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A.T. wrote:

 jake wrote:
It looks tome like her robes and accessories are swaying in the wind. I don't see a problem.

If they looked lightweight, and the wind theme was carried through with hair or movement on the model it might work.

As is the model looks like it should be standing on a slope.

Perhaps her accessories have been anointed with oil from The Emperor's Drip Pan. Some say no matter what planet they're on they blow with the winds of Terra.

I was totally against the new repentia and defended a lot of even the tiny arguments but the slight sway of some censers on robes is REALLY nitpicky. Though I'm sure if they were straight down people would be complaining about it being too static.

Clipping off the giant mantle-thing seems reasonably easy, but if this is the only weapon options for a Canoness, I'm disappointed. It seems likely that we'd get one Canoness in a Big Box and one in a Clampack and a lot of whole model renders we've seen so far screams Big Box previews, at least to me.

 John Prins wrote:
Clipping off the giant mantle-thing seems reasonably easy, but if this is the only weapon options for a Canoness, I'm disappointed. It seems likely that we'd get one Canoness in a Big Box and one in a Clampack and a lot of whole model renders we've seen so far screams Big Box previews, at least to me.

Old Canoness should be a big box with one of those walker things Karamazof struts about in or was in the diorama a few pages back that doubles as a generic priest yelling pulpit.

Clampack should be a younger canonness with jump pack, power weapons and inferno/plasma pistol.

A.T. wrote:

 jake wrote:
It looks tome like her robes and accessories are swaying in the wind. I don't see a problem.

If they looked lightweight, and the wind theme was carried through with hair or movement on the model it might work.

As is the model looks like it should be standing on a slope.

Heavy things also sway in the wind. Did you not know that?

 jake wrote:
Heavy things also sway in the wind. Did you not know that?

I did indeed.
Still looks weird on the model. Probably because the perceived weight of the robes and censers would imply a strong wind, but the lack of twisting and combined with no movement in the cloth over the shoulders or head doesn't follow that through.

Yodhrin wrote:

 jake wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
The hate for the plasma is the sisters have the holy trinity as their thing and the handful of plasma weaponry is an abberation.
It's the principal of the matter and arguments of them being there and being modelled are irrelevant in the face of such principals. To support plasma is tantamount to heresy.

You're right.

But so many of the Sister's traditions are centered around GW not wanting to make new models and the writers making excuses for this. I feel like its time to leave at least some of that behind so the Sisters range can grow and evolve.

Does the origin really matter? It's a cool bit of background, just like all the other cool bits of background that made the setting seem different and interesting that were originally based in some business or manufacturing limitation of Ye Olden 90's. Abandoning the STC narrative to give every Imperial faction its own Specialsnowflakius Pattern vehicles hasn't been an improvement IMO, the result is stuff like the terribad DA landspeeders and the ludicrous hovercraft-thing for Skitarii. Functionally retconning away the idea that only the Imperial Navy operates proper in-atmosphere combat aircraft allowed them to add loads of(often derpy as feth lookin') flyers to the Marines, and of course once they had that option for the flagship faction everybody else "had" to get them as well. For my money, that also wasn't an improvement to the game.

Factions are defined as much by their limits as their strengths, and the more they "grow and evolve", the more homogeneous and uninteresting they become.

I have no doubt all the "we want random new stuffz" people will get exactly what they want eventually, and that Sisters ten years from now will look very little like the Sisters that made me fall in love with the faction back when they first launched, but can you not wait until their first actual plastic release is out of the way before clamouring for changes? It'd be nice to have access to a complete "proper" Sisters army in plastic before GW start to "improve" them.

I'm not "clamouring for changes" I'm noting that the only reason that the Sisters line has barely grown or evolved over 20 years is that GW didn't want to make models and devote resources to them, and thats why we have the ridiculous limitations that you think are so characterful and cool. That may be your opinion but its not one I share (and as someone who has been collecting and playing sisters since their very first release I'm as entitled to that opinion as you are). Sisters should have the chance to grow wand evolve in the same way literally every other army has. Dark Eldar benefited greatly from the introduction of Wracks, Razorwings, Chronos, Venoms and other units and weapons. Necrons were fleshed out for the better with Tomb Blades, Doom Scythes, Canoptek Wraiths, Arks, Lych Guard, Deathmarks, Stalkers and Barges. Tyranids grew with Mawlocks and Trygons, harpies and Tyranofex, Haruspex, Broodords, tyranid Prime, Swarmlord's, winged Hive tyrants and more. None of these options are out of place. Some are better than others, but all were fully embraced by players and seen as welcome additions to the armies while expanding what the armies were. Why should sisters be any different? Especially after 20 years? Especially after years of arbitrary limitations?

Enshrining bad fluff that limits an army just because the writers were looking for a way to justify the lack of models and options is just dumb. Bad fluff isn't sacred. It can and should be ignored and changed to improve the army. That doesn't mean introducing a bunch of "derpy" stuff, or throwing away what Sisters are or what makes them unique at all (and what makes them unique is 100% not their weird limitations). It means growing and evolving in new, fun and flavorful ways.

Just like every army has been allowed to.

