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My philosophy is: Don't play something good. Get good at playing something.

In 40k, a mediocre army that you practice more with is going to outperform the net list that you've only played once or twice.

Sure, but that's not really the question. The question is do you want to buy models now not even knowing how they're going to work in pretty basic ways, when you could just wait a few weeks and find out first?

I mean obviously the answer to that for some people here is "yes, I do want to buy the models now rather than waiting till I know what they'll do." And that's fine. Just seems a bit odd to me.

 Tastyfish wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Yes raiders are superior but sulphur hounds aren't bad you just need to max out raiders first and I cant see many doing it although I would love to see a maxed out cavalry list.

I don't think pteraxii is a difficult choice because the answer is neither

Our existing options do the drop in better because of the lack of survivability again it's not that pteraxii are massively weaker it's just that most lists probably only want 1 or 2 units that perform that role and lucius corpuscarii are way more efficient for your first and WoM infilitrators the second, plus 8th terrain rules make them hard to hide being on flying bases and with no durability splat.

I think the strats certainly open up a bit more room for them there too. Corpuscari might have the edge in shooting, and infiltrators being better with WoM. But neither can give -1 to hit to a Deathstar, which more than makes up the gap between them and the other two along with their movement (outside of a Stygies list).

I've also noticed that the rad saturation secondary trait is also not limited to non-vehicles.

Yeah and the Skystalkers actually have a bit more deepstrike survivability and threat range too. Having the option to be set up further away instead of being forced to because your screened out and then being safe from the likes of auspex scans is a valid tactic. Having double the range means you could set them up in say a building midfield and still use that 24" range to WoM something or plonk away at a target that infiltrators/corpuscarii wouldnt be able to reach due to a buffer of chaff zoning them out from any juicier targets.

Skystalkers pretty much invalidate Infiltrators, unless your really hard pressed to find 4pts. If your wanting mass str 5 ap 2 short ranged shooting, go for the electro priests. If you want more safety and choice of targets when you arrive from deepstrike with the output of infiltrators, go for Skystalkers.

If it were me I'd go for the option that doesnt care much about screening, and is immune to auspex scans by deploying 13" away and still having the extra 11" range to play with past that 13" distance from the screen, unlike the 3" with a 9" deepstrike from Corpuscarii.

Both units do their things differently and will appeal to different play styles. And like you said, the option of having a -1 to hit is great for when you need it, and having access to +1 to hit due to being skitarii is nice too.


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yukishiro1 wrote:
Sure, but that's not really the question. The question is do you want to buy models now not even knowing how they're going to work in pretty basic ways, when you could just wait a few weeks and find out first?

I mean obviously the answer to that for some people here is "yes, I do want to buy the models now rather than waiting till I know what they'll do." And that's fine. Just seems a bit odd to me.

I'm with you Yukishiro1, I'm not buying any units or the book unit 9th is out and in my hands. Having too many models to begin with (over 25k points worth of orkz....) I've come to realise, and some of my mates too, that we just impulse buy because it looks nice, but then you dont actually build or paint them, you hobby butterfly your way through multiple releases and you look back and god jesus why did I buy a 2k slaves to darkness army.... I play AoS like once every 3 months....

We dont have that far to wait for 9th and everyday we are getting some drip fed info on what changes are install too. If weve waited 2 months to get Engine War, we can wait an extra month for the new edition if suddenly there is a day 1 errata that bumps up the prices of all vehicles, suddenly everyones lists are gonna take a huge hit.

Playing it safe and waiting is perfectly fine, but If people want to go buy things to paint and play for the last few weeks of 8th then that's ok too even if I dont agree with it for me 8th is over, I'm no longer looking at the new releases and our army with 8th in mind.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Sure, but that's not really the question. The question is do you want to buy models now not even knowing how they're going to work in pretty basic ways, when you could just wait a few weeks and find out first?

I mean obviously the answer to that for some people here is "yes, I do want to buy the models now rather than waiting till I know what they'll do." And that's fine. Just seems a bit odd to me.

