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Cronch wrote:
Why? Why was Soul Wars ok to have full-sized rulebook and 52 models and stay available through the entire 2nd edition run but not this?

This is not soul war equilavent. The 3 starter sets that will come are. And those will be available.

Aos2 never had equilavent.

I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

Cronch wrote:
ok, and? I'm getting an inferior product as a customer if I don't manage to nab one of those low production run Special Limited Boxes...

Yes. GW has decided it's no longer going to leave a box like Indomitus or Dominion as a 'starter box' when in reality it was just a big 'discount box' for established players to buy a cheap army. Now a 'starter' like the more reasonably priced Recruit edition can do what it was meant to do and bring in players who were on the fence and didn't what to drop major money on a game they may not like.

The only thing that makes the ‘launch boxes’ different to starter sets is the lack of dice. Indomitus and Dominion should have just been the starter sets for the games, with one of the smaller ones to make a cheaper entry.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

Although I am not a fan of the newer starter sets they are still good deals moneywise(at least Recruit and Elite Edition). There is almost no reason to buy the normal boxes/the recruit edition is 32 pound compared to a single squad of necron warriors at 29) when you can instead buy the non-limited starter sets and just sell what you are not using. I think the only exception is the Command Edition as not everyone wants to buy ruins which are a part of the savings.

I do, however, miss the old style box sets like Dark Imperium and the 6th/7th edition sets. Those sets got you started in armies that you hadn't even considered starting. It is thanks to that set that I now have a huge painted Death Guard army.

tneva82 wrote:
B) gw has 3 starters(recruit, elite, command). This is and never was starter set,. You want starter set, you buy starter set. This doesn't even have stuff starter sets are. Are you willing to turn this 160e discount box to 250e starter set?

You wot? Starters were always cheap. See Dark Imperium, or in AoS case, Soul Wars. It contains similar contents to Dominion and it's 125€. Accounting for inflation and 10% less minis, it's equivalent today would be ~150€. Where you got that insane 250 from? On top on even more silly statement that discount boxes are cheaper than starters? It was always the other way around

 Kanluwen wrote:
That's something that I'll never understand.

Why would you let someone preorder something and not pay up front?!

Because in civilized countries, there is something called consumer protection and you have the right to cancel the transaction 14 days after purchase, especially if bought online, so it applied to 99% of Indomitus sales?

To be fair the Soul Wars starter was atrocious simply because it didn't provide you with whole units and expected you to buy the entire range of starters just to field a viable unit.

All in all I think the Soul Wars starter is perhaps one of the worst starters in the games(40k and AoS) because you got illegal number of models for a unit in the set.

Cronch wrote:
ok, and? I'm getting an inferior product as a customer if I don't manage to nab one of those low production run Special Limited Boxes when GW clearly could supply plenty of Soul Wars boxes. Why. I mean beyond corporate greed, because as far as I can see, there is no redeeming quality to this shift.

Yeah. Making these starter box limited in quantity is a really unfortunate turn of event

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

They are missing stuff starter sets always have.

They aren't starter　sets. They don't have all the stuff　starter sets have. Aos3 will have 3 starter sets. This is not one.

40k crowe showed last year serious lack of reading comprehension. Guess aos isn't any better

tneva82 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

They are missing stuff starter sets always have.

They aren't starter　sets. They don't have all the stuff　starter sets have. Aos3 will have 3 starter sets. This is not one.

40k crowe showed last year serious lack of reading comprehension. Guess aos isn't any better

Literally just dice.

 Irbis wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
B) gw has 3 starters(recruit, elite, command). This is and never was starter set,. You want starter set, you buy starter set. This doesn't even have stuff starter sets are. Are you willing to turn this 160e discount box to 250e starter set?

