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 xttz wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
I've always wanted to do an infantry horde army of all 1 sculpt and 1 pose just to mess with people's OCD.

Just hunt down the 2nd edition 40k starter set on ebay

Now now, no need to try to cost ERJAK hundreds of dollars.

Any WFB army from the late 90s will do. My High Elf army had over a hundred of the models from the 4th edition starter; one spearman pose and one archer pose. Same went for the other armies.

I still prefer those single-part High Elf plastic troops to the multi-part spearmen and archers released for 6th edition. I did buy a box of the archers because they weren't wearing armour so I could save a point per model using those ones instead of the older models in scale armour, but they're ugly models. I didn't get round to actually painting them until a couple of years ago when I used them for AoS.

My 20-man Tactical Squad of Marines for Horus Heresy are all in essentially the same pose; rifle held at the waist. Some are looking left, some to the right, the rifles are at three different heights, but essentially it's 20 guys all doing the same thing.

 Sarouan wrote:

Voss wrote:


Looking at GW releases, variety has definitely gone down. Both in what's produced overall (replacements come and we get lots of variations of the same thing (6 ork buggies, marines with rifle replacements, eldar wraith wraith wraith), but the same holes remain in ranges) and what's in a box. Set bodies with swap X weapon for Y weapon.

It's very true - GW plastic kits are less varied than before in the poses, but that's not really a problem - the material is still easy to work and you can always convert a bit to make them different.

Otherwise, it's still funny to see people complaining about that when you know the metal sisters are more than quite rigid with the same poses repeating themselves over and over (and a real pain in the ass to convert). True sisters players know these on the Warhammer Community will already be a huge improvement compared to now (and soon before ?).

On a more serious note, when you have miniatures with floating long piece of clothes, it's better to have a specific set pose that is meant to be used with set arms so that the whole still looks coherent. Unless you want to have a miniature that looks like it's caught in a chaotic wind blowing in all directions at the same time. So I believe this design choice is actually made for the sake of having better looking miniatures.

"True Sisters players" were perhaps looking forward to more than a slight improvement on the posing/variety score from 20+ year old metals...

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:

Voss wrote:


Looking at GW releases, variety has definitely gone down. Both in what's produced overall (replacements come and we get lots of variations of the same thing (6 ork buggies, marines with rifle replacements, eldar wraith wraith wraith), but the same holes remain in ranges) and what's in a box. Set bodies with swap X weapon for Y weapon.

It's very true - GW plastic kits are less varied than before in the poses, but that's not really a problem - the material is still easy to work and you can always convert a bit to make them different.

Otherwise, it's still funny to see people complaining about that when you know the metal sisters are more than quite rigid with the same poses repeating themselves over and over (and a real pain in the ass to convert). True sisters players know these on the Warhammer Community will already be a huge improvement compared to now (and soon before ?).

On a more serious note, when you have miniatures with floating long piece of clothes, it's better to have a specific set pose that is meant to be used with set arms so that the whole still looks coherent. Unless you want to have a miniature that looks like it's caught in a chaotic wind blowing in all directions at the same time. So I believe this design choice is actually made for the sake of having better looking miniatures.

"True Sisters players" were perhaps looking forward to more than a slight improvement on the posing/variety score from 20+ year old metals...

I’ll take a slight improvement in posing with a massive improvement everywhere else.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's the norm for lots of games, including 40k for a significant time.

Due to limitations in casting and production. Do you think GW created monopose Orks for the 2nd Ed starter set because they thought it'd be cool, or because their ability to make plastic miniatures wasn't what it is now?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It's the norm for lots of games, including 40k for a significant time.

Due to limitations in casting and production. Do you think GW created monopose Orks for the 2nd Ed starter set because they thought it'd be cool, or because their ability to make plastic miniatures wasn't what it is now?

The same is true though for your own criticisms of the currently previewed pics. It's obviously a judgement call though whether you think flowing robes and ribbons, dynamic poses, etc are worth the limited variety of poses possible out of the box without moderately more effort.

 Irbis wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
has GW done any kneeling models in recent years - I have a few great Sisters from another compnay - several kneeling and look great.

I think the last one was the Space Marine Devastator Squad.

Actually last were Primaris snipers from Shadowspear...

There's also the Tau Breacher Team - but you're right that the Eliminators are kneeling and recent.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:


"True Sisters players" were perhaps looking forward to more than a slight improvement on the posing/variety score from 20+ year old metals...

I’ll take a slight improvement in posing with a massive improvement everywhere else.

Pretty much - plastic is already a massive improvement from metal, really. I got rid of my 200+ metal sisters precisely because of these future plastic kits. Starting over with that material will be much more fun than trying to convert/build the metal ones.

Good gods, the salt... Dakka, you gotta cut back, you’re gonna poison yourself.

They look fantastic. Great sculpts.

 Elbows wrote:
Can i put in a silly guess as to why?

