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2019/09/04 17:49:22
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
You would be wrong.
2019/09/04 18:37:32
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
drbored wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if that image of a holy procession around a dead saint becomes a set of miniatures. They'd be super characterful. Sisters wielding sword and shield would be amazing and a good way to depict Celestians.
A mixed unit of the arc that gives an aura and the procession that carries it would be awesome
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
You would be wrong.
You know this how?
Post counts aint gonna increase themselves, man
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 18:43:14
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2019/09/04 19:24:30
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
fox-light713 wrote: I have a feeling that the models in this first sisters army box will be like the recent Shadowspear/Dark Impirium easy to build models.
You would be wrong.
You know this how?
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number. Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box. I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
If I were worried about that, I would have a far larger post count--what with having been around for over a decade.
But frankly, it's a silly thing for people to be commenting like that as these kinds of idle speculations/"feelings" coupled with weirdly specific examples(and really--people need to stop conflating Shadowspear with Dark Imperium) of things that aren't even right(Dark Imperium and Shadowspear aren't considered "easy to build" sets) have a way of becoming gospel.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/04 19:10:20
2019/09/04 19:42:35
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number.
Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
I don't understand why you typed that, it didn't make any sense. The mode of construction does not affect them number of models in the box.
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box.
Seems probable.
I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
And so could the Sisters from this box. The Sister squad looks like easybuild to me. The duplicate poses, the burning corpse and the dramatic stance of the superior are all the sort of things I'd expect to see in a monopose kit but not in a multipart one. It of course is impossible to tell for sure though.
So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
2019/09/04 20:35:31
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
2019/09/04 20:36:36
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number.
Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
I don't understand why you typed that, it didn't make any sense. The mode of construction does not affect them number of models in the box.
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box.
Seems probable.
I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
And so could the Sisters from this box. The Sister squad looks like easybuild to me. The duplicate poses, the burning corpse and the dramatic stance of the superior are all the sort of things I'd expect to see in a monopose kit but not in a multipart one. It of course is impossible to tell for sure though.
I think he means that in ETB boxes it is not the number of units that matter but the space on sprues.
For exemple, for shadowspear GW said that they could "only" add 2 oblit and not 3 because of a lack of space.
2019/09/04 20:39:09
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
It's 25 models. If it were going to be like Shadowspear(Dark Imperium's a starter set, I won't dignify lumping it in with Shadowspear), it would be a weirder number.
Shadowspear is 19 models for the Marines and 16 for Chaos(giving them doubles of Obliterators and Greater Possessed both).
I don't understand why you typed that, it didn't make any sense. The mode of construction does not affect them number of models in the box.
That's on you. It does have an effect, but I'm not going to get into it.
It's been insinuated from people who attended the seminar that the contents in the video are the contents of the box.
Seems probable.
It does seem to jibe well with the box's "25 models" listing.
Spoiling speculation:
Spoiler:
There's a 10 model squad of Battle Sisters(including a Simulacrum Imperialis and Sister Superior), the Canoness, and the Penitent Engine are pretty easy to confirm/count numbers on.
That's 12 models there.
There is a Mistress of Repentance shown, which puts you at 13...but the question is how many Repentia? Right now, the minimum unit size is 3--it could get bumped up to 5 for a minimum and become a 6 model set, which would put you at 18 models. If it remains at minimum sized of 3 and comes with a Mistress on its own frame in the box and doubled up frames of the Repentia themselves--that could put you at 19.
Then there's Seraphim shown, again, question is would it be like now with 5x Seraphim or would it be a smaller unit size?
If it remains at 5x Seraphim...that puts you at 23 models if no doubled up sprues of 3 for the Repentia, 24 if it's doubled up.
Something I'm wondering about is Arco-Flagellants. The artwork from this week's Battle Sister Bulletin made it look slightly larger than before, making me wonder if maybe it might get its own sprue in the Repentia set--or share a sprue with the Mistress of Repentance.
But that's just idle speculation at this juncture. We'll see as we get closer to November.
