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Redemptionists (Troops, Power Rating 2)

10-30 Redemptionist: M 6", WS 5+, BS 5+, S3, T3, W1, A1, Ld 5, Sv 7+

If this unit contains between 11 and 20 models, it has Power Rating 4. If this unit contains 21 or more models, it has Power Rating 6. Every model is equipped with: 1 autopistol; 1 chainsword; 1 frag grenades.

Wargear Options

• Any number of Redemptionists can each have their autopistol replaced with 1 of the following: 1 autogun; 1 shotgun.

For every 5 models in this unit, 1 Redemptionist may replace their autopistol with 1 of the following: 1 chainsword; 1 flamer; 1 grenade launcher; 1 handflamer; 1 heavy stubber; 1 krak grenades; 1 penitent eviscerator.

Abilities

Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave: See Codex: Adepta Sororitas

Zealot: See Codex: Adepta Sororitas.

Angry Mob: Re-roll wound rolls of 1 for attacks made by models in this unit whilst it contains 20 or more models.

Witness the Miracle: Each time a Combat Attrition test is taken for this unit while it is within 6" of a friendly model that performed an Act of Faith in that turn, add 1 to that Combat Attrition test.

Keywords

Faction: IMPERIUM, ADEPTUS MINISTORUM

Keywords: INFANTRY, ECCLESIARCHY BATTLE CONCLAVE, REDEMPTIONISTS

Points Costs

Redemptionist: 5 points

Autogun: 0 points

Autopistol: 0 points

Chainsword: 0 points

Flamer: 5 points

Frag grenades: 0 points

Grenade launcher: 2 points

Hand flamer: 5 points

Heavy stubber: 2 points

Krak grenades: 0 points

Penitent eviscerator: 1 point

Shotgun: 0 points

New Stratagem: Protect the Blessed Ones! (1 Command Point)
The fanatics of the Frateris Militia are rallied to battle by their spiritual leaders, and surge with fury against those who would threaten such holy souls.
Use this Stratagem at the end of your opponent's Charge phase. Pick one REDEMPTIONISTS unit from your army, and one friendly ADEPTUS MINISTORUM CHARACTER within 6" of that unit. That REDEMPTIONISTS unit can declare a charge against any enemy units that are within Engagement Range of that CHARACTER, as if it were your Charge phase. Until the end of the turn, enemy units within Engagement Range of that REDEMPTIONIST unit cannot target that CHARACTER in the Fight phase.

OLD VERSION:

Why are they PL 3 for 10, but +1 for each extra 10?

The Mob Maul should cost at least 1 point.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why are they PL 3 for 10, but +1 for each extra 10?

A mistake on my part; thanks for catching it! They were originally PL2, +1 for 10 and +2 for 20 (like Grots). Then I elected to bump them to PL2, +2 per extra 10, just because of the sheer volume of flamers you could include without paying for them under Power Level rules; 6 flamers plus 24 shotguns for PL4 would have been a sick joke, even at BS5+, but PL6 looked more reasonable.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The Mob Maul should cost at least 1 point.

In a vacuum I'd totally agree, but note that you can only take a Mob Maul by replacing both your Mob Weapon and your Autopistol (or your two Mob Weapons or two Autopistols, which is also an option). That means you're looking at 2 S5 attacks or 3 S3 attacks, which work out pretty evenly. The two mob weapons are slightly better against T2 and T3, slightly worse against T4 and T6, and the same against T5. Buffs that give you extra attacks (e.g. Priest) synergize better with the Maul, while buffs that boost existing attacks (e.g. Angry Mob) synergize better with the two Mob Weapons. To my mind, Mob Maul wouldn't be worth it at 1pt.

That's the same reason grenade launchers and heavy stubbers got a points downgrade; at BS5+ with no Zealot boost, they're pathetic compared to flamers, handflamers, or even eviscerators.

