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 Ouze wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
And we all know who's Number 1 in covid infections and deaths.

In defense of the USA, we are exceptional in all we do: second place is first loser.

USA! USA! USA!

If you're going on a per capita rating for the corona virus the US is far from the worst. That title goes to Switzerland. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-cases-per-capita-chart-countries-2020-3 Also, we really don't know where China falls on the list. There's a really good chance the are massively underreporting their stats.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
And we all know who's Number 1 in covid infections and deaths.

In defense of the USA, we are exceptional in all we do: second place is first loser.

USA! USA! USA!

If you're going on a per capita rating for the corona virus the US is far from the worst. That title goes to Switzerland. https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-cases-per-capita-chart-countries-2020-3 Also, we really don't know where China falls on the list. There's a really good chance the are massively underreporting their stats.

We don't know alot of things considering that some governments (cue florida) don't want to release data, or the lack of testing or or or.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
As far as killing time...I’m on paternity leave from work until the start of June, have a one month old son at home, and have been clearing models out to build the start of his college fund. For reasons I don’t wish to disclose publicly, I’m currently doing this by myself for a few weeks. So I’m a stay at home dad with 24hr parenting, waiting for things to go back to normal (even excluding the virus).

Good luck with the baby. Exhausting but rewarding time.

I started new hobby with oil paintings during the lockdown. Mother got good laugh out of that. She was wondering am I going stir crazy at home doing work from home and unable to meet parents/sister/nieces(usually going 2-3 weekends a month to meet the kids) and there I was having fun painting oil paintings including mother's day present I had kept quiet on the hobby to surprise her so she didn't have any idea I was doing any painting.

Might just as well find positive things and try new things with new time eh?

Time going to get reduced. Boss getting stir crazy thinking work at home isn't that productive and that he doesn't stay where things are in work(would help if he wouldn't just complain about corona 95% of daily meeting times...) so decided next week we work from office again against goverment recommendations. Ah well. Wouldn't surprise if we all get bug sooner or later. Most likely being me catching it on daily train and infect rest. Well boss is the one in biggest risk from age and underlying conditions so if that happens he'll bear the effect of his decision.

edit: unsurprisingly UK went for own app rather than use google/apple ready made api to get centralized database instead. Hopefully finland doesn't go that route.

Like for Like comparisons between countries can be done by using the excess mortality statistic. That is the increase in the number of deaths compared to years without Covid-19. Some of the extra deaths will have bene caused by people having a heart attack and not going to A&E, or increased domestic violence, but most of them will be due to the virus.

Of course if you don't count the deaths or don't release the stats, you've got nothing to compare. It's hard to believe a 1st world democratic government would take such a course of action, though.

In an election year, it really isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it is hard to believe they'd do it, and think they could 'get away with it' and/or hide it, but sadly, it is happening.

Not at all hard to believe

 Alpharius wrote:
In an election year, it really isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it is hard to believe they'd do it, and think they could 'get away with it' and/or hide it, but sadly, it is happening.

Yup. I mean, from their point of view they only need to keep it buried until the day after the votes are cast. Doesn't matter one jot if it all comes out the next day as people can't take back their vote.

So it isn't even like thinking you won't get caught, it's just gambling that you drag it out long enough to the point where it no longer matters. Appeal every court decision, delay until the absolute deadline before you comply with court orders etc.

Dr Jenny Harries, UK deputy CMO, finally concedes to the Health Select Committee that testing policy was led by capacity rather than strategy.

One side effect of the corona lockdown is that a lot of single guys used to going out or ordering in now have to fend for themselves.

This has resulted in a big spike on videogame traffic and tv dinner sales.

So, if you're alone, passing time with video games and living on tv dinners, here's a video for YOU!

https://youtu.be/C-6mI708yWc

nfe wrote:
Dr Jenny Harries, UK deputy CMO, finally concedes to the Health Select Committee that testing policy was led by capacity rather than strategy.

