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That's how you know it's probably real. That kind of thing is exactly what the real Games Workshop would do.

Although to be serious, that's obviously a sign the new FW Index will reduce the minimum unit size to 5.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Thairne wrote:
Well maybe the transvector can transport Pteraxxi... that I can see working somewhat.
But at what, probably 1,3$ per point this is rediculous indeed.
And I thought chickens were bad...

What would be the point of transporting a flying unit in a flyer?

Well they have largely short ranged weapons or want to get into melee.
We do not know if they can deep strike so flying 50" into the backline and deploying the next turn can on one hand circumvent some DS screen IF they have it and otherwise deliver them fast and furious so they can get to work.

Dollars to donuts these things were supposed to have the 'Skitarii' keyword on them, given that it's a Pteraxii piloting them.

All of our other non-Knight vehicles have the 'Skitarii' keyword on them, so I think we might be losing that.

Oh. That means you cannot even get it to 3+ with Protector let alone to 2+ if it had a data tether...
*sad archeopter crashy noise

Dead on arrival.

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's how you know it's probably real. That kind of thing is exactly what the real Games Workshop would do.

Although to be serious, that's obviously a sign the new FW Index will reduce the minimum unit size to 5.

Or it's a sign that we might get a Secutarii Axiarch to shut me up.

pfft haha i didnt even notice it lacked Skitarri keyword.
Seriously, this feels like an ork release. Every glance at it yields another 'wait but then this..." leading down another hole of stupidity.
Man this thing is sad....

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's how you know it's probably real. That kind of thing is exactly what the real Games Workshop would do.

Although to be serious, that's obviously a sign the new FW Index will reduce the minimum unit size to 5.

Or there's a new Secutarii unit coming out...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
pfft haha i didnt even notice it lacked Skitarri keyword.
Seriously, this feels like an ork release. Every glance at it yields another 'wait but then this..." leading down another hole of stupidity.
Man this thing is sad....

To be fair?
It might be that this thing's "Command Uplink" allows for it to grant the same Doctrina Imperative effects around it. We haven't seen all the stratagems.
Might also be that there is something regarding synergy for the gunship->bomber operating in tandem.

All of that said, hopefully we'll see the cavalry rules soon...

but a unit that relies ENTIRELY on stratagems to be remotely functional... once you run out of CP, it is dead weight.
I'd rather have it be functional on its own than be near broken with stratagem support, which it needs to be to run the risk IMO.

No wargear options besides comm uplink exchanging for chaff, just the three datasheet loadouts, no Skitarii (this is so bizarre as to make me think it was an oversight), moderate transport capacity (though no special case for Kataphrons, so funny mental image of six 60mm base servitors piling into and out of it clown car style).

Most exciting things are the strong maneuverability (which will be less of an issue for more rigid Flyers in 9th anyways) and the slightly better than expected bomb profile.

Disagree. It's a flyer that actually makes you choose if you want to reliably hit things(it has a 3+ BS natively, while unwounded) or be harder to hit all the time.

With the Fusilave(bomber)? I don't see myself wanting Chaff too much, as staying mobile isn't a bad thing for it since the bombs don't get penalized for moving.--and since the bombs are dropped by moving over things, keeping the Uplink is a Good Thing as you can 'switch off' an enemy aura.
Stratoraptor? I see myself using the Chaff Launcher on it, alongside of the Hover Jets.
Transvector could go either way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Madjob wrote:
No wargear options besides comm uplink exchanging for chaff, just the three datasheet loadouts, no Skitarii (this is so bizarre as to make me think it was an oversight), moderate transport capacity (though no special case for Kataphrons, so funny mental image of six 60mm base servitors piling into and out of it clown car style).

Most exciting things are the strong maneuverability (which will be less of an issue for more rigid Flyers in 9th anyways) and the slightly better than expected bomb profile.

Kataphron aren't allowed in it. Electropriests( ), Skitarii, Secutarii, and Techpriests are the only things allowed in.

