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They're attempting that. He's the new graphic




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They've updated the KSer page with the rest of the monster boxes, more graphics and single buy figures. Way too much stuff to put into a single post but I've embedded a few thigs:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/664132760?ref=b71vgr&token=97543db1&fbclid=IwAR2PnHYwrd4casFOPVclbAydYyAVarz-aVMgi-eIL0nhqwZFATMObXku_0M

Conan picking zone


Mythic Battles Picking Zone


Legacy Box (adventure mode) contents


The single buy cost really makes the box sets a good deal in comparison. The monster box, that most the Mythic Battles singles are in, are 54 euro for like 20 things. Where if you were to buy 3 things from the singles bin you'd hit the same price. Also to note Monotlith has said only things that are on a single mold are purchasable this way.

So this launches Monday. A few changes have happened:

-- Legacy Box is 10 Euro cheaper

-- The Legacy Upgrade Kit use to have exclusive adventure mode tiles, now it just is the plasticless Legacy Box and the content the kit has in also in the box.

-- All BtM boxes, including Monsters, will have plasticless versions in the pledge manager.

I’m tempted to get a hellhound and/or Cerberus mini, but I suspect shipping would be an issue.

Now live

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/beyond-the-monolith-core-system-conan-universe/description

I wish they'd given it 2 weeks, as 7 days is just too short to my mind, even without stretch goals

I was expecting to be a little more tempted by a new Conan campaign, but the minis don't really wow me, the price seems high for Kickstarter, and the expansion itself feels like an afterthought.

I would have thought they'd cash in on their successful 2015 Conan campaign more, it would have brought people in who weren't interested in Beyond the Monolith (awful, awful name) and perhaps sold them on the concept. Instead they led with the Versus System and made it a harder sale on themselves. Don't begrudge them trying to sell this game if they believe in it, but I just don't see the logic behind what they're doing from a marketing/sales perspective.

I think I’m gonna go beyond monolith and use my conan minis in Pulp Alley or Dragon Rampant. This is a fething mess.

Yeah, this is quite a mess, but I am in for the Legacy. It seems I really do like the Conan miniatures.

frankelee wrote:
I was expecting to be a little more tempted by a new Conan campaign, but the minis don't really wow me, the price seems high for Kickstarter, and the expansion itself feels like an afterthought.

I would have thought they'd cash in on their successful 2015 Conan campaign more, it would have brought people in who weren't interested in Beyond the Monolith (awful, awful name) and perhaps sold them on the concept. Instead they led with the Versus System and made it a harder sale on themselves. Don't begrudge them trying to sell this game if they believe in it, but I just don't see the logic behind what they're doing from a marketing/sales perspective.

The Adventure mode stuff in the new Book and Legacy box isn't an afterthought so much as one employee pushing to keep that mode alive as he knows there's fans of it (including himself). Though, to be honest, maybe it would have been better to do two different campaigns. One for the PVP and one for the Adventure mode stuff. Would have been less confusing.

I'm guessing the reason they're going this route instead of doing a reprint or expansions to the original KSer is they know how well, or non-well, the core game has sold in retail as there are still lots of boxes from the original run 5 years ago out there for purchase at a great price (that's why it's not for sale in the campaign as you can get a better deal from amazon then monolith on it). They probably don't think there's a big demand for the original game but at the same time it's well known for being limited in what you can play unless you have all the OOP KSer stuff from the kings pledge as 90% of the additional scenarios for the game require it or the expansions which are also OOP. So there's not a huge incentive to buy the game as you are limited in play with the retail edition. Though so far the largest group of backers are for Adventure mode and then the 1 euro pledge. The PVP has the least but I think most of the 1 euro are people just wanting to see what's in the PM or pick up the core 25 euro set and then some of the mini-less boxes as for some stubborn reason Monolith won't tell people to add that amount to their pledge now to fund.

I don't see how the 700k can be reached that's roughly 7000 backers which is quite a lot. Batman season two did 1.3 million with 9k backers but that has the Batman brand to pull it along and only a 500k funding goal. Conan isn't anywhere near as popular. I would love to be wrong though.


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 Sacredroach wrote:
Yeah, this is quite a mess, but I am in for the Legacy. It seems I really do like the Conan miniatures.

They're quite fun to paint.

I'm in for legacy but I might get more as I plan on doing another run or two of the 2d20 RPG and you really need lots of minis for that.

