather than just GW's and it actually has some deeper character to it than some out of the box mono-pose model. Fair enough if not having such suits some, we've all got to enjoy ourselves, but if we can get the best of both worlds, then why the hell not?

Good for you. My mini collection is similar. Nothing is built as intended, but ignoring the fact I didn’t think anyone would take my post entirely seriously (I keep forgetting how that works ), I do think the current crop of kits are more beginner friendly and actually give more interesting bits for conversions.

Ha. I was more agreeing with Yodhrin's overarching point than taking much from yours but I don't disagree there's some leagues for newbies with this style of kit.

Apropos Sororitas, i'm looking forward to them either way. Always fancied a SOB army in some capacity but i've held off for years due to their limbo-like state.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Not afraid to do some hobby work in your hobby, but a knife and some green stuff is too much?

That 'happy medium' you mentioned sounds pretty arbitrary to me.

Have a wee gander at my(woefully, woefully outdated) blog link, I struggle not to apply green stuff to models. I'm also not even remotely typical - the vast majority of conversions are bits swaps, and a lot of people aren't comfortable hacking away at expensive models that they don't really know how to repair if it goes wrong. Whether you make your models in fewer parts, or you make them in lots of parts with really awkward joins between them, or both at once, you're limiting the ability of most of your customers to do anything other than assemble them according to the instructions without deviation.

And actually no it's not arbitrary, it's me looking at what people here are saying about the things they like about monopose plastics, and pointing out that there's ways of achieving those things AND satisfying people who want more customisability out of the box. There could be even more customisability out of the box, yes, but not without compromising the first imperative.

I used to really enjoy the assembly part but recently its more like putting a jigsaw together than making unique models.



I really like the aesthetics but I would love more options once more.

It’s clear that different people want different things from their minis. There are valid arguments in favour of more monopose miniatures and valid argument against.

The only thing I have any real argument with is people using “monopose” to describe miniatures that I don’t think are.

The miniatures in Dark Imperium, Soul Wars or Blackstone Fortress are monopose. There are some very good reasons why they should be. All new character minis are monopose, I think that’s lead to better, more characterful minis.

However, I’ve seen people describe Primaris Intercessors as monopose simple because the legs and torso are one sculpt. That just doesn’t fit my idea of what monopose is.

Then there’s the instructions. Increasingly they show how to make the minis one way for beginners. Doesn’t mean they can’t be assembled in other ways. I’ve been surprised by just how customisable some kits I’ve been told are monopose actually are.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

In all seriousness, I totally agree with your point and I think the majority of new kits have hit that sweet spot. Look at genestealer cults, skitarii or Primaris. Integrating legs and torsos gives more natural poses, but then you can place any arms on any torso and angle the heads (which has the biggest effect of all on how the pose reads). Add to that how easy it is to cut, file and convert plastic and I honestly think GW minis have never been better.

Yep. I expect the new Sisters models to be like this. Plenty of opportunity to create custom poses.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And actually no it's not arbitrary, it's me looking at what people here are saying about the things they like about monopose plastics, and pointing out that there's ways of achieving those things AND satisfying people who want more customisability out of the box.

Okay, and this is not an attempt at 'gotcha', can you point to a GW kit that fulfils those requirement? I'm trying to understand what level of customisability would satisfy the people you mentioned.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
It’s clear that different people want different things from their minis. There are valid arguments in favour of more monopose miniatures and valid argument against.

The only thing I have any real argument with is people using “monopose” to describe miniatures that I don’t think are.

The miniatures in Dark Imperium, Soul Wars or Blackstone Fortress are monopose. There are some very good reasons why they should be.

The DI Primaris miniatures may be monopose but you can do some parts swapping as most of the arms fit most the torsos with some very minor trimming of tabs.

I do wonder if GW will be releasing DI style monopose sisters first in a 'versus' box before releasing proper sisters boxes. It's something the seem to like doing these days - not to mention including unique character sculpts in the same box. If GW wanted to print money they'd release a box of SoB versus new Chaos Cultists.

 Yodhrin wrote:
How about comparing a modern GW plastic to a modern metal casting from another company, rather than a GW model from the sodding 90's.

But why? The technology of making one-piece metal models hasn't really changed since then. The same limitations apply vis a vis stuff like hanging cloth/chainmail, dynamic poses etc. I used the old metal Marauders as an example simply because there's a recent ETB plastic kit (the Godsworn Hunt) that's attempting to be basically the same thing (making it a relevant comparison), and also because I own both. But, fine, here are some non-GW metal minis (that I also own a set of) that are similar to the Godsworn Hunt's spear-chucking woman:



Those loincloths are still just big chunks of solid metal. The poses are still pretty awkward thanks to each model having to be basically 'flat' in the mould. I think the Godsworn Hunt ETB plastic version is an order of magnitude better. Plastic lets you do stuff you just can't do in single-piece (or even 2-3 piece) metal.

In any case, I'm not arguing against proper multi-part multi-pose plastic kits. I'm just saying I'd rather have ETB monopose plastic models than anything metal. If the new SoB range is entirely ETB/monopose, that will be a shame and a missed opportunity, but it will still be a vast improvement over what we have now.

