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2020/02/10 17:37:49
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
It's not optimized to take advantage of any tides. Must have made a lot of deep strike charges in this tournament.
I'd guess it's probably taking heavy advantage of Tide of Shadows.
The more I look at the list the more it grows on me (and I'm fairly skeptical of Paladins!). I think that something like this and the 65-man PAGK lists are going to be our two main archetypes.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/10 17:48:03
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/02/10 20:35:38
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
It's not optimized to take advantage of any tides. Must have made a lot of deep strike charges in this tournament.
I'd guess it's probably taking heavy advantage of Tide of Shadows.
The more I look at the list the more it grows on me (and I'm fairly skeptical of Paladins!). I think that something like this and the 65-man PAGK lists are going to be our two main archetypes.
10 man paladin I think certainly will see a lot of play. The only issue on that compared to msu is it costs you practically 8 mortal wounds a turn. This list even includes 2 5 man paladins. So we are looking at an MSU list doing 16ish more mortals a turn compared to this...I just don't see how that is going to compare favorably. I think it's really just ITC scoring that encourages lists like this.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/10 23:08:39
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
So, BroChamp with the new relic sword and hammerhand as a cheapo support HQ? Wounds Knights on a 3+ with Hammerhand (can obviously run something else and still have what is essentially a Thunder Hammer hitting on 2+).
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2020/02/11 00:05:27
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
It's not optimized to take advantage of any tides. Must have made a lot of deep strike charges in this tournament.
I'd guess it's probably taking heavy advantage of Tide of Shadows.
The more I look at the list the more it grows on me (and I'm fairly skeptical of Paladins!). I think that something like this and the 65-man PAGK lists are going to be our two main archetypes.
Seconded, the list looks strange.
I wonder about the initial setup of the units.
There are 6 Strike squads, three with the gate and three with the vortex.
I would deep strike the vortex units and set up the gate units regularly in turn 1.
The Paladin units have hammer-hand and so will be rather immobile on the board. The enemy will concentrate fire on them. If such a unit is set up regularly in turn 1, the enemy may try to withdraw his units from its fire range (24 + 5 = 29'').
Librarian and Chaplain are mandatory, while I would never use a named character.
Could somebody enlighten me about Voldus?
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
It's not optimized to take advantage of any tides. Must have made a lot of deep strike charges in this tournament.
I'd guess it's probably taking heavy advantage of Tide of Shadows.
The more I look at the list the more it grows on me (and I'm fairly skeptical of Paladins!). I think that something like this and the 65-man PAGK lists are going to be our two main archetypes.
Seconded, the list looks strange.
I wonder about the initial setup of the units.
There are 6 Strike squads, three with the gate and three with the vortex.
I would deep strike the vortex units and set up the gate units regularly in turn 1.
The Paladin units have hammer-hand and so will be rather immobile on the board. The enemy will concentrate fire on them. If such a unit is set up regularly in turn 1, the enemy may try to withdraw his units from its fire range (24 + 5 = 29'').
Librarian and Chaplain are mandatory, while I would never use a named character.
Could somebody enlighten me about Voldus?
Well, it seems this highlights the differences between merely theorycrafting + mathhammer vs first-hand tournament play and just getting the job done with the units you've chosen on the day(s). The 6-0 victory is nothing to sneeze at.
Lawrence usually breaks down his tournament experiences soon after he gets back - so we'll probably see a video of his GK army and how they went in an actually tournament-level playing field within the week or so.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 11:18:02
2020/02/11 12:30:59
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Well, it seems this highlights the differences between merely theorycrafting + mathhammer vs first-hand tournament play and just getting the job done with the units you've chosen on the day(s). The 6-0 victory is nothing to sneeze at.
Seconded.
But before I bring an army to the battle field, theory-crafting and math-hammer is what I do rather extensively.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 12:31:13
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
The Paladin blocks aren't immobile at all; he's got a bunch of potential sources of Gate of Infinity for them if he needs them. The Strike Squads don't have to gate themselves.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2020/02/11 19:37:35
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
It's not optimized to take advantage of any tides. Must have made a lot of deep strike charges in this tournament.
I'd guess it's probably taking heavy advantage of Tide of Shadows.
The more I look at the list the more it grows on me (and I'm fairly skeptical of Paladins!). I think that something like this and the 65-man PAGK lists are going to be our two main archetypes.
Seconded, the list looks strange.
I wonder about the initial setup of the units.
There are 6 Strike squads, three with the gate and three with the vortex.
I would deep strike the vortex units and set up the gate units regularly in turn 1.
