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Twenty plastic weapons for £26 is still, for me, not a good price.
Compared to what though? I just want to know your line of thinking because you've said it makes you think of resin prices and you've been shown it's vastly cheaper.
I could switch it back and ask you why you think that £26 for 20 plastic weapons is fair?
I guess it's my perception of value regarding the material used (plastic being much cheaper in the long term) and the fact that they are literally only an optional part of a model, rather than a model themselves. I freely admit that perception of value isn't always based on logic.
I mean, a Necromunda gang is only slightly more expensive at £28?
Ultimately I was more concerned with why some of the new releases are direct only, I wish I'd left out the resin/HIPs comparison now
Thats a quick way to burn a relationship with GW I imagine, doubt he's going to continue to get influencer perks or preview materials going forward after that.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I could switch it back and ask you why you think that £26 for 20 plastic weapons is fair?
Because it's vastly cheaper than it was and it's 9/10 times going to be a one-time purchase per army. I'll be getting one of the SW packs because that's all I'll need.
Ultimately I was more concerned with why some of the new releases are direct only, I wish I'd left out the resin/HIPs comparison now
Which releases weren't going to partner stores? There's a lot of dross in this thread so I'd appreciate being enlightened.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/31 17:42:15
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I could switch it back and ask you why you think that £26 for 20 plastic weapons is fair?
Because it's vastly cheaper than it was and it's 9/10 times going to be a one-time purchase per army. I'll be getting one of the SW packs because that's all I'll need.
Ultimately I was more concerned with why some of the new releases are direct only, I wish I'd left out the resin/HIPs comparison now
Which releases weren't going to partner stores? There's a lot of dross in this thread so I'd appreciate being enlightened.
Agreed about the dross.
Page 183, it looks like the Kratos, Rhino, both weapon boxes, Ahriman. They are all described as "trade/direct", which seems to mean direct only.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I could switch it back and ask you why you think that £26 for 20 plastic weapons is fair?
Because it's vastly cheaper than it was and it's 9/10 times going to be a one-time purchase per army. I'll be getting one of the SW packs because that's all I'll need.
Ultimately I was more concerned with why some of the new releases are direct only, I wish I'd left out the resin/HIPs comparison now
Which releases weren't going to partner stores? There's a lot of dross in this thread so I'd appreciate being enlightened.
Agreed about the dross.
Page 183, it looks like the Kratos, Rhino, both weapon boxes, Ahriman. They are all described as "trade/direct", which seems to mean direct only.
I hope not though, for obvious reasons.
That's the Australian order sheet. In the UK/EU it seems only the Mk3/Mk4 repacks, transfers and dice are direct only *knocks on wood*
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I could switch it back and ask you why you think that £26 for 20 plastic weapons is fair?
Because it's vastly cheaper than it was and it's 9/10 times going to be a one-time purchase per army. I'll be getting one of the SW packs because that's all I'll need.
Ultimately I was more concerned with why some of the new releases are direct only, I wish I'd left out the resin/HIPs comparison now
Which releases weren't going to partner stores? There's a lot of dross in this thread so I'd appreciate being enlightened.
Agreed about the dross.
Page 183, it looks like the Kratos, Rhino, both weapon boxes, Ahriman. They are all described as "trade/direct", which seems to mean direct only.
I hope not though, for obvious reasons.
That's the Australian order sheet. In the UK/EU it seems only the Mk3/Mk4 repacks, transfers and dice are direct only *knocks on wood*
Twenty plastic weapons for £26 is still, for me, not a good price.
Compared to what though? I just want to know your line of thinking because you've said it makes you think of resin prices and you've been shown it's vastly cheaper.
I could switch it back and ask you why you think that £26 for 20 plastic weapons is fair?
I guess it's my perception of value regarding the material used (plastic being much cheaper in the long term) and the fact that they are literally only an optional part of a model, rather than a model themselves. I freely admit that perception of value isn't always based on logic.
