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I'm slightly bothered by "untranslated" alien names for Factions (etc). For example, it's easy to remember Space Marine Chapters. The Salamanders, the White Scars, the Iron Hands - these are actual names which evoke the appearance, nature, philosophy, or approach of these groups. The same goes for Chaos Legions, Ork Clans, Sororitas Orders, Genestealer Cults, and Drukhari Kabals. Even Tyranid Hive Fleets at least use actual mythological names which a) are actual words you are more likely to remember, b) somewhat relate to their modus operandi. All the Astra Militarum regiments use "made up" planet names, but these all include some combination of obvious reference and helpful subtitle; Krieg literally means "War", and comes with a suffix of "Death Corps". Valhallan is a Nordic afterlife, and appends "Ice Warriors". Catachan Jungle Fighters. Mordian Iron Guard. Armaggedon Steel Legion.

Then we get to T'au and Necrons, and I'm left to wonder: what exactly is a Bor'kan? Novokh, Nihilakh, Mephrit, and Sautekh are unnecessarily difficult to remember at all, much less associate with their respective specialties. T'au are especially frustrating, because they've been playing the subfaction game since their inception, and they did it really well: everyone remembers the Farsight Enclaves, which have a straightforward, evocative name that manages to avoid using even a single apostrophe or made-up alien word. I kind of doubt that the "O'Shovah Shan'al" would roll off the tongue or stick in the mind in the same way. T'au also get into this with their units, albeit mainly thanks to Forge World. Crisis Battlesuit? Cool. Broadside Battlesuit? Cool and informative. Stealth Battlesuit? Straightforward, at least. Newer suits like the Ghostkeel and Riptide also follow this pattern. So why give other suits names like R'varna, Ta'unar, and Y'vahra? "Commander Shadowsun" is a great "localization" of an alien name that's memorable and descriptive – Shas'o R'alai and Shas'o R'myr aren't. There's a reason the Dire Avengers aren't called Fian Dialcaman Squads.

Eldar Craftworlds have the grandfather clause (plus some Celtic associations), but they also have some solid epithets: I wouldn't object in the least if Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors started being used more alongside Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, and Iyanden. So... solutions? Are there any known translations or epithets for the made-up names of the T'au or Necron Factions? Are there any other names that could really do with an English subtitle?

TL;DR: non-human factions dont follow human cultural conventions in naming.

Really if we want to talk about weird naming then we should be talking about Aeldari, Drukhari, T'au, Astra Militarum and all that rubbish.

I always thought Necrons were meant to sound Egyptian on account of how newcrons are just tomb kings.

Complaining that alien cultures are using alien names is truly dumb.

Yes, how dare a fictional setting embrace fictional names for their fictional factions. The horror.

I guess the other extreme would be the Space Wolf, Canis Wolfborn, wielding wolf claws and riding his Thunderwolf into battle.

Also the fact that the Farsight Enclave is the most close combat oriented doesn't really fit the name=modus operandi scheme... but having the alien name and a moniker used by imperial troops to classify their opponents would be entertaining, fluff wise.

RevlidRas wrote:
Eldar Craftworlds at least have some solid epithets that should really see more use: I wouldn't object in the least if Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors overtook Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, and Iyanden in common use.

GW already fractured our Craftworld, don't try to take our name away too.

Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors are warhosts, not craftworlds. Every Craftworld can produce Ghost Warriors or Swordwind.

Tyranids names are 100% imperial both the fleets and the units.

I actually agree with OP. I have a hard time embracing the “alien” factions because of their naming schemes just don’t stick in my mind. The only xenos I play is nids and he’s right, the hive fleets have human terms.

Crazy Jay wrote:
I actually agree with OP. I have a hard time embracing the “alien” factions because of their naming schemes just don’t stick in my mind. The only xenos I play is nids and he’s right, the hive fleets have human terms.

That's because no one has ever talked to a Hive Fleet and gotten what it calls itself.

Imperium: "Say, what do you call yourselves?"
Hive Fleet: -devours-
Imperium 2: Let's just call them "Leviathan" or something, yeah?

Honestly, the only faction I struggle with in this regard is Necrons. I must have looked at Nephrekh and Nihilakh dozens of time but I still couldn't tell you which was which without a codex in front of me..

Tau unit names are mostly Imperial 'nicknames' for Tau units, the alien sounding ones are the actual tau names for those things, generally because they're uncommon enough that the Imperium doesn't have common names for them.

Couldn't disagree with the OP more. Another pile of adjective noun verb names is the last thing this game needs. Jesus, it was one of the first things that made me sick in my mouth when AoS dropped.

If anything I would say GW struggles now with coming up with interesting or genuinely innovative names. Fyreslayers? Really...

Wolf lord of the wolf on a wolf with two wolves wearing a wolftooth necklace wulfenstone with a wolf claw and the fangsword of the deathwolf.