At least our tests worked I guess.

 Azreal13 wrote:

nfe wrote:
Dr Jenny Harries, UK deputy CMO, finally concedes to the Health Select Committee that testing policy was led by capacity rather than strategy.

At least our tests worked I guess.

Oh dear. Colossal cock up there. I know someone who worked on DNA primers for their Biology Bsc, though that was for identifying the presence of demon shrimp.

That the CDC would mess up such a test is quite astonishing. It really highlights the need to get this kind of thing set up as early as possible so these kinds of issues can be identified and fixed ASAP.

 Alpharius wrote:
In an election year, it really isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it is hard to believe they'd do it, and think they could 'get away with it' and/or hide it, but sadly, it is happening.

We've managed to politicize mask-wearing. Which makes it somewhat worthless if everyone isn't doing it.

But the pièce de résistance is obviously how politicized *treatments* have become.

Unfortunately I think we have to own everything that's coming to us. I don't want to use the word 'deserve' because we're talking about deaths. But we all helped create this situation. We let politics into our lives in places where they shouldn't be, and we've treated politics like life and death. And now that ACTUAL life and death situations are here, we're unable to untangle the politics from them.

I wish I could see a solution, but I think this thing is just leading to more fingerpointing and blame. And potentially of a more aggressive nature, given that the stakes are so much higher than with 'political issue X'.

tneva82 wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

If anything that's suspiciously low. US is getting off extremely light especially compared to how slow and half-hearted response to it was. Makes one wonder what kind of number fudging they are doing. But then again one state already banned releasing cause of death so...

You don't have to fudge the numbers if you're not doing legally mandated, free, or easily accessible testing. When Florida coroners leaked that bit, the governor was doing a presser with the Cheeto in Chief.

I said it before, and I'll repeat again: Right now, in the US? It seems that if you're not filthy stinking rich, friends with the President, or directly exposed to someone who died from COVID-there's not easy ways to get tested. For the first time since this all began, I got contacted by my healthcare provider saying they are now offering testing...but it's specifically antibody testing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

We've managed to politicize mask-wearing.

"We" didn't do this. One group did. One group which has consistently been reinforcing their ridiculous narratives thanks to a specific "news" network. One group which has consistently changed the rules whenever things go against them.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

nfe wrote:
Dr Jenny Harries, UK deputy CMO, finally concedes to the Health Select Committee that testing policy was led by capacity rather than strategy.

At least our tests worked I guess.

Oh dear. Colossal cock up there. I know someone who worked on DNA primers for their Biology Bsc, though that was for identifying the presence of demon shrimp.

That the CDC would mess up such a test is quite astonishing. It really highlights the need to get this kind of thing set up as early as possible so these kinds of issues can be identified and fixed ASAP.

Probably same way as UK with it's corona tests that didn't work that it paid millions for.

 gorgon wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
In an election year, it really isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it is hard to believe they'd do it, and think they could 'get away with it' and/or hide it, but sadly, it is happening.

We've managed to politicize mask-wearing. Which makes it somewhat worthless if everyone isn't doing it.

But the pièce de résistance is obviously how politicized *treatments* have become.

Unfortunately I think we have to own everything that's coming to us. I don't want to use the word 'deserve' because we're talking about deaths. But we all helped create this situation. We let politics into our lives in places where they shouldn't be, and we've treated politics like life and death. And now that ACTUAL life and death situations are here, we're unable to untangle the politics from them.

I wish I could see a solution, but I think this thing is just leading to more fingerpointing and blame. And potentially of a more aggressive nature, given that the stakes are so much higher than with 'political issue X'.

Every interaction within society as a whole is political if the society deems itself democratic, the difference is how politics are conducted, it is not uncommon to Find over here opposite Party memebers going out together drinking a beer or helping each other out.
Otoh you got polarized systems which tend to break down society into smaller groups.

tneva82 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

nfe wrote:
Dr Jenny Harries, UK deputy CMO, finally concedes to the Health Select Committee that testing policy was led by capacity rather than strategy.

