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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If you’ve never seen retail customers abuse staff, I don’t know what to tell you. Even before the pandemic, even before the advent of culture war nonsense, retail workers were inundated with abuse.

There is absolutely no way the global pandemic and economic uncertainty reduced the abuse.

There is an underlying culture in the US where retail employees are not seen as 'real people' and an unspoken attitude that they do not have the same rights to being treated ethically. How it has cropped up in this pandemic shows that on top of the other obvious issues very direct risks to human health can occur when this attitude intersects with societal unrest.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If you’ve never seen retail customers abuse staff, I don’t know what to tell you. Even before the pandemic, even before the advent of culture war nonsense, retail workers were inundated with abuse.

There is absolutely no way the global pandemic and economic uncertainty reduced the abuse.

There is an underlying culture in the US where retail employees are not seen as 'real people' and an unspoken attitude that they do not have the same rights to being treated ethically. How it has cropped up in this pandemic shows that on top of the other obvious issues very direct risks to human health can occur when this attitude intersects with societal unrest.

The "essential" people are basically the expendable ones. Healthcare workers, retail workers, USPS, food service, etc.

We started trying to hire a new person where I work about two weeks in to the Pandemic. We just got somebody hired last week. It was that hard to find somebody to work in a pizza place right now for minimum wage. Nobody wants to be an "essential" employee right now.

 Original Timmy wrote:


Iv been reading your gak for over 100+ pages of this thread and to me you are part of this problem we have at the moment in the UK, you are not willing to help other people out as you are to selfish.

Why are you so against anything that will help track and trace or prevent the spread of this disease? and your usual excuse of "My liberties/freedom" doesnt cut it as your freedom isnt worth a fraction of someones life so get over yourself

So put me on ignore if you're unable to fathom non herd thinking. Nothing I've been opposed to or expressed scepticism for has been proven to save any lives, so you can ease off the false dilemmas. I don't want to be on any track and trace app, for a bunch of reasons. At the start they assured us any participation would be voluntary, now they're talking about forcing people to use it for fear of not being able to buy basic food supplies. that is unethical.


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 r_squared wrote:


I feel that it rather does. Your argument is all about the infringement of your personal freedoms, regardless of the reasoning. These people who abuse my wife feel the same way. Whilst I'm sure you would not do the same as them, they are unable to fathom any infringement on their liberty and react with aggression when denied.
It's a theme of self entitlement and the elevation of the self above all others which is the problem here.

I agree that the Govts app that based on centralisation was an absolute disaster in terms of any data protection and I would have had difficulty using it, but to dimiss all apps and basic attempts to track and trace based on your own personal belief in freedom is extremely selfish.

So I re-iterate, you are not compelled to comply, you can stay home and do your shopping if you can't bring yourself to provide basic information, or attempt to protect others. Please do, if others who thought like you did so, perhaps my wife wouldn't have to face so much abuse.

No, it doesnt. Whats your implication? that I'm somehow like those people because I don't want to scan a phone to enter a shop? that is fallacious in that it assumes that those people and me are doing 2 totally different things based on the same reason, and therefore attempting to paint me as a bad person because of their actions. Theres no aggression, I'm simply pointing out its flaws.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:


Iv been reading your gak for over 100+ pages of this thread and to me you are part of this problem we have at the moment in the UK, you are not willing to help other people out as you are to selfish.

Why are you so against anything that will help track and trace or prevent the spread of this disease? and your usual excuse of "My liberties/freedom" doesnt cut it as your freedom isnt worth a fraction of someones life so get over yourself

So put me on ignore if you're unable to fathom non herd thinking. Nothing I've been opposed to or expressed scepticism for has been proven to save any lives..

Except, the track and trace system that was the key to South Korea managing its outbreak so well did save lives and the scientific community seems to largely be in agreement that such a system saves lives (assuming it's set up properly). So no, you're wrong, you have expressed scepticism about systems that could be used to save lives. Bizarrely you've done it in the name of "ethics". Your "ethical" stance is that you won't inconvenience yourself even if it potentially helps keep hundreds of other people safe.

I get the concern that the system used may not be effective enough because of flaws in how it's set up, or concerns that any laws put in place would not be repealed after the crisis is over but that's not what you're saying. Given that there are plenty of ways to buy food nowadays without even leaving your house it's also not unethical to make leaving your contact details as a requirement for entering a shop. Even if you have to use a physical shop I think you'd be hard-pushed to make a convincing argument that having to leave your contact details with them in order to potentially help hundreds of people in the face of a verified public health threat is less ethical than refusing to do so.

