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What are some of your favorite Non-40k Books?

A few that come to mind for me are Grendel by John Gardner, The Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell, People of the Abyss by Jack London, and The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand.

On the fifth anniversary of Sir Terry’s premature passing?

Discworld.

All of it. All of it.

The original Fraser "Flashman" series are simply brilliant - some of the best writing I've encountered while being riotously entertaining.

For a simpler, but well written and quick to devour "modern" novel, I liked 95% of Michael Crichton's writing. His numerous doctorates and his research-heavy style resulted in a formula I always enjoyed; taking fringe science and writing an exciting novel around it. While most of his books were turned into trash movies, the novels themselves are fun, entertaining, and quick reads. Favourites being Congo, Eaters of the Dead, Sphere, Andromeda Strain, Jurassic Park (just the first one), etc.

I've struggled to find quality fantasy novels. Re-reading the Dragonlance Chronicles for the first time since I was a kid has been painful...

 Elbows wrote:
The original Fraser "Flashman" series are simply brilliant - some of the best writing I've encountered while being riotously entertaining.

For a simpler, but well written and quick to devour "modern" novel, I liked 95% of Michael Crichton's writing. His numerous doctorates and his research-heavy style resulted in a formula I always enjoyed; taking fringe science and writing an exciting novel around it. While most of his books were turned into trash movies, the novels themselves are fun, entertaining, and quick reads. Favourites being Congo, Eaters of the Dead, Sphere, Andromeda Strain, Jurassic Park (just the first one), etc.

I've struggled to find quality fantasy novels. Re-reading the Dragonlance Chronicles for the first time since I was a kid has been painful...

The song of ice and fire books are pretty good fantasy novels, the couple I have read anyway. Not big into Fantasy personally, apart from 40k.

R. Scott Bakker's Second Apocalypse series. The main protagonist, Kellhus, is basically how the Emperor should have been written in the Horus Heresy books. There's a lot of 40K 'feel' in the Second Apocalypse generally, but Bakker is a far more capable author than anyone who has ever written for the Black Library, even ADB and Chris Wraight.

Some books I have read recently that I recommend:

The Sheltering Sky by Paul Bowles - I always wanted to read this after listening to Tea in the Sahara by The Police and it is a good tale. Bit of a difficult read: the main protagonists are incredibly unlikable people that one finds difficult to have any sort of empathy with but that is the whole point of the book.

Things the Grandchildren Should Know - a great autobiography by the Eels singer/guitarist.

Victor the Assassin books by Tom Wood - a series of novels depicting a fictional gun for hire. Really gritty, authentic and with superb attention to detail. Victor is an absolute antihero; a real hateful human being but someone who you end up with grudging respect and admiration for his abilities. A cracking series and highly recommended.

Other stuff I have been reading recently are mostly historical books - The Pacific and Helmet for my Pillow

Along the lines of more mainstream fiction, I would point you to Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy, Remains of the Day, the Spenser books by Robert Parker, the short stories of Annie Proulx, the historical fiction of Conn Iggleton, Philip Roth’s Portnoy’s Complaint, Cornel Woolrich for the prose, and David J Schow for the viscera.


You could also do worse than Dave Barry Does Japan.

Grendel is a good shout, I really enjoyed that.

I love Terry Pratchett as well. Currently re-reading his stuff.

Fantasy wise I love Robin Hobb, the Farseer trilogys are great.

More mainstream fiction I really enjoyed A Secret History by Donna Taart.

Non-Fiction, I think The Emperor of All Maladies: A History of Cancer is an absolute masterpiece by Siddartha Mukherjee and his second book The Gene is amazing too.

I love the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit as well, and Dune, and all the other classics you would expect a Wargaming nerd to be into!

Lotr, I'm re reading that right now.

Roadside picnic was quite good. I need to read more vintage Sci fi.

Ohh book thread!!

A few of mine

Authors (when I like most of their work spread over different series/novels)

Robin Hobb - her series are almost all (barring Soldier Son) set in the same world and take you on a wild tour! From the fantastic and powerful start of The Farsee Triology to the Liveship Traders and beyond! She's fantastic at getting into the heads of her characters and creating a living, breathing changing world.

