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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If it’s going to be Spyrers, I hope they manifest as they discussed when Necromunda returned to us - less Spyrer suits, more spoiled rich kids on jet bikes.

I could probably stomach that... original Spyrers were a bit too much 2021 Necromunda for my tastes.

Anything else but scavvies would be a dissapointement for me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stratigo wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Haven't you seen Mexico?

Cartels here have military level equipement. And necromunda gangs are more like small country sized cartels.

Of course personal preferences are personal preferences but I think newcromunda works much better with 40k than oldmunda.

And, like, is vaan saar, they are the scifi gang. Goliaths, Escher, Orlocks, they look very "regular gangers" to me, with industrial type gear.

I mean... they don't. They have a lot of guns, but, like, not even many more guns then you can find in a rich texan's house.

Exactly

Mexican cartels are pretty much what gangs were in oldcromunda. Lots of big guns, but no crazy military equipments. As said, gangs in newcromunda seems to have tech levels that are higher than astra militarium

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If it’s going to be Spyrers, I hope they manifest as they discussed when Necromunda returned to us - less Spyrer suits, more spoiled rich kids on jet bikes.

I could probably stomach that... original Spyrers were a bit too much 2021 Necromunda for my tastes.

My view of them is somewhat tainted by, in my limited and specific experience, Spyrers being a TFG magnet. (This does not mean all Spyrer players are TFG. Just that if you have a TFG in your campaign, I found they tended to field Spyrers)

Less contentiously I did run them when they first came out, but I quickly became disenchanted because whilst well hard on the battlefield, they missed out so much of post-game stuff, which I’ve always greatly enjoyed.

Spyrers probably should have been a gm only gang, or used.in certain scenario (random ennemies). They really didn't fit with the other gangs nor the game

They can be fun to use - but I think I too would want to reserve them for GM use, alongside the various Cults and Enforcers.

However that’s purely down to my perspective as someone who prefers to GM a strongly narrative campaign, and likes to have antagonists to introduce my players to.

Spyrers are the kind of thing that could work, GW has done big wandering monsters in Warcry. In theory a Spyrer is the same in Necromunda. Something stupidly powerful that you either have to avoid whilst achieving other objectives or work together with an ally to take out something that's as strong as two full gangs

That's quite animecha looking innit

I love it when they add new stuff to 40K but seems like all the cool new things are necromunda-only.

Wouldn't mind GW giving us Necromunda gangs as viable factions for KillTeam

 Overread wrote:
Spyrers are the kind of thing that could work, GW has done big wandering monsters in Warcry. In theory a Spyrer is the same in Necromunda. Something stupidly powerful that you either have to avoid whilst achieving other objectives or work together with an ally to take out something that's as strong as two full gangs

But you don't run a Manticore as your warband. The problem isn't the tabletop, it's factions that don't even play the same game as everybody else on a strategic level, like having to care about money and territory.

Which is why I want to reserve certain gang types for GM use.

They give me something to itch my “smashing faces in” itch, and serve as something for the players to ally with, exploit or gang up on.

No, sir, I don't like it.

I get the concept, generally like mechs and enjoy seeing an expansion of wider 40k-flavored technologies beyond what's seen from the big battlefield models. But that thing looks like someone couldn't decide whether to build a warjack or an Infinity unit and just threw a bunch of models into a blender.
There are no visual cues that say this is a part of a 40k-setting game.
I know newcromunda has diverged from the classic setting already, but even the basic van saar gangers have some aesthetic call backs to older models and certain influences from modern necron sculpts. But if that thing wasn't painted teal or have the 'warhammer community' seal I wouldn't think it's even a GW product.

I've seen this thing before

 streetsamurai wrote:
Anything else but scavvies would be a dissapointement for me


Automatically Appended Next Post:

stratigo wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Haven't you seen Mexico?

Cartels here have military level equipement. And necromunda gangs are more like small country sized cartels.

Of course personal preferences are personal preferences but I think newcromunda works much better with 40k than oldmunda.

And, like, is vaan saar, they are the scifi gang. Goliaths, Escher, Orlocks, they look very "regular gangers" to me, with industrial type gear.

I mean... they don't. They have a lot of guns, but, like, not even many more guns then you can find in a rich texan's house.

Exactly

Mexican cartels are pretty much what gangs were in oldcromunda. Lots of big guns, but no crazy military equipments. As said, gangs in newcromunda seems to have tech levels that are higher than astra militarium

Well, isn't that because Astra Militarum has military doctrine to follow? I'd bet almost any given regiment of AM has much better tech that a given Necromunda gang. 10 gangers with plasma guns and an ambot vs 10 squads with 1 plasma gun each in chimeras with 3 lascannon sentinel backing them up.

Or just 2 special weapons squads, I guess. Either way, the AM regiment has lots and LOTS more resources than the gang.

edit: My point is, when you're funding 10 people, it's a lot easier to allocate "high tech" equipment than it is when outfitting 10000 people.

