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 LordofHats wrote:
Honestly, the whole "nothing inorganic can go back, unless it's a robot with human flesh wrapped around it" mechanic, was probably the dumbest thing in the original movie. Minor enough to be handwaved away, but mechanically nonsensical. I don't really care that it was ignored in future films.

You can always head-canon it by assuming the humans didn't actually understand time travel very well at all and made a bunch of bad assumptions. Maybe they thought they only had one shot to get it right so figured they'd take the least chances possible? I've already mentioned the whole "no fate" stuff is clearly not true, but they go on believing it, possibly because all their information about time travel comes from soldiers, not physicists.

I dunno that 'no fate' is untrue, so much as it hasn't stuck so far.

Even pushing Judgement Day ever backwards gives those In The Know ever more time to prepare, and stockpile weapons. So when it does kick off, humanity is that little bit better prepared.

It could well get to the point where Judgement Day is pushed so far back, man has a chance to catch up with the concept of AI properly, and programme in safeguards. Or just decide giving it total control is a daft idea.


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Here's an interesting comment I missed earlier....

[quote=DenofGeek article[/I]Franchise creator James Cameron has recruited Deadpool director Tim Miller "to direct a reboot, a conclusion"

I just watched Genysis again. I completely forgot that it starts with the original Judgment Day date (1997) but then has some time travel shenanigans push it to 2017, thus completely ignoring all events from T3 (maybe Salvation too)

Now that I think of it, Genesis portrays John saving Reese at a young age. Much younger than when they meet in Salvation, so those events are out too.
So Dark Fate isn't the first sequel to ignore previous ones

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Snippet from Collider. Some useful info, and some comments some may take issue with.

If you do, please not in this thread, as it doesn't add anything.

http://collider.com/terminator-6-dark-fate-new-character-explained-tim-miller/#images

Davis is a big part of why this project kept my attention and his emphasis on her is heartening. She's very compelling on screen, and I enjoy just the huge gulf between her different roles.

Will be interesting to see the SDCC stuff.

Idly browsing on my lunchbreak, looking for more info as to what we might expect.

James Cameron on the intended Rating wrote:I think, tonally, what makes this a direct sequel to T1 and T2 is as much about the tone as it is about the narrative: It’s R rated, it’s grim, it’s gritty, it’s fast, it’s intense, it’s very linear. The whole story takes place in 36 hours. It’s not this kind of grandiose, complex story. It’s just very focused on the characters, it’s very now, it’s very present and it’s just a fast white-knuckle ride.

So, that's fairly encouraging to me. Whilst far from a guarantee of quality, it does suggest the tie-in marketing (if there'll be any) is the secondary thought. And that the tale is set over 36 hours gives hope of a tightly plotted film.

But then....

James Cameron, again wrote:And we're pretending the other films were a bad dream. Or an alternate timeline, which is permissible in our multi-verse. This was really driven more by [director Tim Miller] than anybody, surprisingly, because I came in pretty agnostic about where we took it. The only thing I insisted on was that we somehow revamp it and reinvent it for the 21st century.

I'm so-so on this one. It does make sense to have it set now. But the 'revamp and reinvent' isn't exactly filling me with confidence. Nothing against the team behind it. Just, y'know, Reboots and that.

Next?

Cinemablend's article wrote:Hamilton and Schwarzenegger will be joined by new stars, including Natalia Reyes as Dani and Mackenzie Davis as Grace. Grace is a super-soldier sent back to protect Dani, who is apparently very important to the future in the way Sarah Connor was in the first two Terminator movies.

Emphasis is mine. So she's not in fact a Terminator - but someone with widget bionic bits. That's at least an interesting addition - and it does make some kind of sense. Now, whether or not you accept the Resistance would have the tech and facilities for such an upgrade? That's up to you. Though one does suppose she could be from further in the Future?

And over to Mr Cameron again.

[quote=Yeah, you got to ask yourself, 'Why did they make these characters look and sound like Arnold?' There has to be a reason. So yeah, it has flashed through my mind that there has to have been a prototype. There has to have been a guy who's DNA was harvested from -- that they grew the organic outer layer that they grew the Terminator from...and that presumably was a real person at some point. [...] I've asked myself these questions but it's never been resolved...so stay tuned! We're talking pretty seriously now about doing some new Terminator films or possibly a trilogy and you'll just have to see what surfaces in those.

