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Because it's not new content, and it's been available as a free download since August.

 Jidmah wrote:
A Librarian would point out that GK need ten guys to cast half a smite

I wasn't talking about in-game, i was talking about lore. Lots of things in-game don't match the lore. Every terminator model being in "tactical dreadnought armor" is a good example of that.

deTox91 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

deTox91 wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

GaroRobe wrote:


"Echoes of Awakening" is evidently the last fluff section in Ritual of the Damned.
I'd be more hyped, expecting something related to the Lion (which is still could be), but the whole event is "Psychic Awakening" so it could also be nothing.

I'm hopeful, I don't think we'll get a miniature for him anytime soon, but if he shows up at the end of the book and does something awesome (like beat up Magnus), I think that would make this a really fun PA. He then disappears we get to wonder what he is up to until a later supplement. It moves the DA story forward and adds some new aspects into the DA story which has gotten a bit stale and predictable.

Or get beaten up by Magnus.
... But Ofc i know you space marines always expect the win as granted, that's how mama GW thought you


So other than that
33 pages DA
10 pages GK
10 pages TS

As expected

sure except examining the DA pages..

of those 33 pages
10 are the phobos stuff,
7 are updated datasheets for old units (stuff like the new hand weapon options for intercessors etc)
1 is the angels of death rule,
1 is the vanguard warlord traits
1 is the Obscuration Librarius Disipline


So once you get that out of the way it's 13 pages of new content, and of those 13 I think some of it is fluff.

I wish I got 7 pages of updated data sheets of old units, how's that's not new content, that literally would be more worth then the pages TS are getting right now

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/warhammer_40000_space_marines_summer_update_en.pdf - because it's already avaliable. for free. this is just GW covering it's bases for the garage players who never look at the FAQs etc

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because it's not new content, and it's been available as a free download since August.

No, some of those 17 datasheets are new updates.

Lazarus is one of them.
Asmodai another.

I don't see those in your link?

Regardless - there's no need for the "Marines get more/no they don't" argument again - for one it's explicitly banned, for two it's so blindingly obvious it doesn't warrant discussion and for three all of these factions are technically "Marines" anyway

But but but I was told that the new primaris release didn't do anything for SW/BA/DA just like the new Chaos releases didn't do anything at all for TS and DG right? Right?!?!


Sorry about the bitterness but these are still new rules that your getting that nobodies else got, just delayed publication, I'd love to get these 7 pages.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because it's not new content, and it's been available as a free download since August.

No, some of those 17 datasheets are new updates.

Lazarus is one of them.
Asmodai another.

I don't see those in your link?

Regardless - there's no need for the "Marines get more/no they don't" argument again - for one it's explicitly banned, for two it's so blindingly obvious it doesn't warrant discussion and for three all of these factions are technically "Marines" anyway

I specificly counted Lazarus as new.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deTox91 wrote:
But but but I was told that the new primaris release didn't do anything for SW/BA/DA just like the new Chaos releases didn't do anything at all for TS and DG right? Right?!?!

whomever told you that was wrong, wasn't anyone here, everyone knew that the phobos stuff was avalaible for EVERYONE as early as shadowspear.

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
For psychic prowess it goes:

GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < Chief Librarian Tigurius < Grand Master Voldus.

From the fluff I've read, it' something like

GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < whoever the hell are those named guys? Nobody care < < < < ALPHA-LEVEL PSYKERS!!!111

Though the fluff about the alpha psykers has always been shaky. I mean, the idea of (usually not very mentally stable) people that have exterminatus-level powers in their head, but that barely controls them, and that put themselves and their entire world at huge danger just by existing is very suiting to the setting… but then comes the part where you compare them to other “powerful psykers” in the setting, and alpha psykers make them look pitiful, which just doesn't seem right. And upping those other powerful psykers to alpha level doesn't work because then all the fighty non-psyker strong guys (say, the Avatar of Khaine) becomes pitiful in comparison…

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
For psychic prowess it goes:

GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < Chief Librarian Tigurius < Grand Master Voldus.

From the fluff I've read, it' something like

GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < whoever the hell are those named guys? Nobody care < < < < ALPHA-LEVEL PSYKERS!!!111

Though the fluff about the alpha psykers has always been shaky. I mean, the idea of (usually not very mentally stable) people that have exterminatus-level powers in their head, but that barely controls them, and that put themselves and their entire world at huge danger just by existing is very suiting to the setting… but then comes the part where you compare them to other “powerful psykers” in the setting, and alpha psykers make them look pitiful, which just doesn't seem right. And upping those other powerful psykers to alpha level doesn't work because then all the fighty non-psyker strong guys (say, the Avatar of Khaine) becomes pitiful in comparison…

Seems perfectly fine to me. I always liked how some poor random nobody could be more powerful than the vaunted Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. Sure they inevitably end up as a fleshy living doorway to hell, but you pays your money you takes your chances.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Waking Dreamer wrote:
For psychic prowess it goes:

GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < Chief Librarian Tigurius < Grand Master Voldus.

