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I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
Sqorgar wrote: I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
Agreed, though the face doesn't look nearly as weird on these when the brand isn't as prominent as it appears on the renders.
I think even just the boots would do it - and then up on the official facebook and hope it's not too late :p It's covering up those awful shoulders and adding some dynamism that is lacking from the shorts/stiff scrolls that really adds to the look.
It’s funny, it seems to me that every reaction to the plug ports on the arms and legs has been pretty much “It’s either black carapace or nothing! No mid-points or halfway houses ever!”
Seriously though, the Black Carapace does more than interface the marine with his armour. It’s very nearly a second nervous system and endocrine system all on its own, able to report diagnostics on individual organs and systemic hormone levels as well as allowing the armour to feed data back to the marine such that he becomes instantly aware of changes in his surroundings in a way that someone wearing regular armour couldn’t possibly do, almost like they weren’t wearing armour at all. There’s a reason that a marine chapter can lose several of the other implants to mutation and carry on but losing the carapace causes them to disband, much like losing the progenoids would.
These plug things appear to be one-way, sensing nerve impulses as they arrive at the muscles, and not much more if I’m reading the article right. This is a much lesser technology but definitely a good thing and also exactly what fanatics dedicated to a cause but unwilling to become transhuman to facilitate it would use. They also don’t mean that other possibilities have suddenly ceased to exist; inquisitors and other folk with a need to sometimes not be distinctive in a crowd could have bodysuits with all kinds of sensors and whatnot to run the armour, but which can be removed at any time. They would still be a bit of a compromise though, since the armour couldn’t be as responsive.
Basically, wearing power armour with a force-feedback suit makes it feel like wearing heavy armour. The SoB plug-in way makes it feel more like a heavy overcoat, while the marine way makes it feel like a silk shirt. Of course wearing power armour without any interface always feels like being inside your own coffin. Because you are.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
Sqorgar wrote: I like this a lot more. It's still not completely there, but it is closer. With the red executioner mask, boots instead of crocs, and maybe half the plugs, I think we'd have a winner.
...echoing agreement. i would certainly like them more with this look, especially with the tattered additions.
TiamatRoar wrote: I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
Kinda wanted to add to this line- to me it's not a direct anything to BDSM, but im sure a lot of people react to it that way when they see whips now. my murmuring in thread about Flagellants has me thinking that for all we know they were going for an over the top religious reference perhaps to even mock it that over time has been far more connected to bdsm then the actual religious connotation. maybe that's just me because i like the religious stuff in 40k a lot.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.
Not the person that they were replying to, though. If you read the quote that the poster you're replying to quoted, it's "Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them."
I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
Old dark eldar stuff, old ork cheerleaders, etc...all the lazy, one dimensional sex joke models are pretty much gone, and have been for 15 years. The Repentia were just a weird little decade old relic of gws olden days.
Lord Damocles wrote: Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them.
The artwork from Codex: Witch Hunters certainly isn't what I'd consider sexy...
....It never ceases to amaze me when people bring out the willful ignorance.
What could POSSIBLY be considered sexual about ladies with barely covered breasts and full face masks led by a lady wearing a domino mask, Madonna cone bustier and holding a pair of whips.
WHAT.
COULD THEY HAVE POSSIBLY.
BEEN GOING FOR THERE?
The unit concept, aside from maybe the phrasing of "Mistress of Repentance" and the idea of her having whips....yeah, I guess there's nothing inherenty sexual about that? Certainly when someone posed it to that concept artist, that's not where their brain was. But if the model designer wasn't going for a BDSM sex joke, then Fifty Shades was an innocent rom-com that people took entirely the wrong way!
[spoiler]
Sim-Life wrote: Just about everyone here who dislikes the model has said that they wanted models closer to Kopinski's art. If you find that attractive then I don't ever want to be in the same room as you when you watch Hellraiser.
Not the person that they were replying to, though. If you read the quote that the poster you're replying to quoted, it's "Are the old models really considered all that sexy?
Ok, they're quite top-heavy, but I'm more inclined to think that was because they're just not very well sculpted than because the sculpter was giggling about boobies while working on them."
I actually DO think the sculpter was probably "giggling about boobies while working on them", just not in the "I like boobies!" context so much as because the old original models were clearly a purposeful parody of BDSM sexuality. ...at least, I hope they were meant to be a tongue in cheek parody but maybe someone really did have a bondage fetish and was just really bad at sculpting them in a sexy manner.
It's interesting that you forgot to mention the bit where I specifically referenced the artwork, but whatever...
Even if the original models and/or artwork do have BDSM references - which they probably do - does that make them sexy necessarily*? The monsters from the Silent Hill games have all sorts of sex references worked into their designs, but I'm not sure anybody would describe any of those as sexy (for example).
*and if it did, would that necessarily even be a problem?
I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.
This is more like it. That is an excellent compromise between Battle Sister and Flagellating BDSM caricature. Only further mod I might suggest is making the boots more like combat boots, i.e. calf high or so.