I sincerely doubt they're going to have wasted time doing "easy build" versions of the full kits just for a limited edition boxed set. Shadowspear's Vanguard and Chaos Marines stuff are purportedly slated to go into Start Collecting sets down the road.
And so could the Sisters from this box. The Sister squad looks like easybuild to me. The duplicate poses, the burning corpse and the dramatic stance of the superior are all the sort of things I'd expect to see in a monopose kit but not in a multipart one. It of course is impossible to tell for sure though.
Starting here with a nitpick:
A multipart kit can be monopose. The terms aren't exclusive.
Monopose kit does not mean Easy to Build. Easy Builds are the ones that GW bills as "no glue required".
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
I thought this was an SoB update, I wasn't expecting new unit types, just updated plastic for the existing range.
2019/09/04 20:50:22
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
No and no way to know. They're not working with the community to fix the terrible beta codex, but they might be working with specific playtesters.
And it's not just your area. The vast majority of people who actually play sisters see it as anywhere from 'mediocre' to 'hot garbage'. I myself am firmly in the 'just go back to the freakin index if you're not gonna even TRY!' Camp. Because the index had good rules.
Also, sidebar, can we stop pretending that the models in the video aren't 100% 22 of the 25 models in the box? It's not some holmsian mystery guys.
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
I thought this was an SoB update, I wasn't expecting new unit types, just updated plastic for the existing range.
Considering actual Adepta Sororitas only have 2 HQs, it's unlikely we won't get at least a new character.
I think it's far easier to assume that the Sisters in the box will be the Sisters that will eventually see separate releases than some special different Sisters that will only ever come out in that box.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it's far easier to assume that the Sisters in the box will be the Sisters that will eventually see separate releases than some special different Sisters that will only ever come out in that box.
Yes, but that doesn't stop them from being monopose (real monopose, not multipose models you mistakenly call monopose.) There are monopose variants of some CSM and many Primaris units along with their multipose counterparts. There is no particular reason to think that they couldn't do the same with the Sisters.
alextroy wrote: Please, please, please let there be a model of the sword and board Sister.
If they wanted to make it truly realistic, she could be armed with a ruler and a math book. Aw yeah, that brings back some unpleasant high school memories.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2019/09/05 04:29:30
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it's far easier to assume that the Sisters in the box will be the Sisters that will eventually see separate releases than some special different Sisters that will only ever come out in that box.
Monopose models are easier to design and build, and they can fit models from multiple units on the same sprue, cutting down on tooling costs. They can reuse these unique sprues again for a start collecting or Kill Team box, so the investment isn't lost when the full models become available. Box games is the third leg of GW (after AoS and 40k), which means a different department is responsible, so it is possible to get this box done in parallel to the work the core 40k team is doing. If the models don't feature all the options (like the mech with a different woebegone minion hanging on it), they still give gamers a reason to rebuy the models in their full form. And if the full models aren't coming out in 2019, releasing something like this box would be a way to make the announced deadline (and hit Christmas) without fully committing to the whole line.
And frankly, they can sell a boxed bundle much cheaper than they would sell four or five unit boxes separately, so why would they even bother making a bundle upfront? They can't sell the box for too much because November is Christmas time and people have hard limits on how much they can spend - nobody is going to buy themselves a $400 box set and get their family used socks for Christmas. If the box does have a significant discount, people would just buy multiple boxes and have a large army at a huge discount. It'd be like leading with a Start Collecting rather than doing it a year later. This is basically an Xmas bundle putting the cart before the horse. There's a longer strategy at play here.
2019/09/05 04:48:39
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
Sqorgar wrote: Monopose models are easier to design and build, and they can fit models from multiple units on the same sprue, cutting down on tooling costs. They can reuse these unique sprues again for a start collecting or Kill Team box, so the investment isn't lost when the full models become available. Box games is the third leg of GW (after AoS and 40k), which means a different department is responsible, so it is possible to get this box done in parallel to the work the core 40k team is doing. If the models don't feature all the options (like the mech with a different woebegone minion hanging on it), they still give gamers a reason to rebuy the models in their full form. And if the full models aren't coming out in 2019, releasing something like this box would be a way to make the announced deadline (and hit Christmas) without fully committing to the whole line.