 Kanluwen wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Madjob wrote:
No wargear options besides comm uplink exchanging for chaff, just the three datasheet loadouts, no Skitarii (this is so bizarre as to make me think it was an oversight), moderate transport capacity (though no special case for Kataphrons, so funny mental image of six 60mm base servitors piling into and out of it clown car style).

Most exciting things are the strong maneuverability (which will be less of an issue for more rigid Flyers in 9th anyways) and the slightly better than expected bomb profile.

Kataphron aren't allowed in it. Electropriests( ), Skitarii, Secutarii, and Techpriests are the only things allowed in.

Ah right, glanced over it a bit too quickly, spotted "<Forge World> Skitarii Infantry" and my brain just ignored the Skitarii in the middle.

Its not accurate. Our entire army (minus katas/bots) hits on 3s. And this thing doesnt ignore heavy, so its either REALLY easy to kill because it ditched hard to hit to have equal firepower for +20pts vs a Skorpius, or its hitting on 4s to be slightly tougher to kill than a Skorpius.
Why would you want this thing? Every role it can do we have something far better already. Bombing isnt that amazing and thats really all it offers we dont have....oh wait the pterrax are gonna do that too (sorta) and theirs is actually deadly sounding.

Where's the point value? PLs are being revamped as part of 9th, so I'm not sure we can generalize from that any more.

Though I agree that the gunboat one looks pretty limp.

This isnt a 9th release, so its still safe to assume 1PL=20Pt

They are going to release a big points adjustment with 9th, they stated that in that big QNA session.

Yes, but they also said the PA books were made with 9th in mind, and while that may not really be true for the first ones, it clearly is true for these last ones. So I really wouldn't be surprised if the PLs on these sheets are the same value as they will be in 9th, whereas the ones in the codex probably aren't.

I'm not saying they'll be dramatically different or anything, just that I wouldn't bet on them corresponding exactly to what we think.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if it isn't even more than 20 points more than the skorpius, even budget flyers are usually around 130 points, and this is arguably one step up from that (though one step below the really good stuff).

Long story short: I take back any bad word I told about the planes. They are priced so aggressively I want to pick 3 bombers now for 130ppm with serpent shield (-15 if commlink). 164 for Gunship, 100 for transport.

I'll delete it if linking points leaks is not allowed (let me know then), but we can't whine. We just can't.

Sterylizors 32 points each if I'm reading that right? Lol...

Can definitely whine, the gunship is a joke at that price point. It would be dubious value at 140. Bomber looks about what you'd expect. Transport is about what you'd expect too but it just confirms it's kinda junk - 100 points for a model that doesn't actually do anything, with a transport capacity too small to deliver anything really threatening.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
This isnt a 9th release, so its still safe to assume 1PL=20Pt

They are going to release a big points adjustment with 9th, they stated that in that big QNA session.

Our PL to pts ratio has never been that. Trust me my group has considered using PL a few times but whether I counted my PL compared to others for the same points or was 30-40 HIGHER than any other army there.

The points are up on Facebook in French.

164 for a Stratoraptor,
110 for Fusilave
100 for transvector
15ppm skystalkers
17ppm(!) sterylizors
14ppm Raiders
16ppm Sulphurhounds

Can't see what wargear cost on the doggos are though so might be higher.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sterylizors 32 points each if I'm reading that right? Lol...

17... The 15pts weapon is Heavy Phosphor

Of course they are going to be aggressively priced point-wise - they are a new hot $100 kit that they want to make bank on. Then a year or so later Chapter Approved 2021 will increase their points cost in the name of "balance."

How many Knights Castellan did you see on tabletops upon release, and then how many did you see after their points adjustment (i.e. after GW recouped their costs + a handsome profit)?

17 points for a 2W flyer with a 12 inch flamer? Doesn't pass the smell test.

130pts for the bomber?

Ork Burna Bommas are 132pts and were considered "niche" until the new strat to auto-explode for flat3 damage popped up. Only reason orks used it at all before was orks dont have many MW options, it did jack all outside of those bombs.
I fail to see how the admech bomber with a teeny-tiny better bomb rule (3Dice vs Vehicle/Monster) will be of note when the army already has plenty of mortal wound access anyway. Not like its stubbers hitting on 4s will do anything.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sterylizors 32 points each if I'm reading that right? Lol...