You wot? Starters were always cheap. See Dark Imperium, or in AoS case, Soul Wars. It contains similar contents to Dominion and it's 125€. Accounting for inflation and 10% less minis, it's equivalent today would be ~150€. Where you got that insane 250 from? On top on even more silly statement that discount boxes are cheaper than starters? It was always the other way around

[

Soul war had less value stuff in it and reduced discount. Models worth more and lower discount. You turn box with more models with bigger discount into lower discount AND add even more stuff what you expect but price increase? 160e now and lower the discount rate. Obviously price is going up

Soul war's equilavent is going to be command edition. Not this.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Cronch wrote:
ok, and? I'm getting an inferior product as a customer if I don't manage to nab one of those low production run Special Limited Boxes when GW clearly could supply plenty of Soul Wars boxes. Why. I mean beyond corporate greed, because as far as I can see, there is no redeeming quality to this shift.

Yeah. Making these starter box limited in quantity is a really unfortunate turn of event

Fomo marketing.

tneva82 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

They are missing stuff starter sets always have.

They aren't starter　sets. They don't have all the stuff　starter sets have. Aos3 will have 3 starter sets. This is not one.

40k crowe showed last year serious lack of reading comprehension. Guess aos isn't any better

For throwing out insults regarding reading comprehension you don't seem to have any idea what reality is:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-Command-Edition-EN-2020

Compare to:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/23/warhammer-40000-through-the-ages/

Note that the Command Edition actually bears MORE resemblance to pre-8th starters than Indomitus.

tneva82 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

They are missing stuff starter sets always have.

They aren't starter　sets. They don't have all the stuff　starter sets have. Aos3 will have 3 starter sets. This is not one.

40k crowe showed last year serious lack of reading comprehension. Guess aos isn't any better

The feth you talking about dude? Get down from your high horse and stop thinking yourself smarter than everybody else. Dark Imperium was literally the same thing than Indomitus minus dice. And they did keep it in production all of 8th , having smaller starter boxes at the same time.

If GW now has decided that the "starter" boxes of the editions are a limited run is just for pure profit. Is a change in their policy, is not something obvious we all are missing. And is an abismal change, BTW. This starter boxes are one of the last "good value" products GW stills has, and they becoming limited boxes suck ass.

Yeah, you can call it however you like, but the end result is the same as always: less for more.

These "launch boxes" are, effectively, meant to be a LE product. It combines the new core rules and one of each of the "starters" coming out later.

I'm not a fan of it, personally, but I think it really needs to be understood that the launch boxes are not there just for new players.

 Overread wrote:
That's one issue, GW's anti-scalper might stop the casual scalpers, which likely have been on the rise a lot (esp for GW). It will also limit most of their customers to a single box, which will naturally spread the stock out a lot more (at least when ordered direct from their own site).

However it might just free up stock for a professional scalper with their bot farm and such, to just swoop in and take even more. Of course GW might find other ways to stop them - eg at the point of delivery and shipping when they spot oddities such as dozens of orders going to the same address or all going to the same block of flats or such.

It's one thing to order 30 copies to the same address, but it would be rare for a whole block of flats or linked addresses or mail boxes to also order tens to hundreds of copies.


This might also explain why sometimes we see stock re-appear after its sold out, because GW have gone through the addresses and orders, spotted an oddity and cancelled the orders.

The real scalpers are the storefronts capable of ordering enough copies while also selling out to eBay.

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can call it however you like, but the end result is the same as always: less for more.

But it isn't; the current command edition bears a great deal of similarity to starters of the past. Indomitus is the box that is different with having way more miniatures, a full hardback rulebook, and no terrain.

If someone wants the same starter set GW has historically offered for Warhammer it is right there on the store in non-limited production. One can of course criticize the price/value, but the fact remains that in terms of product given Command Edition is in line with older editions bar 8th.

It isn't that the main starter has gone to limited, it is that we are getting an upsized launch box providing more than the normal starter ON TOP of what we normally got. And two smaller versions that are non-limited. Going back to what we used to have wouldn't mean Indomitus as non-limited, it would mean the Command Edition as the only offering and no Indomitus at all.

