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2020/06/12 01:51:05
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
yukishiro1 wrote: Using the area behind the ruin, not the ruin, means giving up significant threat range; it also means giving up your maneuverability advantage to some extent, because the other good thing about ruins is that as infantry you can move through them, but other stuff can't. It's a big nerf compared to the current ITC rules for melee infantry, if it turns out to really work like it sounds, not like Suzuteo is theorizing. If it didn't make any difference, people would already use the areas behind ruins, but they don't. They use the ruin, because it gets them precious inches.
I do suspect that either way ITC will rule that those big L-shaped things don't have any footprint, so standing on the far side of the wall is not "within" the L but "behind" it. Which will cure most of the issues.
I sure hope that is the case because otherwise like you said that’s anywhere from 6-10 precious inches in movement that are going to be lost while trying to get in position and set up a charge. That’s pretty crippling for most units you want to charge with.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2020/06/12 04:22:14
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
It would make the game essentially unplayable for melee infantry if they didn't. That ground floor blocking LOS rule ITC has is absolutely essential to making melee infantry a viable choice in competitive games. Without it, we'd go back to deep-strike or transports being the only way to deliver melee infantry.
2020/06/12 08:44:01
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
yukishiro1 wrote: Using the area behind the ruin, not the ruin, means giving up significant threat range; it also means giving up your maneuverability advantage to some extent, because the other good thing about ruins is that as infantry you can move through them, but other stuff can't. It's a big nerf compared to the current ITC rules for melee infantry, if it turns out to really work like it sounds, not like Suzuteo is theorizing. If it didn't make any difference, people would already use the areas behind ruins, but they don't. They use the ruin, because it gets them precious inches.
I do suspect that either way ITC will rule that those big L-shaped things don't have any footprint, so standing on the far side of the wall is not "within" the L but "behind" it. Which will cure most of the issues.
One of the issues before is that upper floors didnt block LOS. So the reality on many tables was you were up against the L wall and couldn't be seen or you were just behind it and could be seen by any model on a hill. As you could be seen by a top floor window.
Meanwhile L without windows havn't changed they still block LoS.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yukishiro1 wrote: It would make the game essentially unplayable for melee infantry if they didn't. That ground floor blocking LOS rule ITC has is absolutely essential to making melee infantry a viable choice in competitive games. Without it, we'd go back to deep-strike or transports being the only way to deliver melee infantry.
Which are more viable than they were given EW has given a lot more options for us to to boost these options.
While blocking infantry like hoplites or screening vanguard can still benefit from cover and hard cover may be a solid benefit to vanguard
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/12 08:49:05
2020/06/12 11:19:08
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Hesselhof wrote: Can i use the new disintegrator stratagem for +1 to hit, if i only shoot with the belleros canon because the stuber are out of LOS?
As long as everything targets the same thing I don't see why not. But you won't be able to target something else with the stubbers and missiles and still retain the bonus on the Belleros. Arguable the Belleros is positioned to be extremely effective at clearing chaff from cover as it'll likely get the blast rule as well.
Disintigrators have the Skitarii keyword though so you can use the doctrina strat for +1 to hit with all weapons anyway
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/12 11:39:21
2020/06/12 15:31:34
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Does anyone know or have any suggestions for aftermarket Belleros kits or alternatives that could fit? I built all my Disintegrators with Ferrumite but with the recent terrain reveal, the Belleros might be more useful.
Canifex Quote: I love Rhinos. They are crunchy on the outside, and soft and chewy on the inside.
- 3300 painted
2020/06/12 16:19:04
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
shamroll wrote: Does anyone know or have any suggestions for aftermarket Belleros kits or alternatives that could fit? I built all my Disintegrators with Ferrumite but with the recent terrain reveal, the Belleros might be more useful.
Just slice it off and magnetized both of them lol.
Also, anyone notice the Archeopter NOT included in the list Flyers that get the Aircraft keyword in today's preview? Wtf is going on there?!
