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tneva82 wrote: Well got 7 25mm base around 1, 11 more for 2nd row and 3rd row would be there so if opponent is suicidical enough to cram as much stuff around it either he's pretty darn sure he can kill her before he strikes or he faces 30+ attacks easily
More like 10, and if opponent wants, will probably be about 5, and that's with small bases - orks have 32 mm bases.
The rule should be like 3" instead of 2".
Elbows wrote: Who said anything about overquoting? You're running your mouth about things you believe I said...so, prove it. Quit dodging.
Very well - you expected it, and decided not to buy it even before it was released. Quite tactically apt.
He specified guardsmen so I went for 25mm. And I literally put models on my table. Albeit didn't go for 3rd circle because I ran out of models and space but 18 models in 2 rows(that's btw not even maximum 32mm bases can fit here...).
So if opponent crams in suicidically like that it's 30+ attacks for 25mm base. 32mm not sure but more than 2 circles is maximum so should be pretty darn big anyway(the difference between 25mm and 32mm base in close combat isn't full rank. More like half a rank)
Yes most opponents don't do it like but he asked for maximum. I answer questions as asked.
drbored wrote: I think one thing that will help people determine what's happening with psychic awakening is *how long* each campaign will last?
Are they going to rapid-fire these out every month after they get started, or is there going to be like 4-6 months between books?
I'm predicting the latter, and I hope that that means there's more to come than howling banshees and incubi (and their leaders). Both Drukhari and Aeldari have a LOT of models that need to be updated, either from age or from resin.
Now, one thing I'm predicting is that Harlequins will get a little attention, maybe in the form of a new unit. They could use some troop variety (which I'd love, since it'd help them have variety in Kill Team too). But, we'll see. If all we get are the 4 kits, I'll be just a little disappointed.
Ah yeah, and the Night Lords keeping Ulthwe at bay as Chaos broke free of the Eye of Terror and started all this shenanigans is a pretty important lore point.
Expect to be kind of similar to The Gathering Storm books.
You'll get some new models witch each part, updated ongoing lore and several fluffy missions to play the battles of the lore. And if we are really lucky maybe some rules updates to some units beyond the few ones showcased.
He specified guardsmen so I went for 25mm. And I literally put models on my table. Albeit didn't go for 3rd circle because I ran out of models and space but 18 models in 2 rows(that's btw not even maximum 32mm bases can fit here...).
So if opponent crams in suicidically like that it's 30+ attacks for 25mm base. 32mm not sure but more than 2 circles is maximum so should be pretty darn big anyway(the difference between 25mm and 32mm base in close combat isn't full rank. More like half a rank)
Yes most opponents don't do it like but he asked for maximum. I answer questions as asked.
And I appreciate that answer.
Thank you - exalted!
Now, one thing I'm predicting is that Harlequins will get a little attention, maybe in the form of a new unit. They could use some troop variety (which I'd love, since it'd help them have variety in Kill Team too). But, we'll see. If all we get are the 4 kits, I'll be just a little disappointed.
Harlies gonna get mimes?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/23 19:30:55
I find the Banshees kinda... plain. I dunno I had to look at the old ones to really make a judgement but these are all exactly as you would expect, nothing beyond that.
Kinda like releasing a new model of car after 5 years and having it be just an iteration with largely non-impactful bells and whistles from modern tech, bare minimum improvement.
I dunno am I being too harsh? I kinda wish they gave them a more substantial redesign in some way. Not a page-1 rewrite, but some kind of shake-up. They are pretty good overall but I'm not excited, it didn't trigger my 'want to paint' reflex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/23 19:52:37
MajorTom11 wrote: I find the Banshees kinda... plain. I dunno I had to look at the old ones to really make a judgement but these are all exactly as you would expect, nothing beyond that.
Kinda like releasing a new model of car after 5 years and having it be just an iteration with largely non-impactful bells and whistles from modern tech, bare minimum improvement.
I dunno am I being too harsh? I kinda wish they gave them a more substantial redesign in some way. Not a page-1 rewrite, but some kind of shake-up.
I like the idea of a plastic update.
Why so completely remake what were some of the coolest old models they made?
If they changed too much then I wouldn't be interested, at all.
Some people had such a feeling about some of the new sisters models, a bit -
the aesthetic seemed to change, with plugs for power armor in the skin and so on, and some didn't like the idea...
Though those models were fine, and the old ones that they replaced were never my favorite (I don't own any),
the point here is, if these Banshees as a power armor port equivalent, I wouldn't like it either...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: I like the new JZ but really hoped this means all the Phoenix Lords are getting a plastic re-do.
Because Karandras!
No doubt, talk about whippy spiky flowy hair attachments!
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, new Jain's rule is basically identical to the mythical solitaire that kills 30 orks with the cloak of blades relic.
You just need to be playing against an opponent dumb enough to say "Huuuurrrrrrr guess I'll pile in mah orks and fight with all of them den! Get 'em lads!"
You just have to play the one mythical opponent who does not have just a 30-man guard screen spread out in front of his leafblower list that tables a normal 40k list in 2 turns so you only need to prevent melee for 1.