But they're already making a full Sisters kit, so I don't think they'd make the one-off box of all mono-pose minis as well as the full kit just so they can shove 'em in a Start Collecting! box later down the line when it's easier just to do one kit.
And this isn't a boxed game.
Sqorgar wrote: And frankly, they can sell a boxed bundle much cheaper than they would sell four or five unit boxes separately, so why would they even bother making a bundle upfront? They can't sell the box for too much because November is Christmas time and people have hard limits on how much they can spend - nobody is going to buy themselves a $400 box set and get their family used socks for Christmas. If the box does have a significant discount, people would just buy multiple boxes and have a large army at a huge discount. It'd be like leading with a Start Collecting rather than doing it a year later. This is basically an Xmas bundle putting the cart before the horse. There's a longer strategy at play here.
And they sell big battleforces of regular kits all the time.
Sorry, but Occam's Razor just come screeching through this entire line of thinking. It makes more sense that the minis in the first Sisters release will be the regular minis than some special one-offs made for a preview box.
H.B.M.C. wrote: But they're already making a full Sisters kit, so I don't think they'd make the one-off box of all mono-pose minis as well as the full kit just so they can shove 'em in a Start Collecting! box later down the line when it's easier just to do one kit.
But they just did that with CSM and the Vanguard marines.
Togusa wrote: So I was wondering about the beta codex, and people who have been providing feedback to GW. I know that in my area, the CA2018 beta codex was poorly received and viewed as quite weak.
Has anything changed since then? Are they actively working with the beta-testers to make the codex worth while?
The idea that the beta Codex was ever going to provide any really meaningful playtest feedback beyond that which was immediately obvious (Celestians suck hard) was clearly a lie from GW from the outset.
For one thing, the beta Codex doesn't include any new units - so they're certainly not getting beta tested!
I thought this was an SoB update, I wasn't expecting new unit types, just updated plastic for the existing range.
Changing all models available at the moment to plastic is the absolute minimum expected of GW. We have no indication of anything more than that and that may end up all they're doing, but there are two good reasons why simply plasticizing the current range is not.
1. GW has shown they believe that new models sell better than redone versions of existing models, time and again passing over units that need new models, in the worst case the very core of the army that you just can't get around, to sell you a new, shiny centerpiece. Even in spite of criticism that you can't make an army out of centerpiece models and there is a compelling argument for making the actual core of the army look good. While not impossible, there is no reason to assume that GW will change this approach for Sisters. If they believe there are enough metal Sisters out there that may stop people from buying the new kits, they will probably make sure the new kits offer something that does not already exist.
2. In the era of no model no rules, you can't sell an army based on design paradigms from 3rd ed. The game has moved on and power creep has seen to the release of frankly idiotically powerful units, units which Sisters never got. GW seems to be aware that good rules sell models, but if they won't hand out those good rules because they don't have the fitting models, there's only two ways to go. And since they already resolved to make models, chances are these will not be limited to what we have at the moment so as to make sure the models' rules can be made attractive.
Now I don't know if we'll see actual new units, but there's reason to believe that there will at least be new options. Which is one of those things that makes the beta codex so predictably dumb. You know it's not the full rule set, and testing bits and pieces in isolation won't do much to improve what will effectively be an entirely different book.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
2019/09/05 11:25:40
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Let's count, what are the last few model releases that have followed the pattern of "Army box with monopose version of full kit, full kit released later?"
Shadowspear (Brand new chaos, Phobos SM. Also worth noting this box followed the exact same pattern of having duplicate poses in many of the units like CSMs, Eliminators and Suppressors which are not duplicates in the full kits)
Dark Imperium (Starter box, no duplicate poses IIRC)
Deathwatch: Overkill (standalone board game, but it did follow the same identical pattern except that the monopose deathwatch were later made into a kit you could buy.)
