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Haha, thanks for the tip big Mac, but the masks I could get hold of aren't nearly high quality enough to survive something like that unfortunately...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Japanese are obsessively clean in my experience.

Well I have seen plenty japanese leave toilet without washing hands...but then again plenty of non-japanese as well. That seems to be more of person to person rather than country to country. Weird but in japan at least since they shake hands less than elsewhere less of an issue for me personally.

One of my coworkers just got back from Italy and seems happy enough to wonder about the place as he pleases. Annoyingly though, if he has got it and he has passed it along I won’t be able to visit my grandma anytime soon, and I promised I’d visit more after grandad passed away.

Keep washing your hands.

Hand washing aside, another factor I haven't seen mentioned is personal space. The buses I rode in Korea were shoulder to shoulder standing room only. This isn't to disparage anything it just came to mind after hearing about the outbreak in Korea. In my experience it's just how it is there, at least where I was at the time. The US is a little different, we like more space.

The funny part of that bus story is we went to McDonalds, near either Anjeong-ri or Pyeongtaek, and that was the best double cheese burgers I have had. Sadly there was a small bit of a language problem and I ended up with two meals and not the two burgers I had tried to order. I guess that's my equivalent of the Howard Moon pencil box story.

tneva82 wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Japanese are obsessively clean in my experience.

Well I have seen plenty japanese leave toilet without washing hands...but then again plenty of non-japanese as well. That seems to be more of person to person rather than country to country. Weird but in japan at least since they shake hands less than elsewhere less of an issue for me personally.

I'd be very happy if this put a nail in the handshake culture. I hate having the obligation to take other people's greasy, clammy, smelly paws.


The BBC website is currently running 'live updates' on the virus. Its waffling between somewhat informative and outright fear-mongering though..
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-51628990

Wouldn’t be like the BBC to talk a load of gak.

I don’t doubt that coronavirus is something to worry about, but so is seasonal flu. And we don’t crap ourselves over that too much.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Wouldn’t be like the BBC to talk a load of gak.

I don’t doubt that coronavirus is something to worry about, but so is seasonal flu. And we don’t crap ourselves over that too much.

It's the difference between 'news' and 'olds.' A shiny new thing focused on watching the counter tick is far scarier (more ratings) than the much larger but more familiar numbers for flu. It's also that for the flu, people have either pushed the associated death rate to the background as 'normal' or are ignorant enough to be unaware there is one.

Human psychology is fun and scarily easy to manipulate. And for much of the world (particularly the industrialized world), disease is a buzzword that they don't know how to cope with anymore. Smallpox is on its way out of living memory, Spanish Flu is barely remembered, and the major modern diseases are geographically located (Ebola) or still (wrongly) viewed as associated with specific groups. The general populace doesn't know how to process a new general contagion, so, the fear cycle spikes.

Flu is a background disease though.

Let us put this in true perspective, flue kills far fewer people than strokes or heart disease, yet there is no 'fear' of fast food.

Flu happens, obesity related illness or smoking related illnesses happen, they ARE background, they ARE casual.

COVID-19 has its own distinct dynamic, and is no irrelevance. The fact that more people die of others things is not relevant, influenza is endemic to the human population and I don t know of any serious plan to eradicate it, and there are much larger killers out there which we can do something about but collectively wont because the diseases themselves are symptomic of our society.

COVID-19 is neither, and it is making a big hit where it strikes, and most notably there is something we can do about it. We cant stop flu, but human action can stop this. It isnt 'news' and 'olds', but a more localised threat we can deal with vs a larger one we cannot.

Let us take a completely different example. What is the difference between hit and run drives on a rampage and general driving while tired. Which kills more people? A handful of people die in hit and runs, tired drivers kill a multitude. There is a limit to what we can do to regulate driving while tired, but the police will be all over a hit and run driver. Also accident statistics don't make the news, but a psycho behind the wheel will. I do not see the focus as illogical.

The focus isn't 'illogical,' but the way its being covered by the media (and WHO and national disease organizations) is encouraging panicked behavior and paranoia. The current headlines I'm reading right are basically now 'the Italian outbreak' is creeping everywhere because of those evil Italians are sneaking in to other countries, and quibbling over the exact definition of pandemic to avoid calling it one. Neither take is actually helpful.

