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Frazzled wrote: Kona is a Hyundai. Mechanics who will work on a Hyundai are ubiquitous. Get real. Same for Nissans and Toyotas.
I have no problems with Tesla, but your relentless fanboyism is getting really tedious, on a thread that is not about Teslas but about electric cars in general.
I'd rather talk about the Kona frankly. Thats a real car not a rich man's car.
Sure Hyundai mechanics can be found anywhere, but EV Kona mechanics may not be easy to find. The EV Kona was just released this year and last I heard only in certain California markets....that may have changed. I highly doubt every Hyundai dealership can repair the EV Kona.....but maybe they can, I was just throwing names out there.
Oh and its more expensive than a base Model 3. The EV Kona starts at $35,450, The Tesla model 3 starts at $35K.
Despite what Tesla might want you to believe, electric cars are not any different to service than others. Nissan manages to have their Leafs up and running without any of the issues Tesla has. For quite a few years. Plus the Kona shares a lot of parts with their ICE equivalent model.
The Tesla might start at 35K (36,2 with destination fee) but that's without the advanced driver assistance, colour and interior choice etc the Kona comes standard with.
Tesla will only sell me a model 3 for almost 60K euro, though. The 35.000 Euro model is still a unicorn.
Ummm, no, If you get hit and the battery or electric motor get damaged, you need special mechanics. The 35K model 3 comes with same safety features as the Kona, Kona does not even offer self drive or auto pilot of any kind. Kona is also going to have a destination fee and has less horsepower. Its a far inferior car with an inferior charging network....do they even have one?
OK Bro, the Tesla 3 is the greatest car evah! Its almost as good as a Ducatti (ok thats just a lie). Anyone who buys a different car is clearly mentally deranged. We get it. Can we talk about the topic now?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: OK Bro, the Tesla 3 is the greatest car evah! Its almost as good as a Ducatti (ok thats just a lie). Anyone who buys a different car is clearly mentally deranged. We get it. Can we talk about the topic now?
Hey, Im just responding to your posts, you don't need to put words in my mouth. But I do think its a great car. IF you don't want to talk there are thousands of other topics to choose from on dakka. Don't be sad just because you are wrong.
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
Frazzled wrote: OK Bro, the Tesla 3 is the greatest car evah! Its almost as good as a Ducatti (ok thats just a lie). Anyone who buys a different car is clearly mentally deranged. We get it. Can we talk about the topic now?
Hey, Im just responding to your posts, you don't need to put words in my mouth. But I do think its a great car. IF you don't want to talk there are thousands of other topics to choose from on dakka. Don't be sad just because you are wrong.
The thread is about electric cars. Its not about the Tesla 3. Also, not wrong about anything posted yet. So nanny nanny boo boo!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Tesla frowns on having anyone else work on their cars I think just because they want to be the Apple of EVs. Anyone can work on them, you just void your warranty I think. But I've seen a few youtube videos of people buying salvaged teslas to rebuild them or learn how they work, or take the innards out and stick some other car's body on top. There's lots of folks making old cards into EVs, which I think is kinda cool. Here's one
I saw some videos on the Kona, that one doesn't really interest me much.. there's a Kia one also. I think I'd rather go for Tesla or wait and see what VW's new EVs will be like. Tesla might have gotten a good head start but next 5 years or so I think there's gonna be a lot more competition for them.
I might see if I can get out to test drive a model 3 this weekend.
Necros wrote: Tesla frowns on having anyone else work on their cars I think just because they want to be the Apple of EVs. Anyone can work on them, you just void your warranty I think. But I've seen a few youtube videos of people buying salvaged teslas to rebuild them or learn how they work, or take the innards out and stick some other car's body on top. There's lots of folks making old cards into EVs, which I think is kinda cool. Here's one
I saw some videos on the Kona, that one doesn't really interest me much.. there's a Kia one also. I think I'd rather go for Tesla or wait and see what VW's new EVs will be like. Tesla might have gotten a good head start but next 5 years or so I think there's gonna be a lot more competition for them.
I might see if I can get out to test drive a model 3 this weekend.
I love that conversion. It needs to be chopped like a chort with flames though.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: OK Bro, the Tesla 3 is the greatest car evah! Its almost as good as a Ducatti (ok thats just a lie). Anyone who buys a different car is clearly mentally deranged. We get it. Can we talk about the topic now?