Thank you for the feedback! Two other things that are bugging me, curious about your thoughts:

Between the conditional Shield of Faith, conditional Sacred Rites, and conditional <ORDER>, I worry that this unit is too complicated. I still love the flavour of giving them a boost whenever they see a Miracle, but I wonder if it might be too fiddly. Same goes for adding <ORDER>, even though it's a gateway for so many abilities and Stratagems in this army... Should I try to streamline these abilities somewhat, turn them into Stratagems, or am I worrying too much?

I'm concerned that Angry Mob might be too weak compared to other abilities of its type - or at least, too weak to have a meaningful impact on this unit... but +1 to wound feels too powerful, and re-rolling all wounds is even stronger than that.

it's not too weak, 40k generally doesn't have bonuses like that for having large units. although that's an idea they could proably stand to borrow from AOS for 9th edition

BrianDavion wrote:
it's not too weak, 40k generally doesn't have bonuses like that for having large units. although that's an idea they could proably stand to borrow from AOS for 9th edition

It's more just... inconsistent in having them, honestly. Daemons do, but Chaos Cultists don't. Tyranids do, but Genestealer Cults don't. Orks do, but Astra Militarum don't. I can only put it down to design philosophy.

Here it's used to give them a little more oomph in large units.

Updates!

Redemptionists now have 2A, and no "mob weapon" by default. This is simpler, and makes the "ranged" build more attractive and the eviscerator more worthwhile.

The "mob maul" no longer exists, and the "two mob weapons" option is replaced with a "chainsword" option – simplfied, and any two-handed weapons on Cawdor/Fanatic models are just chainswords or eviscerators. Similarly, there is no "two autopistols" option.

Removed the entire "gain the <ORDER> keyword" conceit – it produced too many weird situations.

Reworked "Witness the Miracle" – forcing Shield of Faith to rely on an Act of Faith meant that your Redemptionists were left utterly without saves if you lost the first turn, unless your opponent shot at your Battle Sisters first and you spent Miracle dice on your saves. This did have a fun fire magnet effect – if you lost the first turn, your Battle Sisters could be kept safe by the fact that Redemptionists were briefly more vulnerable targets – but it felt too clunky and complex.

Instead, you just get the Sacred Rites/Shield of Faith abilities as a special aura from the DIALOGUS, and "Witness the Miracle" now gives you free Miracle dice that you can only use on nearby Redemptionists, who can't use regular Miracle dice – they become fanboys, basically, who get charged up by watching Sororitas do Miracles.

Might still mess around with Witness the Miracle – it needs testing, and could well be too complicated, while the simplified, non-conditional access to Shield of Faith and Sacred Rites could be too strong for their points cost.

I'd also like something to encourage taking them with a MINISTORUM PRIEST (other than the "Priestly Delegation" restriction), but I can't see an organic way to do it. It might require a Stratagem – maybe "fight twice" or "ignore morale" or something similar for a REDEMPTIONIST unit within 3" of a friendly PRIEST. Hell, maybe a Specialist Detachment – the Sororitas don't have any of those, yet.

Interesting unit. I feel their Ld is maybe a point or two higher than it should be. These strike me as a conscript comparison.
Besides, slap a Missionary with these guys and you're suddenly losing half the amount of models you'd lose to morale without it as well as increasing their attacks by 1/3. Both of which is amazing honestly. I don't have the codex handy right now, but can the Missionary take the relic that increases their aura buffs? A few blobs of redemptionists with a Missionary like that would be pretty nasty potentially.

For 360pts (plus missionary auto include) you've got 90+1 bodies on the field that ignore morale losses on a 4+. Put in Celestine for a 6++ for them as well 5++ if near the Dialogus.

I wouldn't worry about wanting to take more priests with these outside of getting more from the restriction. The way I read this, if you're taking redemptionists, you're auto including a Missionary because their interactions are just so good.

It's an interesting unit. I like the interaction of Witness the Miracle. You could field just a bunch of receptionists and have an ecclesiarchy force, but having sisters too is a benefit.
I do like it's got the battle enclave rule so there's no way to rely on super cheap redemptionists troop for CP farming and making a new loyal/fanatic 32.