The Paladin units have hammer-hand and so will be rather immobile on the board. The enemy will concentrate fire on them. If such a unit is set up regularly in turn 1, the enemy may try to withdraw his units from its fire range (24 + 5 = 29'').
Librarian and Chaplain are mandatory, while I would never use a named character.
Could somebody enlighten me about Voldus?
Voldus is a strong beatstick and can also bring 3 powers and reroll 1's aura. Brings a lot to the table but not sure he is mandatory though. The 3 powers is nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I like this list.
Brigade
GM w Psycannon and Relic blade
BC w Psycannon and NFH Libby w Relic casting and SB
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 20:07:05
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/11 20:25:05
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
This is a mechanized list I built before the FAQ for a casual league I'm playing in. It is definitely not optimized for tournament play. To be frank, I wanted a list that included by Vortimer Pattern LR since it is one of the models I am the most proud of. I was hoping it might have a chance of being decent with the Tide of Shadows, but with the new FAQ, I'm pretty sure it simply won't survive the anti-armour firepower that most lists can put out in turn one.
I use Crowe and Corteaz to accompany squads in the razorbacks, (Crowe with his purifiers of course), Draigo, the Apothecary and the Paladins in the LR. Voldus and the other two squads can cover stuff, but I want Voldus close enough to the Land Raider to be able to pull off the Edict on turn one to give it an additional move if required. Not sure how well this will work in practice, as if I get to close, an opponent might be able to wrap me before I can disembark.
Just wanted to post my two cents, and a bad list for the competatives to pull apart at their leisure :-)
A brigade would certainly be a viable option - with no ''eggs in one basket'' Paladin unit.
A brigade is good for most Marine factions because their HQs tend to be taxes beyond the first one or two. In our case I think three Battalions is far better than a Brigade since our HQs are so good.
2020/02/12 14:24:36
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
A brigade would certainly be a viable option - with no ''eggs in one basket'' Paladin unit.
A brigade is good for most Marine factions because their HQs tend to be taxes beyond the first one or two. In our case I think three Battalions is far better than a Brigade since our HQs are so good.
Good but rather expensive unless you field some tanks with attached Techmarines.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
A brigade would certainly be a viable option - with no ''eggs in one basket'' Paladin unit.
A brigade is good for most Marine factions because their HQs tend to be taxes beyond the first one or two. In our case I think three Battalions is far better than a Brigade since our HQs are so good.
For you really think marine hqs are taxes beyond 2? Captains, lieutenants, chaplains, librarians, these are all good hq options that have a lot of good usage in a marine force.
As for grey knight hqs I agree they are all pretty useful. I find I keep going back to chaplain librarian for my force though.
2020/02/12 15:29:48
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
For you really think marine hqs are taxes beyond 2? Captains, lieutenants, chaplains, librarians, these are all good hq options that have a lot of good usage in a marine force.
As for grey knight hqs I agree they are all pretty useful. I find I keep going back to chaplain librarian for my force though.
Even with the new litanies, or because of them (DAMN 3+), I haven't found the Chaplains to be world breakers. I'll take one to accompany some Centurions, but other than that those 100ish points are better spent elsewhere. Never found lieutenants particularly useful, I've only used them when I needed to fill out another HQ and sat them with some Dev squads. Caps with their re-roll aura is good of course, but once you have an aura you don't need extras. Libbys are, well Libbys, they're useful.
So, in my Marine list, I'm always going to want a Cap and a Libby, beyond that, their HQs are mostly niche, if you have some squads that will benefit from one, great. But they don't beg to be included because they themselves are awesome, like the GK do.
When I'm building a double Battalion SM list, I constantly find myself seeing my third or fourth HQ as a tax, trying to maximize it's usefulness, but wishing I could spend those points on something else. Meanwhile, when I build a GK list, I'm constantly trying to make sure I don't sink too many points into the HQs, because they are so blatantly awesome. Heck, there aren't that many factions where you actually see a Supreme command detachment show up in tournaments, the GK is one of those.
2020/02/12 19:38:48
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/12 20:00:22
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
I feel like if GK had access to chaplain dreads - it would really elevate them to top teir marines. Chaplains are so important in GK army but also kind of suck. lol.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/13 04:19:57
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Waking Dreamer wrote: I'm curious, with the experiences and discussions of GK players here regarding the PA4 rules, what are your thoughts on our "ranking / tier-level", compared to the other SM Chapter with supplements / PA4 rules:
^ By the looks of things many (non GK players?), STILL think GK are below every other SM chapter (except SW/DW who are still waiting for their upgrades).
