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 lord marcus wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

This thread is for Warhammer the Old World, not the computer game Total War. Take the chatter about TTW3 to its own thread where it belongs.

question:

What about discussion relating to the fact that the two are closely linked. Namely the fact that most of the units shown for kislev in the trailer are things we have seen in concept art for W:TOW? and permutations of such relating to potential miniature releases for Cathay, for instance?

With respect this is also relevant from WC site

Regular readers of Warhammer Community will know that the Games Workshop creative studio is hard at work on Warhammer The Old World, a project that will see the return of the world-that-was to the tabletop, and their designs have fed directly into the development of Total War: Warhammer III.

Just give me plastic Chaos Dwarfs!!! If we're going that far east and Cathay is a possibility, you gotta give props to Hashut!!

I think the potential for gathering up some knowledge from Total warhammer 3 is viable though given they have said they're feeding stuff there.

I really hope for an Araby army, it was in warmaster and I always found it strange at the time that they never released a full army. There is plenty of awesome fantasy that comes from that part of the world so I hope something comes from it in the far future.

 lord marcus wrote:

 ingtaer wrote:

This thread is for Warhammer the Old World, not the computer game Total War. Take the chatter about TTW3 to its own thread where it belongs.

question:

What about discussion relating to the fact that the two are closely linked. Namely the fact that most of the units shown for kislev in the trailer are things we have seen in concept art for W:TOW? and permutations of such relating to potential miniature releases for Cathay, for instance?

Where it is relevant to both then that is okay, where it is just about TT3 then it is not.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Morgasm the Powerfull wrote:

I think the name refers to the whole World-That-Was, as in the AOS is the current world and this is the old one. It just sound better than The-World-We-Fools-Blew-Up-But-Ups-The-Games-Make-Moolah-So-Here-It-Is-Again.

It does not refer to "the whole World That Was".

"The World That Was" is the narrative reference within The Mortal Realms to the entirety of the old Warhammer setting. The Old World is a specific chunk of that setting, like how The New World contained Lustria and Naggaroth and was basically an analogue for the Americas.

So far we have seen nothing actually pointing towards leaving that setting of The Old World.

GW seem to use the term in situations that are not just referring to just The Old World part of the setting specifically, though.

This is what happens when you don’t name your fictional planets.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This is what happens when you don’t name your fictional planets.

I need to check but I think it does have a name - I know some of the planets in the solar system are named

Is not Mallus or something like that?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Is not Mallus or something like that?

Its called that in AOS but I can't find it in Warhammer :(

By Sigmar, this has my consent!

I think we all expected Kislev was coming and that it was likely to be heavily linked to the Kislev work that is ongoing for TOW - it was obvious as soon as Kislev concept art was the first thing to be released about TOW.

.....Cathay though. That's a whole different level, honestly can't believe they've done it. Never thought I'd see the day.

Also mono-god factions on release day, another race as pre-order DLC (Araby, Chaos Dwarves, Ogre Kingdom, Dogs of War?).

Today is a good day for fans of Warhammer Fantasy in general. Almost making up for all the crap that fans had to deal with during the AOS launch.

 insaniak wrote:


But going by the complaints that I saw online over the last few editions, the rules were by far a bigger contributor to the game's decline than the price of the models. If GW can put out AoS-quality models suitable for rank-and-file play, and can work up a ruleset that people want to play again, the price of the models will be no more a barrier than it is for AoS.

Between buying some dirt cheap high elves, and having tons of time due to lack of gaming/socializing, I've been digging back to 6th edition WFB, which I played a tiny bit back in the day. I gotta say, while I lvoe the look of the models, and the lore, and even the ease of painitng rank and file models, the more I look at rules or read battle reports, the more I remember why I never really loved WFB. Compared to Kings of War, its incredibly fiddly and tries to present itself as a game about combat resolution, when it's really about movement KOW at least abstracts out the combat aspects, and allows the charge/countercharge game to occur more seamlessly.