And to re-emphasize before I get inevitably called a GW shill anyways; go look at the previous starters and what they had, then compare to the current ones and see which is the most similar.

Fomo is a pretty useful lever for companies to pull, I just find it really obnoxious so I'm turned off rather than hyped by it.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can call it however you like, but the end result is the same as always: less for more.

But it isn't; the current command edition bears a great deal of similarity to starters of the past. Indomitus is the box that is different with having way more miniatures, a full hardback rulebook, and no terrain.

If someone wants the same starter set GW has historically offered for Warhammer it is right there on the store in non-limited production. One can of course criticize the price/value, but the fact remains that in terms of product given Command Edition is in line with older editions bar 8th.

It isn't that the main starter has gone to limited, it is that we are getting an upsized launch box providing more than the normal starter ON TOP of what we normally got. And two smaller versions that are non-limited. Going back to what we used to have wouldn't mean Indomitus as non-limited, it would mean the Command Edition as the only offering and no Indomitus at all.

And to re-emphasize before I get inevitably called a GW shill anyways; go look at the previous starters and what they had, then compare to the current ones and see which is the most similar.

As I said, you can call it however you want.

 Da Boss wrote:
Fomo is a pretty useful lever for companies to pull, I just find it really obnoxious so I'm turned off rather than hyped by it.

But...missing out on what?

It’s pretty much only a hefty discount. If someone only bought for the savings, rather than the contents? They need to have a serious word with themself.

Yeah, missing out on the savings. I buy things based on value, if it's cheaper and I like it I'm more likely to buy it than if it's overpriced and I like it, I think that's pretty normal.

That's what they're trying to play on, the mentality of missing out on a bargain. It's a pretty commonly used, and effective, method of marketing.

I think it's also a bit scummy, but it's not illegal or anything so they can work away.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can call it however you like, but the end result is the same as always: less for more.

But it isn't; the current command edition bears a great deal of similarity to starters of the past. Indomitus is the box that is different with having way more miniatures, a full hardback rulebook, and no terrain.

If someone wants the same starter set GW has historically offered for Warhammer it is right there on the store in non-limited production. One can of course criticize the price/value, but the fact remains that in terms of product given Command Edition is in line with older editions bar 8th.

It isn't that the main starter has gone to limited, it is that we are getting an upsized launch box providing more than the normal starter ON TOP of what we normally got. And two smaller versions that are non-limited. Going back to what we used to have wouldn't mean Indomitus as non-limited, it would mean the Command Edition as the only offering and no Indomitus at all.

And to re-emphasize before I get inevitably called a GW shill anyways; go look at the previous starters and what they had, then compare to the current ones and see which is the most similar.

I'm sorry but I disagree. Terrain in starter boxes was dropped for Assault on Black Reach for 40k in 5th and for Battle for Skull Past for Fantasy in 6th. Assault on Black Reach, Dark Vengeance for 6th and 7th, Dark Imperium for 8th, Battle for Skull Pass for 6th and 7th, Isle of Blood for 8th. Indomitus was just the same as older starter boxes that came with a good amount of options and units, with a couple of characters for each side. This new format of Starter (Command edition or whatever) is going back to 4th and older starter boxes that had less value, less variety and less models.

It probably feels less because of the extra terrain that is displacing figures. With how overpriced GW terrain tends to get the Command Edition is probably in GW's eye a huge bargain. Less so for us who have no interest in GW terrain.

To be honest I'd love to get actual figures instead of terrain.

 Galas wrote:

I'm sorry but I disagree. Terrain in starter boxes was dropped for Assault on Black Reach for 40k in 5th and for Battle for Skull Past for Fantasy in 6th. Assault on Black Reach, Dark Vengeance for 6th and 7th, Dark Imperium for 8th, Battle for Skull Pass for 6th and 7th, Isle of Blood for 8th. Indomitus was just the same as older starter boxes that came with a good amount of options and units, with a couple of characters for each side. This new format of Starter (Command edition or whatever) is going back to 4th and older starter boxes that had less value, less variety and less models.