Yeah, except last week it was 'give your name and number to till staff' and now it's 'scan in on this app or be forbidden from purchasing food'. Mission creep much? Voluntary. That's the key word. What you're now talking about is mandatory. South Korea can make their citizens do whatever they like. They also published people's personal details. Should we do that too?

 Matt Swain wrote:

Even tho a big part of me sees the right and need of most of these covid measures, I just can't make myself to believe they'll go away once the threat is gone. More privacy permanently eliminated, more rights overruled. More power to the police and surveillance state.

At the same time we made it through World War 2 with even harsher restrictions and more monitoring and reporting of people.
I think that the terrorist laws are a tricky area because the war on terror never fully ended. It sort of started against one specific major group, however the nature of the terrorist cells is that once you smack one down, another two seem to arise to fill the gap. So you end up with a rolling series of smaller fights against these groups. It's a difficult situation because there's no clear cut "end" like there is with a formal war or a battle against a pandemic.


Thing is, in theory, at some stage we reach a point where we end the Covid 19 battle. This might be when we've a vaccine; track and traced it to oblivion (unlikely); reach herd immunity status etc... Ergo there is a rough end-point at which we can consider relaxation of some of the measures taken. You don't need a tracking app once there's no track and trace system; you don't need to wear a mask when you don't need too etc... Though we might also see some social changes, eg social pressure to wear masks if you have a cold/cough condition. We might see increased handwashing slip into society. Meanwhile things like screens at shops might remain, but at the same time a big part of getting people back into old-habits will be retailers wanting customers to "relax" again. Removing wash stations and screens alongside reduced monitoring entering the store and no more limits would all combine to relax the average shopper back into slower browsing habits. Things retailers want to happen in order to increase the chance of you spending more.

Meanwhile store loyalty cards and such will remain.

Some track and trace software might even improve - my sister uses this on her phone along with her boyfriend all the time. In theory the only one tracking their movements is the satellite and a few people on their watch list. The whole idea being that if they are out on a ride on their own and fall off someone might notice or at least has a rough idea what region they are in if they aren't seen/can't be contacted for an excessive length of time.


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 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yeah, except last week it was 'give your name and number to till staff' and now it's 'scan in on this app or be forbidden from purchasing food'. Mission creep much? Voluntary. That's the key word. What you're now talking about is mandatory. South Korea can make their citizens do whatever they like. They also published people's personal details. Should we do that too?

In theory you don't need to publish peoples personal details, you just need to publish that Corona was detected at X places on Y dates - if you didn't get abing on your app to self isolate and you were in those locations at that time then self isolate.

Now now, the ethical nature of the concern is valid, the scientific community rarely regards ethical questions in many subdivisions accurately because it rarely comes up in their fields beeing more focused on the practical implications of their respective fields. (just an issue with the general specialist approach academia developped, which can be remedied if one is aware of it.)

Ehtically the issue lies within the rather absolutistic nature of controll such a APP would bring and should freedom of movement and privacy concerns be disregarded due to crisis situations.

Especially legaly and the underlying moral systems such precedents Set can be massive issues.
Emergency rights f.e. have a rather tainted history in switzerland, "vollmachtenregiemes" as they are called have often remained in place long after the initial crisis subsided. Mind you this state is a Totalitarian "quasi responsible" dictatorship, but it is totalitarian.

However, considering how much google and consort know about us, there shouldn't be any issue if you use Track and trace with localised data saving that automatically deletes its data points after a month or two.

A proper track and trace system with a good app will be very useful when the pandemic after Covid-19 begins.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
A proper track and trace system with a good app will be very useful when the pandemic after Covid-19 begins.

yes, allbeit i wonder , why wasn't that something not done allready?

I mean i get it that governments are slow to adopt such means but especially over here , mountain rescuing and weather apps have basically existed since the first Apps came out, meanwhile something like this which also can occure nothing thought to it?

Likely because we've not needed them in decades.

Previous SARS outbreaks never really left China/Asia in a big way to the west, they got here, but in very small numbers that were very easily contained and treated. Containment at their end was good enough and swift enough to shut down its global transmission.

Meanwhile things like swine and bird flu never really hit big population centres and were more rural diseases. Shifts in attitude and biosecurity at farms resolved many of them and shut them down. They basically only impacted rural workers and those in close proximity to livestock. So the general population was pretty safe from them.