From the fluff I've read, it' something like

GK Justicar < SM Librarian < GK Librarian < whoever the hell are those named guys? Nobody care < < < < ALPHA-LEVEL PSYKERS!!!111

Though the fluff about the alpha psykers has always been shaky. I mean, the idea of (usually not very mentally stable) people that have exterminatus-level powers in their head, but that barely controls them, and that put themselves and their entire world at huge danger just by existing is very suiting to the setting… but then comes the part where you compare them to other “powerful psykers” in the setting, and alpha psykers make them look pitiful, which just doesn't seem right. And upping those other powerful psykers to alpha level doesn't work because then all the fighty non-psyker strong guys (say, the Avatar of Khaine) becomes pitiful in comparison…

Seems perfectly fine to me. I always liked how some poor random nobody could be more powerful than the vaunted Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. Sure they inevitably end up as a fleshy living doorway to hell, but you pays your money you takes your chances.

Fleshy Living Doorway to Hell would make a killer band name.

Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.

Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.

 Brometheus wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
ACK bring on the review vids!

Even if it's just what they've previewed GKs are in a massively better place than they were, and any GK players who are complaining obviously haven't been playing too long. We've got spells, stratagems and relic to be announced.

Oh I'm super happy with what we've seen for Thousand Sons! It's already boosts

It's a shame because i'm sure they won't be pushovers in the book, but on the table top Grey Knights are just going to dominate Thousand Sons. Maybe they'll be good limited to a single detachment in a more competitive chaos force, but they deserved better.

Is the general consensus that Dark Angels got the shaft? On one of the click-bait-shall-not-be-named podcasts they were talking about how great this and that was but all i kept thinking was "they ain't no Iron Hands, or Ultramarines for that matter".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.

Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.

To be fair i highly doubt Grey Knights will be getting access to any of the new SM units, and Thousand Sons are supposed to be the "other side of the coin".

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Because it's not new content, and it's been available as a free download since August.

No, some of those 17 datasheets are new updates.

Lazarus is one of them.
Asmodai another.

I don't see those in your link?

Regardless - there's no need for the "Marines get more/no they don't" argument again - for one it's explicitly banned, for two it's so blindingly obvious it doesn't warrant discussion and for three all of these factions are technically "Marines" anyway

You do realize Asmodai is only in there because he now gets access to Litanies, right....like every other Chaplain? It's not like he is getting anything new or an update. Stop being disingenuous.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.

Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.

You're overestimating the content, by almost double. Rules content is about 6 pages, same with GK. Opening page is fluff blurb, random name generator is obviously dross.
TS rules are pretty much cults from page 79-83, and Strategems on page 84 and thats it.

GK rules start with the Chaplain reprint on 67 (which will largely be copy pasta) and run to page 72 with the litanies.

DA do have a lot more in theory, but most of it is just reprinting pages from Codex Space Marines again. (And we'll see it all yet again for Wolfy Wolves, and probably a fair bit for the Watchy Watch)
Abilities on page 34 is relevant. Master Lazarus on 36 is new, Asmodai is presumbly an update (41). Strats from 51-53 are new. Death and Raven warlord traits are ew (56), Relics and maybe special issue wargear (57-58). So 9 pages all told
Everything else is literally copypasta with some minor name changes, straight out of Codex: SM

This is $40 book of 86 pages with 24 pages of actual content (including the 3 missions), unless you really really like a handful of 2 page fluff vignettes
PA is probably the worst gak GW has ever produced. Eye of Terror was 17 years ago, and did a much better job at a campaign arc with useful content.

Well... they did kinda bring back The Key for TS in a way so that's nice and reminds me of EoT days.. Chosen of Ahriman were fun.. while it lasted.

deTox91 wrote:
But but but I was told that the new primaris release didn't do anything for SW/BA/DA just like the new Chaos releases didn't do anything at all for TS and DG right? Right?!?!


Sorry about the bitterness but these are still new rules that your getting that nobodies else got, just delayed publication, I'd love to get these 7 pages.

So you would be happy to get copy&paste of old rules you already had? As that's what those are. Hey here's idea. Photocopy 7 pages of datasheet from your codex and put those into pa. Hey presto same level of content.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.

Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.

VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

I'm really confused by the point values page given CA was just out...wtf takes precedent?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.

Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.

VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

yeah, I don't get why anyone would say they make sense for the 1K sons, the 1K sons aren't exactly known for deamon posession..

Can we not just have another 3 pages of people needlessly whining about the imbalance of content or marine bias gak again please.

Dudeface wrote:
Can we not just have another 3 pages of people needlessly whining about the imbalance of content or marine bias gak again please.

amen to that. the whining about the phobos stuff is just silly. we all knew it was going to happen.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.

But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?

BrianDavion wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ultimately an army with 10 new pages of content has a lot going for them.

Seriously? 10 whole pages. No redone Horror rules to make the various versions worthwhile? No Venomcrawler or Master of Possession profiles to add them to 1KSons? I guess that would have taken time away from the frickin' Dark Angels.

VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

yeah, I don't get why anyone would say they make sense for the 1K sons, the 1K sons aren't exactly known for deamon posession..

Then DG surely get access to them, as they are experts at daemon possession, right?

I'll believe it when I see it

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.

But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?

Venomcrawler are directly linked to MoP tho, fluff and rule wise.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
They already said 9 cults

9 Cults?! Over 5 pages?

Crikey that doesn't leave much in the way of relics, WL traits etc

A "cult" is merely 1 wl trait, one relic and one spell.
Basically us TS got the normal amount of content, split into 9.

I for one am glad this PA will soon be over so we can look to the future.

The Greater Good and (obviously) Saga of the Beast seem much more interesting to me. Can't wait to start hearing more details on them. At the moment I'm really interested to see what the Greater Good brings - particularly in terms of lore and plot. While Ritual of the Damned feels like a Saturday morning cartoon in terms of plot and themes, Greater Good already feels much more adult and intelligent.

Having none-SM perspectives (particularly Tau, IG and GSC aka human-ish in size and thoughts) vs SM/CSM should be done more often - GW can really labour about how truly terrifying I'd be to face these massive dudes in power armour that fire exploding bullets. Its also a smart way to introduce 'new' perspectives on existing factions.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
They already said 9 cults

9 Cults?! Over 5 pages?

Crikey that doesn't leave much in the way of relics, WL traits etc

A "cult" is merely 1 wl trait, one relic and one spell.
Basically us TS got the normal amount of content, split into 9.

GW seems to be doing that with armies that have some mild divisions but not eneugh to warrent entire special rules the new DA WL traits are 3 Raven Wing and 3 death wing, wou;dn't suprise me if the new relics likewise where themed around the wings

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Seems perfectly fine to me. I always liked how some poor random nobody could be more powerful than the vaunted Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines. Sure they inevitably end up as a fleshy living doorway to hell, but you pays your money you takes your chances.

Chief librarian of the Ultramarine, sure. That's just one of the few guy that get recruited by that specific chapter, there is no reason for him to be one of the most powerful psyker, quite the opposite.
But them being more powerful than the most powerful psykers of the eldars? And more powerful than the most powerful incarnation of the literal god of magic? That's weird.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.

But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?

Unfathomable GW logic that leaves us all with less ways to enjoy our hobby

 BoomWolf wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
They already said 9 cults

9 Cults?! Over 5 pages?

Crikey that doesn't leave much in the way of relics, WL traits etc

A "cult" is merely 1 wl trait, one relic and one spell.
Basically us TS got the normal amount of content, split into 9.

So wait, do TS get 9 WL traits, 9 relics and 9 new spells or 3 WL traits, 3 relics 3 new spells? E - if its the former they seem to have done pretty well out of PA.

Should be the former but the cults are detachment locked it seems so it really punishes people who went for brigades since then you can only really choose one.

Edit: Of course it's all welcome new stuff but obviously few things compare to the passive buffs the other two armies in the book get "for free"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
VC and MoP dont belong anywhere near TS I'm afraid. If the fluff would warrant them getting the models they would have.

MoP is arguable, but I guess the real reason they're not part of 1KSons is that there's a Master of Possession miniature and no Thousand Sons Master of Possession miniature. Same reason the Death Guard Codex has a "Chaos Lord" who gets none of the Death Guard special rules because there's no Death Guard Chaos Lord miniature, only a Chaos Lord miniature.

But why not the Venom Crawler? 1KSons have Forgefiends. They have Defilers. They have Heldrakes. They have Maulerfiends. What's so special about the Venom Crawler?

Venomcrawler is only available from the CSM Star Collecting! box which is branded for a different codex and contains a bunch of models TS can't use. Maybe if it ever gets a separate release and they run another series of campaign books they'll reprint the Venomcrawler datasheet over and over again in every damn book so DG and TS can get it.