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2021/09/14 15:42:30
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
After the initial shock for seeing and army for the first time and the total war models beeing very much three kingdoms inspired... I like it.
If theres a land of magic in warhammer fantasy is proper is cathay with their monkey beastmen and terracota armies and dragon emperor that summoned a demon-meteorite to kill all the ogres.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2021/09/14 15:48:19
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
They look pretty cool, I did giggle at the actual 1:1 earthbender though.
The only thing I wasn't too keen on were those giant golems, they moved too much like a normal person and had no sense of weight to them.
2021/09/14 16:31:50
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
I think GW is probably feeling quite apprehensive about the ROI for bringing back the Old World.
GW loves to be positioned as "inimitable" when it comes to sculpts and with AoS they looked to fuse both trademarked names with highly idiosyncratic/peculiar army designs in order to stake out some unequivocal "this territory is ours" design space.
However with the Old World they will have to return to a more "generic" or "open" fantasy theme and I think will have a hard time meeting some of their desired sales metrics.
For anything humanoid for example we will have a great deal more selection with creating armies out of perry miniatures, mantic, conquest, reaper, privateer press and so on. There is a lot of choice and opportunity to make amazing bespoke armies (that is good for us consumers). But from GWs perspective every Empire/Bretonnia/Chaos army on a tabletop that is not comprised exclusively of GW minis is a lost sales and diminished return on capital. They'll be whipping the poor GW shop employees to get out the microscopes an examine everyone's armies at Official Warhammer Events to make sure model heresy is not taking place on their watch!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 16:44:27
2021/09/14 16:44:50
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Gallahad wrote: My word, those look terrible. Generic east Asian fantasy right at home in World of Warcraft.
Absolutely nothing of the aesthetics of the Old World in my opinion.
Why does everything have to be so generic these days? It just seems like all artists are clones of each other.
Hope the AOS crowd enjoys this at least with flying ships and giant golems, etc. This army would easily be at home in Age of Sigmar.
Cathay has been a part of the setting for years and this is just how they were established as being. These aren't all some entirely new units that have suddenly taken the setting towards a different fantasy style. Here's what a Cathay warrior looked like before all this. Cathay having things like living terracota soldiers, magic warrior monks, monkeymen, giant magical dog statues, lightning unicorns and similar things was already part of the setting.
2021/09/14 16:52:39
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Why does everything have to be so generic these days? It just seems like all artists are clones of each other.
Unlike the originality of Bretonnia, the Empire, the vampire counts... chaos warriors?
I mean. I love my fantasy but... of course fantasy china looks like china just like fantasy france and fantasy holy roman empire look like those countries. Is perfectly fine to not like asian fantasy or their aesthetic mothivs, etc.... Their have their own thing, specially china, that is not as popular in western media as japan.
Also you have some respect for the Pandaren. Pandaria was a gorgeous continent and Pandaren and Mogu and Hozen and Jinyu have some of the best lore written for that universe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/14 16:55:29
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2021/09/14 16:53:39
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
I also have to say that since the first, Karl Franz trailer, this is probably my second favourite one. The shot of her jumping with the music, hmhmhmmh. *Cheff kiss*
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2021/09/14 17:13:08
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Gallahad wrote: My word, those look terrible. Generic east Asian fantasy right at home in World of Warcraft.
Absolutely nothing of the aesthetics of the Old World in my opinion.
Why does everything have to be so generic these days? It just seems like all artists are clones of each other.
Hope the AOS crowd enjoys this at least with flying ships and giant golems, etc. This army would easily be at home in Age of Sigmar.
Wouldn't be surprised to not see you reply as this is a post that looks just like those people that enjoy to contradict people and go away with no efford, but anyway.
Generic east asian? Because Brettonia, Empire, Vampire Counts, High Elves, Tomb Kings, Norsca and Lizardmen are not copypast from France, England, Germany, Egypt, Nordic/Celtic and Mayincatec archetypes/stereotypes, right? Right?
Calling WoW generic when arguably it spearheaded some of the most anti-stereotypical motfis and themes for mainstream media? like reedeming and entire race of evil orcs and making an entire faction of monsters not the actual bad guys of the game?
Also, Thunderbarge? What about Black Arcs? Sure, those don't fly, but they are mobile, floating cities in a boat, and you know what else floats, but in the air? a giant pyramid. Oh, and there are giants too, and BONE giants, which are not that different from golems, not to mention rock constructs pulled together by big Waaagh! energy.
Gregor Samsa wrote: I think GW is probably feeling quite apprehensive about the ROI for bringing back the Old World.
GW loves to be positioned as "inimitable" when it comes to sculpts and with AoS they looked to fuse both trademarked names with highly idiosyncratic/peculiar army designs in order to stake out some unequivocal "this territory is ours" design space.
However with the Old World they will have to return to a more "generic" or "open" fantasy theme and I think will have a hard time meeting some of their desired sales metrics.
For anything humanoid for example we will have a great deal more selection with creating armies out of perry miniatures, mantic, conquest, reaper, privateer press and so on. There is a lot of choice and opportunity to make amazing bespoke armies (that is good for us consumers). But from GWs perspective every Empire/Bretonnia/Chaos army on a tabletop that is not comprised exclusively of GW minis is a lost sales and diminished return on capital. They'll be whipping the poor GW shop employees to get out the microscopes an examine everyone's armies at Official Warhammer Events to make sure model heresy is not taking place on their watch!
Hasn't stopped them still making IG minis, and they still produce most of the Empire minis...
