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Crimson wrote: What? This is it? But they showed Deimos bits earlier... what happened to those?
Not only did they show Deimos pattern stuff, but the customization options on this Rhino are just so simple compared to what they showed for the Deimos version:
Crimson wrote: What? This is it? But they showed Deimos bits earlier... what happened to those?
Not only did they show Deimos pattern stuff, but the customization options on this Rhino are just so simple compared to what they showed for the Deimos version:
Not only did they show Deimos pattern stuff, but the customization options on this Rhino are just so simple compared to what they showed for the Deimos version:
It does say " some of these vehicles" are based on that variant though, which seems a bit odd to have 2 different Rhino types in use.
I would be willing to bet money that those previews with that degree of ostentation are showing parts of the Exorcist kit. Those tanks more than any other in the SoB armoury are as much reliquaries as anything else.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
jeff white wrote: Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
It'll be interesting to see how they make t3, bolters and flamers an appealing soup option when compared to guard, nu-marines (and the rumoured salamander rule), deathwatch, etc. The beta, previews, and blackstone units have been a blank slate on that so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 17:07:11
And it may well have anti-souping rules (or at least benefits for not souping), as the 8.5 marine codex does. I expect to see a lot of that from now on.
I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
GW might want to play to both sides - people just getting into SoB and prefer the look of Mars pattern, and people who want Deimos pattern.
Thing is, however, that if the new Immolator and Exorcist are Deimos pattern, I doubt the parts will be interchangeable with the Mars kit (though it's possible it is).
It's also possible that any Repressor kit would work better with a Mars Pattern Rhino than Deimos Pattern, so keep Mars around. But that's just wishlisting on my part.
Racerguy180 wrote: There is 30k to think about. That way they can get them in plastic, which deimos really need cuz the running boards are a pain if warped.
Yeah, I'm sure that the dozens of people who still play HH would really appreciate that.
Im sure the fact that it's not using the most current base game rules has nothing to do with it.
As soon as it goes to 8th I'll buy a bunch more to complement what I already have from 30k and actually play it rather than just collect and use the units for 40k.
ERJAK wrote: Why would the new range sell well when nothing's actually new? All the sisters of battle players already have most of the models and will only need to buy in piece-meal. There's no real draw for new players army wise (because it's half an army and the rules are pretty gak). They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
If they're hedging their bets that hard they're setting the army up to fail.
Old players aren't really GW's main target group though. It's the kids who buy army or two and then it's time to move to the next kid to sell his army and be done. Veterans with old armies are of interest only as a marketing tool to draw in the next kid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote: The release better not live or die off of sisters players. There really aren't very many people on the planet who play sisters routinely. Even less that consider them their primary army. Even if every single one of us blew 2 grand day one (like I intend to) it still wouldn't be a huge return on investment.
You just said exact reason why they aren't too worried about "oh bohoo it's just old models plastic so old players don't buy"...Old players don't make it worthwhile alone anyway. They need and are aiming for people with zero sisters before. I'm much more of their target group than existing sister player because I don't have them yet at all and certainly are tempted(only LOTR and AT are keeping it not from immediate start the army)
My greater point is that without an actual fully functioning army, the release is unlikely to draw in too many new players. The beta codex basically just had us as boring, short range weaker space marines. Answering the question 'so what does the army play like?' with 'If you wanna win? Poxwalker horde. MAYBE some vehicle stuff if you're a good enough player.' Isn't going to appeal to very many people.
On the other side, people who would be primarily interested in them for the models are either small purchasers buying the few models they really like for allied detachments and painting projects, or excuse factories who say stuff like 'well I would buy a new sisters army but LOTR yunno?'
To get a significant number of consistent long term purchasers , especially for an only minimally established line, you need good models, good lore, good rules, and good customization(whether through kits or army construction). So far they've only gotten half of those, despite having plenty of opportunity to get at least 3/4ths.
Shadenuat wrote: May be just a feeling but I think new sisters bawx will be in sold out before you could blink.
Great rhino beautification kit by the way.
I already saved my beer money and gave half up front to the local store manager with express intent that this is a down payment on that box.
Maybe not a guarantee, but I also hope to save up the rest to give him next month, meaning paid in full beforehand.
So, when he sits to do the ordering himself, he can add 1 to the total.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dracpanzer wrote: All these predictions of sales mean nothing if the rules suck. A bad dex will chop the legs right out from under this release.