Can definitely whine, the gunship is a joke at that price point. It would be dubious value at 140. Bomber looks about what you'd expect. Transport is about what you'd expect too but it just confirms it's kinda junk - 100 points for a model that doesn't actually do anything, with a transport capacity too small to deliver anything really threatening.

I'm reading it as that the wargear for each of the squads is 0? So 13 and 17 each by the looks of it. I could be wrong though, just at first glance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
17 points for a 2W flyer with a 12 inch flamer? Doesn't pass the smell test.

if i'm honest, it is around the points cost i was expecting for them, based on the Infiltrator and Ruststalker cost etc. Didn't expect the Skystalkers to be 15ppm though. A little less than i thought!

Yeah I couldn't read the text so I just found the only points value I could believe, but it is the heavy phosphor blaster. It does seem to be listed there as a zero point option. Which makes me question whether this is real/accurate. I have a hard time believing even GW would price a 2W flyer with a 12 inch S4 -1 flamer that ignores cover at only 17 points a model just to sell a new kit. Even putting aside the 3 S5 -1 attacks they get on the charge too, that's kinda absurd.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
130pts for the bomber?

Ork Burna Bommas are 132pts and were considered "niche" until the new strat to auto-explode for flat3 damage popped up. Only reason orks used it at all before was orks dont have many MW options, it did jack all outside of those bombs.
I fail to see how the admech bomber with a teeny-tiny better bomb rule (3Dice vs Vehicle/Monster) will be of note when the army already has plenty of mortal wound access anyway. Not like its stubbers hitting on 4s will do anything.

On a bomber that can do its run each turn, has serpent shield, has an easy access to cover and -hit (at least yet), that can do two pivots (and second one of these pivots is DURING the movement), and that was teased to have a tremor shells-like stratagem linked with it. 130 is a stupidly good price for this combo IMO. Oh, and which can (without serpent shield but 15pts cheaper) disable auras, and which we can auto-explode. And hover, but that's not that valid for the bomber specifically.

I don't think it's stupidly good, but the bomber does seem aggressively priced. The gunboat is junk at that price. The transport is kinda junk too, not because of the points per se but because of the really weird combination of high durability and very low transport capacity.

The gunboat's pricing is so weird it makes me think there must be some very powerful stratagem you can use with it - maybe move shoot move - because otherwise it'd just be kinda silly.

yukishiro1 wrote:
17 points for a 2W flyer with a 12 inch flamer? Doesn't pass the smell test.

That's because the phosphor torches are 15 (!!) points.

Edit: scratch that, misread the phosphor carbine as the torch (even more confusing why those are so expensive). "Chalumeau a phosphore" is undoubtedly the phosphor torch and is 0 points. That's nuts.

I thought that initially, hence the 32 points comment. But that's the heavy phosphor rifle, I'm pretty sure. I think the torch is the thing two below that starting with a "chal" (I can't read what it actually says).

Yeah, it's "chalumeau" which means "blowtorch." Is it possible that's a 6, not a 0? That's make them 23 a model, which seems more reasonable. But nope, I zoomed in, it's definitely a zero.

if they seriously priced the phospher torch at 15pts whoever priced them would need a good smack lol.
Same cost as the heavy phospher for -2 str, not even half the range, but autohits is WAY off on the "equal cost" margin lol.

17ppm sounds a point or two high, but thats managable to me. Now the question is can i load the entire unit that way, as i probably missed it but ive only seen mixed loadouts.

Also adding to the bomber discussion; i just dont see the flares making that big a difference since it has 10 wounds. 3 lascannons will still kill it typically, at best some small arms are needed to ping off that last wound. Its not like this thing can zoom out, corkscrew, bomb, and go right back to your side of the table. It'll get more options for bombing runs but i highly doubt it'll get more than 1 a game unless you let it swing really wide to avoid parking right next to their entire army (and negating Stygies by doing that)
Had it had 12-13 wounds, it would be annoying as most units with that -1 damage cant do that much damage unless they just overkill it in the first place, which saves the rest of your stuff from being shot.