The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings - I've a special love of this series as it was one of my first forays into the world of fantasy (with a beautiful illustrated edition of The Hobbit). From being read the story by my father when I was young through to reading them myself several times (way before the films appeared). Fantastic storytelling and world building! I mean do I even need to justify these books?!

Temeraire by Naomi Norvik. The first book that began her series of dragon riding tales. A twist on the Napoleonic era - its akin to the Jack and Aubry novels only with dragons the size of frigates.

The Book of Jhereg by Steven Brust - the beginnings (first three books in one actually) of his long running series that follows the adventures and misadventures of a human struggling in a world ruled by powerful humanoid dragonclans; and his cheeky jhereg companion. These are a nice break from so many of the epic stories; much closer to adventuring tales, but with a touch of the dramatic world shattering impacts of the characters actions thrown in along the way.

The Nights Dawn Trilogy by Peter F Hamiltion. I don't read much sci-fi and books this thick with a heavy sci-fi element can daunt many. But Peter has a skill like Tolkien for descriptive writing and he doesn't leave you in the dark even when he's throwing more technical terms at you than a Star Trek Engineer about to save the day. These are thick books and very epic in scope (seriously get them as e-books - the paperbacks alone at 1K pages each strain your fingers!).

Discworld by Sir Terry Pratchett. Just pure awesome and exceptionally hard to put down (he also doesn't use chapters - there's no natural break point, once you're on the ride there's no stop nor pause). If you've never read them I'd totally recommend heading out and grabbing a copy of The Colour of Magic. Ignore many who say its "not the best" its still a fantastic book and reading them in publication order lets you see his world evolve, change, advance and adapt to a huge period of revolution. You also see the running threads of jokes* and puns that creep their way into the series.
He's a fantastic writer and one capable of layering his work and his jokes and themes. Each book (esp once you're past the first few) often deals with very real world elements transposed into the mad world of the Disc. Within them he sneaks little tid-bits and references to the real world that might be the part of jokes or references or just nods to things. But even if you don't "get" them you can "get" the whole Discworld impression of them and their reaction.

Dune by Frank Herbert - another powerful and exceptionally popular sci-fi book. I've loved it for years (ever since reading the copy that came with Emperor Battle for Dune by Westwood all those years ago). It stands alone from its series as a powerful tale of a strange future. If you like 40K you'll love Dune as they both follow almost sane but insane dark worlds of the far flung future.

Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. If Game of Thrones is one of the biggest and best "low" fantasy epics of our age; then Malazan (which starts with Gardens of the Moon) is the "high" magic alternative. Gods, demons, the undead, space elves and more. This is a truly epic story that spans both time and space over its setting. In fact its so huge the second book in the series jumps from one wartorn content to another; taking the reader from open plains and woods into the burning heat and freezing cold of the deserts of another land gripped not in invasion but with uprising. There are powerful characters; epic moments and huge sweep of events.

Daggerspell by Katharine Kerr - an often overlooked book that begins a long and still going series of tales set in a fantasy world based on the Celtic eras. This story is one of the more complex as the tale involved rebirth through several different generations. As such you follow the characters as they come to be reborn into new bodies; but not in a purely linear manner. Jumping back and forth you get glimpses of events of the past that foreshadow those of the future. All through you also see the few constant characters that outlast the mortal coils and continue to live on and struggle in an ever changing world.
For me that's the added icing on the cake; the actual joy is reading a setting that's fantasy, but away from the pure medieval themes. There's also a strong feeling of the author having done a lot of research into the era; little tidbits much like you get in something like Game of Thrones that add an air of authenticity to the fantasy world. Of may of the stories I've mentioned this one is perhaps one that gets more overlooked - and its a huge shame that people do overlook it as they miss out. It can sometimes feel a bit of a challenge in the first book to settle into it, but for the reader who does there's a great reward in the story.

Sabriel by Garth Nix - the first of a series of books, although its a stand alone story and I'd say the best (along with Lirael, the second). Enter a world where the line between life and death is a little; blurry; just like the line between the world of science and the world of magic is a bit blurred. This is one of those rare "Narnia" style stories that really works fantastically well.

The Red Knight by Miles Cameron. Enter a fantasy world built atop the back of a powerfully realistic based medieval setting. Feel the thunder of charging cavalry; the blood, guts and struggle of surviving a siege against forces of mystical powers. This is the first of a long series by Miles that's a wonderful read.