Corona spread fast the world over, aided by its sneaky 1 week incubation period when it can still pass itself on person to person with no one the wiser that they've got it for a week or so.
Basically it escaped China/Asia and containment measures in many other nations were geared up for such a fast outbreak nor such a widespread one. We never invested into developing tracking apps because we never really needed them outside of far more small scale tracking setups. Heck we've never needed such a system during the lifecycle of the mobile phone as a technology, let alone as a mass market technology.

Countries typically only invest heavily into non-essential elements when they are affluent and have money to burn and as of late we've sort of jumped one recession to another. So governments weren't feeling overly blessed with budgets. When that happens planning and prep for disasters can get pushed and kicked further and further down the road because you don't need it and other things for health matters get the money first.
Of course some nations, like the USA, can also have disproportionate resource allocation in their system (eg vast amounts going into the military) which can tax other segments - again limited budgets means less money for the future. It was easy for Trump to shut down the infectious disease disaster team/setup because it hadn't been "needed".



Of course we need it all yesterday today, but we didn't last year. And its not just disease outbreak, yo ucan bet there are multiple other major disaster relief systems and preparation systems that could be developed "just in case" which aren't because the events they are linked too are so rare that they are just not a high priority.

yet a track and trace with decentralized data saving system isn't that hard to create and unilaterally aplpicable and a cheap aswell as effective meassure.

Not Online!!! wrote:
yet a track and trace with decentralized data saving system isn't that hard to create and unilaterally aplpicable and a cheap aswell as effective meassure.

Aye and we already have them, so how the government failed to make one and how its now postponed until sometime in winter is beyond me. We've the technology out there; multiple industry examples etc...

Then again Epic has millions upon millions and still can't make an online shop with a shopping cart feature.


Sometimes projects just have the wrong people or the wrong priorities or the wrong politics all wrapped up in them.

Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark

All we need now is some wearable tech......

 Knockagh wrote:
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark

All we need now is some wearable tech......

laughs in beeing the government and the governments monopoly of force aswell as the subject of the government.


Until the realisation Steps in that i am underpaid for a 3rd of the Function, not paid for another 3rd and finnally got the short Stick on the last 3rd.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
yet a track and trace with decentralized data saving system isn't that hard to create and unilaterally aplpicable and a cheap aswell as effective meassure.

Aye and we already have them, so how the government failed to make one and how its now postponed until sometime in winter is beyond me. We've the technology out there; multiple industry examples etc...

Then again Epic has millions upon millions and still can't make an online shop with a shopping cart feature.


Sometimes projects just have the wrong people or the wrong priorities or the wrong politics all wrapped up in them.

This pretty much sums up a lot of issues, the upper Part of beeing ignorant torwards improvement the lower Part of beeing resistant to change /corrupt or flat out incompetently handled.

tneva82 wrote:
Numbers don't lie. Sweden has lot more cases per population than denmark and finland for example.

Sweden took it's route. Fine. But bear the effect with pride rather than complain. Because sweden's policy there's now fresh corona wave in north-west finland. That's why swede's are not welcome. Get the corona into control and then you are. But as long as you put economy first that's not happening.

Sweden CHOSE to have their people not be able to go to many countries and many countries blocking sweden as country go. Sweden's choice. Don't complain about your own decisions

That's like complaining you are broke after throwing everything to roulette and losing. Your choice, don't complain about results

Why are Finns and Danes still allowed to go to Sweden then? Because it's inconsistent points-scoring populism. It doesn't primarily have anything to do with our failure (and it is, currently, a failure) but rather with cheap domestic populism.

And, again, if "numbers don't lie" then why are people from Malmö not allowed to go to Copenhagen, but Copenhageners going to Malmö is A-OK? Because it's all bs. That's not Sweden's decision, that's Denmark being populist.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Numbers don't lie. Sweden has lot more cases per population than denmark and finland for example.

Sweden took it's route. Fine. But bear the effect with pride rather than complain. Because sweden's policy there's now fresh corona wave in north-west finland. That's why swede's are not welcome. Get the corona into control and then you are. But as long as you put economy first that's not happening.

Sweden CHOSE to have their people not be able to go to many countries and many countries blocking sweden as country go. Sweden's choice. Don't complain about your own decisions

That's like complaining you are broke after throwing everything to roulette and losing. Your choice, don't complain about results

Why are Finns and Danes still allowed to go to Sweden then? Because it's inconsistent points-scoring populism. It doesn't primarily have anything to do with our failure (and it is, currently, a failure) but rather with cheap domestic populism.

