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Anyone think Sisters Of Silence and Inquisitor units will be rolled into this codex?

 Sim-Life wrote:
Anyone think Sisters Of Silence and Inquisitor units will be rolled into this codex?

Sisters of Silence belong with the custodes.

Hereticus inquisitors would fit well enough with the sisters though - most of their units are already in the dex. But it won't happen without a model release.

 Manchu wrote:
The bases are covered.

Which just means there's room to add specialized/flavorful/fun units, and it's really not hard to think of them, all depending on how you see Sisters. Paladins of the Emperor? Holy soldiers of the Imperial Church? Insane zealots rushing forth to kill the enemy? Can add unit types based on any or all of those concepts quite easily. A group of elite Sisters whom wield power spears and storm shields to guard the doors of temples, for example. A fast attack group of Sisters whom set up ambushes with massed flamers, gaining the ability to deep strike and move in to flamer range and an advantage on their first shooting phase of the game. A heavy support group of Sisters whom operate what are basically a stationary exorcist missile platform similar to a mortar barrage, playing a symphony of destruction and mayhem. Troops choice consisting of Sisters with twin bolt pistols and a chainsword based on that old Repentia concept art, trained for close quarters combat in urban environments, but not as elite as Seraphim. A new HQ unit that isn't a canoness or a named character.

Like, the possibilities are pretty vast with how you could expand on the Sisters of Battle list, which has been practically unchanged for the past 20 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Anyone think Sisters Of Silence and Inquisitor units will be rolled into this codex?

No.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Anyone think Sisters Of Silence and Inquisitor units will be rolled into this codex?

They're different factions, so no.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Anyone think Sisters Of Silence and Inquisitor units will be rolled into this codex?

No.

Sisters of silence deserve their own book, and if that's to difficult, to be with the Custodes. personally i wish they would have their own book, but i imagine that's not happening.

while you could argue the Inquisition could come back in like the start of recombining for Witch Hunters, i don't think that's in the cards either. partly so more books can be sold, but also because it seems like this is going to be Adeptus Ministorum, which the Inquisition is a differing organization. on top of all the stuff the inquisition lost into 8th... seems like a round-up book is what the inquisition is gonna get for sometime.

...i really wish both of these groups would get new stuff to work with, but i doubt it's happening here.

SeanDrake wrote:
Speaking as an old inquisition player whose army got sunk by the release of sisters last time I hope this time turns out differently but well who knows.

Inquisition were sunk by the failure of the 54mm game - though it's fair to say that cramming the sisters in (and 'borrowing' some of the models*) wasn't enough to save them either.

(* Pre-WH sisters had three minor order units. Models were made suggesting at some point a full print version was planned, but ultimately two were used to pad out the inquisition range and the third was dropped, along with most of the priesthood and named characters when the sisters were put into witch hunters instead).

Not arguing that Sisters shouldn’t get new units, just that there is no obvious missing unit.

That makes it tough to come up with something new that isn’t just a gimmick.

Sororita Centurians! Thundersisters!

 Manchu wrote:
Not arguing that Sisters shouldn’t get new units, just that there is no obvious missing unit.

First step would be looking at what the sisters don't have, or can't do.

To pick four, of quite frankly many :
-They have no way to inflict or resist mortal wounds, other than by pre-emptively applying a stratagem to repentia and then getting them all killed in close combat in the same phase.
-They have no source of or way to counter modifiers to hit. Similarly they have no counter to invulnerable saves other than weight of bolter fire, or even multi-wound weapons to deal with FnP.
-They cannot redeploy units quickly - the majority of the army is 6" on foot or embarked in a rhino chassis. They have almost no deepstrike damage or deepstrike counter-options
-Their only options to wound T8 on better than a 4+ consist of a penitent engine charge or a weapon-combo stratagem that generally works out worse than just spending the CP on a reroll.

A.T. wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Not arguing that Sisters shouldn’t get new units, just that there is no obvious missing unit.

First step would be looking at what the sisters don't have, or can't do.