I dig it. I will definitely be busting out the putty to try and go this direction myself if the final figures are still the same as the previews.
The figures as is are decent, but can definitely be improved.
Having said that, I would still prefer something closer to the Kopinski art.
Lord Damocles wrote: The monsters from the Silent Hill games have all sorts of sex references worked into their designs, but I'm not sure anybody would describe any of those as sexy (for example).
This is a dangerous question to invite on Al Gore's internet.
*and if it did, would that necessarily even be a problem?
All things being equal, no, but that's not quite the scenario we have here. While GW have done a genuinely admirable job of balancing older norms with developing perspectives, we can't pretend WH40k is without some old legacy weirdnesses. It's not an accident that the defining male archetype of this universe is essentially asexual while their female counterpart are writhing around in bondage straps and gimp masks.
That doesn't mean we have to throw the whole IP or its history away or anything, but it's something to bear in mind when making decisions about where to go from here. I'm all for kinky weirdness, but there are at least two other faction types who can traffic in that. It doesn't have to be the defining feature of basically the only female - ahem - dominated one.
I therefore propose we a) level off the kinky weirdness off the Sisters about where it is, b) crank it up to a million in the Dark Eldar, c) stop wasting the potential of everything Slaanesh related, and hire some really energetic depravity enthusiasts to go to town in that direction.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/23 21:31:38
Yea, someone a while back posted that Battle Sisters were one of the most grim dark factions in 40k and Sisters of Repentia should reflect that and I'm just thinking "What? Slaanesh? Dark Elder? Hello?"
Mr_Rose wrote: It’s funny, it seems to me that every reaction to the plug ports on the arms and legs has been pretty much “It’s either black carapace or nothing! No mid-points or halfway houses ever!”
Then you missed some reactions.
The plug ports add something, and in general this looks like a much better take on the concept.
Yeah, I really liked the plug ports. I think it's a good addition to both the mini and the lore. They look like they're ex-power armor wearers. Which is good, because they are exactly that.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
I don't really like the new models (though I never was too thrilled with old ones either...)
I think the poses are fine enough, and I like their physique, but I think their attire is holding them back. Even though some of them have bodies that are in movement, I feel like their clothing makes them look more static than they actually are (I guess I would have liked to see more flowing cloth & chains that accentuate their dynamic posing). Also, I think their tunic/shorts make them look a bit more emotionally "contained" in a way, rather than free-flowing fanatics striving for redemption.
I do like the head with the executioner hood with the dangling parts at the bottom, and hope their are enough hoods like that for an entire squad. The bare heads look angry enough, but at the same time they seem a bit too tame for the unit's ideological purpose?I know one has a literal fleur-de-lis supposedly branded on her forehead, but for some reason it just doesn't strike me as fanatical.
But then again, maybe being extremely fanatical isn't what they're trying to convey with the new models? Maybe I'm looking for something that isn't supposed to be there, so that's probably why I'm a bit disappointed.
-----
My personal preference for heads would be what's found in this image. Hood, chains, and more mentally off-putting faces.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/24 00:06:39
TiamatRoar wrote: Yea, someone a while back posted that Battle Sisters were one of the most grim dark factions in 40k and Sisters of Repentia should reflect that and I'm just thinking "What? Slaanesh? Dark Elder? Hello?"
Dark Eldar and Slaanesh are so OBVIOUS about it all though. The Imperium is much more insidious about it because they try to justify their atrocities. A slaaneshi cultist will stab you just cause he can, an Inquisitor will stab you and tell you you deserved it and it was necessary for the safety of the Imperium.
stahly wrote: Wow, lots of sexism and toxic masculinity here.
Disliking the new models = "sexism and toxic masculinity"? Real low bar for entry there stahly.
Complaints about them not looking feminine enough were certainly a clear case of toxic masculinity.
Not really. A lot of people like the Hellraiser-y body horror torture of them and part of horror is and always has been sexuality. If people like the body horror juxtaposed against femininity then thats a valid opinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/24 00:33:44
Lord Damocles wrote: The monsters from the Silent Hill games have all sorts of sex references worked into their designs, but I'm not sure anybody would describe any of those as sexy (for example).
This is a dangerous question to invite on Al Gore's internet.
*and if it did, would that necessarily even be a problem?
All things being equal, no, but that's not quite the scenario we have here. While GW have done a genuinely admirable job of balancing older norms with developing perspectives, we can't pretend WH40k is without some old legacy weirdnesses. It's not an accident that the defining male archetype of this universe is essentially asexual while their female counterpart are writhing around in bondage straps and gimp masks.
That doesn't mean we have to throw the whole IP or its history away or anything, but it's something to bear in mind when making decisions about where to go from here. I'm all for kinky weirdness, but there are at least two other faction types who can traffic in that. It doesn't have to be the defining feature of basically the only female - ahem - dominated one.
I therefore propose we a) level off the kinky weirdness off the Sisters about where it is, b) crank it up to a million in the Dark Eldar, c) stop wasting the potential of everything Slaanesh related, and hire some really energetic depravity enthusiasts to go to town in that direction.