And, again, if "numbers don't lie" then why are people from Malmö not allowed to go to Copenhagen, but Copenhageners going to Malmö is A-OK? Because it's all bs. That's not Sweden's decision, that's Denmark being populist.

and yet the WHO also rated sweden as especially at risk for resurgence.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Numbers don't lie. Sweden has lot more cases per population than denmark and finland for example.

Sweden took it's route. Fine. But bear the effect with pride rather than complain. Because sweden's policy there's now fresh corona wave in north-west finland. That's why swede's are not welcome. Get the corona into control and then you are. But as long as you put economy first that's not happening.

Sweden CHOSE to have their people not be able to go to many countries and many countries blocking sweden as country go. Sweden's choice. Don't complain about your own decisions

That's like complaining you are broke after throwing everything to roulette and losing. Your choice, don't complain about results

Why are Finns and Danes still allowed to go to Sweden then? Because it's inconsistent points-scoring populism. It doesn't primarily have anything to do with our failure (and it is, currently, a failure) but rather with cheap domestic populism.

And, again, if "numbers don't lie" then why are people from Malmö not allowed to go to Copenhagen, but Copenhageners going to Malmö is A-OK? Because it's all bs. That's not Sweden's decision, that's Denmark being populist.

and yet the WHO also rated sweden as especially at risk for resurgence.

And then retracted the statement a few hours later.

Look, I'm not debating the pros and cons of the Swedish response, I'm pointing out that it's entirely reasonable to react when another country does something stupid, and that it remains stupid no matter how many times someone calls it "petulant". The same way that it is entirely reasonable for Denmark, Norway and Finland to be sceptical of Sweden right now provided they are so in a manner that makes sense rather than populist bs. If Swedes can't go to Denmark, why can Danes go to Sweden? It makes 0 sense other than as political grandstanding. THAT is what I object to, and what is being labelled as "petulant".

I guess this is technically politics, so I'll stop.

Lmao at the chuckleheads in the thread panicking over "THE SLOW DESCENT INTO TOTALITARIANISM" and clutching their pearls at potentially being made to write down their name and address to enter certain private properties in order to make use of their services in the midst of a pandemic with over 10mil confirmed cases and about a 5% death rate, while completely ignoring extrajudicial police killings, politicians muzzling scientists who don't agree with them, rampant government corruption, historical revisionism, blaming foreign actors and insidious (fictional) left-wing cabals for society's ills is like... wowaweewa.

Let's be honest. If the State wants your personal data? They'll already have it. Proxies and burner hardware etc etc etc don't really get you very far at all. If the cops can bust people using that stuff, what the hell do you think the intelligence services can do? The real *real* reason that they aren't doing it now is the same as it's been since snooping on the plebs began. There simply isn't the manpower to spy on your entire population. You aren't interesting enough to the government for them to bother.



I've been keeping out of this thread because MY WORD. There are some really gak TAKES up in here. I'm really, truly convinced, that for those howling for "evidence", nothing will actually change their minds. We've got WHO stats that are truly grim. We've had footage and accounts from front-line medical theaters that is utterly harrowing. Entire sub-continents have gone into lockdown, starting one of the worst financial lowpoints in a century. Some of the most logic-defyingly stubborn governments in recent memory have been forced to totally backtrack and eat the humblest of pies. Second waves, and first waves that were never really properly controlled are now springing up across the world, from Texas to Leicester, Southern Italy and Seoul. I really do think that the only thing that could possibly persuade some people of the real severity of this situation was only if they themselves spun around and decided they were still right all along, just in a different way.

Let's be very real. There probably won't ever actually be reliable stats on this ever. At best, we'll have close estimates. Even then, it'll really only be clear after the worst of this has totally, thoroughly passed us over. The West truly jumped on a gakky horse with the whole "well, China is probably massaging their numbers, too, so..." Western nations really had a clean run at this for the most part, but instead failed to act and turned it (insanely) into a politics game.

Here in East Asia, we've been living in the shadow of the virus for 6 months. I don't know about you fellas complaining about having to possibly give your name and some contact details, but I imagine that you're all big enough boys to be able to do it a little faster than me, writing in about 4 different writing systems if I occasionally have to do it.

