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2021/06/27 00:08:46
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Everything is the number one thing these days. Customers have rewarded hyperbolic advertising so long that it has naturally progressed to the end state where every product or release is 'the best evar!!!1'
Personally I think less of something when that or an analogous claim is made because it is both overused and doesn't mean anything. Compared to advertising points like 'heroes more heroic using hero actions, monsters more powerful with monster actions' which actually give me something of substance.
I mean, it works in politics too, so why not go all the way?
Could be worse. Wizards of the Coast had their amazing marketing blitz for 4th edition that not only was it the bestest thing ever, but also everything they'd ever done before was actually really rubbish.
They basically pre-emptively kicked off an edition war and told existing customers that they wouldn't like the new edition. [Which was at least honest, if not the best marketing idea]
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/06/27 03:24:26
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
Overread wrote: You say that but honestly I can't remember a time when marketing has never said "best ever".
They've done it for Dominion and Codex releases and Indomitus before it.
Gimgamgoo wrote: And the point was; A firm dealing with the mathematics of points values in a game worth millions of dollars doesn't know the difference between a factor and a multiple.
This is from the group that thinks that doing everything in multiples of 5 allows for greater granularity, so, are you surprised?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/27 03:25:30
Gimgamgoo wrote: And the point was; A firm dealing with the mathematics of points values in a game worth millions of dollars doesn't know the difference between a factor and a multiple.
This is from the group that thinks that doing everything in multiples of 5 allows for greater granularity, so, are you surprised?
Mistaking the word "factors" for "multiples" is probably something I'd do by mistake and I use mathematics on a daily basis for my job, so I don't blame them too much for that, but yeah, boasting about using multiples of 5 to increase granularity when they could literally just use multiples of 1 is just silly. Whether you think the game needs more granularity or not, that's just a silly thing to boast
2021/06/27 07:46:36
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
Well we all know if those new Slaanesh units were just 5 points cheaper they would be good to go; it isn't like the rest of the 50-point decrease they need renders increments of 5 utterly trivial. /s
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 07:46:50
Overread wrote: You say that but honestly I can't remember a time when marketing has never said "best ever".
They've done it for Dominion and Codex releases and Indomitus before it.
Gimgamgoo wrote: And the point was; A firm dealing with the mathematics of points values in a game worth millions of dollars doesn't know the difference between a factor and a multiple.
This is from the group that thinks that doing everything in multiples of 5 allows for greater granularity, so, are you surprised?
You say that but honestly I can't remember a time when marketing has never said "best ever".
Bolded for emphasis. Don't worry, I thought going with the double negative there was weird phrasing too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 08:07:13
2021/06/27 12:34:00
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
Honestly if the whole "best *whatever*" kind of marketing annoys you to the point you don't buy into it. I'm going to hazard its not the reason its just the excuse.
If you wanted that boxed set for the contents it actually has (which right now we've a very good idea of the actual content and the quality of the content from models to rules to lore to art) then you'd get it and you wouldn't care what the marketing team were saying. In fact beyond previews you'd likely not care what they are pushing it as.
If "best ever" puts you off then you were already not on the fence to start with.
Oh for sure it was a on the fence push over to the other side thing. The content vs price was probably enough to peek any mini gamers interest. The ad campaign, and subsequent disappointing rules leak were the deterrents.
2021/06/27 13:07:52
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
Eh they are GW rules, by now after many years I'm not expecting a balance wonder. I think that won't ever happen until they fully change their rules staff.
But I do know I can expect top rate plastic models, decent fantasy lore and outstanding artwork.
That said I'm not into either army (though if I were to collect an ork force it would be KruelBoyz right now - I do like their look!) so I'm only in this round for the rules.
Overread wrote: Eh they are GW rules, by now after many years I'm not expecting a balance wonder. I think that won't ever happen until they fully change their rules staff.
But I do know I can expect top rate plastic models, decent fantasy lore and outstanding artwork.
That said I'm not into either army (though if I were to collect an ork force it would be KruelBoyz right now - I do like their look!) so I'm only in this round for the rules.
Problem isn't rule staff. Problem is above them. Well the above guys make sure top level guys don't get hired but even if they would get one marching order would still be shiftring imbalance.
Imbalance sells. Balance doesn't.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/06/27 17:42:46
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
DaveC wrote: Dominion Day celebration preview confirmed for next Saturday at 5PM BST.
Any guesses as to what this preview is about?
I feel like there isnt anything left to preview for Dominion, but also not enough hype for a preview of post-Dominion releases.
We know that the Kruelboyz are getting a Sludgeraker (rumoured to look like an alligator) and winged beast (rumoured to be called a skyrippa and look like a bat with scorpion tail) these were confirmed in name only by a community article. Plus there are rumours of a cavalry briefly seen in the launch animation.
Stormcast are rumoured to get a new dragon type and possibly dragon cavalry plus we saw Vanquishers listed in the new army list on the learn to play video.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 18:01:15
2021/06/27 18:01:29
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
I’m only seeing it mentioned in the “next week” article.
Says it's a special Dominion Day preview.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 18:28:35
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2021/06/27 18:50:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
DaveC wrote: Dominion Day celebration preview confirmed for next Saturday at 5PM BST.
Any guesses as to what this preview is about?
I feel like there isnt anything left to preview for Dominion, but also not enough hype for a preview of post-Dominion releases.
We know that the Kruelboyz are getting a Sludgeraker (rumoured to look like an alligator) and winged beast (rumoured to be called a skyrippa and look like a bat with scorpion tail) these were confirmed in name only by a community article. Plus there are rumours of a cavalry briefly seen in the launch animation.