Skorpius' turret fits in there without any glue or magnets. The friction from the paint alone keeps the gun barrel on the turret for me. But if you already glued it you could find someone with a 3D printer and print this: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4115163 i havnt printed it myself but it looks fine. Missing the actual gun parts of course but that part is usually much easier to kitbash than the turret itself, especially when it has a dude in it normally
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/12 18:26:01
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/12 18:40:31
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
shamroll wrote: Does anyone know or have any suggestions for aftermarket Belleros kits or alternatives that could fit? I built all my Disintegrators with Ferrumite but with the recent terrain reveal, the Belleros might be more useful.
Did you glue the Ferrumite Cannons into place? Planning on running any Duneriders?
Because the Dunerider doesn't use any of the Disintegrator's cannon parts.
2020/06/13 16:12:45
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
New terrain rules arriving at just the right time for the Pteraxii, having finally gotten the kit in my hands and it's easy to say that hiding even just 5 of them in 8th edition would have been difficult. The wingspan on these guys is massive, fully 5" across from tip to tip.
2020/06/13 16:20:36
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Yeah, i just assembled a full squad of skystalkers and holy crap the wingspan.
I actually cannot put them base-to-base. That alone is making me wonder if i should be doing 2x5 instead of 1x10 squads.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/13 16:25:35
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: Yeah, i just assembled a full squad of skystalkers and holy crap the wingspan.
I actually cannot put them base-to-base. That alone is making me wonder if i should be doing 2x5 instead of 1x10 squads.
Been having the same thought, which is a shame as that's 2 missing phosphor torches/flechette rifles instead of 1, but wrangling a unit of 10 just seems unfeasibly difficult without just throwing caution to the wind and stringing them out all the time, regardless of terrain.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/13 16:26:23
2020/06/13 17:27:20
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: Yeah, i just assembled a full squad of skystalkers and holy crap the wingspan.
I actually cannot put them base-to-base. That alone is making me wonder if i should be doing 2x5 instead of 1x10 squads.
Been having the same thought, which is a shame as that's 2 missing phosphor torches/flechette rifles instead of 1, but wrangling a unit of 10 just seems unfeasibly difficult without just throwing caution to the wind and stringing them out all the time, regardless of terrain.
It is entertaining that some people were saying they could easily hide 10
2020/06/15 08:19:08
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Given fusilave, steryliser and rangers theres a lot of weaknesses built into the list - you will struggle vs any tank/SH list as you lack any real anti tank other than your one unit of breachers
2020/06/15 09:31:03
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Hesselhof wrote: So what would you change? Belleros to ferumite?
No you want some non los shooting
If it were me and i was building this style of list
I would swap the 5x breachers for 2x 3 breacher letting you drop a ranger unit entirely
Swap the rest of the rangers for vanguard you dont really have enough for consistant character sniping and vanguard are more flexible
Ditch the flyers fusilavs are fun the problem is while strong vs custodes or sm in big blops they do almost nothing vs cheap infantry or vehicles think that guard list, knight or even your own. 20pts of damage to guard or 1.5 mw to a knight doesnt really cut it
for antitank either dakkabots useing WoM strat, neutronagers or strato raptors (if you want flyers)
While im personally not a fan balistarii could take the place of one of the pteraxii squads as another alternative
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 10:06:00
2020/06/15 11:11:26
Subject: Re:Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Its damage output vs its cost is so low and theres going to be games where it does very little.
So best case its doing 5MW to a large squad 10+ (many list dont have them and with 9th changes increaseingly unlikely.)
So your really looking at 1.5 w to a vehicle or 2.5 to a 5 man squad. So imagine i fly over that unit of 6 aggressors - i kill half an aggressor then die what about a knight 1.5 then die. Guard 5 infantry then die. In shooting terms how many of those would you have to kill to make your pts back. I say then die, because chances are your out in the open near their army. Now maybe with the strat to remove auras a single flyer could work but the trade off is you lose your defence.