They're gonna sell the orginal Conan game for 30€

Q: How much will the Conan: the Boardgame (2015 edition) be in the Pledge manager?
A: The version available during the pledge manager is what has previously sold through retail channels, however during the Pledge Manager it would be available for €30 - a whole Conan game for 30€-

Rest of Adventure Pledge:



Shipping:

I was surprised to see how cheap they were selling the core game. Makes you wonder why they're not selling that in the KSer as a limited pledge for NA and Europe.

They stated that shipping right now is worst case scenario for costs and hopefully will go down as the negotiate.

This whole thing is a confusing and expensive clusterfeth of a mess - and on a 7-day schedule to boot. As someone who owns Conan, MB and Batman S1, I still have no idea what I'd actually want/need to purchase.
I mean, I'm not unintelligent. I could spend some time and try to figure it out. But you know what? I don't care enough to spend that time when I could be using it for something more productive and enjoyable. Like pretty much anything else.

All in all, this campaign is a fantastic solution and perfect antidote to the gamer-OCD-FOMO-collect'em-all mentality!

if you want the Skirmish game the Batman upgrade kit and then the paper only stuff for the factions you want.

If you want adventure mode then the Legacy Pledge.

There's lots of small things but the big confusing thing is the paperless, as they don't talk about the paperless stuff except in the FAQ, as for some reason they don't want those going towards their funding goal. I'm on the FB page one of their employees owns (it's a general conan one) and I know they've put a lot of effort into this but they still are just trying to do too much in one campaign I think.

The backers are split about equally now between the two modes but then you have another 30% or so that are in only for a Euro as they can't figure out it so clearly there's problems.

I will say it's raised way more then I thought it would in it's first 10 hours or so.


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Looked at the Kicktrack for batman season 2 which is the closest of their games to this and it did almost 800k in the first day.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/806316071/batman-gotham-city-chronicles-season-2/#chart-daily

Conan ended it's first day with less then half the backers (by about 500) and brought in less then 200k and is only trending to barley fund and those fist day trending numbers are way high for the final amount.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/806316071/beyond-the-monolith-core-system-conan-universe/

I am actually surprised that they have not made a series of bullet points instead of all the exciting language in the KS...they are trying to do essentially two things: More NEW Conan stuff...Legacy Pledge one and done. And then a VS mode for all of their properties.

I fear that their love of Conan and their rush for the VS system is the basic reason for the terrible design of the project. The only clear part is for returning Conan backers. For the new system, most of what is actually needed is just now available in the project...it will be in the pledge manager. I get that they want to avoid the KS fees for the printed material, but...damn.

Still, I'm in, fund or no fund.

But also, Dark Tower just launched...

Umm, why is Atlas from Mythic Battles Pantheon pretending to be a "Mutant" in the spoiler images above? XD

We see you Atlas! You're not fooling anyone!

EDIT: Wait a minute, LOADS of the characters are from Mythic Battles Pantheon! I see all sorts of re-used sculpts! Why would I pledge to buy "Conan" miniatures that I already own from their other game? O.o

I also am under the impression that you don’t get to build armies yourself, you just use what the scenario dictates like in the original Conan. Am I wrong?

the main thrust of this isn't (just) for conan, but for a 2 player skirmish type game (based on the mode they developed for batman)

it's launching mainly using conan as an example but will (if successful) expand to include a lot of other stuff of theirs and other companies including Mythic Battles,

you will be able to pick up 'paper only' versions of the things in the pledge manager so you won't have to re-buy the stuff you own (but for some reason they're not putting these up on the KS itself)

Boy this doesn't look good. Apparently Fred, who owns Monolith, said in December that if this doesn't fund he's shutting down after delivering existing KSers.

If it reaches a million then he'll make the next mythic battles game. Sounds like he's tired of not making money off of projects and wants to be able to break free of KSer to some degree which is why this has such a high funding goal -- extra money to do that.

Seams like if this was the KSer to be the farm on they would have done a better job even explaining the game system but they didn't. In fact I wonder if this is a self sabotage to just close shop.

Link to the post in french
https://the-overlord.com/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F3236-beyond-the-monolith%2Fpage%2F50%2F&tab=comments&fbclid=IwAR2GiKgM2CNf7Abs18JXfR2HwUIqaLtoYf5jt2KCEGLI_0FnBXkxamteG5c#comment-84099

Just saw this posted in the comments there....