Looking at the latest Slaanesh release, that last part is rather unlikely. The Dark Prince's followers and daemons have become more and more modest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/24 00:54:51
I feel like people are perhaps being a bit too down on the BDSM overtones of the original models because they think that A) pandering sexuality is bad and B) it's a bit silly because its over the top, but I think they are missing the point of it. Repression breeds obsession. These nuns are obviously supposed to be in the spirit of the devout man flagellating himself with a whip while obsessively chanting hail marys. He may not be a masochist, but the belief is masochistic in nature (we are born into sin and it is only through self harm and denial that we can find salvation, and all that). It is because these nuns can not have normal lives, with normal relationships, that they fill this void in their existence with this religious obsession, and because they can not have sex, that repression bubbles up to the surface in weird ways - primarily through sadism and masochism. They are two sides of the same coin. In their beliefs, they are submissive, which causes them to lash out and become dominant against those they see beneath them - the bullied always becomes the bully. There is nobody with a less healthy sexuality than those who claim to be spiritually and morally perfect, as they must hide their imperfections. Their sexual appetites are never whetted, never gone, and they grow behind the scenes, consuming them.
I think the premise of their sexuality manifesting itself through their zealotry to be, not only realistic, but also interesting. They are so far gone that they don't even realize what boundaries they've crossed. They are too close to it realize how far away from normalcy they've drifted. Christianity, for example, worships a naked man nailed to the cross wearing a crown of thorns - blood dripping from the wounds as his emaciated form hangs there dying - in many cases, that version of Jesus is ATTRACTIVE and even sexualized! That doesn't seem weird to us because we've simply become numb to that particular imagery - but when you think about it, it's WAY fethed up. You've got children hanging out in the presence of realistic depictions of torture and sacrifice, putting on Easter plays! And if you put that in a miniature game as symbology for some faction, people would claim it too far fetched and fetishized - it is fetishized. It is literally a fetish, in the religious definition of the word. That's the point.
And that's just the symbol of Christ (whom we metaphorically cannibalize by ingesting his body and blood). When you get to some of the really fethed up things the church has done (just start at the Spanish Inquisition and work your way backwards), you start to realize that our own concept of religion is pretty grimdark in and of itself. If you want to make a grimdark satirical commentary on a religious order of nuns, you've got to go pretty freaking extreme just to reach the base line of depravity and sadism that already exists in real life.
I think the people who complain about a group of BSDM nuns being unrealistic depictions of women are missing the fact that it is absolutely a realistic depiction of religious zealotry. I should point out that I went to a Catholic school that was run by a nun who, almost in a stereotypical way, invoked sadistic punishments against the kids, and I never once saw her smile - not even on picture day.
Let's not get this thread locked by having it devolve in to political discussions? It's kind of a thread that's important to a lot of people.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
For a decade, I have STRONGLY advocated that GW take the most conservative approach possible for releasing plastic Sisters.
One of my worst fears was that Repentia would be retconned out of existence or rendered totally unrecognizable.
Upon seeing the new renders, I’m ... actually pleased.
These look really good to me. The word “generic” has cropped up ITT but to me they look very evocative. We were never gonna get the future gothic bondage of certain C:WH art. Nor would that even fit with contemporary 40k. What we did get, however, is something very true to the core concept.
IMO these Repentia are actually better than the originals (which I also love).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/24 02:58:44
OK, I'm officially putting a moratorium on the term 'Soccer Mom' in this thread. This is such an absurd comparison to the models in question that it's impossible to see it as anything other than an attempt to be deliberately controversial.
You're free to dislike the models if you don't like the styling, but let's not get carried away, hmm?
I am starting to warm up to the redesign a little bit. With the right paintjob they seem like they'd turn out okay. I had just always pictured them as being more emaciated and savage, but these look like they were pumping iron alongside Arnold Schwarzenegger at venice beach. I had pictured a more wiry athletic strength for the sisters than bodybuilding style. But whatever, the deed is done.
I plan on speaking my opinion of these in the clearest way possible-by buying them.
Having played sisters back in 2nd edition (preordered the book and every initial release-first gaming items I ever preordered!), I felt like the addition of the Repentia took the army in 3rd(?) in the wrong direction in terms of sexualizing the army.
Regarding the original models/art: It is fairly telling that the penitent self flagilating women were depicted in a hyper sexualized manner, but similar male equivalents were in full body robes (empire flagellants) or still wearing power armor (death company).
Eh sexualization in a case like this is in the eye of the beholder.
What matters is, these renders get the point across that these women are religious fanatics on an ever more fanatical plane than their armored counterparts.
I was kinda hoping for something more along those lines, something to tie the Repentia into the greater SoB aesthetic, but I suppose that's what pro-create is for.
I think that most recent revision in this thread, where the tops have tattered sleeves and it's more robelike, are absolutely perfect and what I will try to convert mine to. I don't think that will be particularly hard, and the worst joins can be concealed with purity seals\beads\maybe chain with bling hanging off.
I'm with Melisandre though, I like the plugs.
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