The bit about the resistance supersoldiers using drugs to cope with pain really struck me as a small bit significant sign that he isn't just talking a big game about keeping it gritty and grounded.

Indeedy.

I mean, seriously. This could be awful. But the more I hear, the more I think this is going to be at least a worthy sequel to the first two.

Thanx for those quotes Mad Doc. I'm starting to look forward to this.
It will be interesting to see if they do indeed shift the "prime target" away from John Connor. I've always identified with John Connor since I share the same birth month/year (Feb 1985) and have thus been his same age in all the films. Still looking forward to how 2029 turns out .

But the "must save John Connor" schtick was getting old and I didn't really like the "twist" in Genysis, so it will be refreshing to see it shift to someone else. However it's more than just a Resistance leader

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I'm not sure you can reinvent a Cold War supercomputer for the 21st century and keep it the same story. I'm also dismayed that they feel they need to explain the Arnies as special, especially since we have seen other series of terminators. We're practically into Solo levels of backsplaining the details.

Skynet: And who are your people? Where do you come from?

Arnie: First location memory... T... T... A tundra?

Skynet (typing): T 800.

They could potentially update it a bit, at least in terms of the story.

We know Judgement Day was postponed. But how far?

As for the Arnie model? Who knows. I mean, if they’re intended to infiltrate one base at a time, with No Survivors (one assumes there’d be other hardware on hand to cover the exits. Think a Terrier down a rabbit hole), they may not need that many separate models?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Indeedy.

I mean, seriously. This could be awful. But the more I hear, the more I think this is going to be at least a worthy sequel to the first two.

Tbh I like this cast and still like the Terminator premise enough that all I really need is for this to be better than the other post T2 movies to consider it a success. I think too that people were thrown off by the crummy CGI in the early trailer, but from looking at the Cameron featurette, there's quite a bit of practical work, which I'm cautiously enthused about.

Based on what they're saying though (36 hour time frame, the drugs thing, and some of the Sarah Connor spoilers), I'm expecting/hoping for a solid action movie with a bit more substance to it than the rest and I'll be satisfied, something in the realm of Winter Soldier would do me nicely.

I think that’s a fair summation


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What could be fun?

John was never important. But Sarah’s foreknowledge was. It never mattered who Sarah primed. Just that she primed and trained someone.

Hamilton and Miller interview ahead of SDCC -

https://ew.com/comic-con/2019/07/15/linda-hamilton-tim-miller-terminator-dark-fate-interview/

My takeaway quotes....

Entertainment Weekly wrote:Had you assumed that you were done playing Sarah?

HAMILTON: It was many, many years of just being sure that it was done, that I was done. I kept saying, “Yeah, yeah, if I’m in one now it’s like the geriatrics era.” [Laughs] Which is actually kind of true. I never saw this coming, which made it that much more interesting.

MILLER: But you know what, I honestly believe this would be the best version of the movie after the second one. This will be more clear when you see the movie, but the first two movies really deal with time as a loop, what’s happening is the same thing that happened before and everybody is fighting to ensure that happens again. And Jim had this lucky break that he only broke that rule at the end of Terminator 2 when Sarah destroys Cyberdyne, it’s the first thing that happened that hadn’t happened before, and so it was going to change the future — but no one knew how. And I don’t think the movies that came after it really explored that in a clean way like I believe we are, with true consequences, and it makes perfect sense for Sarah to be the one to face those consequences since they were her choices to begin with.

That’s.....encouraging. Acknowledging the flaws in the other three, and keeping them in mind.

I suspect the jury remains very much out elsewhere, but I really am looking forward to this now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My takeaway quotes....

Entertainment Weekly wrote:Had you assumed that you were done playing Sarah?

HAMILTON: It was many, many years of just being sure that it was done, that I was done. I kept saying, “Yeah, yeah, if I’m in one now it’s like the geriatrics era.” [Laughs] Which is actually kind of true. I never saw this coming, which made it that much more interesting.

MILLER: But you know what, I honestly believe this would be the best version of the movie after the second one. This will be more clear when you see the movie, but the first two movies really deal with time as a loop, what’s happening is the same thing that happened before and everybody is fighting to ensure that happens again. And Jim had this lucky break that he only broke that rule at the end of Terminator 2 when Sarah destroys Cyberdyne, it’s the first thing that happened that hadn’t happened before, and so it was going to change the future — but no one knew how. And I don’t think the movies that came after it really explored that in a clean way like I believe we are, with true consequences, and it makes perfect sense for Sarah to be the one to face those consequences since they were her choices to begin with.