Lots of diseases were endemic to the human population. Smallpox certainly was. Some, like smallpox, were eliminated. The bubonic plague was reduced to a nuisance (its still around, but basic antibiotics clear it right up). Other diseases, like malaria, were targets for elimination, but efforts to wipe it out made it disease resistant and worse.



Your 'example' makes no sense. 'Hit and Run' and 'Tired Driver' aren't mutually exclusive, and neither has any meaningful relationship to a 'psycho behind the wheel.' Either circumstance, or neither, could involve a 'psycho.' Hit and Runs largely happen when the driver panics after an accident and takes off. The cause of a 'hit and run' can be anything.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Wouldn’t be like the BBC to talk a load of gak.

I don’t doubt that coronavirus is something to worry about, but so is seasonal flu. And we don’t crap ourselves over that too much.

Diarrhea isn't a common flu symptom so that makes sense.

Voss wrote:
The focus isn't 'illogical,' but the way its being covered by the media (and WHO and national disease organizations) is encouraging panicked behavior and paranoia.

Warning people has this inevitable effect. Now the media is overegging this, but that is what the media do. Got any problem, social, scandal, economic, military etc the media hype it up, so viruses are no different.

Voss wrote:

The current headlines I'm reading right are basically now 'the Italian outbreak' is creeping everywhere because of those evil Italians are sneaking in to other countries, and quibbling over the exact definition of pandemic to avoid calling it one. Neither take is actually helpful.

Not really, that is a very warped spin on it.

Voss wrote:

Lots of diseases were endemic to the human population. Smallpox certainly was. Some, like smallpox, were eliminated. The bubonic plague was reduced to a nuisance (its still around, but basic antibiotics clear it right up). Other diseases, like malaria, were targets for elimination, but efforts to wipe it out made it disease resistant and worse.

Not all plagues are the same.

Voss wrote:

Your 'example' makes no sense. 'Hit and Run' and 'Tired Driver' aren't mutually exclusive, and neither has any meaningful relationship to a 'psycho behind the wheel.'

It makes sense when you look at it from the human perspective. these are not subsets in a Venn diagram, they are highlighted social issues and this have blurred boundaries. Look at it that way and it should make more sense to you.

Voss wrote:

Either circumstance, or neither, could involve a 'psycho.' Hit and Runs largely happen when the driver panics after an accident and takes off. The cause of a 'hit and run' can be anything.

You are misreading this, maybe I should have been more clear, maybe you should read it more carefully, whichever is the case. Psychos were mentioned specifically. Use the context to critique the context correctly. I was not referring to any hit and run, which can just be a regular accident with someone leaving illegally afterwards to evade responsibility. I mentioned 'hit and run drives on a rampage' and 'psycho behind the wheel', this is way different from a regular hit and run. Its a deliberate act, and unlike a hit and run does make the news when it happens. Big time. There was a recent attack in Germany, there was one in the US last year at an Antifa rally. In both those cases the vehicle was stopped (it still counts as a hit and run, as that involves any accident where the driver causes harm and deliberately keeps on moving), but in many cases it keeps on going, or even escapes. Now crazies using vehicles for ramming is a tiniest proportion compared to those who die from mundane traffic collision events, such as taking the most innocuous case as the opposite extreme, driving while tired.
I choose these as two extreme examples, I could have used regular hit and runs vs drink drivers, but the analogy doesn't stack so well and much is done to combat drink driving in most civilised countries. Driving while tired however is more casual and harder to regulate against, its impact (sic) is similar to that of going to work anyway while still having the flu. Its not a story the press can bite into and not an issue any authority can adequately regulated or educate against.

The point here is that casual events can cause more harm than highlighted problems. A tired driver is unlikely to kill as many people in one place than someone who deliberately drives a car into a crowd, so there is a statistical spike. COVID-19 is like that in a way, its a localised threat which can cause a nasty casuality spike in a local area in a short period of time and cause immense disruption. It is not in any way unreasonable that it attracts more press attention and official sanctioned action, than influenza or other medical threats that make influenza only a comparitively minor issue.