Hey, Im just responding to your posts, you don't need to put words in my mouth. But I do think its a great car. IF you don't want to talk there are thousands of other topics to choose from on dakka. Don't be sad just because you are wrong.
I think on this note we can officially rename the thread "Andrew1975 shills for Tesla", and perhaps someone else can start a new thread were we can discuss EV's OTHER than Teslas.
Frazzled wrote: OK Bro, the Tesla 3 is the greatest car evah! Its almost as good as a Ducatti (ok thats just a lie). Anyone who buys a different car is clearly mentally deranged. We get it. Can we talk about the topic now?
Hey, Im just responding to your posts, you don't need to put words in my mouth. But I do think its a great car. IF you don't want to talk there are thousands of other topics to choose from on dakka. Don't be sad just because you are wrong.
The thread is about electric cars. Its not about the Tesla 3. Also, not wrong about anything posted yet. So nanny nanny boo boo!
You were wrong about the Kona being cheaper weren't you? Also it coming with any kind of self drive.......yep. I mean you did say "thats a real car and not a rich mans car."which to me makes it sound like you thought it was cheaper.
I've discussed a lot of different EV's also. Many of you just had misconceptions about EV's and Teslas. I'm just answering questions and setting records straight. From them being worse for the environment, to haveing crappy performance, range, lack of charging.....I mean many of you had no idea how far EVs have come. If that makes you sad....I don't know what to tell you.
Frazzled wrote: OK Bro, the Tesla 3 is the greatest car evah! Its almost as good as a Ducatti (ok thats just a lie). Anyone who buys a different car is clearly mentally deranged. We get it. Can we talk about the topic now?
Hey, Im just responding to your posts, you don't need to put words in my mouth. But I do think its a great car. IF you don't want to talk there are thousands of other topics to choose from on dakka. Don't be sad just because you are wrong.
I think on this note we can officially rename the thread "Andrew1975 shills for Tesla", and perhaps someone else can start a new thread were we can discuss EV's OTHER than Teslas.
Says the guy who thought battery degradation in EVS was a major problem. It isn't. And couldn't find a charging station, its called google learn to use it. I' mean you've tried to throw out every garbage argument that there is.....and they were garbage.
And yes, dollar for dollar I THINK its the best new car you can buy right now...which is why I bought one. I did a lot of research, like I said I had my mind set on a new mazda 3, but the Tesla just made more sense.
Still sexy though
also
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2019/04/11 04:38:56
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
Ummm, no, If you get hit and the battery or electric motor get damaged, you need special mechanics. The 35K model 3 comes with same safety features as the Kona, Kona does not even offer self drive or auto pilot of any kind. Kona is also going to have a destination fee and has less horsepower. Its a far inferior car with an inferior charging network....do they even have one?
If you want to talk about availabity the Kona is only available in CA.
Stop digging please. If a car, electric or otherwise, has a battery or motor problem the battery/motor gets replaced. Period. That's how auto repair has been working for the last few decades:
Plug the car to the diagnose machine, the machine tells you what to replace and you replace it.
Any half-decent mechanic (and a lot of not even decent ones) can do what, and service technicians nowadays do just that: remove broken piece, put a new one.
The only problem for Tesla is they don't have enough technicians and enough parts to service the cars they had on the road at the beginning of 2018, nevermind nowadays.
A big, expensive, battery pack MIGHT get repaired (by someone else, not at the service) but they'll still put your car a new one and keep the refurbished one for the secondary market.
Wow, some pretty extreme fanboyism going on here! Obviously there are geographical differences, both in terms of expected price for cars and what purpose those cars are turned to. The US is generally cheaper and, in general, cars usually have to do more than just drive around in city traffic, which changes customer expectations.
As luck would have it, I'm in the market for a new car in the UK. We're on a bit of a budget due to a new house and wanting to have kids in the near future so we're looking for a balance of long-term economy and purchase price. It's no good having an EV that's really cheap to run if the price is out of our budget in the first place. And that's the biggest problem in the UK (and I assume the rest of Europe) at the moment. Manufacturers are adding anywhere from £4k to £10k for electric versions of their standard cars. That's a significant extra outlay which is pushing most electric cars out of our price range even when the corresponding ICE version is often well within our reach.