To pick four, of quite frankly many :
-They have no way to inflict or resist mortal wounds, other than by pre-emptively applying a stratagem to repentia and then getting them all killed in close combat in the same phase.
-They have no source of or way to counter modifiers to hit. Similarly they have no counter to invulnerable saves other than weight of bolter fire, or even multi-wound weapons to deal with FnP.
-They cannot redeploy units quickly - the majority of the army is 6" on foot or embarked in a rhino chassis. They have almost no deepstrike damage or deepstrike counter-options
-Their only options to wound T8 on better than a 4+ consist of a penitent engine charge or a weapon-combo stratagem that generally works out worse than just spending the CP on a reroll.

I think the first two could be covered at least in part by expanding Acts of Faith. The mobility issue would best be covered by giving them more vehicle options. Giving them a drop ship similar to the Corvus Blackstar (or even just giving them access to the Corvus Blackstar) would be a good start. I also like the idea of giving Sisters biker units. Your last point would just be a matter of adding more heavy weapons options to sisters.

I don't find the "gimmick" thing very satisfying as an argument. Pretty much all the units we have are "gimmick" units to an extent. In fact the worst unit we have, Celestians, are bad because they DON'T have a gimmick nad are unsatisfying and bland and have no real use.

 Manchu wrote:
Not arguing that Sisters shouldn’t get new units, just that there is no obvious missing unit.

MBTs? Anti armor units? Scouts? Cavalry/Bikers? Flyers of any kind? Anything not bolter/flamer/melta? I mean, those are just the obvious ones. You could argue that some of those might dilute the "specialness" and the strong/weak points combo of the army, but that's another thing altogether.

They could (and probably should) get real crazy...

Melissia wrote:. In Warhammer 40,000 Jackie Chan would be 7 foot tall and his base would suggest he just karate chopped a landraider in two.

Am I the only one who wants this in mini form?

 Sim-Life wrote:
Anyone think Sisters Of Silence and Inquisitor units will be rolled into this codex?

They shouldn't be, but I can totally see Sisters of Silence getting rolled in.

Women, Power Armour, Boltguns, don't like psykers, Rhinos; don't have any other idea what to do with them...

If they're lucky they might get a Centura or Silent Judge model out of it.

Racerguy180 wrote:

Melissia wrote:. In Warhammer 40,000 Jackie Chan would be 7 foot tall and his base would suggest he just karate chopped a landraider in two.

Am I the only one who wants this in mini form?

You jumbled up your quote there, I never said that

 Melissia wrote:
I don't find the "gimmick" thing very satisfying as an argument. Pretty much all the units we have are "gimmick" units to an extent. In fact the worst unit we have, Celestians, are bad because they DON'T have a gimmick nad are unsatisfying and bland and have no real use.

Celestians definitely need work.

I mean, if I’m thinking of the right unit, they’re shooty troops distinguished as being Veterans by.....and extra attack? Oh, and a few extra special weapons for the squad.

Less than satisfactory, I’m sure you’ll agree Dear Reader.

How best to correct this? I’m not sure. Immediate concepts? Some kind of INV save? Perhaps Exploding Sixes to get more hits? Some bonus to wounding? Perhaps they always have ObSec, regardless of comparative numbers?

They already get an invulnerable save.

The main problem is they're a shooty unit that isn't any better than the basic troop (at that job) but have to pay for bonus melee stats. That's never a winning combination.

Perhaps if they could take melee weapon (chainswords and 2-4 power weapons), they'd be a useful generalist squad, but even then...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How best to correct this? I’m not sure. Immediate concepts? Some kind of INV save? Perhaps Exploding Sixes to get more hits? Some bonus to wounding? Perhaps they always have ObSec, regardless of comparative numbers?

What about artificier armor + rosarius + master-crafted bolter + blessed/special ammo?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I mean, if I’m thinking of the right unit, they’re shooty troops distinguished as being Veterans by.....and extra attack? Oh, and a few extra special weapons for the squad.

Extra attack, weapon skill, and leadership. Their weapons options are identical to those of the regular battle sister squad (who frankly need more guns at larger squad sizes).
Really it's hard to find a use other than being dead instead of the relic canoness.