*Such as why a troll would be worried about another troll that wears diamonds on its rings.

I love Joe Abercrombie's work. The First Law trilogy is awesome gritty fantasy, but I think my favourite books of his are the semi-standalone sequels Best Served Cold and The Heroes.

Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards series is brilliant too, just wish he'd write more...

I also really like C J Sansom's Shardlake series - essentially Tudor period detective novels. Very well written and feel very historically authentic.

One final slightly personal plug. An old friend of mine's wife is a relatively new author, and is writing bloody amazing thrillers. Check out Sometimes I Lie, and I Know Who You Are, by Alice Feeney. The former is currently being made into a TV series starring Sarah Michelle Cellar. I'll be watching it.

Happy to see that Abercrombie's work has been mentioned a few times, I really enjoyed The First Law trilogy myself. My favorite book series has to go Gentlemen Bastards though. I couldn't put any of those books down until I finished them, they're all excellent. I also really, really dug Patrick Rothfuss' work as well. Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear are solid reads. At the moment I'm currently reading the first book in Wheel of Time, which has been pretty good so far.

I read Gardens of the Moon and wasn't crazy about it, but certainly won't begrudge anyone that likes Erikson's work. Maybe I should give him another go.

Anyone that finds Ancient Rome interesting should totally read the Emperor series by Iggulden. It uses a bit of artistic license so definitely not a strictly 'accurate' telling of Caesar's life, but still a very entertaining read. Read them in high school and thoroughly enjoyed them all.

I do enjoy some of the literary classics as well. Books like The Mayor of Casterbridge and Catcher in the Rye will always have a special place in my heart. Also love Orwell's books. 1984, Animal Farm, A Clergyman's Daughter, and Burmese Days are the ones I've read and really dug them all.

I wasn't greatly a fan of Abercrombes main series. I found most of the main story didn't really "go" anywhere and too many were slaved to the mad whims of a wizard. However Glotka - now his chapters were an utter joy to read. His struggles, pains and overall behaviour were so engaging and far more interesting. He also felt like one of the few characters who aimed to and achieved things through his own hard struggle.

 Overread wrote:

Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. If Game of Thrones is one of the biggest and best "low" fantasy epics of our age; then Malazan (which starts with Gardens of the Moon) is the "high" magic alternative. Gods, demons, the undead, space elves and more. This is a truly epic story that spans both time and space over its setting. In fact its so huge the second book in the series jumps from one wartorn content to another; taking the reader from open plains and woods into the burning heat and freezing cold of the deserts of another land gripped not in invasion but with uprising. There are powerful characters; epic moments and huge sweep of events.

A fellow Bridgeburner! Glad to see someone beat me to it.

Going to second this one, despite being on book 3/10. It’s very in media res, but that’s part of the fun! There are no info dumps, and even some parts of the plot are left to the reader to put together. I’ve always found the latter to be some of the best parts in the series (again, thus far). If you do pick it up, keep an eye out for a gentleman named Kruppe. He steals the show every time he’s around.

Is there a primer for new Malazan readers?

I read through Gardens of the Moon and found it frustratingly vague and opaque. There were scenes where two unnamed characters would talk obliquely about you-know-hush-hush for pages at a time. The "epic" characters and scenes came across like some dork's beloved home brew RPG characters; every time Annomander Rake appeared my eyes would roll and my hand would make the ShakeWeight gesture. Then, due to insufficient context, the ending was a deus ex machina that made much of the book feel superfluous.

Because the series is so highly regarded, I got the second one, but as soon as I realized I had to start all over I threw it in a box. Someday I hope to get more out of the series, but I can't do it alone.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is there a primer for new Malazan readers?

I read through Gardens of the Moon and found it frustratingly vague and opaque. There were scenes where two unnamed characters would talk obliquely about you-know-hush-hush for pages at a time. The "epic" characters and scenes came across like some dork's beloved home brew RPG characters; every time Annomander Rake appeared my eyes would roll and my hand would make the ShakeWeight gesture. Then, due to insufficient context, the ending was a deus ex machina that made much of the book feel superfluous.

Because the series is so highly regarded, I got the second one, but as soon as I realized I had to start all over I threw it in a box. Someday I hope to get more out of the series, but I can't do it alone.