If I were smarter before I'd buy and assemble my models regularly, paint in sub-assemblies to avoid problems with reaching certain details, and had my collection TT-ready to hit bigger events with painting restrictions. This is why I'm buying all new boxes in a similar pace and starting to work on them as soon as I get them, to not repeat past mistakes and have painted units when I figure out how to use them


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As far as Skystalkers go, I actually like their niche. Infiltrators but with Fly and greater range and bombing runs and soaring away... Nothing not to love. Which is a pity because after 2 years in the hobby I've just managed to finish magnetising and TT-painting 23 Sicarians...

Maybe Ruststalkers spam with the new outflanking stratagem will make it worthwile

ive been good about that with my admech, about 3.5k or so admech and 1 knight/5 armigers, only the 2 helverines, cawl, and 2 boxes of destroyers arent painted atm. And ive been putting the destroyers off because i HATE painting that model, helverines because i ...just havnt wanted to use them apparently lol

Orks? Dude i probably have 7000pts painted and that much again unpainted, probably a quarter of that still on a damn sprue lol

Points costs are going up across the board, and in extremely uneven ways:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/

Intercessors only going up 3 points a model, an 18% increase, while cultists increase in cost by 50%. This raises all sorts of red flags, but even assuming they know what they're doing on a basic level, this is going to completely mess up anybody's list building attempts. Which seems like another reason to shy away from buying new models now, at least large quantities of them.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/

Intercessors have gone up 3ppm and cultists by 1ppm?

Also 12CP at 2k, with 1 a battleround?


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"a global points reset ensures everyone starts in the same place on Day 1, with no established meta or ‘best army’"


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 Vineheart01 wrote:
ive been good about that with my admech, about 3.5k or so admech and 1 knight/5 armigers, only the 2 helverines, cawl, and 2 boxes of destroyers arent painted atm. And ive been putting the destroyers off because i HATE painting that model, helverines because i ...just havnt wanted to use them apparently lol

Orks? Dude i probably have 7000pts painted and that much again unpainted, probably a quarter of that still on a damn sprue lol

Well it was nearing 30k back in 7th, but looted wagons, skullhamma tanks and big guns no longer exist. I sold my whole Dread Waaagh! section a few months back aswell, so year 25k all painted, my only army to be FULLY painted Orkz are my love, then Admech.

The thing with the Intercessor/Cultist change is that we can assume the weapon profiles will change too. The regular Bolt Rifle can be 3 pts while the Cultists' weapons stay at 0. Please don't spread panic based on next to no information :p

Although it seems that the point costs in Engine War are already irrelevant. So yes, for the min-maxers it would be wiser to magnetise or wait until you build your boxes !

I would assume you at least 1CP per battle round, and maybe even 1CP per turn, with those base CP values. So probably looking at more like 18-24 for a 2k game, not the 12 listed.


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 Aaranis wrote:
The thing with the Intercessor/Cultist change is that we can assume the weapon profiles will change too. The regular Bolt Rifle can be 3 pts while the Cultists' weapons stay at 0. Please don't spread panic based on next to no information :p

Although it seems that the point costs in Engine War are already irrelevant. So yes, for the min-maxers it would be wiser to magnetise or wait until you build your boxes !

I don't think anybody's spreading panic. Just pointing out that these represent large, significant changes to the game, not the minor update some people seemed to think 9th would be. So the argument that things aren't going to change much so there's no reason to wait to buy seems less valid than it was.

Makes me kind of glad I didnt preorder EW too tbh, with the pts section becoming invalidated and a possible FAQ to fix/clarify some parts of the book, id rather hold off on spending £19.99 just right now same with the new units.

Waiting til July/August is ok with me, I have no tournaments to go to anyway and neither will anyone else (unless your playing on TTS) with 9th starting and the globial pandemic.

Again final list construction for ninth cant be done but you can certainly predict that i want cavalry in my list youll still need ew for the stratrgems etc

Points changing isn't an indication of game mechanic changes. It simply means they want smaller games that don't last as long. The easiest way to do that is to put less models down on the table.

But yeah even I'm probably going to wait now. I've pre ordered the book, because we'll need it any way regardless of 9th. The fact that they're doing daily new 40k updates suggests it's not too far off. I reckon the rest of June will be Spider and Pariah early July. Then not long after 9th.