New stuff: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/18/18th-feb-battle-sister-bulletin-part-1-adepta-sororitas-iconographygw-homepage-post-1/?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=568477ad51-GW_18th_February_BL_Celebration_ENG&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-568477ad51-121244289

Not what I was expecting, but it's some nice art nonetheless. Except for that weird sketch on the third page. Is it a flaming head in a chalice? A flaming head in some sort of armor? I'm not sure what I'm looking at it, but I don't like it XD

Are we going to see the whole range go plastic, I sure hope so!!!

overtyrant wrote:
Meh, can't please everyone. I'm loving the new direction GW are taking their kits.

Will you still love it when the next codex makes the old kits unusable?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Meh, can't please everyone. I'm loving the new direction GW are taking their kits.

Will you still love it when the next codex makes the old kits unusable?

Is Trump threatening to sign some kind of executive order? It would still be okay because It would never get through the courts.

I find it weird that there is so much negativity over what should be a joyous occasion. I guess there is just too much potential.flux in the system so.far for people to judge one way or the other.and that makes people feel.insecure. However, one thing is guaranteed. There is still.no one or nothing that can force you to stop.enjoying your toy soldierettes.

 BaronIveagh wrote:


Will you still love it when the next codex makes the old kits unusable?

What old kit ? The Immolator ? Everything else are metal miniatures (with one resin exception, and it's a special character always meant for collection first anyway). It's not like you can "customize" them or built them otherwise.

Celestine with her fangirls are guaranted to stay in the new codex. What I'm expecting though is new options with the new plastic kits.

Rebasing ? We've seen what's like with the Space Marines - we'll still have people keeping the "small" bases and it works just fine. That's not a big deal.

Anyway, no need to freak out so soon. Just wait when it will be actually here with new infos.

 Yodhrin wrote:
And actually no it's not arbitrary, it's me looking at what people here are saying about the things they like about monopose plastics, and pointing out that there's ways of achieving those things AND satisfying people who want more customisability out of the box. There could be even more customisability out of the box, yes, but not without compromising the first imperative.

Except what you described can't exist. Period. Just look at primaris, one guy twists torso to the left, and the cables on the plate naturally follow. The other has right foot forward, making the cables twist lightly to the right. How the hell you'd swap torso between them without making both really unnatural and making some sort of weird butt dance? In case you missed it, GW tried to make it work for decades and the end result was always the same, marine doing squat "I am about to take dump" with legs spread and the torso rigidly aligned parallel with pants. How exactly is it better than real, natural multipose of primaris, again?

Never mind the fact that you obviously never tried to put together any of the more detailed deviant chapter "customizable" minis together because when GW tried to make them look nicer, they stopped fitting each other. See SW wolf termies, for one, chains with teeth dangling from some torsos will only fit the legs with flat belts, wolf skin loincloths and russ belts pad the codpieces to the point they won't fit with more ornamental breastplates - gee, it's almost exactly like primaris, except uglier and not fitting anywhere near as naturally together. BA termies after that just skipped the pretense and made legs and bodies one bit - and these are actually one of the best, nicest terminator kits in the entire GW/FW range. Go figure...

If you mean hands and heads, you can swap them with trivial ease on all primaris, both ETB (just snip off peg) and complete kit, you can swap hands (well, besides some character models with wrist protectors but regular SM have these too), and most importantly, all their arms are doing varied, interesting things (and you have a lot more sets of them than torsos allowing for lots of no-repeats). Again, how is that worse than old, boring "I am clutching me bolter across chest obscuring all details in a way that makes me looks like an idiot who never actually shot any guns"?

 BaronIveagh wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Meh, can't please everyone. I'm loving the new direction GW are taking their kits.

Will you still love it when the next codex makes the old kits unusable?

Yup, the previews they shown us totally aren't girls in power armour with bolters.

Oh wait, they are! Mind explaining to us how exactly diabolical GW will make two identically clad models with identical wargear so different they will stop being essentially the exact same thing?

 Irbis wrote:
Mind explaining to us how exactly diabolical GW will make two identically clad models with identical wargear so different they will stop being essentially the exact same thing?

Warp magic!

 Mmmpi wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Monopose seems very probable.

Sadly.

Why?

It's not hard to have the basic Sister as mono-pose body for legs + torso. The just have a few plug-ins:
* head
* backpack
* weapon arm
That's like 90% of the customization anybody would ever need (or want!)

Besides, they're still plastic, so they're super-easy to re-pose if that's what you want to do.

Lately, I have been building multi-part Warhammer Fantasy Empire Soldiers, and it's annoying. I so much wish that those models were fewer pieces and faster to build. The mono-pose metals were far easier to get playable. Do that!

 BaronIveagh wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
Meh, can't please everyone. I'm loving the new direction GW are taking their kits.

Will you still love it when the next codex makes the old kits unusable?

I'm clearly quite put out that I can't have power swords on my GSC acolytes. I demand they support my miniatures from thirty years ago that didn't receive rules support for most of that time.

Seriously, at some point, yes, they're going to start dropping support for old units. The game is entirely too bloated with extra super special elite of the elite hyper mega enhanced holy solider of the whale, it needs to happen. That or I want limos back.