From what I understand, Gardens of the Moon is considered one of the lower points in the series. It was originally supposed to be a movie script, but was rewritten into a book. This is why the pacing and dialogue are kind of weird. You’re not wrong about the RPG thing either, since part of the series was a GURPS campaign. Now that you bring it up, it’s kind of funny imagining Rake as some kind of “too edgy 4 u” power fantasy character someone made up.

As for a primer, I know there is a Malazan Wiki but it may have spoilers, There’s also a Malazan reddit which seems to have a decent community, and has the occasional question from new readers.

As its the most fresh "series" I've read I will also throw out a mention for Patrick Rothfuss.

As someone who's read a decent bit of fantasy novels, I find that Rothfuss' "system" for magic use is more unique. Something about his writing style, characters, and method of storytelling just kinda clicked with me. I bought the first book on a lark, and ended up buying the second book around the time I was about 1/3rd through the first.



Other books/authors I'd recommend:

PKD. I mean, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", "The Man in the High Castle", and others are literary classics.

John Scalzi, particularly his "Old Man's War" series is pretty good.

I've read Prince of Thorns, and King of Thorns by Mark Lawrence, another pretty decent pulpy/warhammer-esque (in terms of grim dark darkness) series.

The eagles of the Empire series by Simon scarrow. Fantastic series about a couple of Roman officers.

Historical fiction hack and slash type book... Its my guilty pleasure....

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is there a primer for new Malazan readers?

I read through Gardens of the Moon and found it frustratingly vague and opaque. There were scenes where two unnamed characters would talk obliquely about you-know-hush-hush for pages at a time. The "epic" characters and scenes came across like some dork's beloved home brew RPG characters; every time Annomander Rake appeared my eyes would roll and my hand would make the ShakeWeight gesture. Then, due to insufficient context, the ending was a deus ex machina that made much of the book feel superfluous.

Because the series is so highly regarded, I got the second one, but as soon as I realized I had to start all over I threw it in a box. Someday I hope to get more out of the series, but I can't do it alone.

It keeps starting over, but occasionally characters recur.
But I definitely don't recommend the later books if you don't have an overpowering rape fetish, including kids and random necrophilia (and institutionalized borderline necrophilia, where sex with dying men is supposed to create super-babies).


There are some interesting things buried in it (especially the archaeology, and some of the stuff on stone age fantasy, which is fairly novel), but a lot requires setting knowledge that just isn't available to readers.

The reason it feels like RPG characters is because it is. Rake is Erikson's first D&D character. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I don't remember my first D&D character, but I can't remember anyone's stories of one that wasn't eye-roll inducing.
The setting is the authors' (Erikson and Esselmont) personal GURPS setting. About 20% of the novels are just game session write-ups.
https://malazan.fandom.com/wiki/Role-playing_Game_Origins_of_the_Malazan_Series

Man, that's disappointing. Something similar happened to The Warded Man, where the first book was really good and then the second...kinda rapey.

Specific books I reread the most:

Dune is the top, I just love the depth and intricacies of the world. The sequels, prequels and spinoffs are OK, but nothing touches the original.

A Wizard of Earthsea series, partly because it’s very different to other high fantasy worlds, partly because it feels timeless but probably, mainly because it was the first “proper” novel I read, back when I was...11? Maybe. Looong time ago.

The Hobbit/LoTR for the standard reasons.

Stuff I recommend (but don’t reread as much)

Terry Pratchett’s Discworld (obviously brilliant and the reason I don’t reread often is there’s so damn much!)

I have liked pretty much all of Peter F Hamilton’s work; I actually prefer Pandora’s Star / Judas Unchained to the Night’s Dawn trilogy; it’s got a better plot resolution and is a bit more refined. ND is a magnificent, sprawling epic that is probably a little too ambitious for it’s own good. Also check out his much earlier Mindstar Rising series, which is more spy/thriller territory and is set in a mid-21st century that has the rare, “Demolition Man” quality of actually becoming more accurate in some ways as we get closer to it!

The Temeraire series is good fun with an interesting idea (what if Napoleonic wars, but with dragons?!)