Look at this on a societal level and the media and government focus because more logical and reasonable.
No politician is going to say, 'we ought not to overfocus on Coronavirus but instead tackle high fast diets and smoking'. Even though with regards to lives at risk high fat diets and smoking is a far bigger societal threat than COVID-19.

All im saying is if there is a full on outbreak im moving to North Korea.They have no cases of Coronavirus at all! Not a single one

Japanese don't shake hands, usually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They bow.

 Argive wrote:
All im saying is if there is a full on outbreak im moving to North Korea.They have no cases of Coronavirus at all! Not a single one

Glorious Leader already invented Coronavirus.
Oh, wait. Let's not tell everyone that one.

The mortality rate on this is still startling small for the "panic" that it is generating.

Invisible killers have this dynamic.

 Easy E wrote:
The mortality rate on this is still startling small for the "panic" that it is generating.

It's not the mortality rate that's troubling, it's how contagious it is.


death cults and bio bombs, lovely
https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-tests-every-shincheonji-cult-member-coronavirus-outbreak-2020-2?fbclid=IwAR1sMuPNXHnhKqZbcdEWEYLpWkvhEPffLXeGFgTqLNVZEko0NC2dL0zAeZc

 posermcbogus wrote:
Haha, thanks for the tip big Mac, but the masks I could get hold of aren't nearly high quality enough to survive something like that unfortunately...

I was informed by another source that hot water does kill germs but it also kills the effectiveness of the mask, so the best solution is to use a hair dryer and blow it on hot for 3-4 minutes, and it should be good for reuse.

 Argive wrote:
All im saying is if there is a full on outbreak im moving to North Korea.They have no cases of Coronavirus at all! Not a single one

In the unlikely case that this anti communist virus were to get past the border guards into North Korea the great leader as devised a cunning quarantine plan. Everybody inside the quarantine zone will be shot.

It's not just how infectious it is, but also because of how highly mobile we are today. The average person in the developed world can travel all the way around the world without much trouble. Business trips and holidays are affordable and if you're really strapped for cash you can go camp out in the airport and wait for them to sell off seats dirt cheap to fill the plan due to people cancelling or not turning up at the last moment. Of course you might not get a direct path to where you want to go that way so you might end up hop-skipping around a few air-ports to get from A to B.

Even within a country we think nothing of being able to travel from one end to the other in a day (perhaps a bit longer for those in the USA by road).


For containment this is a nightmare because very quickly things spiral. The UK has 15 cases but is issuing 7000 tests. And those are likely the people they can directly trace, it ignores all the random people on the street/airport etc.. that might have come into contact with the 15 infected.

That's where the real panic sets in, its the high mobility society allowing an infectious disease to spread at a very fast rate. Whilst our social and economic situations don't really allow us to just shut everything down and stop moving for a couple of weeks on the offchance.

More updates from the land of the rising sun!

SO...

...a TON of public events have been cancelled. Including our annual end-of-academic-year party (that means no getting super blasted with the elderly Japanese teachers who are the most fun to drink with... ). Masks still sold out, and apparently testing kits for the virus are in pretty short supply. Most folks seem to think if you're not in REALLY bad shape, you should just self-quarantine, and everyone's being advised to top up any emergency supplies they have (or, if you're stupid, like me, actually go out an buy some for the first time because even though we rarely get natural disasters here, turns out, ya still need 'em.), so panic buying is almost certainly going to be a thing.

The number of official cases in my prefecture have risen, but only to 5 people to my knowledge, as of writing this.

BUT! Perhaps most significantly!!! Looks like all schools are being closed until April??? Which means I'm probably going to have an awful lot of free time... All out of my paid holiday, I'd assume
I'll keep ya all posted in the mean time.

Also, as a former resident in Korea, I'd like to let those joking about the north to know that the most likely reason the North hasn't reported any infections is because they don't have the financial means to properly test and screen their citizens. There's a lot of transit between N.K. and China, and if there are over 1500 cases in the South, you can bet the North is worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looks like I might be needing those mask tricks, after all, Mac...