...it's really not that big of a deal. It's really interesting to me to imagine what the whingers and moaners here would have been doing in other times of crisis and emergency when people were asked to make sacrifices for the overall betterment of their fellow man.
I've been working all through this. Even when my area was the worst per 100 people in the entire country, we were at work. The bloke who sits opposite me at work has a pretty compromised immune system. He's a right laugh, but for months he's been on edge.
Kids have only just come back in the last 2 weeks. People are only just starting to come out of their homes in their free time now. We've yet to see how it will pan out. It could well be a disaster. Tokyo is already not in great shape. I traveled through Osaka a week ago, and I've never seen Kansai people look more miserable, living with the constant vigilance against the virus that we all have to constantly maintain. It's exhausting. There was never the luxury of a lockdown here. Some stuff stayed open, other stuff went out of business because of lack of customers. One thing I think we have gotten right since the start in Japan is that the people here are responsible enough, and self-aware enough to protect themselves, and also those around them, even if...

...this'll shock some of you to your core...

...it means a minor inconvenience. Just imagine. Being that civically minded. Like, actually giving a feth about the well-being of those around you, even if they are strangers. Doing what you can. Accepting that there is a problem, it's not completely understood, but listening to those who've Mad that, isn't it. Almost like it's worked pretty well, especially compared to some countries.

What's really worrying is that, in a seemingly desperate attempt to get ratings back on track, a number of politicians in the West are trying to just give the "Give me convenience or give me death!" crowd. The lockdown genie is out of the bottle now, and...

...I'm really concerned for the wellbeing of the people that I love. I really hope that all of you take care.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Numbers don't lie. Sweden has lot more cases per population than denmark and finland for example.

Sweden took it's route. Fine. But bear the effect with pride rather than complain. Because sweden's policy there's now fresh corona wave in north-west finland. That's why swede's are not welcome. Get the corona into control and then you are. But as long as you put economy first that's not happening.

Sweden CHOSE to have their people not be able to go to many countries and many countries blocking sweden as country go. Sweden's choice. Don't complain about your own decisions

That's like complaining you are broke after throwing everything to roulette and losing. Your choice, don't complain about results

Why are Finns and Danes still allowed to go to Sweden then? Because it's inconsistent points-scoring populism. It doesn't primarily have anything to do with our failure (and it is, currently, a failure) but rather with cheap domestic populism.

And, again, if "numbers don't lie" then why are people from Malmö not allowed to go to Copenhagen, but Copenhageners going to Malmö is A-OK? Because it's all bs. That's not Sweden's decision, that's Denmark being populist.

and yet the WHO also rated sweden as especially at risk for resurgence.

And then retracted the statement a few hours later.

Look, I'm not debating the pros and cons of the Swedish response, I'm pointing out that it's entirely reasonable to react when another country does something stupid, and that it remains stupid no matter how many times someone calls it "petulant". The same way that it is entirely reasonable for Denmark, Norway and Finland to be sceptical of Sweden right now provided they are so in a manner that makes sense rather than populist bs. If Swedes can't go to Denmark, why can Danes go to Sweden? It makes 0 sense other than as political grandstanding. THAT is what I object to, and what is being labelled as "petulant".

I guess this is technically politics, so I'll stop.

now now, i never said that you were wrong
I am just saying there are valid reasons which could justify such an reaction, but considering as you stated with denmarks stance f.e. i feel like that is nonsense, because if you get the virus from your own traveling fellow citizens or from strangers that are visiting your own country doesn't matter in the least now does.

So they get everyone's contacts. They get an alert. Then what? They look when the person visited, but did they go around the whole shop, or just one aisle? do they contact everyone who was in the shop that day? Only after that person came in? The people who shopped the day after? 2 days after? Do all the staff who were present have to self isolate or only the one who served them? how will the know who that was? everyone will be self isolating for the rest of their lives. This is why I oppose it. Nothing to do with 'totalitarianism' (a word I don't believe I've ever used in reference to this issue). But because it's just stupid. simply, in a word. Making out like it's all for some common good doesn't change the fact that it's useless bluster, rolled out to make the people whom those same institutions crippled with fear in the first place, feel a little safer. A duvet to hide under from the monster.
Once you realise that we aren't going to app, or one way supermarket system away this virus, you realise that the best thing to do is just go about your life, taking reasonable and practical precautions wherever you can, and you'll be much happier for it.

In theory if the whole nation self isolated for 2 weeks the virus would be a non-issue. Those who have it would be well known and could be treated; those who don't have it would be able to get on with their lives.