2021/09/14 17:19:18
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Waits with baited breath for when Imrik and Miao Ying meet
Great vid and nicely building on the scarce lore.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I like very much how they seem to be pulling from earlier versions of Warhammer for inspiration in designing new models for Cathay and the other new races we will see represented in WtOW. Like they've already confirmed the same is being done with the rules writing which gives me hope for this project being done right. If they lean mostly on 6th ed rules and give a way to scale down games so you don't have to paint 500 models for a decent size game, this will be successful I think. Never underestimate the power of nostalgia is what history has shown me.
ToW armies I own:
Empire: 10,000+
Chaos Legions: DoC- 10,000+; WoC- 7,500+; Beastmen- 2,500+; Chaos Dwarves- 3,500+
Unaligned: Ogres- 2,500; Tomb Kings- 3,000
Hotek: Dark Elves- 7,500+; High Elves- 2,500
40k armies I own:
CSM- 25,000+
2021/09/14 18:10:12
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2021/09/14 18:18:53
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
kodos wrote: Cathy is in Total War, nothing new here as this was already known
Nothing new here? They just gave the biggest reveal and mass information about Cathay that has ever been in Warhammer.
Well, we also have seen the biggest reveal and mass information about Vampires of the Pirates Coast that has ever been in Warhammer (with no real new units anyway as the concepts were already there before), but still for Total War: Warhammer, not Warhammer: The Old World.
lets talk again after we have seen some 28mm renders, Rules or Book Layouts
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/09/14 18:40:05
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
Sorry I forgot that "News and Rumours" is only meant for discussions of available products or ~20 page long discussions of how GW hiring someone for their law dept will destroy the HHHobby before I posted these apparent non-news *shrug*
~~~ I Love The Power Glove. It's So Bad. ~~~
2021/09/14 18:43:34
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
kodos wrote: Cathy is in Total War, nothing new here as this was already known
Nothing new here? They just gave the biggest reveal and mass information about Cathay that has ever been in Warhammer.
Well, we also have seen the biggest reveal and mass information about Vampires of the Pirates Coast that has ever been in Warhammer (with no real new units anyway as the concepts were already there before), but still for Total War: Warhammer, not Warhammer: The Old World.
lets talk again after we have seen some 28mm renders, Rules or Book Layouts
As specfically stated in the video and the Warhammer Community site - this is a joint development for both Total War AND Warhammer the Old World, therefore the new lore, images and concepts IS relevant to both.
This iteration of Grand Cathay is a Warhammer Studio creation through and through. Everything from preliminary concept sketches and special character design to how the army performs on the battlefield was established by the same teams working on the wider Warhammer settings. In fact, the Warhammer Studio went so far as to establish each and every unit for use on the tabletop, including stats and special abilities.** These numbers were then expertly translated and transposed by the technomancers at Creative Assembly, who deftly wove them into a rich campaign in this never-before-seen part of the Warhammer world
** Eighth edition rules, we understand.
Images are shown with BOTH logos
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/14 18:45:22
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Gallahad wrote: My word, those look terrible. Generic east Asian fantasy right at home in World of Warcraft.
Absolutely nothing of the aesthetics of the Old World in my opinion.
Why does everything have to be so generic these days? It just seems like all artists are clones of each other.
Hope the AOS crowd enjoys this at least with flying ships and giant golems, etc. This army would easily be at home in Age of Sigmar.
Wouldn't be surprised to not see you reply as this is a post that looks just like those people that enjoy to contradict people and go away with no efford, but anyway.
Generic east asian? Because Brettonia, Empire, Vampire Counts, High Elves, Tomb Kings, Norsca and Lizardmen are not copypast from France, England, Germany, Egypt, Nordic/Celtic and Mayincatec archetypes/stereotypes, right? Right?
Calling WoW generic when arguably it spearheaded some of the most anti-stereotypical motfis and themes for mainstream media? like reedeming and entire race of evil orcs and making an entire faction of monsters not the actual bad guys of the game?
Also, Thunderbarge? What about Black Arcs? Sure, those don't fly, but they are mobile, floating cities in a boat, and you know what else floats, but in the air? a giant pyramid. Oh, and there are giants too, and BONE giants, which are not that different from golems, not to mention rock constructs pulled together by big Waaagh! energy.
Whiners gone whine.
.
Thw Old World Aesthetic as I experienced it was gritty and realistic. Not super clean techno vibrant cities with flying boats. The color palette should be muted and there should be dirt and flies, etc. I'm totally ok with Cathay being inspired by historical east Asia with some light fantasy, but it should be grounded in reality. I would have thought the East Asia stuff would be Nippon, with Cathay being much more Indian/Arabic in influence but whatever.
Yes, WoW was genre defying when it came out 15+ years ago. Today nearly all fantasy properties ape the clean, sky is the limit, no real bad guys thing (they are just misunderstood! Humans are the real monsters!).
It is boring and generic because it has been done a thousand times now.
If you took these designs and told me "this is from a Chinese MMO by a small time studio" I would totally believe you.
Cite all the rare units or things that only appeared in the lore/artwork from WHFB that you want. You will never convince me that the game at its zenith in 6th edition wasn't about ranks of soldiers (of various races) killing each other with steel. Yes there were some high fantasy elements on the battlefield and I loved them. I like a little mustard on my sandwiches too. But you can't give me a bowl of mustard with bits of bread and cheese inside and tell me it is a sandwich.
2021/09/14 19:04:00
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
~4100
~1660