We'll just have to prove them wrong then
In seriousness, I have no idea. I think the army is going to be similar to GSC when it came out and have a decently high skill cap but also be easy to lose with. It's definitely not Iron Hands tier though; and alot will depend on your opponent's list. Personally, I think it's being ranked low by current or potential GK players who still want to be the underdog and have their wins attributed to "skill".
I was having some success before hand, so I might be biased, but I think we have a lot of good tools to win. I'm so far really impressed with how my stuff has done lately, though I'm still not quite ready to put down Grey Knights when registering for competitive events. But it might happen, since I've been really happy with the performance of my GK lists and much less happy with my post-codex Sisters lists. I'm kind of waiting to see how Guard comes out of PA to make the call.
I think we're also definitely below all Space Marine armies, but that's not saying a lot because the Space Marine Supplements are f***ing insane. We're definitely competitive with the rest of the non-space-marine field, though, I think.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/13 04:25:40
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
2020/02/13 04:20:18
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
I want to run either Inquisitor Rex or Coteaz and i need help filling the last 200 or so points of my double battalion Paladin list.
My thoughts are if i go with Coteaz i should pick up some Interceptors and use them for board control.
If i use Rex to backup the Paladins ill go with Purges and stay in dakka tide for the majority of the game.
Thoughts?
2020/02/13 05:18:00
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Coteaz gives more benefits to the army as a whole. Not sure what Rex does off the top of my head outside contribute more to melee. However, the rest of the army is already okay-ish at melee.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/02/13 06:17:08
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Coteaz gives more benefits to the army as a whole. Not sure what Rex does off the top of my head outside contribute more to melee. However, the rest of the army is already okay-ish at melee.
Agreed on Coteaz. Rex is also very very good though, DS / 3+ invul, 3 casts 4 denies, hes a monster. However i think Spynetwork is superior agasint most armies.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AlmightyWalrus wrote: So, BroChamp with the new relic sword and hammerhand as a cheapo support HQ? Wounds Knights on a 3+ with Hammerhand (can obviously run something else and still have what is essentially a Thunder Hammer hitting on 2+).
I wouldn't waste your CP or relic slot on that POS sword, at least by comparison. Make sure you've got shard on someone, anyone, to ensure those spells you _need_ to go off, go off.
The problem with the relic sword is it's still strength 4, and as a caster army you have so many better options (shard, matrix ect).
If you're going to use any melee weapon it should be the Soul Glaive, and that's not very good either relative.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/13 06:23:30
2020/02/13 14:07:19
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
It's str 5 ap-3 flat 3 damage. It is a great weapon. It is basically a free thunderhammer vs infantry. you just hit on 2's wound on 3's instead of hit on 3's wound on 2's. It also = no invune saves vs daemons (not that you are gonna be struggling against daemons anyways).
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/02/13 17:24:12
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Coteaz gives more benefits to the army as a whole. Not sure what Rex does off the top of my head outside contribute more to melee. However, the rest of the army is already okay-ish at melee.
Rex can deep strike and drop a power to prevent any sort of overwatch. He's no slouch in CC as well. If you want an Inquisitor out with your main body and don't have transport, I think that Rex is the way to go. Otherwise Corteaz's special is just awesome.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: It's str 5 ap-3 flat 3 damage. It is a great weapon. It is basically a free thunderhammer vs infantry. you just hit on 2's wound on 3's instead of hit on 3's wound on 2's. It also = no invune saves vs daemons (not that you are gonna be struggling against daemons anyways).
Agreed, the new sword is actually worth taking, but partially because our other Relics are largely meh. The shard is good if you're taking a Libby for your important powers, but I like taking Voldus for his super hammer, no relic for him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/13 17:26:27
2020/02/13 17:47:39
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The question is do you want the Champ in combat with something that's T8?
Sure! He automatically fights on death which should stack with the Stratagem to fight on death allowing to fight 2-3 times with a AP-3 flat 3 damage weapon. He'll put some pretty decent hurt on whatever behemoth he's facing for 90 points and 1-2 CP.
2020/02/13 20:35:45
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The question is do you want the Champ in combat with something that's T8?
Sure! He automatically fights on death which should stack with the Stratagem to fight on death allowing to fight 2-3 times with a AP-3 flat 3 damage weapon. He'll put some pretty decent hurt on whatever behemoth he's facing for 90 points and 1-2 CP.
They errata'd the stratagem to get rid of the double death fight, but I agree, for 90 points he's not bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/13 20:36:12
2020/02/13 20:45:01
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The question is do you want the Champ in combat with something that's T8?
Honest question, with all the great HQs we have, and all the powerful support abilities they bring (Brother Captain giving our 2 DMG smite double the range ect) - why would you ever field a Champion?