Tesla's much-vaunted Model 3 isn't even available yet and the price hasn't even been announced, though it seems from my research that the advertised $35k price is a bit of a misnomer in the first place, with some cars going up to almost $60k once you add on all the extras. Tesla are likely to run the same roll-out model in the UK where all their initial sales will be of much higher-priced Model 3s with all the extras added on, so actually being able to walk into a dealer and buy a Model 3 is probably over a year away in the UK. The charging infrastructure in my part of the country is also, quite frankly, laughable. It may be great in the US, but it's actually pretty bad outside of the south of the UK and particularly in Scotland, where I am. There are a grand total of 6 charging locations and none at all in Glasgow, which is our biggest city. Combine that with a lack of mechanics to service your car and the Tesla is basically a complete non-starter even if we could afford it. It would make much more sense to go with something like an electric VW Golf, which is a touch cheaper than the projected base price of a Model 3 and already has a servicing infrastructure in place.
Speaking of servicing, as we've been looking at cars we've been asking dealers whether there are any servicing issues with electrics or hybrids compared to normal cars and every single manufacturer has said no. We've also verified that through phoning the service centres directly rather than relying on the dealers themselves and they've all said the same thing.
We're still considering stretching to get an EV but at the moment Tesla is the least practical of all the EVs on sale, even if a Model 3 were available, which it isn't and won't be for quite a while. We're actually leaning more towards a hybrid right now, in the hope that in 3-5 years the electric technology will have matured and a lot of the infrastructure issues will have been sorted out.
Also, as the poster above alludes to, whilst Tesla may well offer rapid charging in the US, it isn't common over here so whilst you can in theory charge a car in half an hour or so, the reality is that if you pull into a services off the motorway in the UK and plug in to charge, you are looking more in the realms of 3 or 4 hours to charge and that is more than most people want to add on to the length of a journey.
The other day I had to travel from my home in Shropshire to Plymouth for work, a distance of just over 200 miles or so. I did it in one go and it took me a shade over 3 hours I think. I wouldn't have liked to have factored in an additional 2/3/4 hours sitting in a service station, drinking coffee and twiddling my thumbs. My wife, however, only uses her car for short hops, dropping kids off at school etc so an electric car would be perfect for her, assuming she is able to reliably charge it overnight. We are looking at getting a BMW i3 next time we change her car.
Slipspace wrote: Manufacturers are adding anywhere from £4k to £10k for electric versions of their standard cars.
Or even more, I test drove a Hyundai Ioniq last summer and the price gap between hybrid and electric was €10k, if went to the equivalent petrol/diesel model (i40) there was an extra 5-6k on top.
I also test drove a Leaf, and an equivalent petrol Pulsar was over 17K cheaper.
The Kona? something like 15K extra, especially because they were willing to discount more on ICE than on the electric.
15K is the wife's petrol bill for over 10 years. Without any tax help (which tend to last just 2-3 months around here) electrics don't make any financial sense.
We were ready and willing to take the electric route, but in the end bought an ICE model. We'll see in a few years' time.
The Tesla 3 started at €58K and started deliveries at an unspecified date in early 2019, so it was out of the question.
Slipspace wrote: Manufacturers are adding anywhere from £4k to £10k for electric versions of their standard cars.
Or even more, I test drove a Hyundai Ioniq last summer and the price gap between hybrid and electric was €10k, if went to the equivalent petrol/diesel model (i40) there was an extra 5-6k on top.
I also test drove a Leaf, and an equivalent petrol Pulsar was over 17K cheaper.
The Kona? something like 15K extra, especially because they were willing to discount more on ICE than on the electric.
15K is the wife's petrol bill for over 10 years. Without any tax help (which tend to last just 2-3 months around here) electrics don't make any financial sense.
We were ready and willing to take the electric route, but in the end bought an ICE model. We'll see in a few years' time.
The Tesla 3 started at €58K and started deliveries at an unspecified date in early 2019, so it was out of the question.
It's great to hear the experiences of folks shopping by economics. I don't care what I drive, really, and from the numbers in this thread (and the research I did as a result) it looked like it would currently take about 10 years to hit the break even point. And that's just not a realistic expectation for a car to last. I'm very excited about the new technology, don't get me wrong- it just isn't in the budget range yet.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
IIRC, there are issues with dealers servicing electric cars, in that you need different training and tools for working on the electrics. However, the big dealers will have that in hand; it's only if you end up going to the local garage in a railway arch that you'll have a problem.