Why would anyone want Sisters to have fewer options rather than more? Also, does plasma not burn in 40k now? Why do they have to use only flamers or meltas to burn heretics?

I just worry about DA players. Traditionally, the power armored, dress wearing girls who use plasma are Dark Angels rather than Adepta Soroitas.

 EnTyme wrote:
Why would anyone want Sisters to have fewer options rather than more? Also, does plasma not burn in 40k now? Why do they have to use only flamers or meltas to burn heretics?

It depends how it's done. I don't mind the Holy Trinity, would I prefer to see it gone? Yes. Do I mind if it stays? No. I don't want to see Sisters become some kind of mid-point between Guardsmen and Marines but I don't think the Holy Trinity is what defines the faction. It's entirely possible to write and army book that includes stuff like plasma pistols while also remaining thematic by leaning the army options towards the Trinity but not making it the sole source of weaponry.

In fact the excorcist isn't a part of the trinity but no one complains about that ruining the factions identity. Most people would see it as one of the factions most iconic models in fact.

Flanderisation of ranges is bad and decried when GW do it, except when they don’t then they should have flanderised. Odd... ok.

 Manchu wrote:
I just worry about DA players. Traditionally, the power armored, dress wearing girls who use plasma are Dark Angels rather than Adepta Soroitas.

Not to worry. Dark Angels still get the distinction of being the moping, power armored, dress wearing girls who use plasma.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Thunderhawks were specifically exempted during the original division of military powers because they were presented primarily as transport craft and as such were required for Marines to function properly. They were combat capable in the context of their intended role, but they weren't actual fighters, interceptors, or bombers. If you think back, "it's totes just a transport honest guv" was actually the same nonsense GW tried to use to justify the original Chibihawk in fluff terms.

Navy handles space and air combat. Guard handles ground combat. Marines act as special forces and linebreakers. That was an interesting idea. Now everybody gets a fleet, everybody gets an airforce, everybody fights sieges etc etc, and all the thematic underpinning of a new-founded Imperium terrified of another Horus hacking its military apart and all of that, over time and along with everything else, degrading into factionalised semi-feudal bickering is lost, because GW want to flog another newshiny and Marine players can't handle the idea that there might be some areas of warfare where they have to depend on the rest of the Imperium.

All these little "limitations" lead to cool bits of background material like the Avenger being favoured by the Sisters for close support, and so often Navy squadrons of them end up on religious crusades. Except with the new approach, the Sisters would just get a newshiny flier of their own, flown by a Sister so nobody has to feel left out.

Except the division was 10000 years ago. You know, almost as long as civilization actually lasted till today. That's plenty of time for all organizations to make their own workarounds. I mean, just look at USA - they had army and navy. Then navy wanted army too and suddenly, US marines. Then someone invented plane and you had US air force. Except not really, because navy wanted some too, so they made US naval aviation. Army controlled most of planes at one point, too. Then marines got jealous and purchased more planes than most other actual countries have. Then national guard joined in. Then CIA, they now have one of the largest drone and bomber fleets in the world, executing thousands of bombing missions each year. Etc, etc. And we're talking about one single country that ended up with nearly a dozen air fleets by inertia (really differing from each other, too) in less than a century, not a galaxy spanning empire.

Plus, if you ever think about it, the restrictions were really stupid anyway. Having IoM air force be detached from guard is easy, because both need to be transported there by navy, no problem. Marines though almost never tag along with navy, and having to wait for naval carrier just so you can execute urgent raid at enemy planet would be hilariously dumb. Ditto for relying on navy so enemy doesn't shoot down your "transports" along the way (because that turbolaser on top is totally not making it heavy bomber) or for marines on the ground not being bombed into dust.

This is why US marines have planes of their own, you know, because they argue that even on one small planet needing to call another branch of armed forces for support (even though US navy has carrier parked right next to marine transport when they need to land somewhere) takes too long and so the air support needs to be integral and ready to answer to any call or the landing will be beaten back with ease. Hmm, what IoM faction does this resemble, I wonder?

 Sim-Life wrote:

Bdrone wrote:
or the ridiculous..swaying things.

They're censers. They're used in religious ceremonies to burn scented incense and they are entirely appropriate for a Sororitas HQ to have, though I agree the way they've been used on this model is dumb.

I'll plan on just leaving the censors off and convert some armor cherbium to carry them for her.

Ya know seems pretty simple to remove the collar and just fur coat it up like the old metal canoness.

*Shudders in Catholic upbringing*

My crazy old local priest absolutely LOVED the censer. What AC/DC are to guitar, he was with swinging a censer, and just seeing that photo is making me want to cough and sneeze. Frankincense smells like a damp coffin full of pot pourri imho.

Anyway, I think the idea is to give her motion, but how successful it is I think I'd need an actual model in my hands to tell, I think it might actually be quite effective in person, so to speak.

Censers are symbolically purifying, but funny enough, some of the Death Guard have their own (ironic) versions, don't they?

 Irbis wrote:
I mean, just look at USA - they had army and navy. Then navy wanted army too and suddenly, US marines.