Switzerland now also got it's cases, too be expected really considering Trade and buissness relationships are all over the block.

BUT! Perhaps most significantly!!! Looks like all schools are being closed until April??? Which means I'm probably going to have an awful lot of free time... All out of my paid holiday, I'd assume
I'll keep ya all posted in the mean time.

Weren't your renegades nurglites?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpQNw46Sl24

Replace the winchester with ママ's izakaya, and I'm probably golden...

...or maybe I could finally paint some of those renegades, and appease the plaguefather?

 Big Mac wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
Haha, thanks for the tip big Mac, but the masks I could get hold of aren't nearly high quality enough to survive something like that unfortunately...

I was informed by another source that hot water does kill germs but it also kills the effectiveness of the mask, so the best solution is to use a hair dryer and blow it on hot for 3-4 minutes, and it should be good for reuse.

If you are going to give medical advice please cite sources. If you are wrong and someone re-uses a mask that they think is safe you could get someone killed. A hairdryer for 3-4 minutes on hot is probably about as effective at fighting covid-19 as "sending hopes and prayers" on facebook. While this is a different strain of coronavirus, here is an article describing the temperatures and times required to kill the original SARS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14631830 A quick google search suggests the average maximum temperature on a hair dryer is around 50-60 degrees Celsius so if covid-19 has the same heat tolerances then it would take about 90 minutes of blow drying.

Here's the CDC's guide on extended use and re-use for n95 respirators/masks: https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html The easiest method is using a surgical mask OVER a n95 mask in order to reduce surface contamination.

idk how many times I have to mention this, but there are no masks of any kind out here. I've got one crappy one that I'm hanging onto in case I catch it and have to get to a hospital somehow, just to try and stop myself infecting other people in the worst possible case scenario. I'd love the luxury of double-masking, let alone fancy equipment like that. But it just isn't available. Demand outstrips supply by the millions.

I think it's pretty clear that those comments are presented as hearsay. I appreciate the efforts, and certainly the tone. Calm down.

(ALSO ALSO! Forgot to mention, the graduation ceremony - one of the biggest events in the school calendar - has had special restrictions put in place. Only graduating students and their parents are allowed in. Very unusual. A lot of the younger students are bummed about this.)

 posermcbogus wrote:
idk how many times I have to mention this, but there are no masks of any kind out here. I've got one crappy one that I'm hanging onto in case I catch it and have to get to a hospital somehow, just to try and stop myself infecting other people in the worst possible case scenario. I'd love the luxury of double-masking, let alone fancy equipment like that. But it just isn't available. Demand outstrips supply by the millions.

I think it's pretty clear that those comments are presented as hearsay. I appreciate the efforts, and certainly the tone. Calm down.

(ALSO ALSO! Forgot to mention, the graduation ceremony - one of the biggest events in the school calendar - has had special restrictions put in place. Only graduating students and their parents are allowed in. Very unusual. A lot of the younger students are bummed about this.)

What exactly do you have to work with? It's the SCMP so I have slight doubts about how truly effective it is, but here's a guide on home made masks being used in Hong Kong: https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3050689/how-make-your-own-mask-hong-kong-scientists
Here's a Taiwanese guide that is a bit more involved and required a tailor: https://mothership.sg/2020/02/taiwanese-doctor-cloth-face-mask/

Just buy a British Army military surplus NBC mask off eBay. I've got mine in the cupboard somewhere (the QMS never asked for it back when I left).

 DominayTrix wrote:
If you are going to give medical advice please cite sources. If you are wrong and someone re-uses a mask that they think is safe you could get someone killed.

Maybe if you are seeking out critical medical advice on a forum for toy soldiers, and you got sick, you kind of did it to yourself a little bit, though?

 Ouze wrote:

 DominayTrix wrote:
If you are going to give medical advice please cite sources. If you are wrong and someone re-uses a mask that they think is safe you could get someone killed.

Maybe if you are seeking out critical medical advice on a forum for toy soldiers, and you got sick, you kind of did it to yourself a little bit, though?

First place I always come for medical advice