Sisters will be lucky to get back what viability they lost from the index. Which will still leave them far behind.
Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
And to that end, I do see GW introducing an Inqusition book.
If they were wise in my opinion,
they would be pushing this with whatever new Eisenhorn TV show they are part of now ...
Go the fantastic tales and fantastic creature in space route.
Designing Sisters to be a soup ingredient would be stupid. They don't work all that well with other imperial forces due to their odd range banding (sisters operate best at between 6-12" any closer or farther and they lose a lot of damage).
Almost anything Sisters can do for a different army could be done better by guard or space marines. The one exception being psychic defense.
More than that though, designing an army as large as the SoB is (i.e. a bit more than half of a fully fleshed out force with greater unit variety than GK or harlies) to be an allied force is designing them to fail. You'll sell the same 3 kits (Best HQ, Troop, Best overall unit) and the entire rest of the line will stagnate.
Also, that's not what mary sue means.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/17 21:02:08
ERJAK wrote: Why would the new range sell well when nothing's actually new? All the sisters of battle players already have most of the models and will only need to buy in piece-meal. There's no real draw for new players army wise (because it's half an army and the rules are pretty gak). They're relying on 90% of purchases coming from people liking the models enough to start a new army or people hating the metals enough that they replace their army wholesale.
If they're hedging their bets that hard they're setting the army up to fail.
Old players aren't really GW's main target group though. It's the kids who buy army or two and then it's time to move to the next kid to sell his army and be done. Veterans with old armies are of interest only as a marketing tool to draw in the next kid.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote: The release better not live or die off of sisters players. There really aren't very many people on the planet who play sisters routinely. Even less that consider them their primary army. Even if every single one of us blew 2 grand day one (like I intend to) it still wouldn't be a huge return on investment.
You just said exact reason why they aren't too worried about "oh bohoo it's just old models plastic so old players don't buy"...Old players don't make it worthwhile alone anyway. They need and are aiming for people with zero sisters before. I'm much more of their target group than existing sister player because I don't have them yet at all and certainly are tempted(only LOTR and AT are keeping it not from immediate start the army)
My greater point is that without an actual fully functioning army, the release is unlikely to draw in too many new players. The beta codex basically just had us as boring, short range weaker space marines. Answering the question 'so what does the army play like?' with 'If you wanna win? Poxwalker horde. MAYBE some vehicle stuff if you're a good enough player.' Isn't going to appeal to very many people.
On the other side, people who would be primarily interested in them for the models are either small purchasers buying the few models they really like for allied detachments and painting projects, or excuse factories who say stuff like 'well I would buy a new sisters army but LOTR yunno?'
To get a significant number of consistent long term purchasers , especially for an only minimally established line, you need good models, good lore, good rules, and good customization(whether through kits or army construction). So far they've only gotten half of those, despite having plenty of opportunity to get at least 3/4ths.
Shadenuat wrote: May be just a feeling but I think new sisters bawx will be in sold out before you could blink.
Great rhino beautification kit by the way.
I already saved my beer money and gave half up front to the local store manager with express intent that this is a down payment on that box.
Maybe not a guarantee, but I also hope to save up the rest to give him next month, meaning paid in full beforehand.
So, when he sits to do the ordering himself, he can add 1 to the total.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dracpanzer wrote: All these predictions of sales mean nothing if the rules suck. A bad dex will chop the legs right out from under this release.
Sisters will be lucky to get back what viability they lost from the index. Which will still leave them far behind.
Yeah, no I don't see that happening.
I see these designed to be a soup ingredient.
And to that end, I do see GW introducing an Inqusition book.
If they were wise in my opinion,
they would be pushing this with whatever new Eisenhorn TV show they are part of now ...
Go the fantastic tales and fantastic creature in space route.
Designing Sisters to be a soup ingredient would be stupid. They don't work all that well with other imperial forces due to their odd range banding (sisters operate best at between 6-12" any closer or farther and they lose a lot of damage).
Almost anything Sisters can do for a different army could be done better by guard or space marines. The one exception being psychic defense.
More than that though, designing an army as large as the SoB is (i.e. a bit more than half of a fully fleshed out force with greater unit variety than GK or harlies) to be an allied force is designing them to fail. You'll sell the same 3 kits (Best HQ, Troop, Best overall unit) and the entire rest of the line will stagnate.
Also, that's not what mary sue means.