Its a cute thing to say she can do, but the number of times you'll get more than 1 or 2 extra attacks out of it (assuming her base attacks stay at 4) will be slim.
Kind of like how Harlequins Kisses used to penetrate tanks. They had a base strength of 4, rolled a D6 to pen. If you rolled a 6, you got to roll another D6, and if that D6 was a six...you get the idea. Most vehicles had about 20 armor, so on average you needed to roll 3 6s in a row to get through, at which point you automatically killed one random crewman with the Kiss.
Doesn't help when the banshee mask means she would attack prior to enemy pile ins anyway
I think that alternate attack is something that will be useful over all however. If she murders one thing then piles in to grab a new unit they will be much less inclined to pile in an swing no her since you could pop a fight again strat at the end of the phase and whirlwind them all to death haha.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/23 20:02:35
In the late 41st Millennium, Jain Zar hunted the Chaos Space Marine Talos Valcoran, the commander of the 1st Claw of the 10th Company of the Night Lords Traitor Legion, due to a vision by Eldar Seers who foresaw that a prophet of the VIII Legion would unify the Night Lords and lead them against the Ulthwé Eldar in the future, and in so doing kill enough of the Craftworld's population to push it beyond its ability to recover its losses. When Talos' warband of Night Lords laid waste to the Imperial colonists of the world of Tsagualsa in the Eastern Fringe, they were ambushed by Eldar of the Ulthwé Craftworld looking to again kill the Soul Hunter before he could become a threat to their race. In the ensuing battle, nearly every member of Talos' warband was slain and he himself became embroiled in a desperate single combat against the deadly Phoenix Lord who had led the Ulthwé Aspect Warriors. In the ensuing battle, Jain Zar took grievous injuries and Talos sacrificed himself by detonating a grenade, killing the Eldar Exarch and ending her hunt. However, given that Exarchs can be reborn in new bodies[6a] she is unlikely truly dead.
Plus I always wanted an excuse to collect night lords and chaos marine generally.
I did snag some old metal termies in mint shape a while back,
and got some plastic weapons arm options for them...
I always thought the most amusing part of that whole thing is that they misidentified the guy. The dude they actually needed to kill was Talos' successor who not coincidentally goes around dressed like Talos so that anyone from the past looking into the future that wants to kill him would go kill Talos instead. Which they did. Night Lords are such dicks.
Jain Zar is brilliant! As expected, a dynamic pose with a tremendous sense of movement, which the ribbons help accentuate. Can’t see how Eldar collectors would be disappointed.
Sadly I have to agree with some earlier posters about what the slow trickle of releases means for the Eldar. Banshees, Incubi, and the characters is probably going to be it.
tneva82 wrote: Yes most opponents don't do it like but he asked for maximum.
But that's a circle. When Jain charges, models won't be surrounding her. And people don't usually have units standing in moon-shaped formations.
So unless she has something similar to Flip-Belt to help, I am not sure about this rule. I guess I'd have to see how it plays on the table.
Maybe you missed it but the rule is not when Jain Zar charges only. It's when he's picked to fight. And last time I checked Jain Zar doesn't have rule enemy cannot charge her.
Indeed that's where that silly amount MIGHT actually happen. Opponent needs to get that model killed and tries to charge and kill her before she strikes but fails. In that case you are probably better off cramming maximum number of guys into the range to give best shot for killing her first.
Indeed that's where that silly amount MIGHT actually happen. Opponent needs to get that model killed and tries to charge and kill her before she strikes but fails. In that case you are probably better off cramming maximum number of guys into the range to give best shot for killing her first.
this is where autocannons might be preferable.
but when no other choice, 30 guardsmen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/23 21:32:48
MajorTom11 wrote: I find the Banshees kinda... plain. I dunno I had to look at the old ones to really make a judgement but these are all exactly as you would expect, nothing beyond that.
Kinda like releasing a new model of car after 5 years and having it be just an iteration with largely non-impactful bells and whistles from modern tech, bare minimum improvement.
I dunno am I being too harsh? I kinda wish they gave them a more substantial redesign in some way. Not a page-1 rewrite, but some kind of shake-up. They are pretty good overall but I'm not excited, it didn't trigger my 'want to paint' reflex.
I'm actually really glad that they didn't redesign them. These are Banshees, in plastic. So better material, but still close enough to the previous versions for the models to fit in together on the table.
Jain Zar is glorious. Yes, the hair is a little over-the-top, but it's a nice update that stays true to the original, which was a lovely model that was sadly limited by the 2D posing requirements of solid pewter.
jeff white wrote: this is where autocannons might be preferable.
but when no other choice, 30 guardsmen.
Yeah, I mean, just Fall Back. Unless Eldar player also somehow takes a hostage and then moves Jain around to proc more attacks... it all looks fairly complicated.
Dread Master wrote: Jain Zar is brilliant! As expected, a dynamic pose with a tremendous sense of movement, which the ribbons help accentuate..
Question then, as I generally have trouble with 'dynamic' models (I'm not a visual person). What direction is she moving?