End of July is like 50 week days away they can't possibly string out a daily update of new 9th stuff over that many days even with their championship dragging skills lol

We know the rules are changing too. But my point (ha, ha) was that if they want smaller games, that's even more reason to hesitate to buy a bunch of new models. We are going to have to be cutting our lists down anyway, not adding to them - so it's going to be all the more necessary to be careful to make sure we really want to buy the new stuff, because it's not just replacing an equal amount of old stuff...we're also going to have to cut like 1/3 of what we've got already just to meet the new points costs.

8th was released about 45 days after it was announced. I would be really surprised if it's any longer this time. They have every reason to get it out as fast as they can, because there are tons of people like me who are not buying anything until they do.

Given that PA isnt rendered useless in 9th i could totally see them release 9th and then release the last PA book, or even have it happen simo.

Octovol wrote:
Points changing isn't an indication of game mechanic changes. It simply means they want smaller games that don't last as long. The easiest way to do that is to put less models down on the table.

But yeah even I'm probably going to wait now. I've pre ordered the book, because we'll need it any way regardless of 9th. The fact that they're doing daily new 40k updates suggests it's not too far off. I reckon the rest of June will be Spider and Pariah early July. Then not long after 9th.

End of July is like 50 week days away they can't possibly string out a daily update of new 9th stuff over that many days even with their championship dragging skills lol

They dragged out our Admech teases for quite awhile didnt they, like 8 or 9 articles haha last month alone. Of course that was because of the pandemic, im mainly making a jest that if they can do that for 1 faction in a book they can do it about every page in the rule book hahaha!

I am 95% sure 9th would already be out right now without the pandemic.

9th will release as soon as they have the new starter box ready to ship. That's the hold-up, the rules are clearly already finalized and ready to go, and printing up the books doesn't take long. But they won't want to release the rules alone before they're ready to release the boxed set that contains the rules plus the new models, because that would dampen the appetite for that set.

As I said earlier a source of mine was claiming preorders mid-July, for release by the end of the month. Looks legit to me. It probably would've launched in June like 8th.

There are a lot of Necrons and new marine units for them to tease yet lol

They don't need all the models available to start the edition, the same way that the Sisters Codex dropped and it took 3+ months for the entire range to be released. In fact I would expect that at least a large portion of the new units won't come out until the Necron Codex does, and I would be super surprised if the Codex is released at the same time 9th is; has that ever happened before? Unless they're all coming in the last PA book.

They obviously do need all the models that come in the starter box with the rulebook, though.


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Reecius also just let it slip that there are significant incentives against taking big units. Probably impacts ad mech the least of most people, but if you were about to buy the boxes to make a bunch of max-size units of raiders, for example, it seems like a pretty big warning.

Meh. Reecius' credibility is long since shot, he kept talking about how Stompas were going to be amazing early on in 8th.

At this point? We knew "hordes" were going to have downsides. They literally told us that day one, with the fact that Blast weapons get a benefit against them. It would be more worthwhile repeating anything he said if, say, it was a direct notation as to what constitutes a "horde".

You can watch the thing if you want the exact wording. It was the latest episode of signals from the frontline.

He was asked "what army is going to suffer most?" and (paraphrasing) said "it isn't about the army, it's about the archtype." He then specifically referenced an ork horde list with tons of boyz and grots and said that list is going to suffer because of the disincentives to run large units in 9th.

Make of it whatever you will. He may be totally wrong - but he's seen the rules, and we haven't. So if it were me, I sure wouldn't order a bunch of boxes planning to make them into max-size units until I can see the rules myself to see if he's right or not.

It's fortune teller style 'predictions'/'insight', man.

We already know that hordes are a thing that are going to hurt. Ork Boyz and Grots were specifically called out as things that will be good targets for blast weapons by GW during the streams they've done...because there's also some new morale shenanigans that will be in effect. They said that there's a specific number of models in a unit that makes them count as a horde. It would have more weight if he specifically called out numbers, but we haven't gotten anyone doing that yet.

Right now? I'd say go for those 6 model squads of cavalry. If that's what we're considering 'horde armies' now? Then it means any army with a min/max unit size of '10' is now a horde. Never have heard of Fire Warriors being 'hordes', nor Skitarii, nor anything like that.

You're welcome to dismiss it or make of it what you will. I just thought it was worth sharing with people, so they could make up their own minds.