That’s.....encouraging. Acknowledging the flaws in the other three, and keeping them in mind.

I suspect the jury remains very much out elsewhere, but I really am looking forward to this now.

There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth, though 007 seems to have drawn fire for a while.

I'm liking the sense this is all about Sarah Connor's "path", there's a distinct Old Man Logan feel to the images of her here that I am all the way into. It's also far easier to headcanon a logic to the loops and paradoxes if "canon" is defined by Sarah's personal perspective.

And I mean, Linda Hamilton has lived. She isn't BS'ing, she basically retired to take care of her parents a few years back and only seems to show up in stuff now if her friends are involved or she thinks it will be fun.

A good Den of Geek feature, with some new images. Miller again saying all the right things, I'm hoping the SDCC trailer convinces me he means them.

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/terminator-dark-fate/282232/terminator-dark-fate-creates-new-future-franchise


Sidenote, I did not expect beardy and grey to be such a good look for Arnie. The lengths they went to keep him "young" in some of the other Terminator offshoots seem increasingly silly considering how boss he looks there.

Edward Furlong is back, playing John Connor.

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/terminator-dark-fate/66467/edward-furlong-returns-for-r-rated-terminator-dark-fate

My own personal exciteometer creeps up yet another notch.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Edward Furlong is back, playing John Connor.

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/terminator-dark-fate/66467/edward-furlong-returns-for-r-rated-terminator-dark-fate

My own personal exciteometer creeps up yet another notch.

WHAAAAAAAT!?!? Yeah, jazzed about this now too. Is this the first time an actor has returned to play John Connor? Him being a different actor each movie is one of my biggest gripes

-

I believe it is!

I’m now beyond ‘this will, probably, suck’ and instead on ‘please don’t suck’.

Much as I can find good in all the movies, barring Salvation, I do get they’re not objectively good, so much as better than their reputations. But this? So far I’m hearing all the right things.

Ed's back? Thats great news, but he doesn't quite look like Michael Edwards these days...

Long as he looks like John Connor

According to IGN it is now confirmed that Arnold will be playing the T-800 from The Terminator(yup, the robot dude that was burnt, smashed, blown in half, crushed and had its chip and arm melted in molten lava), once again in Dark Fate and his name is now Carl...

https://uk.ign.com/articles/2019/07/18/terminator-dark-fate-comic-con-footage-breakdown-arnold-schwarzenegger-t-800-sarah-connor-linda-hamilton

...I feel its nice that now we can stop calling him "The terminator", the "T-800" or "T-101", because now its just plain..."Carl".

Answers on a postcard.

Or, answers on a postcard once we’ve seen it?

I get the skepticism, but we don’t yet know how that could pan out. So let’s not prejudge.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Edward Furlong is back, playing John Connor.

https://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/terminator-dark-fate/66467/edward-furlong-returns-for-r-rated-terminator-dark-fate

My own personal exciteometer creeps up yet another notch.

I thought he had died actually. Oopsie.

Better than the other way around

I've seen a lot of "I thought he had died?!?!?" reactions. As you say, MDG, glass half full eh?

There's an AMA on Reddit very shortly, if anyone wants in -

https://www.reddit.com/user/TERMINATOR/comments/cemr20/the_cast_and_director_of_terminator_dark_fate_are/

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Or, answers on a postcard once we’ve seen it?

I get the skepticism, but we don’t yet know how that could pan out. So let’s not prejudge.

Certainly not prejudging the film as every film deserves a fair crack of the whip. Just can't see how thats going to pan out, as you say Doc.

I reckon its a reconstruction of the original T-800, and that Cyberdyne backed up the lab research at a second facility, and somehow it escaped to...live in a cabin in the woods, having difficulty accepting what it is...or something.

Personally, I was thinking Arnold would be playing a human character for a change. Hes old enough and different enough for it. Would have been interesting if Sarah had trouble trusting him simply because of his resemblance to her stalker from '84(shades of "come with me if you want to live" from T2). Could have been a nod to Micheal Ironsides character in "nowhere to hide"...

But this is just thinking out loud and still going to see the movie in October. The previous Terminator sequels were puzzling before release, and were even still in places, yet enjoyed them. At this point I can't see this one being any better, but thats okay.

Okay, still going to see the movie in November!

It certainly looks as though it will have the action part nailed down.