Never forget.

(This was the wolfiest fieldable character for space wolves in 7th edition)

I think many are missing the OP's point....

It's a game for humans.....naming something that doesn't stick in any way is stupid for a gaming company....

"Hey Billy, what's that thing called?"....."It's a T'au R'varna with Shas'o Av'cado of the Bordorken Seepage clan or tribe er something.....I just call it Neil and Bob because that's what it does."

Being realistic with naming conventions follows political correctness in the, "Dumbass ideas for $800 Alex"

And then you have orks who are potentially the most literal minded race in their naming conventions.

"Do dey shoot? Den dey are shootaz."

"Do dey nick stuff? Den dey are Lootaz."

"I'm da boss? Da boss of WAR! WARBOSS!"

Bless orks.

 Da-Rock wrote:
I think many are missing the OP's point....

It's a game for humans.....naming something that doesn't stick in any way is stupid for a gaming company....

"Hey Billy, what's that thing called?"....."It's a T'au R'varna with Shas'o Av'cado of the Bordorken Seepage clan or tribe er something.....I just call it Neil and Bob because that's what it does."

Being realistic with naming conventions follows political correctness in the, "Dumbass ideas for $800 Alex"

Which is the equivalent of saying Sauron from the Lord of the Rings should have been named Bob...

 Ghaz wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
I think many are missing the OP's point....

It's a game for humans.....naming something that doesn't stick in any way is stupid for a gaming company....

"Hey Billy, what's that thing called?"....."It's a T'au R'varna with Shas'o Av'cado of the Bordorken Seepage clan or tribe er something.....I just call it Neil and Bob because that's what it does."

Being realistic with naming conventions follows political correctness in the, "Dumbass ideas for $800 Alex"

Which is the equivalent of saying Sauron from the Lord of the Rings should have been named Bob...

Well LotR was not designed with a playable wargame in mind. Having names which are reasonably understandable is a plus, but at the same time having alien names adds more flavor. There is a balance to be struck, no doubt. Even adding a bit of title can go a long way "Hipthk'An, the Bronze Legion" gets the best of both worlds, though obviously that can go awry as well.

But I'll take anything over "Deadwalkers" (for 40k folks, that is what they named the zombie subfaction in AoS).

I'm okay with Eldar, Tau and Necrons having truly alien names and not just some kind of latin or english. If you ask me it makes more sense to have aliens with alien names than viking werewolfs in a setting 38000 years from now, but of course I'm aware that 40K is more of a parody of Sci-Fi tropes than anything else.
I'll take a a Bor'kan XV88 over a Sloppity Bilepiper. And in both cases I wouldn't know what it actually is without background knowledge.
I grew up as a Trekki, so I'm familiar with Klingons from Qo'nos in their B'rel class, lead by a Dahar-Master on their way to Sto'vo'kor believing in Kah'less and calling you a p'tah. And you know what? That's awesome! It's what gives an alien vibe to fictional cultures. It's what makes the elves from lotr interesting and gives them a culture. Same with Tau and Klingons.

40K more often than not suffers from being told from imperial perspective alone. 90% of Black library books are from an imperial perspective (my guess), the rulebook talks mainly about the imperium. So I like it when they bring in these little notions to make the other races stand out and give them personality. Orks and Tyranids lack that personality a bit - but that's because they're more NPC races to be shot down. We can't say in our language how tyranids call themselves, they don't speak and won't let us know. And Orks are influenced by humanity so much they invented a similar language (that's my head canon probably, but why would they have english titles for their clans?).

Removed, Rule #1 please - BrookM

And Orks are influenced by humanity so much they invented a similar language (that's my head canon probably, but why would they have english titles for their clans?).

Oh orks have their own language. You can hear it being spoken at length at the start of the Ork audrio drama "Prophets of the Waaagh!!!" I think what we often hear/read is the best orky translation.

 Sleep Spell wrote:
I guess the other extreme would be the Space Wolf, Canis Wolfborn, wielding wolf claws and riding his Thunderwolf into battle.

Also the fact that the Farsight Enclave is the most close combat oriented doesn't really fit the name=modus operandi scheme... but having the alien name and a moniker used by imperial troops to classify their opponents would be entertaining, fluff wise.

for a bit but it'd quickly get annoying ahveing to generate two names, etc. Battletech initally did this for the clans but abandoned it pretty quick after TRO 3050

Why i can understand, I think this is just debating to remove the flaver of the setting.

When it comes down to it, Space Wolves tell me as much as Biel-tan does.

Its really no difernt from players having to learn D&D names and terms for the first time. When all they have play is 40k.
Or even learning a second language.

Like, if someone had asked me what a ravenwing Darkshoud was before today. I would probably say its a dark angels thing. But the words are meaningless without other info i know.

cody.d. wrote:
And then you have orks who are potentially the most literal minded race in their naming conventions.