Previous variants of celestians have been better at faith and carried banners - the latter would be more appealing if not for the current sisters 'blob up and die slowly' playstyle.

Yeah, I’d like to see veteran shooty units get better at shooting for a change.
Or give Celestians blessed bolter rounds and holy promethium or whatever, so they wound daemons and/or heretics* more easily.
Or why not both?

And we need a unit of ‘postulates’ that wear lighter armour because they haven’t been given their interface implants yet, led by a veteran sister in power armour, who only carry flamers because they can’t be trusted not to spray and pray (literally) just yet.

A dedicated anti-tank unit is a must, possibly some sisters on foot in the same light armour as the postulates but with grav-chutes for deep strike and twin inferno pistols, and seraphim training.

It would also be nice if you could declare a canoness to have been a former Seraphim or Celestian and give them the relevant special rules and wargear.


*heretics being anyone the Celestian shoots at because they can’t be wrong. Of course.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, I’d like to see veteran shooty units get better at shooting for a change.

Actually, Celestians were described in C:WH as the best fighters in the order-- close combat fighters. They had arguably more skill in combat than your average Marine did given the rules of the time, hitting Marines and other high Weapon Skill units more often than Marines did.

Then in 5th edition GW decided to try to shoehorn them in to being "bodyguards" but without giving Sisters anyone worth guarding. So this expensive unit (55 points) bodyguarded a 45 point (plus wargear) canoness who didn't do much for the army other than fill up a slot, or guarded Celestine, whom didn't need it and whom they couldn't keep up with due to a lack of jump packs. And this is AFTER they got a points decrease.

 Melissia wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Yeah, I’d like to see veteran shooty units get better at shooting for a change.

Actually, Celestians were described in C:WH as the best fighters in the order-- close combat fighters. They had arguably more skill in combat than your average Marine did given the rules of the time, hitting Marines and other high Weapon Skill units more often than Marines did.

Then in 5th edition GW decided to try to shoehorn them in to being "bodyguards" but without giving Sisters anyone worth guarding. So this expensive unit bodyguarded a 45 point (plus wargear) canoness who didn't do much for the army other than fill up a slot, or guarded Celestine, whom didn't need it and whom they couldn't keep up with due to a lack of jump packs.

I would prefer if they would return to their original concept an developed them from there. Make them a proper elite melee unit. At this point they can easily change their weapons.

On that, we both agree.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Or give Celestians blessed bolter rounds and holy promethium or whatever, so they wound daemons and/or heretics* more easily.
Or why not both?

They both exist, but are stratagems. Though one of them only works with stormbolters and the other only with psykers.

I want Celestian rough riders with exploding Lance's with the melta rule and storm shields. Oh! And they should get a 2+ save, due to their horses having barding and +1 toughness for being on horseback.

I know it won't happen, but I can dream.

As cool as it would be, I think robed Sisters with burning instruments mounted on horseback would be a bit politically touchy.

GW already said Celestians will be changing to give them a new gimmick or reason to be taken over other stuff.

I wonder to myself whether this will be a full Sisters only Codex, of if the Ecclisiarchy will be a good chunk.

I mean, if they don't include the rest of the Church, there goes Penitent engines, which I personally think are super neat.

As for what kind of units the Sisters could use, maybe bikes of some sort? A lot of people say they don't have rapid redeployment or whatnot. Maybe reflavor it as Canid attack packs with holy imagery grafted to them and bionics to give them flamer breath, directed by a single beastmaster sister on a vehicle of some sort.

We already know Penitent Engines are in. We've seen part of their new model.

Obispudkenobi wrote:
I don't think they are ports and are actually a futuristic form of nicotine patch, as is stated in the books Sisters are very heavy smokers and the repenta are just trying to quit, obviously that makes them cranky so they give them a chainsword and tell them to get on with it.

Nah, the disks are part of Repentia game, where they get points for striking enemies with them.

The very best thing in the sport/
There's a counter on each port/
So, strike it! Strike it!

Try to beat your very best score/
See if you can slay a whole lot more/
Strike it! Strike it!