Gringe CommanderSuperbacker
29 minutes ago
All-In would cost 299-375, depending on discount level. That gives you 282 minis, but only 35 new ones if you own an all-in 2015 conan and MBP.

So i got 237 minis I already own. Hmm!?! If only there would be someplace to turn them back into money .... some mystical place where people auction their money for my stuff......

Oh yes i need the legacy update and tome of skelos as well

Aside from the fact that I can't be arsed trying to eBay models, that's not an exciting value proposition. I also have Zombicide PM due next week, and Vic's bushfire APCs to buy (aside from direct donations), and Sisters finally approaching. So.. not enticing at all. Even though I do like their models.

That sounds depressing

(and worrying for the last KS or two in the line, as a business looking to close is never as on the ball as one that's running normally, and if things go wrong investing more in a dead business isn't going to happen)

Both mbp 1.5 and batman 2 are done manufacturing and on the way to hubs so Monolith is almost completely out of the picture for them to finish.

Agreed, Orlando. As a KS backer, those sorts of comments are also a fething big red flag when I'm looking at where to put my disposable income. I've lost enough money on KS at this point and had enough well meaning companies not fully deliver on their promised goods...

Reading the comments again, and this could be inaccurate as I don't speak french and trusting google, it really seams Fred is burnt out and upset people don't like the Vs mode he designed over some of the other game systems. So it's kind of this is what I want to make, if people don't like it then why should I stay in business -- which is fair.

People are starting to talk about Mythic buying rights back for Mythic Battles and maybe other games but they just did layoffs and who knows if they have the money to do that.


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Even worse. An earlier post talks about how Fred will be financially ruined if this doesn't succeed as MBP 1.5 was so miss managed that the other partners want to leave so this is all on his dime.

https://the-overlord.com/index.php?/topic/3236-beyond-the-monolith/&do=findComment&comment=84026

It"s sad to see the situation on quite a few levels. But then again I don't (can't/won't) take responsibility for supporting other people through their poor business choices. ☹

Oh, I agree. I don't think anyone should back unless they want what's offered and trust it will be completed.

Fred posted this on Facebook (this is the translation)

Well...
The start is more sluggish than I imagined.
Obviously I was wrong. I believe very strong in the concept "beyond the monolith" but I couldn't explain it. Or worse, probably i explained it wrong. I may have talked too soon about "second life". I probably should not have set up a discount system that, it is not understood, is not understood.
The presence of doubles is obviously also much more difficult than I imagined. I have greatly under estimated the psychological weight of these.
It is also possible that the presence of a realistic threshold was a mistake. A big one. It gives the feeling of a walk too hard to pass. I've really wanted to play the transparency card in recent years explaining what's going on behind the stage. By getting involved in the public debate, even leaving feathers. How prices were composed. Where were the real costs. Why we made such a choice, sometimes (often) difficult, until " why such a threshold ".... basically I participated, on my small scale, to " disenchant " the world of ks, when in the end I would have without Doubt had to sell more dream.

So now what do we do?

On the side of monolith we will try to focus on the game itself. Explain it. Publish a draft of your rules asap. First in French, then translated into English. Let's try to talk about gameplay, its evolution towards Batman vs, its scenarios, but also the more global concept (our partnerships, with cmon and Petersen games, at first). We will try to fight on the field of the game itself. And I hope it will have a positive effect on the gauge.
On the side of the pledgers, and if you're interested in the game, monolith will need your support for this campaign to pass. I didn't think I'd write this one day, but it might be the first "real" Kickstarter of monolith...

It's really dumbfounding that this would go the way of other good game design companies where you have a creative in charge that doesn't understand all the business side of things as I can't think of any other reason (as He's stated many times money isn't the cause for timing) that they rushed the KSer out without rules, with out a demo video and refusing the listen to people talking about how confusing it was. I don't add the people upset with the offerings as at the end of the day make the game you want and people will back if they agree. But at least try and sell it.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Both mbp 1.5 and batman 2 are done manufacturing and on the way to hubs so Monolith is almost completely out of the picture for them to finish.

ah, I knew Batman 2 was on the way, but I hadn't twigged that Mbp 1.5 was the only other one outstanding and it was also moving

I guess part of the reason this is so important is it's not IP dependant, as Batman is certainly not going to stick around forever without another big royalty payment, and Conan is in the same place but probably with a longer shelf life and smaller cheque.

if the vs mode does take off there are plenty of other big minis heavy boardgames to pull in

 Azazelx wrote:
Agreed, Orlando. As a KS backer, those sorts of comments are also a fething big red flag when I'm looking at where to put my disposable income. I've lost enough money on KS at this point and had enough well meaning companies not fully deliver on their promised goods...