Ok, let's compare plastic to plastic. Funnily enough, two devastator boxes cost about the same as new 20 SM box plus weapon upgrade. One gives you 10 bodies with 5x4 heavy weapons, the other 20 bodies with 2/3x10 heavies - but you control which ones you get and seeing most legions have one preferred weapon anyway, this is much better deal. You might argue the deal is still not good enough, but it's vastly better than what you get on 40K side. 30K SM costs much less per mini, new Rhino is cheaper than 40K one (and before someone says BUT RAZORBACK, compare SoB Rhino to see how good deal HH box is), really, I have no idea why GW went so hard into discounts now, were sales failing after last round of price raises? Especially for such dying game, if more than 5% of 'HH' models from this wave will be bought by Heresy players instead of 40KSM and SoB armies (especially heavy flamer/melta pack will be hit with Sisters) I will be shocked...
I really like this bit: "Legion Veterans, Terminators of all flavours, and certain Legion-specific Elites now sport two Wounds to represent their robustness in the face of withering fire." It's classic "how to admit beyond idiotic, game balance shattering, stupid decision to give squats in 40K two wounds because tiny minority of players hating primaris were screeching they dared to have better statline somehow got to rules writer without actually admitting so but making it so plain it's beyond obvious"
Really, they should just give both kinds of squats back 1W, with only primaris and veterans having 2W, roll back stupid damage inflation, presto, 40K is fixed and you will start seeing vehicles and 'weaker' armies back on table again...
I really like this bit: "Legion Veterans, Terminators of all flavours, and certain Legion-specific Elites now sport two Wounds to represent their robustness in the face of withering fire." It's classic "how to admit beyond idiotic, game balance shattering, stupid decision to give squats in 40K two wounds because tiny minority of players hating primaris were screeching they dared to have better statline somehow got to rules writer without actually admitting so but making it so plain it's beyond obvious"
Really, they should just give both kinds of squats back 1W, with only primaris and veterans having 2W, roll back stupid damage inflation, presto, 40K is fixed and you will start seeing vehicles and 'weaker' armies back on table again...
40k and Horus Heresy don't share the same ruleset. Unless there is some Horus Heresy official Squats army list with 2-wound models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/31 20:06:57
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Irbis wrote: It's classic "how to admit beyond idiotic, game balance shattering, stupid decision to give squats in 40K two wounds because tiny minority of players hating primaris were screeching they dared to have better statline somehow got to rules writer without actually admitting so but making it so plain it's beyond obvious"
This is the Horus Heresy thread. It has nothing to do with what's happening in 40k, so what are you going on about?
I was a little bit surprised that the Sicaran and Contemptor kits aren't part of the preorder for this week. Any ideas as to how long it will take for them to get released?
I think there's just something irksome about high prices for a bunch of weapons. Sure, Forgeworld may have previously demanded a kidney - but still.
With other things you can imagine you are paying for design, marketing, just the whole uniqueness of the model being good. Whereas say 10 identical autocannons? Its hard not to feel I'm paying for anything but the plastic, which cost pennies.
I think its a fair point that you can just buy a couple of boxes and then equip a large number of Marines if that's what you want to do (assuming you use all the weapons in the box) - so the overall cost isn't that bad. But still.
Togusa wrote: I was a little bit surprised that the Sicaran and Contemptor kits aren't part of the preorder for this week. Any ideas as to how long it will take for them to get released?
I’m expecting them around this time next month. Hypothesis is that for major releases (new game, edition, strongly updated range). GW tie it into waves based on known Average Transaction Value. Benefit to them is by sticking to ATV, they get double Now Shiny Must Buy Now sales, where if they just dumped everything, all at once, then folk wouldn’t be able to but everything they’ve convinced themselves they want, and won’t necessarily be back for the rest, due to the weekly released schedule.
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Togusa wrote: I was a little bit surprised that the Sicaran and Contemptor kits aren't part of the preorder for this week. Any ideas as to how long it will take for them to get released?