I like these guys. They’re higher-end Frateris Militia — not random rabble — and might deserve Ld 6 or even 7. I like the idea of them having some Sister-like abilities, but I think the current rules are still too complex: Rather than be able to access a wide range of abilities in narrow circumstances, it’d be a lot easier to play if they got one ability, say Shield of Faith, all the time.

Just rereading it now. Thinking a rules Nazi could probably argue that a redemptionists squad can't use an AoF because a sisters squad has to use one first nearby and seeing as you have them follow the rules for AoF in the book, they cannot perform an AoF because they do not have a Simulcrum in order to do one when an AoF has already been done.

Also, the "Not counting to max number used" bit makes it sound like you could surround a rede ptionist squ ass with Simulcrum sisters, do like 6 AoF with them and give that one squad 6 AoF procs.
Though my rules naziing is not good, I could be over reading it.
Maybe wording the MD gain for these squads in a way that the MD the redemptionists get from the sisters doesn't go to a pool but to the squad themselves?

Eg, "if an AS unit performs an AoF in a phase, redemptionists units within 6" of that AS unit gain 1 MD to performs an AoF in that same phase." Or something like that?

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Just rereading it now. Thinking a rules Nazi could probably argue that a redemptionists squad can't use an AoF because a sisters squad has to use one first nearby and seeing as you have them follow the rules for AoF in the book, they cannot perform an AoF because they do not have a Simulcrum in order to do one when an AoF has already been done.

Also, the "Not counting to max number used" bit makes it sound like you could surround a rede ptionist squ ass with Simulcrum sisters, do like 6 AoF with them and give that one squad 6 AoF procs.
Though my rules naziing is not good, I could be over reading it.
Maybe wording the MD gain for these squads in a way that the MD the redemptionists get from the sisters doesn't go to a pool but to the squad themselves?

Eg, "if an AS unit performs an AoF in a phase, redemptionists units within 6" of that AS unit gain 1 MD to performs an AoF in that same phase." Or something like that?

While cleaning up the wording is an admirable goal, I feel that the intent is clear-and for a homebrew unit, that's all that's really needed. Since you're certainly not taking this to a tournament, so long as you and your gamemates get what it's supposed to do, that's enough.

Yeah I get it

But you know, there's always at least one person

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Yeah I get it

But you know, there's always at least one person

True. Very true.

I'll be honest, there's something about the faces that I just find hilarious. Could be a result of the paint job.

Updated with a greatly simplified Holy Militia rule. I'm not happy with how much synergy it removes between this unit and the Missionary (since you don't have to worry as much about Morale if you're giving them some Miracles to be awed by), but you could only take one Missionary to begin with, and you might not always want to pull off a Miracle, so... it's fine, I guess.

Also added a new Stratagem to encourage you to keep them around your characters even more. Don't touch my priests!

Mildly concerned, on reflection, with how the Passion Sacred Rite directly doubles the effectiveness of your Penitent Eviscerators – you're hitting on 6s anyway, so doubling hits on a 6 makes them borderline reliable if you've got enough. 6 Penitent Eviscerators next to a priest amounts to 18 attacks, 3 hits, then 5 hits after Zealot re-roll. That's doubled to 10 hits... with Strength 6, AP-3, D2, and re-rolling 1s to wound if you're an Angry Mob. And you've still got the rest of the swarm to go.

Maybe I should just ditch the Sacred Rite bonus entirely? Then again, that's about the same cost as 10 Repentia, who hit harder, don't need a DIALOGUS to get the bonuses, can fit in a Rhino, and can fight twice with a Strat. It might not be a problem on an army level... though it almost certainly is on an internal balance level, given how weighted toward CC mobs this unit already is.

I think ditching Sacred Rites is the right (ha) move -- rites are very specifically a Sororitas thing, not a Ministorum thing, it's just that Ministorum units in the army don't prevent Sisters from using their Rites. I'd aim these guys at a niche that's better than pure expendable rabble but worse than Repentia.