 Flinty wrote:
I'm certainly going to proxy mine

Spoiler:

Needs tactical debris. The cheesecake robot pose is optional though.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Gangs are closer to Private Military Contractors

Now. You mean now, since they changed it.

And even if they are, they are still equal/better equipped than the military, even the elite units.


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Rihgu wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Well, isn't that because Astra Militarum has military doctrine to follow? I'd bet almost any given regiment of AM has much better tech that a given Necromunda gang. 10 gangers with plasma guns and an ambot vs 10 squads with 1 plasma gun each in chimeras with 3 lascannon sentinel backing them up.

Or just 2 special weapons squads, I guess. Either way, the AM regiment has lots and LOTS more resources than the gang.

Well, yeah, a regiment has much more resources than a gang... in other news, water's wet.

Maybe a better comparison would be a single squad/gang, because that's basically the same level, or well' if you wanna go regiment, then regiment/house... and the regiment will lose, badly, because it's kinda the same comparison as a gang/regiment, but the other way around, if only because a regiment is maybe 1600 guys and a house is hundreds/thousand millions of people, factories, thousands of "gangs"... you name it.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Gangs are closer to Private Military Contractors

Now. You mean now, since they changed it.

And even if they are, they are still equal/better equipped than the military, even the elite units.

Which is actually still a good comparison to PMCs, IMO. They tend to have better gear on an individual basis than a military might.

The difference is that they don't tend to have the backup resources. Artillery, AFVs, aircraft, etc.

Well, yeah, a regiment has much more resources than a gang... in other news, water's wet.

Maybe a better comparison would be a single squad/gang, because that's basically the same level, or well' if you wanna go regiment, then regiment/house... and the regiment will lose, badly, because it's kinda the same comparison as a gang/regiment, but the other way around, if only because a regiment is maybe 1600 guys and a house is hundreds/thousand millions of people, factories, thousands of "gangs"... you name it.

Honestly the thing to remember is that regimental supplying/outfitting is, much like Real Life(tm), set up to meet a few specific caveats:
-Reliability
-Logistics

A ganger can, if he or his gang have the creds, use whatever he wants or is able to acquire.
A Guardsman cannot. Veterans will scavenge gear over time, but they don't get it issued to them.

I can understand where people who played Oldcromunda are coming from, but I do think it's kind of a product of its time to an extent. PMCs, gangs/cartels, etc...they weren't really something that people seemingly thought would be A Big Deal in real life.

It's pretty hard to make the fiction believable when real life can be so, so, so much worse IMO.

And in the Imperial Army there's every chances that you will have to hide your scavenged gear from your superiors. Even a modification to your weapon that improves it like a better sight could be ground for termination or demotion/punishment depending on how your commissar is and if there's an stickler for the rules higher up around.

 Albertorius wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rihgu wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

Well, isn't that because Astra Militarum has military doctrine to follow? I'd bet almost any given regiment of AM has much better tech that a given Necromunda gang. 10 gangers with plasma guns and an ambot vs 10 squads with 1 plasma gun each in chimeras with 3 lascannon sentinel backing them up.

Or just 2 special weapons squads, I guess. Either way, the AM regiment has lots and LOTS more resources than the gang.

Well, yeah, a regiment has much more resources than a gang... in other news, water's wet.

Maybe a better comparison would be a single squad/gang, because that's basically the same level, or well' if you wanna go regiment, then regiment/house... and the regiment will lose, badly, because it's kinda the same comparison as a gang/regiment, but the other way around, if only because a regiment is maybe 1600 guys and a house is hundreds/thousand millions of people, factories, thousands of "gangs"... you name it.

Well, if we go gang to squad, then we have doctrine to follow. Squads are allocated X weapons of Y types to people of Z role because that's the doctrine. Not because they don't HAVE the weapons, but because doctrine says this mix of weapons is what they should have. Meanwhile gangs get whatever they can, basically based on meritocracy/scavenging skill.

The house doesn't super directly fund their gangs, at least as far as gameplay goes. They're probably the ones giving bounties per mission won, but I got most of my loot from rackets/territories in the campaigns I've played. Gangs are mostly self-sufficient outside of specific House Favours. Regiments are not. So Regiment -> House is not an apt comparison.

 Albertorius wrote:


Maybe a better comparison would be a single squad/gang, because that's basically the same level, or well' if you wanna go regiment, then regiment/house... and the regiment will lose, badly, because it's kinda the same comparison as a gang/regiment, but the other way around, if only because a regiment is maybe 1600 guys and a house is hundreds/thousand millions of people, factories, thousands of "gangs"... you name it.

Regiment/house would be a much, much worse comparison, because those millions of people aren't combatants.