I’m expecting them around this time next month. Hypothesis is that for major releases (new game, edition, strongly updated range). GW tie it into waves based on known Average Transaction Value. Benefit to them is by sticking to ATV, they get double Now Shiny Must Buy Now sales, where if they just dumped everything, all at once, then folk wouldn’t be able to but everything they’ve convinced themselves they want, and won’t necessarily be back for the rest, due to the weekly released schedule.
Oh gosh, another useless 40k like rule...
So if a Salamander player fights against my army, and especially if he plays infantry heavy like usual, he will benefit from... nothing. He would simply play with no special rules. Except yeah maybe on his rhinos The same happened to the IW. Why couldn't they just keep the good old rules that were working ? Why do they have to put situational rules like that ?
What was wrong with a better ld and better flamers ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/31 21:25:10
Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
Oh gosh, another useless 40k like rule...
So if a Salamander player fights against my army, and especially if he plays infantry heavy like usual, he will benefit from... nothing. He would simply play with no special rules. Except yeah maybe on his rhinos The same happened to the IW. Why couldn't they just keep the good old rules that were working ? Why do they have to put situational rules like that ?
What was wrong with a better ld and better flamers ?
I get where you're coming from. They do still have the the better flamers and they can technically still get the immunity to fear from a warlord trait, but they lost the rock solid leadership. So now you have a force that allegedly is so resolute to the point that they're suicidal, yet their tactical marines have leadership 7 and will still run like any other army...
Also, how have GW still not realized that flamers are garbage in a game where 95% of your opponents are power armoured? You want us to take them, give them breaching or something.
Midnightdeathblade wrote:Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
Oh gosh, another useless 40k like rule...
So if a Salamander player fights against my army, and especially if he plays infantry heavy like usual, he will benefit from... nothing. He would simply play with no special rules. Except yeah maybe on his rhinos The same happened to the IW. Why couldn't they just keep the good old rules that were working ? Why do they have to put situational rules like that ?
What was wrong with a better ld and better flamers ?
I get where you're coming from. They do still have the the better flamers and they can technically still get the immunity to fear from a warlord trait, but they lost the rock solid leadership. So now you have a force that allegedly is so resolute to the point that they're suicidal, yet their tactical marines have leadership 7 and will still run like any other army...
Also, how have GW still not realized that flamers are garbage in a game where 95% of your opponents are power armoured? You want us to take them, give them breaching or something.
Yeah, the flamer thing is irritating. I don't think it would be too difficult to pump up their chosen weapons. But the leadership thing is a kick in the junk...resolute warriors my ass
kodos wrote: He is salty that some Marines in 30k get 2 Wounds before CSM get them in 40k
Yeah, nah, I don't think that's it. He talked an awful lot about Squats. And not at all about Chaos Marines.
Pretty sure he was just repeatedly mis-spelling "squads".
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kodos wrote: He is salty that some Marines in 30k get 2 Wounds before CSM get them in 40k
Yeah, nah, I don't think that's it. He talked an awful lot about Squats. And not at all about Chaos Marines.
Pretty sure he was just repeatedly mis-spelling "squads".
I think the use of squats was a derogatory reference to firstborn marines, not taking into account that Votann are a thing now to make it more confusing.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
How exactly is -1 to wound from four different weapon types and a 6+ it will not die "weak" I swear sometimes I think players just cry about everything because it's not OP as heck.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah as a Salamander fan, they are so underwhelming. Their Legion rules are so weak in comparison to others. Almost as if they are a constant afterthought
How exactly is -1 to wound from four different weapon types and a 6+ it will not die "weak" I swear sometimes I think players just cry about everything because it's not OP as heck.
It's weak when you compare it to things like -1 to be wounded in the first round of combat or a flat +1 initiative when you assault. Those have universal application except for units you don't want in combat. What if you're salamanders and you fight an army focused almost entirely on melee? Your rule is pretty much worthless.
The IWND is only for multi wound models, which will be nice for dreads.
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