"Do dey shoot? Den dey are shootaz."

"Do dey nick stuff? Den dey are Lootaz."

"I'm da boss? Da boss of WAR! WARBOSS!"

Bless orks.

Though somewhat lost the plot with the new buggies? ‘Boomdakka Snazzwagon’? Really?

Only one that irks me much is Drukari or whatever name they gave the dark eldar. I liked Eldar, has a nice ring to it, simple...evokes a certain vibe. But then GW got all goofy with it and came up with aeldari drukari and whatever else.

Moriarty wrote:
Though somewhat lost the plot with the new buggies? ‘Boomdakka Snazzwagon’? Really?

GW have definitely had one word too many on a lot of new units. The "sloppity bilepiper" being perhaps the worst.
Sometimes they don't seem to be able to find a good middle ground between "horticulous slimux" and the bloodmaster, bloodcrusher, skullmaster, skulltaker, bloodletter, bloodthirster, blood slaughterer, skullcannon, lord of skulls, tower of skulls, and herald... on a bloodthrone.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I'm okay with Eldar, Tau and Necrons having truly alien names and not just some kind of latin or english. If you ask me it makes more sense to have aliens with alien names than viking werewolfs in a setting 38000 years from now, but of course I'm aware that 40K is more of a parody of Sci-Fi tropes than anything else.
I'll take a a Bor'kan XV88 over a Sloppity Bilepiper. And in both cases I wouldn't know what it actually is without background knowledge.
I grew up as a Trekki, so I'm familiar with Klingons from Qo'nos in their B'rel class, lead by a Dahar-Master on their way to Sto'vo'kor believing in Kah'less and calling you a p'tah. And you know what? That's awesome! It's what gives an alien vibe to fictional cultures. It's what makes the elves from lotr interesting and gives them a culture. Same with Tau and Klingons.

Okay, but here's what I'm getting at:

Commander Farsight's name is actually Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kais Mont'yr.

The Space Wolves are actually the Vlka Fenryka.

The Swooping Hawks are actually called the Fian Siispeiraigh.

The Evil Sunz are actually called the Uz-Baad.

Bloodletters are actually called Khak'akamshy'y.

The Skitarii are actually called the 01110011 01101011 01101001 01110100 01100001 01110010 01101001 01101001.

And I don't want to take those names away! But we call them Commander Farsight, the Space Wolves, Swooping Hawks, the Evil Sunz, Bloodletters, and the Skitarii, the last of which is the least comprehensible but is at least clearly pseudo-Latin of the sort we're familiar with (and comes with an immediately comprehensible suffix – Skitarii Rangers, Skitarii Vanguard, etc).

This is good for the game, because it means I don't need to take a correspondence course or master a glottal click to describe the troops in my army. It makes those troops, and the characters involved, far more evocative. And it also helps me understand the mindset of alien races far more: if I'm told that a character's is Shas'o No'Sho Pron'To, I zone out and learn nothing. If I'm told that his name is Commander Swiftflight, a partly mocking name that refers to his quick retreats, I know exactly what his culture thinks of him and how they express it.

Even non-Ork or non-Tyranid players can take a decent shot at remembering some Hive Fleets or Ork Clans, because those stick in the mind. I guarantee you, anyone who doesn't play T'au or Necrons cannot remember their Factions. Most people can remember who the Necron gods are – Deceiver, Nightbringer, and hey, maybe you remember the Void Dragon and Outsider too, even though they never got models. But I very much doubt you can remember the Necron name for the Nightbringer, off the top of your head.

This may just be a place where people understand, but disagree with you.

I do not think its good for the game, So many of the English names just bleed into each other as is. Or the more simple.

It depends on the name in its context and your understanding off it.
But i mean you bring up the eldar craftworlds in your opening post, and i would completly disagree with you about them taking over in such way.
The same way, I not sure i want to see a space marine named Jack since most english players will be able to say it and remember it.

RevlidRas wrote:


Eldar Craftworlds at least have some solid epithets that should really see more use: I wouldn't object in the least if Swordwind, Wild Host, Starstriders, and Ghost Warriors overtook Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Alaitoc, and Iyanden in common use. Are there any known translations or epithets for the made-up names of the T'au or Necron Factions? Are there any other names that could really do with a catchy English subtitle?

If you actually bothered to do a bit of research, the majority of Eldar Craftworld names stem from Irish (Gaeilge) and other Celtic derivatives which genre ripped for Elvish and in turn was put into 40k. Biel-Tan, Saim-hann, Lugganath all stem from Celtic festivals and you have other Craftworlds like Ibraesil named after a mythological island of the coast of Ireland. So they aren't just invented to sound quirky.

I could go on but you get the picture, they're meant to be alien sounding as they are from alien cultures.