At least our tests worked I guess.

Oh dear. Colossal cock up there. I know someone who worked on DNA primers for their Biology Bsc, though that was for identifying the presence of demon shrimp.

That the CDC would mess up such a test is quite astonishing. It really highlights the need to get this kind of thing set up as early as possible so these kinds of issues can be identified and fixed ASAP.

Probably same way as UK with it's corona tests that didn't work that it paid millions for.

No, not even slightly.

 Kanluwen wrote:
"We" didn't do this. One group did. One group which has consistently been reinforcing their ridiculous narratives thanks to a specific "news" network. One group which has consistently changed the rules whenever things go against them.

For masks, it's one side. For something else, it's the other side. Go to CNN at any given moment, and it's full of dumb, 'above the fold' opinion pieces catering to and/or fostering outrage on the left. Right now we have:

Analysis: Trump can't make us normal again
Opinion: Why I can live without beef
Opinion: The pandemic is showing why women are better leaders

The first step to getting past this is to take personal responsibility and stop reinforcing the behavior. Blaming the other side for *everything* is how we got a dysfunctional government and society. Things that are holding us back during a health crisis. And things that keep taking this thread off-topic.

 gorgon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"We" didn't do this. One group did. One group which has consistently been reinforcing their ridiculous narratives thanks to a specific "news" network. One group which has consistently changed the rules whenever things go against them.

For masks, it's one side. For something else, it's the other side. Go to CNN at any given moment, and it's full of dumb, 'above the fold' opinion pieces catering to and/or fostering outrage on the left. Right now we have:

Opinion: Why I can live without beef

Wow, what a needlessly controversial, politically charged outrage piece. /s

Can you even imagine if, during one of the other global events that necessitated rationing or abstaining from certain household products, it was decried as political pot-stirring to write an opinion piece talking about how we can live without that thing temporarily?

 gorgon wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
In an election year, it really isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it is hard to believe they'd do it, and think they could 'get away with it' and/or hide it, but sadly, it is happening.

We've managed to politicize mask-wearing. Which makes it somewhat worthless if everyone isn't doing it.

But the pièce de résistance is obviously how politicized *treatments* have become.

Unfortunately I think we have to own everything that's coming to us. I don't want to use the word 'deserve' because we're talking about deaths. But we all helped create this situation. We let politics into our lives in places where they shouldn't be, and we've treated politics like life and death. And now that ACTUAL life and death situations are here, we're unable to untangle the politics from them.

I wish I could see a solution, but I think this thing is just leading to more fingerpointing and blame. And potentially of a more aggressive nature, given that the stakes are so much higher than with 'political issue X'.

You may not want to, but I will. We deserve this. Humanity deserves this. We are only getting out what we have been putting in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
"We" didn't do this. One group did. One group which has consistently been reinforcing their ridiculous narratives thanks to a specific "news" network. One group which has consistently changed the rules whenever things go against them.

For masks, it's one side. For something else, it's the other side. Go to CNN at any given moment, and it's full of dumb, 'above the fold' opinion pieces catering to and/or fostering outrage on the left. Right now we have:

Analysis: Trump can't make us normal again
Opinion: Why I can live without beef
Opinion: The pandemic is showing why women are better leaders

The first step to getting past this is to take personal responsibility and stop reinforcing the behavior. Blaming the other side for *everything* is how we got a dysfunctional government and society. Things that are holding us back during a health crisis. And things that keep taking this thread off-topic.

Pro tip: if it is US news and labelled an opinion piece, ignore it. It is not even sanctioned by the news organisation it comes from as their position.

I have to admit, I imagined that the reason things were so polarized politically in the US was because the Cold War was over, and the stakes for everything were so low. We could afford to look inward and battle internally about the "little stuff" like culture wars. Things are never so petty as when the stakes are so low.