By comparison a stratoraptor doesn't have to go near the enemy, has a higher damage output vs most lists and even if you want you want to fly at the enemy can move block more easily as unlike the fusilav you don't have to fly over the enemy
Irs not that i think its terrible its just inefficient
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 12:21:46
2020/06/15 12:25:42
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
i think theyre all inefficient.
Ignoring the real life $$$ to get one being alarmingly close to its in-game cost, the gunboat variant hits on 4s unless it sacrifices Hard to Hit and has less dakka than ironstriders, the transport does nothing with its limit at 6, and like you said the bomb wont really do that much either.
The only bombing run in the game i actually feel is a threat is the Skystalker variant, because its dice is based on the user not the target, so its not screwed by the 3-5man squads everywhere problem
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2020/06/15 14:21:25
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Vineheart01 wrote: i think theyre all inefficient.
Ignoring the real life $$$ to get one being alarmingly close to its in-game cost, the gunboat variant hits on 4s unless it sacrifices Hard to Hit and has less dakka than ironstriders, the transport does nothing with its limit at 6, and like you said the bomb wont really do that much either.
The only bombing run in the game i actually feel is a threat is the Skystalker variant, because its dice is based on the user not the target, so its not screwed by the 3-5man squads everywhere problem
Shame we're not already in 9th isn't it. That Stratoraptor is likely to be just over 130pts after the zero cost HPB is accounted for (that's how Battlescribe has interpreted it as well) and apart from the obvious benefit of Ironstriders being squadable for strategm benefits is a pretty OK-ish flyer.
I agree on the Fusilave though, if you were including a bombing unit 5 Skystalkers although less tough have the same amount of wounds and a much better bombing ability for fewer points. Though moving over stuff is much more difficult with them. but at least if you can get them to do something they actual DO something. The Fusilave just seems a bit anaemic in its delivery, even if it is technically safer.
Transvector I can only assume these flyers were conceived by a marine designer where 5 models are worth it. Otherwise, I can't believe for a second they even glanced at our army list and thought "Yeah 5 of those dropping in would be tactically viable" lol
2020/06/15 15:02:18
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
Skorpius Disintegrator [6 PL, 111pts]: Belleros Energy Cannon, 3x Cognis Heavy Stubber
++ Total: [90 PL, 9CP, 1,489pts] ++
Is it playable ?
I think the list is perfectly fine against Deathguard, I would merge the 2 units of 5 into 1 unit of 10 Sterylizors and use them as a single drop squad to clear an area and take it, the extra phosphor torch will help. I actually really rate the Fusilave if im honest, I think its the best of the Archeopters. It adds quite a lot of anti infantry with its 4 (str5 with Mars) heavy stubbers that will only benefit more in 9th when it ignores heavy and its bombs cant be underrated. Taking out models that are either extremely hard to kill with negatives to hit or good invuns is crucial, which even though DG get a 5+++ itll bypass the higher toughness of the unit that makes str 4 weapons pretty ineffective. Having the other option instead of the chaff launcher means you can then get it in a prime location to shut off any defensive auras like the new 5++ invun aura from the noxious blightbringer.
You could want more AT in the list but the basis is fine, Id drop a Fusilave and a squad of Rangers for like and Onager with a Neutron laser or get a chunkier front line of breachers
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/15 19:57:20
How many kans can a killa kan kill if a killa kan can kill kans?
2020/06/15 22:09:15
Subject: Adeptus Mechanicus Tactica 3.0: Riding the Dunes
U02dah4 wrote: Problem is those points could change in ninth
I akways assumed the transvectors capacity was a mistake to be faq'd
It does seem a bit ridiculous. Increase a 6 to a 10 and all of a sudden that's an indispensable unit.
Although that new Dunerider strategem makes it virtually the best transport in the entire game.
a transport that cant transport what it needs to is not really a transport it is worthless at 10 its not mandatory by a long shot but atvleast it can serve its purpose and actually transport secutarii
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/15 23:07:55
Admech & Deathwatch
- 3300 painted 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