It's probably better to conceive of the gangs we and our friends/opponents play as "heroic and rare examples of what a gang could become" rather than the averaged-out prototypical gang. In exactly the same way that Kaldor Draigo may appear in 75%+ of Grey Knights' played in our world -- yet clearly does not participate in 75%+ of the conflict Grey Knights engage in in-universe -- you kind of need to disconnect background from tabletop to have a good faith take in these discussions.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


Maybe a better comparison would be a single squad/gang, because that's basically the same level, or well' if you wanna go regiment, then regiment/house... and the regiment will lose, badly, because it's kinda the same comparison as a gang/regiment, but the other way around, if only because a regiment is maybe 1600 guys and a house is hundreds/thousand millions of people, factories, thousands of "gangs"... you name it.

Regiment/house would be a much, much worse comparison, because those millions of people aren't combatants.

It's probably better to conceive of the gangs we and our friends/opponents play as "heroic and rare examples of what a gang could become" rather than the averaged-out prototypical gang. In exactly the same way that Kaldor Draigo may appear in 75%+ of Grey Knights' played in our world -- yet clearly does not participate in 75%+ of the conflict Grey Knights engage in in-universe -- you kind of need to disconnect background from tabletop to have a good faith take in these discussions.

However by this logic we can still conclude that the Imperial Guard, as a whole or any part of it, cannot muster anything remotely as snazzy as top tier Necromunda street gangs, since the Guard codex would also have to be assumed to represent the singular ultraheroic mary sue platoons and yet they get all.

The van saar rig looks pretty cool, but I dislike models like that when they're in resin. Smaller stuff like the phyrr cats/weapon upgrades or infantry sized minis aren't too bad. I think out of all the house brutes i'd rather they did that one in plastic.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:


Maybe a better comparison would be a single squad/gang, because that's basically the same level, or well' if you wanna go regiment, then regiment/house... and the regiment will lose, badly, because it's kinda the same comparison as a gang/regiment, but the other way around, if only because a regiment is maybe 1600 guys and a house is hundreds/thousand millions of people, factories, thousands of "gangs"... you name it.

Regiment/house would be a much, much worse comparison, because those millions of people aren't combatants.

It's probably better to conceive of the gangs we and our friends/opponents play as "heroic and rare examples of what a gang could become" rather than the averaged-out prototypical gang. In exactly the same way that Kaldor Draigo may appear in 75%+ of Grey Knights' played in our world -- yet clearly does not participate in 75%+ of the conflict Grey Knights engage in in-universe -- you kind of need to disconnect background from tabletop to have a good faith take in these discussions.

However by this logic we can still conclude that the Imperial Guard, as a whole or any part of it, cannot muster anything remotely as snazzy as top tier Necromunda street gangs, since the Guard codex would also have to be assumed to represent the singular ultraheroic mary sue platoons and yet they get all.

Command Squads of both flavours would disagree, furthermore they carry enough ammo to reliably last a battle...

 warboss wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
I'm certainly going to proxy mine

Spoiler:

Needs tactical degree. The cheesecake robot pose is optional though.

I get it now… You meant Tachikomas didn’t you!

I did some of them one upon a time as well

 tauist wrote:
Wouldn't mind GW giving us Necromunda gangs as viable factions for KillTeam

Be careful what you wish for…Nu-Newcromunda using KillCry is one of my worries/hopes.

I like it, but being resin means I’ll probably never get it.

Hopefully they will announce a new edition.

looks likes a scarab to me, necron tech !! heretic
call the inqeusition.

 Flinty wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
I'm certainly going to proxy mine

Spoiler:

Needs tactical degree. The cheesecake robot pose is optional though.

I get it now… You meant Tachikomas didn’t you!

I did some of them one upon a time as well

That works too. Also, feth Android autocorrect. I get that autocorrect will change incorrectly spelled words but correctly spelled ones for other completely different words? Debris is not interchangeable with degree, Google.

I’m going to guess that both this kit, and the earlier Cawdor one will be plastic.

What would make you think that?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
That's a much chunkier model than I think most of us expected.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Infinity-looking bastard. Remember when gangs weren't hyperadvanced?

Yea good times. I really preferred it when it was street thugs fighting for scraps and not 6+ high tech militaries that would give the AdMech a run of their money somehow all hiding in the Underhive while contributing absolutely nothing to the Imperium.

There’s the Necromunda 8th “Spiders” so they contribute a lot mostly cannon fodder.

 Geifer wrote:
Weird gak. Like, seriously. I'm not seeing Necromunda in that model.

 Galas wrote:
And, like, is vaan saar, they are the scifi gang.

Yeah, but Van Saar used to be the Fremen gang, you know? Gritty Eighties sci-fi. Not polished new millennium sci-fi.

There's a tangible difference and GW's designers don't do a very good job of understanding it when reinterpreting classics, in my opinion.

Aside from the look of the stillsuits I don’t see the connection between the two. Stillsuits are not exclusively Fremen the spice harvesters and even Rabban wore one. It’s just that theirs are the best manufactured. Although if Rabban’s suit came from the Fremen I bet it leaked. The Fremen are religious outcasts while the Van Saar are more like D&Ds Tinkers Guild.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What would make you think that?

I just think we are due to see some plastic turn up. No inside info, just a hunch.