The last army they released without this pattern was Admech, in early 7th edition.
Major Releases not following this pattern:
Ork Speed Freeks stuff (Speed Freeks box was 2 of the full kits, and 2 existing ork biker kits)
The wave of assorted nid stuff we got mid 7th? That was just kits, there was no box set.
Thousand Sons, again released without a box set.
Admech/Harlequins/other pre-7th ed army releases.
I don't think it's any kind of crazy to assume that Sisters of Battle will follow the release pattern of the last four major wave releases and will not be a Necromunda-style duplicate single-sprue in one box kit situation considering CSMs were not.
Crimson wrote: ... But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Like most things GW have been releasing recently.
MPPK monopose is not usually "literally just one possible pose" however. in the newest GW kits you almost always see models that can only be assembled 2-3 ways, rather than true single pose. You see this with stuff like the new Sigmar kits (I just assembled a bunch of Namarti Reavers and I got the new GSC Aberrants, both of which are dated to that year rather than older kits released later) and they all had multiple sets of arms dedicated to each torso+Legs so you could make 2 different possible figures for each model, and then they had freely swappable heads.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/05 12:03:32
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2019/09/05 12:07:51
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
Yeah, it's a space marines head that they put some eye shadow and lipstick on in an effort to cover up the art <removed>. That's why there's a group of sisters with heads like that all together in the painting (top of painting to foreground, about 1/3 across from the left hand side) and the sisters that are further away from the group all have normal female heads. The artist started doing the cartoon for the painting, and then realized partway through that they had drawn primaris marines instead of sisters. Rather than RE-do the cartoon, they just plowed ahead. Real 'quality' form GW's art department there.
Please do not circumvent the language filter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/06 13:40:52
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
2019/09/06 13:14:05
Subject: [Adepta Sororitas] Army Box and trailer Pg 78
H.B.M.C. wrote: Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
GW changes horses mid-race so often that them doing one thing in no way ensures that they'll do the same thing next time.
Anyway, as I said, the simplest solution is often the right one. These are far more likely to just be the regular models than anything else.
If we are trying to gauge what is likely, past behaviour is indeed a decent indicator. But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Let's count, what are the last few model releases that have followed the pattern of "Army box with monopose version of full kit, full kit released later?"
Shadowspear (Brand new chaos, Phobos SM. Also worth noting this box followed the exact same pattern of having duplicate poses in many of the units like CSMs, Eliminators and Suppressors which are not duplicates in the full kits)
Dark Imperium (Starter box, no duplicate poses IIRC)
Deathwatch: Overkill (standalone board game, but it did follow the same identical pattern except that the monopose deathwatch were later made into a kit you could buy.)
The last army they released without this pattern was Admech, in early 7th edition.
Major Releases not following this pattern:
Ork Speed Freeks stuff (Speed Freeks box was 2 of the full kits, and 2 existing ork biker kits)
The wave of assorted nid stuff we got mid 7th? That was just kits, there was no box set.
Thousand Sons, again released without a box set.
Admech/Harlequins/other pre-7th ed army releases.
I don't think it's any kind of crazy to assume that Sisters of Battle will follow the release pattern of the last four major wave releases and will not be a Necromunda-style duplicate single-sprue in one box kit situation considering CSMs were not.
Crimson wrote: ... But the biggest reason to think that they might be monopose is that they kinda look like it.
Like most things GW have been releasing recently.
MPPK monopose is not usually "literally just one possible pose" however. in the newest GW kits you almost always see models that can only be assembled 2-3 ways, rather than true single pose. You see this with stuff like the new Sigmar kits (I just assembled a bunch of Namarti Reavers and I got the new GSC Aberrants, both of which are dated to that year rather than older kits released later) and they all had multiple sets of arms dedicated to each torso+Legs so you could make 2 different possible figures for each model, and then they had freely swappable heads.
I’d call Deathwatch a borderline case. The monopose ones were all named characters.
?