I don't think ad mech is going to be particularly severely impacted, as I noted in my initial post. The only thing in the ad mech list you can take in legitimate horde sizes is priests I think, and people rarely do anyway. But those max size 9 man units of L6/7 raiders already looked a bit vulnerable to morale in 8th...

If only there were some potentially morale boosting item that the Raiders could take...

Right, which is why it is only "a bit."

 Aaranis wrote:
The thing with the Intercessor/Cultist change is that we can assume the weapon profiles will change too. The regular Bolt Rifle can be 3 pts while the Cultists' weapons stay at 0. Please don't spread panic based on next to no information :p

Although it seems that the point costs in Engine War are already irrelevant. So yes, for the min-maxers it would be wiser to magnetise or wait until you build your boxes !

Cultists went up by 50%.

To match that proportion, assuming Cultists' base wargear is free, Bolt Rifles (of any v ariety) would have to be 5.5 points each.

It's not a good sign-that is what they chose to get us excited. That is what they decided to tease. That the arguably best Troops choice for CSM (that's taken to be chaff and generate CP) went up 50%, while arguably the best troops choice in the game, and certainly a stellar pick for Marines went up less than 20%.

Yeah, it's a very weird choice of things to advertise, especially with them implying that big units are disfavored in the newer edition, not buffed. It's hard to see what could justify such a big price increase for cultists relative to intercessors - unless they really are doing something very weird and charging a TON for the weapon.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
The thing with the Intercessor/Cultist change is that we can assume the weapon profiles will change too. The regular Bolt Rifle can be 3 pts while the Cultists' weapons stay at 0. Please don't spread panic based on next to no information :p

Although it seems that the point costs in Engine War are already irrelevant. So yes, for the min-maxers it would be wiser to magnetise or wait until you build your boxes !

Cultists went up by 50%.

To match that proportion, assuming Cultists' base wargear is free, Bolt Rifles (of any v ariety) would have to be 5.5 points each.

It's not a good sign-that is what they chose to get us excited. That is what they decided to tease. That the arguably best Troops choice for CSM (that's taken to be chaff and generate CP) went up 50%, while arguably the best troops choice in the game, and certainly a stellar pick for Marines went up less than 20%.

Calm. Down. Arguing about raises in a relative scale is just dumb, as we don't know the entire context around those points increases and we've got nothing to compare it to. No, Intercessor is not a comparison for a Cultist - Guardsman is. For all we know it might an effect of purely small absolute starting points value on Cultists, since you can't balance precisely as you can't use fractions. They most likely rounded the percentage up and it will happen to most if not all small points value models.

Yes Gw could just be buffing SM again relative to everything else

 deffrekka wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/

Intercessors have gone up 3ppm and cultists by 1ppm?

Cultists 2ppm.

And as for weapons...For weapons to be non free it would have to be option. If model just has weapons it's 0 and wargear is included in cost. Shadowsword volcano cannon is 0 pts...


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 deffrekka wrote:
Makes me kind of glad I didnt preorder EW too tbh, with the pts section becoming invalidated and a possible FAQ to fix/clarify some parts of the book, id rather hold off on spending £19.99 just right now same with the new units.

Waiting til July/August is ok with me, I have no tournaments to go to anyway and neither will anyone else (unless your playing on TTS) with 9th starting and the globial pandemic.

So you don't need stratagems etc?


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yukishiro1 wrote:
I am 95% sure 9th would already be out right now without the pandemic.

9th will release as soon as they have the new starter box ready to ship. That's the hold-up, the rules are clearly already finalized and ready to go, and printing up the books doesn't take long. But they won't want to release the rules alone before they're ready to release the boxed set that contains the rules plus the new models, because that would dampen the appetite for that set.

I doubt. Pariah would have been june release. You expected them to release 9th ed BEFORE last PA? July was likely the release month always. They just REALLY rushed it putting 3 months releases to 1.


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yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, it's a very weird choice of things to advertise, especially with them implying that big units are disfavored in the newer edition, not buffed. It's hard to see what could justify such a big price increase for cultists relative to intercessors - unless they really are doing something very weird and charging a TON for the weapon.

Maybe you see why when you realize playtesters they use have during 8th ed made tournament rules that favour elites and discourages hordes...They have the style of game they want to play.