We can't really do that however, so track and trace is the next best. Instead of everyone having to self isolate only those who might have been exposed are forced to self isolate for two weeks. It massively shuts down the potential of the virus to spread.

Masks and handwashing and social distancing further helps reduce potential spread, but its not a sure solution. They help reduce the impact of someone who is a carrier from spreading the disease, but it will still spread. So you lockdown those who are exposed for a short period of time and that shuts down its ability to spread fully.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
do they contact everyone who was in the shop that day?

yeah, tbh I think this is completely reasonable. Additionally, it'll let customers who were in the shop that day try to assess how at risk they are.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Do all the staff who were present have to self isolate or only the one who served them?

I don't think it's unreasonable to try to protect the staff who are most at risk personally, and by being infected, would potentially cause more infections. If staff cannot be tested, cannot be supplied with adequate protective equipment, then I think it's perfectly reasonably that they should self-quaratine, if they've potentially been exposed to the virus, in the same way as medical staff, or any other "essential" workers might. It's what's been happening here. It's not fantastic, but none of this situation is. Just working in a shop does not mean that you deserve to be regularly exposed to a potentially life-threatening illness.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
everyone will be self isolating for the rest of their lives.

This is utter hyperbole. I don't believe for a minute that you actually think that the current situation will last for the rest of the population at large's life. Neither do I. In real terms, I hope this whole thing will be short-lived.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
This is why I oppose it. Nothing to do with 'totalitarianism' (a word I don't believe I've ever used in reference to this issue). But because it's just stupid. simply, in a word. Making out like it's all for some common good doesn't change the fact that it's useless bluster, rolled out to make the people whom those same institutions crippled with fear in the first place, feel a little safer.

The same institutions that told you all there was absolutely nothing to worry about for like 2 months before the first wave? The same institutions desperate for everyone to go back to work in the hopes that the economy will just spring back into life? The same institutions that are losing money on oil, on wearhouses, on missed public events, taxes ad infinitum? Please be more specific, which institutions are actually enjoying this whole thing?

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Once you realise that we aren't going to app, or one way supermarket system away this virus, you realise that the best thing to do is just go about your life, taking reasonable and practical precautions wherever you can, and you'll be much happier for it.

Reasonable and practical precautions such as social distancing in public spaces and logging the places you've been, perchance?

Can we all agree to put QAR on ignore so the thread can move in a productive direction? He/she is essentially trolling at this point: posting deliberately contrary viewpoints and repeating falsehoods ad nauseam with any sort of logical chain thrown by the wayside. IMO it may not violate rule 1 in letter but it certainly does in spirit.

We banned politics because one or two posters were doing that exact same thing. The only solution is to ban discussion of pandemics.

done

No, there is another solution where we cut out the problem elements. We didn't try that before and it has now become a problem elsewhere. We could ban this thread, and it would crop up again somewhere else.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Can we all agree to put QAR on ignore so the thread can move in a productive direction? He/she is essentially trolling at this point: posting deliberately contrary viewpoints and repeating falsehoods ad nauseam with any sort of logical chain thrown by the wayside. IMO it may not violate rule 1 in letter but it certainly does in spirit.

Sorry, am I spoiling your epistemic bubble?


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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
No, there is another solution where we cut out the problem elements. We didn't try that before and it has now become a problem elsewhere. We could ban this thread, and it would crop up again somewhere else.

Yup, just cancel culture your way out of hearing differing opinions so you can gorge on your groupthink. ignorance is bliss.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
No, there is another solution where we cut out the problem elements. We didn't try that before and it has now become a problem elsewhere. We could ban this thread, and it would crop up again somewhere else.

Dakka does not ban bad faith posters! Never, no matter how disruptive they are to the site and its reputation! How dare you!

 posermcbogus wrote:

Reasonable and practical precautions such as social distancing in public spaces and logging the places you've been, perchance?

Absolutely. but not forcing people to comply through fear of not being able to buy food.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
No, there is another solution where we cut out the problem elements. We didn't try that before and it has now become a problem elsewhere. We could ban this thread, and it would crop up again somewhere else.

Dakka does not ban bad faith posters! Never, no matter how disruptive they are to the site and its reputation! How dare you!

We as a community are capable of ignoring them ourselves, Dakka has provided tools to facilitate that. And I think in a thread discussing a topic with a massive number of lives being lost it is worth such a small effort.