Enter: Conspiracy Mode

Rewind back to a couple of months before GW actually announced the return of Sisters of Battle. If you recall there was a somewhat bizarre burst of third-party Sisters-styled Kickstarters. I remember at least two Kickstarters and another release from Raging Heroes(?) etc. Anyway there was a bizarre glut of Sisters of Battle releases from everyone but GW. I think we had Sisters of the Burning Rose from Anvil, the Shieldwolf War Maidens and one of the "baddest chicks in the galaxy" releases or some such.

Then a month or two later GW confesses they're going to make the army and unlike any other thing they've done - they give people a year or more heads up?

I genuinely think that somewhere, someone slipped up and the word got out (albeit very minimally) where GW were going. I feel like the third-party companies dove on the news. GW then responded by throwing out their news way too early (they weren't exactly short on releases or news and had little to no reason to do so...) to try to stall players from buying up all the third-party sisters stuff.

It may not have been the case, but it was awfully suspicious timing...

This seems likely. If they had done the same thing when the 5th edition Space Wolves codex was released, there would have been far fewer dodgy resin not-Thunderwolves on gaming tables around the world...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chopstick wrote:
More modular kit just meant the designer had to spend more time brainstorming..

Not exactly. Because of the casting limitations of plastic, you're essentially forced to choose between 'super-modular' or 'Super-detailed'. Making both, particularly with details like flowing robes, is practically impossible. This is precisely the reason that GW haven't done plastic sisters before now (as stated by Jes Goodwin on multiple occasions)... so long as GW was focused on producing modular models, there was just no practical way to make plastic sisters without a considerably redesign, which nobody wanted. These models literally only happened now because of GW's shift away from modular models and back towards less customisable but more detailed models. We're essentially back in the same design ethos as existed when the models were made of metal, just updated to plastic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ekwatts wrote:

But hey, guess some people need something to complain about.

GW: Here are some extremely detailed, dynamically posed miniatures for your army.
Customer: HOW VERY DARE YOU

etc.

It's certainly easier to dismiss it as people looking for things to complain about than to understand that different people like different things. For some, the ease of customisation with modular minis is more important than having this level of detail. And for everyone who appreciates dynamically-posed models, there's someone who dislikes having every heavy weapon model in the army look identical.

It's not 'needing something to complain about'... it's just having different preferences.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:


I think the old multipart kits did look bad, but that’s entirely subjective. I’d rather have beautifully sculpted single pose minis than multi pose action figure style. Again, subjective.

Here’s where we fundamentally disagree ...

Making an arm or a head fit onto a torso it wasn’t designed for, is not difficult and does not require “significant resculpting”. I’m still thinking though, based on the style of these miniatures, that we could be looking at Shadowspear style single pose sculpts here and more customisable boxes will follow.

Aren't you basically pining for the days of metal or resin then?

The 2nd edition guard for example had great natural poses and flowing lines. When a model was running it looked great because the whole model was sculpted in a running pose, not just the legs. They got repetitive (especially in a guard army!) but at least you could take them out of the blister, prime them, and get to work.

The problem with mono-pose multi-part plastics is they're just as repetitive, but now you have to spend a night or two assembling them before you can even get to painting.

And unlike the multipart, multi-pose ones, assembling is a real chore, where only Head X32 can fit onto body Q44 and heaven help you if you accidentally put gun barrel Bx22 on Rifle Q17.

Either give me lego like kits where anything can go anywhere, or give me one piece models, don't give me the worst of both worlds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ERJAK wrote:
I've always wanted to do an infantry horde army of all 1 sculpt and 1 pose just to mess with people's OCD.

50 orcs or dwarves, 1 pose, 7GBP.

Go nuts man!

https://em4miniatures.com/collections/plastic-fantasy-miniatures

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
[
The 2nd edition guard for example had great natural poses and flowing lines. When a model was running it looked great because the whole model was sculpted in a running pose, not just the legs. They got repetitive (especially in a guard army!) but at least you could take them out of the blister, prime them, and get to work.

After clipping off all the metal vents and filing down the mold lines. At least they were still lead?

 Melissia wrote:

 xttz wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
I've always wanted to do an infantry horde army of all 1 sculpt and 1 pose just to mess with people's OCD.

Just hunt down the 2nd edition 40k starter set on ebay

Now now, no need to try to cost ERJAK hundreds of dollars.

I have many of those orks somewhere around here. I once used 30 of them (and 90? of the grots) in a Zone Mortalis game.

I wasn’t even around when 2nd came out.

Yeah, that enormous horde of identical grots was something to behold.

I had to have them in six squads because of the ZM rules. I think I managed to fit two of them in the deployment zone (along with my other Orks) and got another squad in from reserves. The other 45 sat out the entire time.

They couldn't figure out how to make plastic robes? Please. Zvezda cracked that problem years ago with their Ring of Rule Wizard. ...by splitting it into about 27 fiddly pieces. Stupid frustrating wizard.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They couldn't figure out how to make plastic robes? Please. Zvezda cracked that problem years ago with their Ring of Rule Wizard. ...by splitting it into about 27 fiddly pieces. Stupid frustrating wizard.