You mean after AOBR+BFSP right?

Because both of those had scenery.


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 Eldarsif wrote:
It probably feels less because of the extra terrain that is displacing figures. With how overpriced GW terrain tends to get the Command Edition is probably in GW's eye a huge bargain. Less so for us who have no interest in GW terrain.

To be honest I'd love to get actual figures instead of terrain.

It's funny you say this because the Command Edition is, in GW's eyes, the "true" starter set intended for new players.

Scenery+gameboard+core book and two armies.

Assault on Black Reach didn't have terrain. Battle for Macragge did, though.

Rihgu wrote:
Assault on Black Reach didn't have terrain. Battle for Macragge did, though.

That's the one I was thinking of then!

Say what you will about Noun+Adverb setups...I'm able to remember those easier.

 Albertorius wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
Yeah, you can call it however you like, but the end result is the same as always: less for more.

But it isn't; the current command edition bears a great deal of similarity to starters of the past. Indomitus is the box that is different with having way more miniatures, a full hardback rulebook, and no terrain.

If someone wants the same starter set GW has historically offered for Warhammer it is right there on the store in non-limited production. One can of course criticize the price/value, but the fact remains that in terms of product given Command Edition is in line with older editions bar 8th.

It isn't that the main starter has gone to limited, it is that we are getting an upsized launch box providing more than the normal starter ON TOP of what we normally got. And two smaller versions that are non-limited. Going back to what we used to have wouldn't mean Indomitus as non-limited, it would mean the Command Edition as the only offering and no Indomitus at all.

And to re-emphasize before I get inevitably called a GW shill anyways; go look at the previous starters and what they had, then compare to the current ones and see which is the most similar.

As I said, you can call it however you want.

Calling reality something else does not affect it being real, so I suppose you are correct. It is a strange way of putting it though, especially since your sentiment of 'less for more' is non-sequitor since the comparison was never valid in the first place. It comes across like you don't understand what the starters are or have been.

 Eldarsif wrote:
It probably feels less because of the extra terrain that is displacing figures. With how overpriced GW terrain tends to get the Command Edition is probably in GW's eye a huge bargain. Less so for us who have no interest in GW terrain.

To be honest I'd love to get actual figures instead of terrain.

Agree. Most of my current armies started by buying one of those boxes and parting it with a friend. And just having smaller forces for running demos or playing with friends was also great. I'm sorry but the "pretty expensive" Command edition gives you... 1 marine captain, 5 intercessors and 3 bikes. That can't compare with a high elven prince on gryphon, one arch mague, 10 sea guards, 10 blademasters, and 5 horse archers. Or 1 chaos lord, 1 chaos aspiring champion, 20 cultists, 1 hellbrute, and 6 chosen.

tneva82 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think we are actually on the same page here; Indomitus/Dominion are starter sets regardless of what they are labeled as, and good sets at that.

The point of criticism is that the smaller, non-limited starters are NOT good sets and that sucks (not saying I agree/disagree, just pointing it out). There is just confusion as to what that criticism is being leveled at.

They are missing stuff starter sets always have.

They aren't starter　sets. They don't have all the stuff　starter sets have. Aos3 will have 3 starter sets. This is not one.

40k crowe showed last year serious lack of reading comprehension. Guess aos isn't any better

You can parrot GW's line all you want, they have the same kind of content (rulebook, two small armies) as every previous starter set going back to Warhammer 40k 3rd edition and WHFB 6th edition. Except now, after 25 years or so, GW decided they want more money, so they're going to sell fewer models with less of a discount in their new "starter" joke boxes as the real starter box is made limited edition FOMO bait. Dominion will have the same type of content as every previous AOS starter set, except it will be limited time only and will be replaced with pathetically overpriced "starters" in a month. Sorry, but from consumer point of view, this is a bad move, you'd have to be insane to defend it.