I honestly can't tell if she's jumping away and slashing with the glaive in order to play 'keep away' with people trying to grab her boomerang*, or falling at them (in which case the ribbons and hair seem to be in the wrong place, and moving in the wrong direction).
Her loincloth suggests that she's moving in the direction of her belly, of it would be pressed against one leg or the other, not sliding back between both.
So, to me it looks like there are at least three or four directions of movement, where she's falling, moving laterally in the direction her belly button is pointed (why does her armor have a belly button?), slashing really hard to get the ribbons going in the opposite direction of her travel and her hair is... just doing its own thing, independent of her.
It isn't a terrible model (parts are very nice, belly button aside), but its got one of the typical 'GW Dynamic Poses!' that is amazingly vague and meaningless. You can see where the art director drew lines for the sculptor saying 'and these things should go this way and those things should point that way, but the end result is an odd anti-gravity moment of 'artfully' pointless dynamism.
*speaking of said boomrang, her grip looks like when she throws it, she throws it corner first, rather than blade first, which is...odd.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/23 22:05:10
I'll confess that I can't prove exactly how a Triskele is used/thrown (since they don't actually exist), but however it's meant to be used, I'm pretty sure it bears no resemblance to the manner in which the model is currently holding it.
Seems I’m in a minority who missed the memo that GW models are supposed to accurate scientific models and not bonkers pulp SF art made into sculptures, mind... ;-)
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Seems I’m in a minority who missed the memo that GW models are supposed to accurate scientific models and not bonkers pulp SF art made into sculptures, mind... ;-)
Nothing wrong, but the hair stand is going to be an issue.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I'll confess that I can't prove exactly how a Triskele is used/thrown (since they don't actually exist), but however it's meant to be used, I'm pretty sure it bears no resemblance to the manner in which the model is currently holding it.
I imagine it to be used similarly to a chakram (which do exist), though the grip of the model does not seem to be right for using it. That could be because the model’s pose seems to show it swiping the Blade of Destruction sideways.
I interpreted the pose to be Jain Zar leaping up, not falling down, due to the way the hair coils and the toe first position of the feet.
Uh, how about all of the space marines, which is almost half the armies in existence?
I don't consider space marines exclusivly a shooting army, they've always been intended to be capable in CQC
that is why two of the three doctrines apply to just dakka?
Most strength comes from these two due to beeing easily achievable states?
i mean we can all agree what marines should be, generalists, what marines are atm is however something completely diffrent.
Not only that, but you can't start in the Assault Doctrine either.
keep in mind I'm not saying Marines are intended as a melee army, but rather they're intended as a combined arms army that handles all elements therein.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: Uh, how about all of the space marines, which is almost half the armies in existence?
I don't consider space marines exclusivly a shooting army, they've always been intended to be capable in CQC
that is why two of the three doctrines apply to just dakka?
Most strength comes from these two due to beeing easily achievable states?
i mean we can all agree what marines should be, generalists, what marines are atm is however something completely diffrent.
Not only that, but you can't start in the Assault Doctrine either.
keep in mind I'm not saying Marines are intended as a melee army, but rather they're intended as a combined arms army that handles all elements therein.
Can you please stop necroing inane marine chat while people are in the middle of talking about actual releases and news for PA?
It’s OK to talk about things other than Marines you know. The emperor does not exist and I promise he will not smite you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/23 22:50:42
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I'll confess that I can't prove exactly how a Triskele is used/thrown (since they don't actually exist), but however it's meant to be used, I'm pretty sure it bears no resemblance to the manner in which the model is currently holding it.
I imagine it to be used similarly to a chakram (which do exist), though the grip of the model does not seem to be right for using it. That could be because the model’s pose seems to show it swiping the Blade of Destruction sideways.
I interpreted the pose to be Jain Zar leaping up, not falling down, due to the way the hair coils and the toe first position of the feet.
From what I've raid Chakram were thrown horizontally in single combat and vertically in battle to avoid hitting your mate next to you. There's also the Javanese version which is a cross with shaped blades in the ends, which would be visually even closer to the Triskele.
TheFleshIsWeak wrote: I'll confess that I can't prove exactly how a Triskele is used/thrown (since they don't actually exist), but however it's meant to be used, I'm pretty sure it bears no resemblance to the manner in which the model is currently holding it.
I imagine it to be used similarly to a chakram (which do exist), though the grip of the model does not seem to be right for using it. That could be because the model’s pose seems to show it swiping the Blade of Destruction sideways.
I interpreted the pose to be Jain Zar leaping up, not falling down, due to the way the hair coils and the toe first position of the feet.
From what I've raid Chakram were thrown horizontally in single combat and vertically in battle to avoid hitting your mate next to you. There's also the Javanese version which is a cross with shaped blades in the ends, which would be visually even closer to the Triskele.
It's also fairly similar to a traditional tribal African weapon they had contestants make on Forged in Fire that had three different types of weapon edges(axe style blade, spear style, and a punch dagger) and was designed to be thrown. Can't remember the name, though.
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