True with some of the older players who have an already established SoB army with metals and older plastic kits might only pick up the new stuff and maybe a couple of the new base kits ( like the new Battle sisters squad box, or just a couple of the characters). My SoB army while not small but not large I'll be getting plastics to match the current foot soldiers I have as well as new units and such, while I have a SoB army I would count myself among those who have an army and will be picking up a lot of the new Sisters stuff when it comes out. It's not like all of the old players who have armies won't be getting any of the new SoB stuff.
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
To represent that the deimos pattern is rarer? So the more numerous transport is the more numerous pattern while the more specialised vehicles are given the honour of being based on the now rarer pattern.
I think it's unfortunate they went with the current Rhino. I hope it's a re-cut kit or at least cleaned up. Because, knowing GW, this will be "the" Rhino for Sisters for the next 10-15 years. That will give this (boring) version of the Rhino a....30-35 year shelf life? You're now saddled with this old Rhino version forever, more or less.
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
To represent that the deimos pattern is rarer? So the more numerous transport is the more numerous pattern while the more specialised vehicles are given the honour of being based on the now rarer pattern.
Just an idea.
It wouldn't upset me if that was how they wanted to represent an Exorcist even though I have an unbuilt plastic/ metal one!
In fact, that wouldn't be a bad thing if I had two that were completely different.
jake wrote: I'm confused why the army would use two kinds of Rhinos. we saw a preview for Deimos pattern Rhinos, and I know everyone thinks those will be the Exorcist and Immolator. But if thats the case why do this sprue with the standard Rhino? Wouldn't they want to sell as many Deimos kits as they could? Wouldn't they want to encourage Sisters players to buy new kits instead of making do with the Rhinos they've had for years? Beyond that, it just seems weird to have the older Rhino as an option if they're specifically making a Deimos version for this release.
I can't really think of a reason for them to do this. Except maybe there wont be a Demios version? Maybe what we saw in that preview has since been scrapped?
To represent that the deimos pattern is rarer? So the more numerous transport is the more numerous pattern while the more specialised vehicles are given the honour of being based on the now rarer pattern.
Just an idea.
I guess thats possible, but it seems weird to me. if GWis going to the trouble of giving some of the vehicles the Demios look, why not all of them? Why mix and match?
Fluff wise, it seems like all the Sister's Rhinos would come from the same Forgeworld, and if that Forgeworld could supply different versions they'd just choose the most effective one, or at least the one that fit their needs. Specialized vehicles would nstead recieve more ornate decoratiosn (as we've seen with Sisters vehicles in the past.
Maybe theres another reason. right now it just seems strange to me.
Oh I agree it's odd. Was 100% expecting deimos pattern rhino. Just trying to come up with SOME in universe explanation so best I can come up with deimos patterns are hard to produce and rarer so using those for the more specialised variants is easier than as ubiquous transport while emphazising their sacred statue as irreplacable relic.
Elbows wrote: I think it's unfortunate they went with the current Rhino. I hope it's a re-cut kit or at least cleaned up. Because, knowing GW, this will be "the" Rhino for Sisters for the next 10-15 years. That will give this (boring) version of the Rhino a....30-35 year shelf life? You're now saddled with this old Rhino version forever, more or less.
Given the way the Rhino kits work and the number of kits based on the chassis, I wonder if they’re planning on any replacement just being a new hull sprue, that can be rebooted with the existing upgrade frames for the various kits.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Elbows wrote: I think it's unfortunate they went with the current Rhino. I hope it's a re-cut kit or at least cleaned up. Because, knowing GW, this will be "the" Rhino for Sisters for the next 10-15 years. That will give this (boring) version of the Rhino a....30-35 year shelf life? You're now saddled with this old Rhino version forever, more or less.
Given the way the Rhino kits work and the number of kits based on the chassis, I wonder if they’re planning on any replacement just being a new hull sprue, that can be rebooted with the existing upgrade frames for the various kits.
Yeah, I think overall it bodes poorly. It means the CSM are unlikely to get a new Rhino...maybe ever, lol. I was hoping the Sisters one would be a new plastic Deimos pattern which would in turn be used for HH plastics....provide a new basis for a more visually distinct CSM Rhino, etc. Knowing GW's extremely long-in-the-tooth practices for plastic kits, it just shocks me you're being saddled with a slightly upgraded old kit for....a loooooong time.
A proper Deimos line would have made quite a bit of sense. Perhaps the Deimos previews will be the basis for another Sisters vehicle and that will be shifted over to HH/CSM, or some such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/23 01:28:06
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