Don't care to debate your other points, but this certainly isn't how the U.S. Marines came about.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Irbis wrote:
I mean, just look at USA - they had army and navy. Then navy wanted army too and suddenly, US marines.

Don't care to debate your other points, but this certainly isn't how the U.S. Marines came about.

Off topic but correct. Marines have existed as an infantry component of Navies since long before the Americas were colonised by Europeans (unless the Viking theories are true). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marines#History

Toulon Hess wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I just worry about DA players. Traditionally, the power armored, dress wearing girls who use plasma are Dark Angels rather than Adepta Soroitas.

Hmm. Tad sexist, don't you think?

Giving Sisters plasma is not what I’d call sexist, no. But nonetheless it is really insensitive to Dark Angels’ feelings. What’s next, special bonuses for plasma-toting Sisters?

Sister Holyplasma: So you’re pouting because of the pistol I use?

Brother Teariel: It’s not what you used, it’s how you used it.

Sister Holyplasma: +++rolls eyes in High Gothic+++

Casualty wrote:Anyway, I think the idea is to give her motion, but how successful it is

Let’s just be grateful the cartoon clouds of incense are left to the imagination rather than being sculpted on, as with the Saturday Mornings style Death Guard.

 Manchu wrote:


Sister Holyplasma: So you’re pouting because of the pistol I use?

Brother Teariel: It’s not what you used, it’s how you used it.

Sister Holyplasma: +++rolls eyes in High Gothic+++

Black armour, holy plasma weapons and decorative robes are a part of First Le- CHAPTER culture. What you sisters are doing is just, like, I can't even...
*distracted by an Escher walking by with a head-dress of feathers*
Hey you, come back!

Chapter appropriation!

Don’t Death Guard censers spread smoke infected with plagues and such? Thats probably why they get cartoony smoke.

 Sim-Life wrote:
On topic, don't Death Guard censers spread smoke infected with plagues and such? Thats probably why they get cartoony smoke.

I don't think there's a background reason. GW started the whole cartoony smoke thing with the Dark Vengeance Chaplain and the latest Vanguard Marines have that effect on a smoke bomb.

I don't know about Sisters, but either we got lucky and the specific designer doesn't have a taste for it, or it's falling out of favor and Sisters may be the first release where they got rid of it. Either way, I for one can't complain if Sisters are (reasonably) free of smoke effect sculpts.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I prefer the 2nd ed. model.

2nd ed canoness is *really* good. I started Sisters in 3rd ed, but ordered her (and Kirinov's mace to replace the I she is holding) and never regretted it, looks so good!
New canoness is… well I think I need to see the actual model before making up my mind.

 Geifer wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
On topic, don't Death Guard censers spread smoke infected with plagues and such? Thats probably why they get cartoony smoke.

I don't think there's a background reason. GW started the whole cartoony smoke thing with the Dark Vengeance Chaplain and the latest Vanguard Marines have that effect on a smoke bomb.

I don't know about Sisters, but either we got lucky and the specific designer doesn't have a taste for it, or it's falling out of favor and Sisters may be the first release where they got rid of it. Either way, I for one can't complain if Sisters are (reasonably) free of smoke effect sculpts.

I'd wait and see what the tanks look like. If exorcists keep the rolling cathedral look theres a decent chance that they'll be more ornate than ever and have a few censers on there.

We'll the exorcist already has some censors on it on the decorative panels.

Casualty wrote:
*Shudders in Catholic upbringing*

My crazy old local priest absolutely LOVED the censer. What AC/DC are to guitar, he was with swinging a censer, and just seeing that photo is making me want to cough and sneeze. Frankincense smells like a damp coffin full of pot pourri imho.

Anyway, I think the idea is to give her motion, but how successful it is I think I'd need an actual model in my hands to tell, I think it might actually be quite effective in person, so to speak.

Censers are symbolically purifying, but funny enough, some of the Death Guard have their own (ironic) versions, don't they?

Ever were in a big monastry church and the fethers went so insane with it that they smoked all 200-500 people in there for first communion?
We had some drop on their faces due to passing out

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
On topic, don't Death Guard censers spread smoke infected with plagues and such? Thats probably why they get cartoony smoke.

I don't think there's a background reason. GW started the whole cartoony smoke thing with the Dark Vengeance Chaplain and the latest Vanguard Marines have that effect on a smoke bomb.

I don't know about Sisters, but either we got lucky and the specific designer doesn't have a taste for it, or it's falling out of favor and Sisters may be the first release where they got rid of it. Either way, I for one can't complain if Sisters are (reasonably) free of smoke effect sculpts.

I'd wait and see what the tanks look like. If exorcists keep the rolling cathedral look theres a decent chance that they'll be more ornate than ever and have a few censers on there.

Yeah. Ideally we'd have none of that, but if done well some small censers hanging from the side could get lost on a large vehicle, so it might not be that bad. On infantry smoke effect draws more attention and can more easily deform the silhouette.

 =Angel= wrote:
Black armour, holy plasma weapons and decorative robes

The funny part of this conversation is? Sisters did it first. Templars were released afterwards.

He was talking about DA rather than BT.