AndrewGPaul wrote: IIRC, there are issues with dealers servicing electric cars, in that you need different training and tools for working on the electrics. However, the big dealers will have that in hand; it's only if you end up going to the local garage in a railway arch that you'll have a problem.
That lines up with what I have discovered. Servicing by a manufacturer-approved garage is pretty much the same regardless of whether you have a ICE, hybrid or EV, but the little guy running a family mechanic business may not be able to deal with it as easily. What this means in practical terms is that if you buy, for example, a VW electric you get the same service from their own service centres as if you'd bought any type of VW. The same applied to Ford, Toyota, etc.
The problem with Tesla is twofold. Firstly, they don't actually have many service centres in the first place. That means the offer of a courtesy car might not mean much of the service centre is 150 miles away. Secondly, there seems to be a supply and skills shortage in some areas.
There's nothing stopping independents servicing electrics - the tools and training is freely available, I think. It just costs money, and at the moment, there's no real reason for them to make that outlay.
I think for many people EV's aren't the best option just yet, but I think that will change over the next few years as more options become available, and there's more competition to hopefully drive prices down a bit.. and will need some time for more charging stations to go up and also get upgraded to be faster.
Depending on where you are they could be good for road trips, but seems the best use is for daily commuting in urban and suburban areas. I was checking out the chevy bolt online and was surprised to see it over $41k when you add in all the options. Where the tesla model 3 standard range + I was looking at comes in more like $38k, and it has even better tech inside. Of course the tesla gets super expensive real fast when you start adding in extras, hell even paint costs at least $1500 more if you want anything besides black. So I think at the low end versions, right now a Model 3 is your best bang for your buck compared to the other EVs that are similar prices.
2019/04/11 13:25:36
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
A lot of this is chicken and the egg type arguments. Teslas and other EVs may not work great where you live yet. The poster is in the US where the infrastructure has been building longer, it will get there, just like service and repairs will get there.
The model 3 can get expensive for sure, there is a lot of addon you can do, bigger battery, extra motor, performance up grade...you can almost double the price because the car was designed to be modular, but id still put them up against any car in their respective price ranges. Even the $35k isnt a cheap car, but its actually less than the average paid for new cars in the US in 2018. A base model 3 is still doing 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, which is pretty impressive. If you are looking for a sub 35K car then no its not for you. You'll have to wait until the tech gets cheaper, just like there were not super cheap automobiles when they first came out (even the model T was $850 when it came out, at the time your average worker made $400 dollars a year, eventually the price did drop to $350) but as adaption and tech progress they will get cheaper.
You can't compare a base model 3 to a Honda Civic. But lets look at other cars in the price range
2019 Acura TLX.
2019 Alfa Romeo Giulia. ...
2019 Audi A3. ...
2019 BMW 230i. ...
2019 Genesis G70. ...
2019 Jaguar XE. ...
2019 Lexus IS 300. ...
2019 Lincoln MKZ.
I'd take the Tesla, it beats all of their 0-60 times, is going to have less maintenance and cheaper fueling costs...but then I'm a performance guy.
Most if not all of the EVS are much more expensive than their ICE version, this is true, but in general you get better performance numbers, much less maintenance and upkeep...close to 0 in some instances, significant fuel savings, the convenience of waking up every morning to a fully fueled car and not having to go to gas stations. With thousands of less moving parts to break, you may be looking at a car you can drive reliably until the body falls apart, that could save you two maybe three car purchases down the road. In my opinion its worth it, but opinions may vary.
It is a newly rediscovered technology (one of the first cars ever built was electric) and the infrastructure and mastery of the technology is growing. Globally for many people it doesn't make sense yet, but in most parts of the US it does and thats going to be the model for the rest in the coming future.
The big change will be when we see more and more other large vehicles going electric, trucks and airplanes are next. Who knows when the military will switch.
As far as reliability. Ford has been making the f-150 forever. They had a recall of over a million cars because the transmission would mess up and had caused a bunch of accidents, so people took their trucks in for recalls, guess what happened? Now those trucks they fixed are CATCHING ON FIRE!
The big change will be when we see more and more other large vehicles going electric, trucks and airplanes are next. Who knows when the military will switch.