I’m really hoping the Cathay minis have a heavy dose of fantasy mixed with historical designs. If they look at least as blingy as the armor from that Matt Damon movie about The Great Wall, I’m in.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I’m really hoping the Cathay minis have a heavy dose of fantasy mixed with historical designs. If they look at least as blingy as the armor from that Matt Damon movie about The Great Wall, I’m in.

Same here.

 Yodhrin wrote:
As far as we know, the arrangement with the prior Total Warhammer games was the same as it always has been with licensed GW projects - they come up with concepts, they send them to GW for approval, changes, or denial, and they work with whatever that process allows them to work with.

I can say that GW would have been the driving force on the Kislev and Cathay designs, not the other way around.

GW doesn't let license holders define the stuff that GW invented. I know this first hand.

I think that Cathay stands a good chance of being part of The Old World, as they likely designed them along side the Kislev stuff for the new game, whenever GW/Specialist get around to releasing it. It allows them to back to Warhammer fantasy but from a different angle, expanding on things we don't know much about rather than just going back to Empire/High Elves/Dwarfs/Orcs.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
As far as we know, the arrangement with the prior Total Warhammer games was the same as it always has been with licensed GW projects - they come up with concepts, they send them to GW for approval, changes, or denial, and they work with whatever that process allows them to work with.

I can say that GW would have been the driving force on the Kislev and Cathay designs, not the other way around.

basically confirms GW have been the driving force in the design of Kislev/Cathay and have been working with CA to translate them into TWW3. Wouldn't be surprised if CA had some minor element of influence though, as discussions between the two developed, such as riffing off the GW designs and GW goes 'oh that's cool - we'll integrate that' but it seems very clear that GW are in the driving seat, as you'd expect from the IP owner.

I mean it makes sense GW would go in that direction. I mean beyond a couple of Asian themed models in the 80's Cathay hasn't been really fleshed out. As a result if GW is making a new game they would want to work on stuff that has no equivalent that can be found on the secondary market.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I mean it makes sense GW would go in that direction. I mean beyond a couple of Asian themed models in the 80's Cathay hasn't been really fleshed out. As a result if GW is making a new game they would want to work on stuff that has no equivalent that can be found on the secondary market.

It’s also stuff no established Warhammer player has in their existing collection.

 Polonius wrote:

Between buying some dirt cheap high elves, and having tons of time due to lack of gaming/socializing, I've been digging back to 6th edition WFB, which I played a tiny bit back in the day. I gotta say, while I lvoe the look of the models, and the lore, and even the ease of painitng rank and file models, the more I look at rules or read battle reports, the more I remember why I never really loved WFB. Compared to Kings of War, its incredibly fiddly and tries to present itself as a game about combat resolution, when it's really about movement KOW at least abstracts out the combat aspects, and allows the charge/countercharge game to occur more seamlessly.

I enjoyed the hell out of 5th edition. Didn't like the changes to magic in 6th edition, and was fairly lazy about keeping up with the changes after that as a result. Still have my fifth ed lizardmen downstairs somewhere.

KoW just didn't appeal. Although admittedly that's mostly down to a single issue - not removing casualties. Not sure why that's such a sticking point, but it is a very large fly in the ointment for me.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Interesting regions on the map - Gunpowder Road, Warpstone desert - need to check if these are new

I have a Warhammer World map from the late-90s/early-00s on my wall (IIRC it came free in a WD around that time). The Great Bastion, the Warpstone Desert and the city of Nan-Gau are all on it. No Gunpowder Road though.

I take it that The Great Bastion is the Warhammer world's version of the Great Wall of China?

I'm super stoked to see if Cathay really turns up as a mini line.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I take it that The Great Bastion is the Warhammer world's version of the Great Wall of China?

Yeah pretty much.

The most detailed version of the map ever produced is this one afaik:

Yeah looking at that it's impossible not to include the Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms.

Of course, the Araby in its entirety is in WTT2, and they don't even have a single unit to represent them...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This is what happens when you don’t name your fictional planets.