I had hoped that larger stakes would change the way we approach things. However, perhaps the CoronaVirus stakes are still small potatoes as they are not an existential national threat level yet.

Sometimes, I miss the Cold War.... which is a horrible thing to say.

 Easy E wrote:
I have to admit, I imagined that the reason things were so polarized politically in the US was because the Cold War was over, and the stakes for everything were so low. We could afford to look inward and battle internally about the "little stuff" like culture wars. Things are never so petty as when the stakes are so low.

I had hoped that larger stakes would change the way we approach things. However, perhaps the CoronaVirus stakes are still small potatoes as they are not an existential national threat level yet.

Sometimes, I miss the Cold War.... which is a horrible thing to say.

isn't that a bit too rose tinted goggles?

 Kanluwen wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

If anything that's suspiciously low. US is getting off extremely light especially compared to how slow and half-hearted response to it was. Makes one wonder what kind of number fudging they are doing. But then again one state already banned releasing cause of death so...

You don't have to fudge the numbers if you're not doing legally mandated, free, or easily accessible testing. When Florida coroners leaked that bit, the governor was doing a presser with the Cheeto in Chief.

I said it before, and I'll repeat again: Right now, in the US? It seems that if you're not filthy stinking rich, friends with the President, or directly exposed to someone who died from COVID-there's not easy ways to get tested. For the first time since this all began, I got contacted by my healthcare provider saying they are now offering testing...but it's specifically antibody testing.

My experience is completely different. I walked into the outpatient care office at the local hospital back in March and was told I had to be tested for Coronavirus, even though I went in for something completely unrelated. There were other people in the tent outside the emergency room (which acted as the testing site), and they'd already been doing this for days. No one looked like they fit any of your criteria (one guy two chairs down looked like the very stereotype of 'white trash') and the first local death didn't happen until almost two weeks later, so couldn't have been your last bit of criteria.

At the time (and during a followup phone call) I was assured I wouldn't be billed for any of it. Not even the non-Corona ECG they did in passing to check on my actual symptoms.

Now I'm not in a hotspot, but your narrative is completely unrecognizable compared to what I've actually experienced.

 Easy E wrote:
I have to admit, I imagined that the reason things were so polarized politically in the US was because the Cold War was over, and the stakes for everything were so low. We could afford to look inward and battle internally about the "little stuff" like culture wars. Things are never so petty as when the stakes are so low.

I had hoped that larger stakes would change the way we approach things. However, perhaps the CoronaVirus stakes are still small potatoes as they are not an existential national threat level yet.

Sometimes, I miss the Cold War.... which is a horrible thing to say.

I think we're already in a new Cold War...with basically the same players as before. It's just being fought through computer technology more than big proxy wars, space programs and sports. And all the online manipulation is aimed at turning events like pandemics into things that divide rather than unite.

Players might be same but not on same sides and more like 3 or 4 way with US vs others without much in form of real allies.

German virologist talks about potential IFR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrL9QKGQrWk&list=WL&index=46&t=0s

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Pro tip: if it is US news and labelled an opinion piece, ignore it. It is not even sanctioned by the news organisation it comes from as their position.

But of course it still matters. Is it not dangerous to have personalities on a certain network push quack cures because they're technically opinion shows?

By putting obviously slanted opinion pieces 'above the fold' on a website or on your network in a format that looks like a news report, you're sanctioning it. The "Opinion:" disclaimer may make it *unofficial*, but the sanction is implied. It's like saying "no offense, but" and then saying something clearly offensive. The message is still sent.

Bringing this back more on topic, of course there are some dangerous messages involving C-19 on right-wing media. But if I'm being honest and fair, I have to admit that the left-wing tends to push the panic button and spread despair over every little thing coming out of the WH. That may not be equivalent, but all the BLAAARGH isn't necessarily responsible or high-minded behavior either. It's there to get click$.