Indeed. I wonder what the limitations are now with larger vehicles - I am thinking 1) crossover SUVs; 2) mini vans; 3) commercial sized vans and commercial sized pickup trucks.
Query - what happens with the batteries and what keeps the bateries from getting weak over time? Car batteries get untrustworthy after about 2-3 years. Are these batteries different?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I know Tesla has a semi truck they are working on, but I think the range is only 500 miles, and is meant more for like fedex trucks going warehouse to warehouse and recharging while they unload and reload, rather than cross country stuff. They also have a pickup truck they haven't revealed yet. Also another company Rivan or something like that is doing trucks but also a couple years away. And I read somewhere that Ford has an EV F-150 coming soon so I'm curious to see what that will be like. Apparently there's a rumor going around where UPS trucks will be upgrading to Tesla guts soon too.
I don't know much about how batteries work but I think the lithium batteries that EV use were supposed to suck after a few years, but turns out do not and are lasting for a decade now with very little degradation or power loss. But I think it also depends on how well you take care of it, like you're not supposed to charge to 100% unless you really need it for a road trip, and also don't drain it.. keeping it between like 15% and 85% charge all the time is the key to making it last longer. Don't know how or why that is though.
So that's another thing.. if your max range is 300 miles, but you're only charging to 80% max, that means your effective range is more like 250 miles or so. But that's probably not an issue if it's a daily driver that you charge up at home after work every day
One other trick I saw that seemed like a cool way to save on your engery costs is you can set a timer to have your car only charge late at night in off peak hours when the electric is cheaper.
2019/04/11 14:56:10
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
The big change will be when we see more and more other large vehicles going electric, trucks and airplanes are next. Who knows when the military will switch.
Indeed. I wonder what the limitations are now with larger vehicles - I am thinking 1) crossover SUVs; 2) mini vans; 3) commercial sized vans and commercial sized pickup trucks.
Query - what happens with the batteries and what keeps the bateries from getting weak over time? Car batteries get untrustworthy after about 2-3 years. Are these batteries different?
Battery conditioning and management has massively increased their longevity. Basically the battery in your car is just a battery and has no management system because its a small part of the car. Also I think most car batteries are pretty old school and not Lithium Ion. EV batteries have a very sophisticated management and cooling system to keep them tip top.
I think the bigger question is how are Teslas motors rated at 1 million miles. Thats a hell of a lot of longevity (sorry don't know what other EV manufactures rate their motors at). Do you know how many electric starter motors or alternators (electric motor just reversed) I've had to replace in my life? Or window and mirror motors?
There are a lot of companies working on SUVs and pick up trucks. Tesla and another Chinese EV company (BYD) are already making Semis, The Chinese one is already on the market, while Tesala is still in testing and using them to deliver their own cars...but it is not in large scale production yet. I think for Europe and other countries the larger vans and smaller box trucks would be killers. Realistically commercial auto is where most of the pollution comes from. Could giant marine cargo ships be a possibility down the road? I think if you can find a way to keep them dry maybe, Sea water is extremely corrosive.
Also many companies originally planned of battery swapping....but charging technology and battery longevity progressed so quickly that the idea was thrown away as unnecessary and expensive. Much like Tuckers engine swapping idea....its just too complex and for EVS technology made it unnecessary.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/04/11 15:24:15
"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma
"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma
"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma
2019/04/11 15:03:20
Subject: Re:What do you think about electric cars?
The big change will be when we see more and more other large vehicles going electric, trucks and airplanes are next. Who knows when the military will switch.
Indeed. I wonder what the limitations are now with larger vehicles - I am thinking 1) crossover SUVs; 2) mini vans; 3) commercial sized vans and commercial sized pickup trucks.
Query - what happens with the batteries and what keeps the bateries from getting weak over time? Car batteries get untrustworthy after about 2-3 years. Are these batteries different?
The batteries in electric cars are lithium batteries - like the batteries in your phone, rather than the traditional car or truck battery. They do lose performance over time, but I've heard (can't confirm, I'm afraid) that the performance drop-off isn't as bad as the manufacturers first feared. Some manufactuers were offering lease options, so when the battery dropped to a certain threshold it'd be replaced as part of the lease; Renault were one such, I think. That might affect the second-hand market, if the leases aren't transferrable. The main technology imporvements have been making the batteries more efficient, so a new battery of the same dimensions as an older one will give a longer range.