What he said is that if this KS doesn't fund, he would close business because they have made some profit and he could close monolith without any debt, and that the goal of the KS is so high because he doesn't want to be tempted to start the project with not enough fund to finish it.
To me it sounds rather comforting about their ability to deliver what's promised.

If zombicide was already available I may have backed as I have black plague and green horde. But I don't have conan adventure game so I'm not very enticed to pledge right now (though getting for 30$ in the pledge manger sounds tempting).

FH keeps saying how he's transparent, but he failed to tell customers that he's interested in supporting VS mode, not Adventure mode. His next mistake was not researching if anyone wanted VS mode in the first place.

And I don't think there's demand for another skirmish game. In fact, Pandasaurus ran a Conan skirmish game KS -- twice -- and failed. Knight Models already has a DC skirmish game, and, iirc, switched to resin from metal because they were trying to lower the price of the models to generate more interest in the game.

On BGG, boardgamers keep buying dungeoncrawlers, but skirmish games seem to only be in pockets of popularity. Frex, Imperial Assault posts on BGG are mostly about the campaign mode, rather than skirmish play. If you look at the Batman Versus expansion forum on BGG, there aren't many posts there (although this may be because the game hasn't shipped yet?). X-wing is immensely popular, but I don't think it has much audience crossover with VS Conan or VS Batman. Certainly there was a fair amount of upset against Batman S2, although this may be due to ala carte prices if you wanted "all the mini's".

I guess what I find frustrating is that FH has the skills to run a game company, but he makes the wrong business decisions.

Anyway, anyone have a link to more details about how MBP 1.5 was mismanaged? TIA!

Nostromodamus wrote:I also am under the impression that you don’t get to build armies yourself, you just use what the scenario dictates like in the original Conan. Am I wrong?

No, from what I've gathered you build your armies then choose the scenario (which are tied to maps).

ced1106 wrote:FH keeps saying how he's transparent, but he failed to tell customers that he's interested in supporting VS mode, not Adventure mode. His next mistake was not researching if anyone wanted VS mode in the first place.

And I don't think there's demand for another skirmish game. In fact, Pandasaurus ran a Conan skirmish game KS -- twice -- and failed. Knight Models already has a DC skirmish game, and, iirc, switched to resin from metal because they were trying to lower the price of the models to generate more interest in the game.

On BGG, boardgamers keep buying dungeoncrawlers, but skirmish games seem to only be in pockets of popularity. Frex, Imperial Assault posts on BGG are mostly about the campaign mode, rather than skirmish play. If you look at the Batman Versus expansion forum on BGG, there aren't many posts there (although this may be because the game hasn't shipped yet?). X-wing is immensely popular, but I don't think it has much audience crossover with VS Conan or VS Batman. Certainly there was a fair amount of upset against Batman S2, although this may be due to ala carte prices if you wanted "all the mini's".

I guess what I find frustrating is that FH has the skills to run a game company, but he makes the wrong business decisions.

Anyway, anyone have a link to more details about how MBP 1.5 was mismanaged? TIA!

The comment about MBP being mismanaged was from FH himself in the second link I posted. No other context was given but it could be a miss translation from google.

As for Vs mode vs Adventure mode. Since the other partners want out of Monolith so it's just FH running the show he wants to do Vs as that's his thing. Don't think he was as into Adventure Mode as the other founders as everyone that works for Monolith talks about how much Vs is his baby and what he really loves. So if you were him and your company was having these issues what would you do? Make the game mode you didn't care about or the one you wanted? Especially if you were trying to decide if you should keep the doors open or walk away as well? I personally would do something different but I'm not FH and I can see why he made the decision to make the game that would make you excited to keep the lights on.

So, I like the contents of two of the boxes for the minis:
1) Pirates & Buccaneers - priced at 45
2) Mercenaries - priced at 29

So I just need to pledge for 74 in order to get what I want, right?

I don't care about the Conan game.

yes. Take the 1 euro pledge and set it for 74.