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2022/03/25 08:45:35
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
jullevi wrote: I also expect new beakies to be same size as Deathwatch/Space Marine Heroes/CSM and that would be great.
Sure. We just need primaris and custodian models redone bigger to match the size differences they are supposed to have.
How bout making all Primaris Gravis armoured? I'd actually prefer that!
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
2022/03/25 08:47:50
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
H.B.M.C. wrote: Lotta people like the HH, and like the Primarchs being more than a man.
And the first "hack-job BL guy" was Dan Abnett. You think he's a hack?
He clearly ruined the entire Horus Heresy thing.
Some of his other stuff is decent though. But his take on Horus and the Legions (also his idiotic retcon of Ultramarines, Space Wolves, etc.. in later HH books) is an atrocity that destroyed the entire 30K setting.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/25 08:49:08
2022/03/25 09:02:48
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
RazorEdge wrote: I fear they could retcon HH to make the MkVI stardard through the Heresy.
For god's sake stop overreacting. The Alpha Legion and Raven Guard had access to a lot of MkVI before the Heresy broke out and the Mechanicum, both Loyalist and Traitor, had already begun mass-producing it to supplement the Legions prior to Horus's revolt. You have to remember the Heresy wasn't some quick conflict, it lasted almost a decade, and it's already canon that by the Siege of Terra MkVI was the most common armour present in the Legions. Hell, when the Imperial Fists got involved with the Martian Schism it was Sigismund's final order to evacuate as much arms and armour as possible for the Loyalist cause before retreating. Both sides were also in no way adverse to stripping their fallen enemies of everything they could to both prevent its use and as small acts of vengeance.
The MkIV and III kits are still in production and FW is still selling its resin variants of the armour marks. Stop being paranoid.
I don't think being upset that the most under-used armor type becoming the poster boy armor in a game that is treated by a large portion of the community as a "historical" system is over-reacting. Pretty much everything you describe in your statement is true, yet this armor was still not seen in great numbers outside the RG, AL, and WS until or just before SIEGE OF TERRA, which is almost being treated as a separate IP at this point.
That aside, the Heresy was about a decade long, and at the beginning, the Legions were just finished getting equipped with shiny new MKIV armor. A few years in, these freshly stocked Legions were savaged beyond belief, and their somewhat plentiful MKIV armor was starting to dwindle. What did the Legions do? Start making chimeric suits, or producing a standardized "salvaged" suit of power armor which became known as MKV. -AND/OR- They opened up their hidden stores and old armories and distributed thousands of mothballed suits of less advanced but more simply maintained armor which was in its entirety made up of MKII CRUSADE ARMOR. The armor that once protected every single Space Marine during the Crusade, the most mass produced suit ever developed.
And you can't even purchase it. Like I'm ok with plastic MKVI existing, but it should not be the poster boy armor. If people want generic "one size fits all" approach to their Warhammer game they'll play 40K. Which is fine, but a massive portion of HH players got into the game because they had such subtle choices in personalizing their chosen Legion to the best of their ability to represent the lore accurately. GW should really have made MKII, or at least MKV with this boxset.
But yeah, Heresy vets have a right to be upset with this.
Like what are Salamander players gonna do with MKVI? The Salamanders were one of 3 Legions given MKVI to field test, and they HATED it, it didn't meld with their tactics at all, and while being an advanced suit, they preferred the use of heavier older marks that complimented their close range tactics. OH well you can buy MKIII and MKIV! And fight your buddies army with his upscaled marines that are all a whole head or more taller.
Different armour Marks didn't even exist in the original Heresy pre-BL.
All you describe above is post-retcon anyway and pointless drivel of no concern to genuine Horus Heresy fans.
2022/03/25 09:29:45
Subject: Re:Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
The first 'true' Heresy mark armour was Mk6 - all of the marines in the original Space Marine Epic boxset (which was set during the Heresy) are wearing it, its in all of the artwork in the rulebook etc.
Subsequently GW released mk7 for 2nd edition 40k onwards (I think it was introduced in Titan Legions for Epic, as 2nd edition Epic Space Marine were still beakies IIRC). You then had a kind of ret-con of earlier marks of armour being created - I'm not sure when those first appeared, was it some of the Index Astartes books/articles where you had Death Guard and whatnot in their original legion colours?
Then the modern Heresy series introduced Mk6 as being in production by the end of the Heresy series, which neatly ties up with that original Epic release and explains how the marines in it were beakies - and this has now been followed by the HH 2.0 release.
Pacific wrote: The first 'true' Heresy mark armour was Mk6 - all of the marines in the original Space Marine Epic boxset (which was set during the Heresy) are wearing it, its in all of the artwork in the rulebook etc.
Subsequently GW released mk7 for 2nd edition 40k onwards (I think it was introduced in Titan Legions for Epic, as 2nd edition Epic Space Marine were still beakies IIRC). You then had a kind of ret-con of earlier marks of armour being created - I'm not sure when those first appeared, was it some of the Index Astartes books/articles where you had Death Guard and whatnot in their original legion colours?