They can be swapped, but it's a garage job, as the batteries tend to be integrated quite closely into the body of the vehicle; it's not like lifting out a car battery, or even swapping an engine or transmission. There's talk of using batteries which are no use for autmotive applications any more in power generation or domestic applications - hook up a big bank of them to your house so you can charge them during cheap times and then use battery power rather than mains supply at peak times. Or use them to store energy from wind or solar power farms to smooth out the supply.
There's been an electric version of the London black cab developed, which seems like an ideal use for an electric vehicle - short runs in an urban environment, and charge it up between jobs at the rank - and Royal Mail have got a fleet of electric vans. Electric urban and suburban buses would also seem like a good idea - quieter, less vibration, less pollution, and they all go back to the depot at night, so they can be charged regularly.
The batteries in ICE cars are good old lead acid type. It's a Victorian era technology which is surprisingly good if you don't mind a heavy weight.
Milk floats and warehouse based fork lifts are good examples of electric vehicles using lead-acid, because their performance envelope doesn't require a light-weight, long-range power supply.
Of course in an ICE car the battery is a very small component, and lead acid is a perfectly good technology for that application.
The big change will be when we see more and more other large vehicles going electric, trucks and airplanes are next. Who knows when the military will switch.
Indeed. I wonder what the limitations are now with larger vehicles - I am thinking 1) crossover SUVs; 2) mini vans; 3) commercial sized vans and commercial sized pickup trucks.
Query - what happens with the batteries and what keeps the bateries from getting weak over time? Car batteries get untrustworthy after about 2-3 years. Are these batteries different?
The batteries in electric cars are lithium batteries - like the batteries in your phone, rather than the traditional car or truck battery. They do lose performance over time, but I've heard (can't confirm, I'm afraid) that the performance drop-off isn't as bad as the manufacturers first feared. Some manufactuers were offering lease options, so when the battery dropped to a certain threshold it'd be replaced as part of the lease; Renault were one such, I think. That might affect the second-hand market, if the leases aren't transferrable. The main technology imporvements have been making the batteries more efficient, so a new battery of the same dimensions as an older one will give a longer range.
They can be swapped, but it's a garage job, as the batteries tend to be integrated quite closely into the body of the vehicle; it's not like lifting out a car battery, or even swapping an engine or transmission. There's talk of using batteries which are no use for autmotive applications any more in power generation or domestic applications - hook up a big bank of them to your house so you can charge them during cheap times and then use battery power rather than mains supply at peak times. Or use them to store energy from wind or solar power farms to smooth out the supply.
There's been an electric version of the London black cab developed, which seems like an ideal use for an electric vehicle - short runs in an urban environment, and charge it up between jobs at the rank - and Royal Mail have got a fleet of electric vans. Electric urban and suburban buses would also seem like a good idea - quieter, less vibration, less pollution, and they all go back to the depot at night, so they can be charged regularly.
Very informative! What happens if the batteries die early? We've all had phones and computers were the batteries died early in the life cycle. Do these companies have a battery warranty?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/11 16:46:56
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Necros wrote: I know Tesla's battery and drive train warranty is 100k miles or 8 years, but if you get the long range model 3, it's 120k miles.
I just googled and the Nissan Leaf is also 100k miles, but the chevy bolt is 60k miles.
Thats not bad.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Just to toss this in here I believe electric cars should be made around the idea of minimal environmental impact. Make them from recycled material and or based on the idea of maximum recycling. Batteries, engines, bodies electronics etc. should all be "green".
"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." Jesse "the mind" Ventura.
Techpriestsupport wrote: Just to toss this in here I believe electric cars should be made around the idea of minimal environmental impact. Make them from recycled material and or based on the idea of maximum recycling. Batteries, engines, bodies electronics etc. should all be "green".
If thats your feeling, why should it only be for EVs? Why not all cars, or products in general? I feel like EVs have enough hurtles to jump through already. I mean look at all the misconception about them already, if they are marketed as made out of recycled products, people may perceive them as low quality.
Now chances are that the steel and aluminum bodies that make up most of a car are made of or contain recycled material. There is actually no difference between recycled steel and aluminum vs virgin steel and aluminum, chemically its the same. So it could be. As a marketing tool though im not sure if it would be helpful or harmful.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/04/12 04:40:24
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