There are several series by Trudi Canavan that are really good; The Magician’s series and associated sequels/spin offs are good solid standard fantasy with a few interesting twists and The Priestess of the White trilogy is an interesting, different kind of fantasy world.

The Inheritance Cycle (Eragon) is the great story that you wish YOU could have written as a 17-year old (and probably thought you did until you look back at that DnD campaign idea 10-years later and cringe). Weirdly one of the things I really like is how it grows and improves over the course of the books.

Finally I have a huge collection of Tom Clancy’s “Jack Ryan” novels; the later ones vary from a bit meh to not good (particularly when he was really getting into the whole franchise/ghost writing thing that has continued after his death), but the early ones, particularly Hunt for Red October are good, solid spy/military thrillers.

1984 by George Orwell should be in every literary list.

Tied with Weaveworld by Clive Barker.

Could read those two books over and again.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Man, that's disappointing. Something similar happened to The Warded Man, where the first book was really good and then the second...kinda rapey.

While we’re on that subject, would anyone happen to know if the Sword of Truth books do this? Blindly picked up a few on sale, but the general consensus seems to be that there’s this weird S&M undertone throughout. I’ve also heard that the series becomes the author’s soapbox on Ayn Rand around the las tthird.

oh yeah, George Orwell. truly rare in that despite being a socialist, also wrote incredibly pertinent and telling literature about the dangers of extremist ideology.

the other day I read 'screwtape proposes a toast' by CS Lewis, and that was very relevant to modern times in my opinion. its a fairly short read, but worth it. I havent read the main Screwtape Chronicles, but I may do at some point.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Man, that's disappointing. Something similar happened to The Warded Man, where the first book was really good and then the second...kinda rapey.

I think sometimes readers also fixate on certain aspects of a story which can enlarge them in their viewpoint and come to dominate the story and their impression of it.

As for Malazan the second book can throw you, however the story is in many ways a bit tighter than the first. Plus multiple characters from the first reappear in the second. Plus after books one and two you're then prepared for book three which swings you mostly back to the setting of the first book and throws a massive series of revelations and events at you. Almost like the first two books are setting themselves up purely to make the events of the third book work. To me its a series that rewards the reader sticking with it because what might confuse or bemuse you at first is setting the stage for later. There's a lot of building blocks that go into this that add to the next layer.

There's clearly far more going on than "its just an RPG write-up" even if the setting and themes began with RPGs (and honestly a LOT of good fantasy stories have begun their lives that way).

Du contrat social: Rousseau.
Obviously.

I do tend to like fantasy; Bartimäus probably the most though.

History,i like Beaver. Regardlesss of topic.

 Jadenim wrote:
[u]
There are several series by Trudi Canavan that are really good; The Magician’s series and associated sequels/spin offs are good solid standard fantasy with a few interesting twists and The Priestess of the White trilogy is an interesting, different kind of fantasy world.

Yeah I generally enjoyed her Black Magician trilogy. The one thing that really grated with me was her (to me, anyway) unnecessary world-building where she felt the need to come up with alternate names for generally familiar stuff. She'd be talking about ceryni and faren and so on, and you'd check the glossary in the back of the book and it'd say 'yeah, that's a mouse', 'yeah, that's a spider'.

If it's just a spider, then just call it a damn spider. Or an Arachnoid ForestSkitterer(TM) if you're GW.

Second shout-out to the Temeraire series, even though I feel the end felt a bit sudden and rushed. It really is a great read for the most part.


Currently working my way through the 1632/Ring of Fire series, it's great fun for anyone who likes alt-history.

Wheel of Time deserves a shout-out as well, you don't get to be the runner-up to LotR without being good.

#1 for me is by author-

-David weber. his flagship series honor harrington is one of my all time favorites

But i also count other series he has done such as the mutineers moon trilogy among my favorites

-I am also a fan of Elaine Cunninghams forgotten realms starlight and shadow trilogy for my D&D fix.

-I was an avid reader of the wheel of time series by robert jordan. but i never read the last 3 books finished after he died in 2007

The wife also got me to read some of the SIGMA FORCE books by james rollins-modern spy/archeology/historical legends action adventure.

I don't get much time to read anymore with my schedule. so most of my library consists of the above along with my horus heresy books and a large collection of japanese manga series i collected.

Riftworld Saga - Raymond E Fiest