I need to check but I think it does have a name - I know some of the planets in the solar system are named

There were some named planets in 'The Burning Shore' (Florin & Lorenzo novel) - Charyb, Deiamol, Lokratia, Obscuria, Tigris and Verdra.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I mean it makes sense GW would go in that direction. I mean beyond a couple of Asian themed models in the 80's Cathay hasn't been really fleshed out. As a result if GW is making a new game they would want to work on stuff that has no equivalent that can be found on the secondary market.

It’s also stuff no established Warhammer player has in their existing collection.

Then again, if they want to create new factions... well, they don't need Warhammer Fantasy back for that. That was pretty much the point of AoS after all. A new faction with new designs and new lore (there isn't exactly a great amount of material for Cathay as far as I'm aware) would be as much a draw in AoS as it is in W:TOW.
I'm also not 100% yet on how much to read into this on whether Cathay will in fact feature in W:TOW (doesn't geographically fit into the context of what we know so far, and if people thought a range revamp of X factions was unlikely before, making X+1 factions is obviously an even higher obstacle). It certainly increases the chances of seeing them "at some point" however.

As for Kislev, the trailer and new concepts certainly don't reveal too much that's new.

Ice Queen looks not unlike her previous model, now guarded by the ice-magic-weapon wielding bodyguard as we had become acquainted with before. The Tzarina herself seen only on foot, will presumably have a horse option - no idea whether her sleigh from Warmaster is making a return.
Some basic infantry with bows and swords (not bows and large axes that the old kossars had, though those might still exist - TW typically has various weapon variants).
Bear cavalry were already confirmed and expected, and they're basically Winged Lancers on a bear.
Actual Winged Lancers on actual horses. No magic weapons (lance tips look a bit odd with side barbs, but if those were models that's easily modified). No clearly painted horses, but that obviously would be irrelevant to miniatures. Helmets look a bit more Norse, which is more noticeable for the close-up of the heavily armoured infantryman fighting the bloodletters later.
Said infantry appears to have two variants; a two-handed mace and sword with a teardrop-shaped shield. Possibly Bokha/Kreml Guard, more likely something new (the aforementioned guard had berdiches/axes/halberds, and these might be more generic heavy infantry).
The Gryphon Legion (sketches) have the more traditional helmets, now may have double wings (which would be funny, as I modelled by 10mm Gryphon Legion as double-winged to make them stand out more), and their lances seem rather short and more exotic/magical than those of the winged lancers.
No signs of gunpowder units yet, which they did have in previous incarnations, but we'll see.

But will we get

the Giant Pygmies of Ind?

One thing to keep in mind is that there is a ~300+ year difference in time period between TWW3 and The Old World. I would expect there to be some stylistic changes between Cathay in the video game and Cathay on the tabletop, if an when those minis come around. I think its reasonable to expect Cathay in some form in The Old World, I doubt GW invested the time and resources into developing it without an intent to try to capitalize on it - the question is really more how they integrate them and what that means for the scope of the game. If we accept that TOW will be a Specialist/Forgeworld studio game ala Horus Heresy (best info available indicates this is the case), then I think its hard to realistically expect Cathay to show up for a few years after release unless GW really ramps up specialist support.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah looking at that it's impossible not to include the Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms.

...if only!

I would be so happy to have the Chaos Dwarfs return, and be able to...er...somewhat afford an army of them again!

If Cathay is for TOW as well as TW:W3, and assuming they have gunpowder and such, then wouldn't those TW:W3 units be out of place with the TOW setting due to the hundreds of years between them? I've read that the Empire and Dwarves gunpowder units wouldn't really fit too well because of when those were invented, but I can't really see the team designing both an earlier and a later period version of units, but designing presumably large parts of the army just for TW:W3 would also be a bit strange.

Cathay has had gunpowder weapons for thousands of years - they sold them to Lahmia when it was still a human kingdom.