Stormcast are rumoured to get a new dragon type and possibly dragon cavalry plus we saw Vanquishers listed in the new army list on the learn to play video.
If they have new dragons that look anything like the stardrake I'm gonna run out of money.
2021/06/27 19:22:44
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
DaveC wrote: Dominion Day celebration preview confirmed for next Saturday at 5PM BST.
Any guesses as to what this preview is about?
I feel like there isnt anything left to preview for Dominion, but also not enough hype for a preview of post-Dominion releases.
We know that the Kruelboyz are getting a Sludgeraker (rumoured to look like an alligator) and winged beast (rumoured to be called a skyrippa and look like a bat with scorpion tail) these were confirmed in name only by a community article. Plus there are rumours of a cavalry briefly seen in the launch animation.
Stormcast are rumoured to get a new dragon type and possibly dragon cavalry plus we saw Vanquishers listed in the new army list on the learn to play video.
If they have new dragons that look anything like the stardrake I'm gonna run out of money.
I imagine it's gonna be longer and leaner, to fit with the slimmer stormcasts.
2021/06/27 20:26:10
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
We already know about the following kits, but they're likely to be shown again...
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2021/06/27 21:07:02
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Premature? How? They've done this many many times, and we know from the start of 9th that they get this wrong. Constantly.
There comes a time where 'wait and see' has to give way to pattern recognition.
When's the last time GW showed that they had a mathematical method for balance?
It's one thing to say "new boss same as the old one", but it's another thing entirely to completely ignore what changed.
the last time was first GHB when GW adopted the mathematical method for points from the Community
the other time was the DE Army book in 6th Edition which the screwed up because they had a calculation error in their formula (and we got the Errata to cut out and glue over the parts in the book)
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
2021/06/27 22:24:12
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Premature? How? They've done this many many times, and we know from the start of 9th that they get this wrong. Constantly.
There comes a time where 'wait and see' has to give way to pattern recognition.
When's the last time GW showed that they had a mathematical method for balance?
It's one thing to say "new boss same as the old one", but it's another thing entirely to completely ignore what changed.
They have been using one in AoS for some time now, and even did a review of it in one of the WD from last year.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghaz wrote: We already know about the following kits, but they're likely to be shown again...
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I know GW naming is what it is but sometimes units come out that seem particularly egregious to me. What's wrong with "mire troggoth"? They already have their copywrite-but-not-really thing with "Breaka-Boss" so did they just have to throw in an extra noun? And why not just "killbow"? That actually seems like a reasonable and suitable orky name, but noooo it needs to be a "beast-skewer killbow".
At least the models are totally fething awesome.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/27 22:28:50
H.B.M.C. wrote: Premature? How? They've done this many many times, and we know from the start of 9th that they get this wrong. Constantly.
There comes a time where 'wait and see' has to give way to pattern recognition.
When's the last time GW showed that they had a mathematical method for balance?
It's one thing to say "new boss same as the old one", but it's another thing entirely to completely ignore what changed.
the last time was first GHB when GW adopted the mathematical method for points from the Community
the other time was the DE Army book in 6th Edition which the screwed up because they had a calculation error in their formula (and we got the Errata to cut out and glue over the parts in the book)
That wasn't a 'calculation error.' At the time they were still trying to mirror the high elf and dark elf books, so used basically the same point values for the 'equivalent' units (archers, spears, great weapons, halberds, etc). Except high elves had Always Strike First on everything and dark elves... didn't. So dark elves got plowed over like roadkill. So the errata was a massive discount to basically everything to account for the lack of ASF, which proved to be a terrible band-aid and meant they were underpriced vs everyone else.
That DE errata was actually the first real deviation from the basic formula they'd been using since at least 3rd edition fantasy and rogue trader (which was amusing since the 8th edition 40k values largely returned to the RT values, meaning they went back to the old formula). For AoS its hard to even say what the formula is based on. The old one was accumulation of fractions for each statistic (WS, BS, S, T, etc) plus gear (which had a multiplier based on the stat total- low point stuff like goblins paid half, big stuff- chaos warriors and ogres, paid increasingly more). Since AoS doesn't use the same stats and wounding is based solely on the attacker (no T comparison, weapons either modify armor saves or not, rather than being strength based like WFB) the old formula doesn't apply.
And since moving to 5 point steps for units rather than 10 is apparently a 'big deal,' I can't tell what they're thinking. Other than that maybe some models are worth X and a half points so 10 of them are X5 (10 5.5 point models = 55 points, for example). Its not a revolutionary step in granularity, its just... how they used to do things, but also always assuming minimum unit size. For example, in 3rd edition goblins could take basic gobbos for 3 ppm, minimum unit size of 20 for 60 points, or gobbo stickas (archers) at 3.5 ppm, or 70 points for 20.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/06/27 22:45:22
Subject: Age of Sigmar N & R: AoS v3 and Dominion p.172.
Ghaz wrote: We already know about the following kits, but they're likely to be shown again...
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I know GW naming is what it is but sometimes units come out that seem particularly egregious to me. What's wrong with "mire troggoth"? They already have their copywrite-but-not-really thing with "Breaka-Boss" so did they just have to throw in an extra noun? And why not just "killbow"? That actually seems like a reasonable and suitable orky name, but noooo it needs to be a "beast-skewer killbow".
At least the models are totally fething awesome.
In case they want to release a wall-cracker killbow and a unit of breaka-boyz on miredwell troggoths later.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/27 22:46:07
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