We have entire generations who seem fundamentally unable to genuinely consider the other side of an argument. To take a breath, put themselves in another's shoes, assume them to be reasonable, and think about how they came to that opinion. It's a real problem, and it's going to keep costing us lives as we bicker over basic public health policies.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I have to admit, I imagined that the reason things were so polarized politically in the US was because the Cold War was over, and the stakes for everything were so low. We could afford to look inward and battle internally about the "little stuff" like culture wars. Things are never so petty as when the stakes are so low.

I had hoped that larger stakes would change the way we approach things. However, perhaps the CoronaVirus stakes are still small potatoes as they are not an existential national threat level yet.

Sometimes, I miss the Cold War.... which is a horrible thing to say.

isn't that a bit too rose tinted goggles?

Absolutely.

It is one of the few perks of being old! Things were better in my day! LOL

 Easy E wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I have to admit, I imagined that the reason things were so polarized politically in the US was because the Cold War was over, and the stakes for everything were so low. We could afford to look inward and battle internally about the "little stuff" like culture wars. Things are never so petty as when the stakes are so low.

I had hoped that larger stakes would change the way we approach things. However, perhaps the CoronaVirus stakes are still small potatoes as they are not an existential national threat level yet.

Sometimes, I miss the Cold War.... which is a horrible thing to say.

isn't that a bit too rose tinted goggles?

Absolutely.

It is one of the few perks of being old! Things were better in my day! LOL

Ha , it payed Off to listen in history classes.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gorgon wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Pro tip: if it is US news and labelled an opinion piece, ignore it. It is not even sanctioned by the news organisation it comes from as their position.

But of course it still matters. Is it not dangerous to have personalities on a certain network push quack cures because they're technically opinion shows?

By putting obviously slanted opinion pieces 'above the fold' on a website or on your network in a format that looks like a news report, you're sanctioning it. The "Opinion:" disclaimer may make it *unofficial*, but the sanction is implied. It's like saying "no offense, but" and then saying something clearly offensive. The message is still sent.

Bringing this back more on topic, of course there are some dangerous messages involving C-19 on right-wing media. But if I'm being honest and fair, I have to admit that the left-wing tends to push the panic button and spread despair over every little thing coming out of the WH. That may not be equivalent, but all the BLAAARGH isn't necessarily responsible or high-minded behavior either. It's there to get click$.

We have entire generations who seem fundamentally unable to genuinely consider the other side of an argument. To take a breath, put themselves in another's shoes, assume them to be reasonable, and think about how they came to that opinion. It's a real problem, and it's going to keep costing us lives as we bicker over basic public health policies.

What you described is Polarisation and it's Problems 101.
The also often feared issue of more direct democratic Systems might i add of course with the charismatic demagogue beeing place 1 .

Also the whole opinion piece thing, is that really what happened with quack remedies? Over here opinion pieces in General Concern cultural and political, Economical or even historical or philosophical opinions on actual matters and visions of a future but certainly not medical pushes for "remedies" .

 Alpharius wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

I seem to recall Italy in its darkest days was about 950 deaths per day. Did it go above 1,000 at some point?

And with the 'partial reopening' that's ongoing and increasing?

Here in the USA, that daily death toll is probably going to go up, not down.

Exactly. Things went about as bad as it can get in Spain and Italy but the trend is downwards now at least. I feel like the US pandemic is just building up a head of steam right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

I seem to recall Italy in its darkest days was about 950 deaths per day. Did it go above 1,000 at some point?

It's passed 2,000 per day at some points and the expectation is that it could hit 3,000 per day in June. It's getting worse, not better.

I was talking about Italy. I think everyone understands the US is the epicentre now. Seems like about one third of all cases in the world of COVID are in the States right now.

Prof Fergusson resigns after breaking lockdown guidance to meet married lover... Don't think it's relevant really, as that in and of itself is not a reason to discredit his work, as some are suggesting, but it is quite funny.