It's not 'figuring out plastic robes'... it's figuring out plastic robes (or hanging sleeves, in this specific example) that don't look weird unless they're assembled in one specific position. Monopose minis get around that problem by only offering one way to assemble them, but when GW's design ethos was for multi-part models, it was an issue.

And no, Zvezda didn't 'crack' that problem. That wizard looks ridiculous unless the arms are positioned just right.

Insaniak, given the small size text I'm pretty sure Bob was joking and didn't think that Zvezda cracked the problem, they just wanted to poke fun at the 27 pieces ^^.

Indeed, I missed the part that was written for ants...

I think they look great. Having replaced all my Space Marines with Primaris mods. I don't have a problem with them being essentially mono-posed, as long as they look good and have the required options. Besides this is current GW. We'll probably get 4-5 different characters and differently posed easy build variants. Maybe even a box-set of some kind.

 insaniak wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
They couldn't figure out how to make plastic robes? Please. Zvezda cracked that problem years ago with their Ring of Rule Wizard. ...by splitting it into about 27 fiddly pieces. Stupid frustrating wizard.

It's not 'figuring out plastic robes'... it's figuring out plastic robes (or hanging sleeves, in this specific example) that don't look weird unless they're assembled in one specific position. Monopose minis get around that problem by only offering one way to assemble them, but when GW's design ethos was for multi-part models, it was an issue.

And no, Zvezda didn't 'crack' that problem. That wizard looks ridiculous unless the arms are positioned just right.

The robe 'solution' would be to just make the robes over the shoulders be a separate piece, like the pauldrons on a marine model. Leave a few places where it could slot in on the torso robes, that could be painted as wrinkles/folds, and you'd be set.

 insaniak wrote:


This is precisely the reason that GW haven't done plastic sisters before now (as stated by Jes Goodwin on multiple occasions)...

And that is probably the most ridiculous excuse I've ever heard. He probably also had some cool insight excuse for why plastic Aspect warrior isn't a thing for decade.

 Mmmpi wrote:

The robe 'solution' would be to just make the robes over the shoulders be a separate piece, like the pauldrons on a marine model. Leave a few places where it could slot in on the torso robes, that could be painted as wrinkles/folds, and you'd be set.

If the robe solution was to 'just' do anything, we would have seen plastic Sisters a decade ago.


There are plenty of ways it could have been done. But if Jes Goodwin says that there was no way to do it well, at least with GW's manufacturing capabilities, it's probably fairly safe to take that as written.

*looks at Dark Angel and Black Templar plastics*

Umm...

I'll take the "Nobody at the office feel like sculpting some female space (marine) nun and space elves that day" reason over Mr Jes Goodwin's excuse.

And by the record looking at Death Guard and GSC, I can see that somebody at the office do feel like sculpting way too many models that day.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*looks at Dark Angel and Black Templar plastics*

Umm...

Unlike Sisters though, the Black Templar and Dark Angel models don't have free-flowing robe sleeves.
A hood, robed torso and tabard are one thing - as it's hard to assemble a model in a way where they won't be hanging vertically - however, given how many ways an arm can be posed though, it's really easy to have the sleeve hanging at an odd, unnatural angle.

Man... am I the only one just looking forward to some plastic sisters here?
I totally agree it would be nice if they are more customizable, (and they still might, all we’ve seen are mostly renders of what could be easy build) but I’m not sure it’s worth getting mad about, especially as they have shown hardly anything to suggest what we’re getting as a whole.

We’re getting plastic sisters! That wouldn’t have even happened a couple of years ago! Be happy about something!

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Man... am I the only one just looking forward to some plastic sisters here?
I totally agree it would be nice if they are more customizable, (and they still might, all we’ve seen are mostly renders of what could be easy build) but I’m not sure it’s worth getting mad about, especially as they have shown hardly anything to suggest what we’re getting as a whole.

We’re getting plastic sisters! That wouldn’t have even happened a couple of years ago! Be happy about something!

No you’re not. I’m really looking forward to them...

... but this is Dakka. You can’t say you like something without somebody trying to prove you’re wrong.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

... but this is Dakka. You can’t say you like something without somebody trying to prove you’re wrong.

Somebody pointing out that they would prefer multipart models isn't saying that you're wrong for liking these ones.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*looks at Dark Angel and Black Templar plastics*

Umm...

The sleeves were the specific thing that Jes always said was a problem. Neither DA nor BT plastics have sleeves.


The problem is the way loose sleeves hang. You have to sculpt them to hang a certain way, which restricts the arm to only being put on the model that one way. When your goal is multipart, poseable models, that doesn't work. You just wind up with multipart models that only go together one way.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Man... am I the only one just looking forward to some plastic sisters here?

No. Lots of us are looking forward to them, but a lot of us also lament the style that GW has fallen into with optionless monopose miniatures.

Turns out GW didn't lose the Chapterhouse case.

We did.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
... but this is Dakka. You can’t say you like something without somebody trying to prove you’re wrong.

Weirdly enough, pointing out how wrong you are (and you are), actually proves you right.