Then the modern Heresy series introduced Mk6 as being in production by the end of the Heresy series, which neatly ties up with that original Epic release and explains how the marines in it were beakies - and this has now been followed by the HH 2.0 release.
They appeared originally in a WD article IIRC, during the 40k 2nd edition/WFB 5th edition era.
2022/03/25 09:46:23
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
kirotheavenger wrote: Out of curiosity, what did Abnett change about Ultramarines in later HH books? I've only read the early ones.
Well, it's retconned the fluff where in 745.M41 the Emperor awarded the Ultramarines the planet of Macragge and gave them full Adeptus Astartes status in reward for them defeating Hive-Fleet Behemoth in the Last Tyrannic war!
2022/03/25 09:53:24
Subject: Re:Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
They said on the stream that all the generic Legion units would be plastic and it would only be specialist stuff that would remain FW. Might mean a new Sicaran, I would be surprised if there was no Deimos considering SoB already have one.
2022/03/25 10:54:30
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Last Chance to Buy - Sicaran, Deimos Rhino, Black Books
Gert wrote: They said on the stream that all the generic Legion units would be plastic and it would only be specialist stuff that would remain FW. Might mean a new Sicaran, I would be surprised if there was no Deimos considering SoB already have one.
I wonder if they'll do resin conversion kits for the specialist Sicarans or switch it all to plastic
2022/03/25 11:05:40
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
kirotheavenger wrote: Out of curiosity, what did Abnett change about Ultramarines in later HH books? I've only read the early ones.
Well, it's retconned the fluff where in 745.M41 the Emperor awarded the Ultramarines the planet of Macragge and gave them full Adeptus Astartes status in reward for them defeating Hive-Fleet Behemoth in the Last Tyrannic war!
I don't think it was Abnett that retconned that, if that was ever the case.
I remember reading about the Tyrannic War in 5th edition and Macragge was the Ultra's fortress monastery.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/25 11:07:23
2022/03/25 11:10:57
Subject: Re:Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Heresy 2.0 announced
Crablezworth wrote: Really hoping they're not yeeting the sicaran for the new tank, also hoping this is because we'll see a new plastic rhino.
I predict a dual turret option in a plastic Sicaran kit to provide a classic existing one, and a new one therefore driving sales even amongst established players/collectors.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
But yeah, Heresy vets have a right to be upset with this.
No we don't. Its just a fething game with a made up history that can and will be changed as often as it suits the needs of the writers. Get over yourself already.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/25 11:12:12
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/03/25 11:17:45
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Last Chance to Buy - Sicaran, Deimos Rhino, Black Books
kirotheavenger wrote: Out of curiosity, what did Abnett change about Ultramarines in later HH books? I've only read the early ones.
Well, it's retconned the fluff where in 745.M41 the Emperor awarded the Ultramarines the planet of Macragge and gave them full Adeptus Astartes status in reward for them defeating Hive-Fleet Behemoth in the Last Tyrannic war!
I don't think it was Abnett that retconned that, if that was ever the case.
I remember reading about the Tyrannic War in 5th edition and Macragge was the Ultra's fortress monastery.
Pretty sure it is a reference to material regarding the Ultramarines during the RT era.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2022/03/25 11:26:45
Subject: Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Last Chance to Buy - Sicaran, Deimos Rhino, Black Books
Pacific wrote: The first 'true' Heresy mark armour was Mk6 - all of the marines in the original Space Marine Epic boxset (which was set during the Heresy) are wearing it, its in all of the artwork in the rulebook etc.
Subsequently GW released mk7 for 2nd edition 40k onwards (I think it was introduced in Titan Legions for Epic, as 2nd edition Epic Space Marine were still beakies IIRC). You then had a kind of ret-con of earlier marks of armour being created - I'm not sure when those first appeared, was it some of the Index Astartes books/articles where you had Death Guard and whatnot in their original legion colours?
Then the modern Heresy series introduced Mk6 as being in production by the end of the Heresy series, which neatly ties up with that original Epic release and explains how the marines in it were beakies - and this has now been followed by the HH 2.0 release.
They appeared originally in a WD article IIRC, during the 40k 2nd edition/WFB 5th edition era.
This isn't *quite* accurate. The idea of different armour marks was introduced in an article by Rick Priestley in WD129 from December 1990 – so pretty much bang in the middle of 1st edition. This also coincided with the release of the Space Marine Strike Force box set, which contained the original MkVII models – the ones with metal bodies and plastic arms/bolters/backpacks. Most of the general characteristics of the various marks, and where they fit into the chronology of the Great Crusade/Heresy are established in this article and there've only been fairly minor tweaks to this since (e.g. they did away with the idea of MkII and III suits having the helmet fixed in place, with the wearer's head moving about *inside*, presumably on the basis that 1. it made for less dynamic models and 2. it was silly). I *think* the article in question was reproduced in the Warhammer 40,000 Compilation (the yellow book with Dave Gallagher's Blood Angels vs Genestealers painting on the front) but my memory's a bit fuzzy on that front.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
