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 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Can i place a bet for a Chosen and cultist kit?

Maybee we even get new possessed if we are lucky.

I'd be surprised. I think Fabulous Bill is the only Chaos release this book. And rightly so - Chaos have enjoyed a glut of releases for some time.

Yea, I'v had a thought that Agents of bile will literally only be a legion trait and a single stratagem.

Oh I reckon there'll be a lot more rules, just no other new model releases.

Presumably it'll be a subfaction trait, a number of unique stratagems, 1 or 2 relics, maybe a psychic tree and that's it? Perhaps a new mechanic unique to the faction?

All the other renegade chapters have a faction trait, 1 relic, 1 strat and 1 warlord trait, so following that pattern Latro might be right.

 Asmodai wrote:
With Assassins and Sisters of Silence in this book, there will be only one White Dwarf army left (Inquisitors). I have a hunch they may show up in Pariah.

Actually, there are also Rogue Traders. Who could really use unified rules as their own are split in like dozen places...

 Kanluwen wrote:
Wild speculation: could Bile be where the Blackstone Fortress Renegade Guardsmen get published rules rather than relying on just the boxed set's booklet?

Seeing they have absolute zero to do with him or anything he ever did or worked with, it's as likely as plastic Golden Throne on a Thunderhawk model.

 Irbis wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
With Assassins and Sisters of Silence in this book, there will be only one White Dwarf army left (Inquisitors). I have a hunch they may show up in Pariah.

Actually, there are also Rogue Traders. Who could really use unified rules as their own are split in like dozen places...

I don't they were ever given rules in White Dwarf - but a having a reprinted and updated version of the Elucidians, Gellerpox and the 40K rules for the BSF models in one place would be great. If not in PA, then hopefully in Chapter Approved.

 Asmodai wrote:
I don't they were ever given rules in White Dwarf - but a having a reprinted and updated version of the Elucidians, Gellerpox and the 40K rules for the BSF models in one place would be great. If not in PA, then hopefully in Chapter Approved.

I thought there was one minidex?

Though anyway, RT really deserve their own book, they could easily fill most of FOC slots on their own now (especially if their troops weren't unique for some reason), and if you gave them a few logical units from other armies, you could write full sized book larger than half of the armies in the game. Frankly, seeing PA fluff started with Rogue Traders doing things or being mentioned a lot, it feels really weird we're getting stuff like Bile doing solo crusade or Assassins before they got something...

See, I figure that Bile is the one who'll let GW kick off "Primaris Chaos Marines", where he finally gets his guys perfected and starts seeding them (or, well, selling them) to assorted chaos bands.

Wakshaani wrote:
See, I figure that Bile is the one who'll let GW kick off "Primaris Chaos Marines", where he finally gets his guys perfected and starts seeding them (or, well, selling them) to assorted chaos bands.

GW just came out with new marines and havocs. They would get a lot more mileage out of chosen, or focus on the emperors children and world eaters to get them up to Thousand Sons or Death Guard levels of model support.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
See, I figure that Bile is the one who'll let GW kick off "Primaris Chaos Marines", where he finally gets his guys perfected and starts seeding them (or, well, selling them) to assorted chaos bands.

GW just came out with new marines and havocs. They would get a lot more mileage out of chosen, or focus on the emperors children and world eaters to get them up to Thousand Sons or Death Guard levels of model support.

Maybee not Primaris, but i'd imagine his modifications would make chosen quite happy.
Burn bright and reach daemonhood or die trying.


(not to mention that we have no chosen kit since, well , ever )

 Tastyfish wrote:
From the interview with Duncan Waugh on the voxcast, it sound like one of the upcoming armies is going to have a pretty strange new mechanic as part of their update. He's very vague about it, but contrasts it against things like the stratagems that just buff a unit and picking subfaction traits from a list.

It's super vague, because he's not spoiling anything but apparently this new type of thing of 'faction specific mechanics' is something that will probably be applied across other armies in the future.
I'd probably put my money on daemons, as I can see how that is more of a fluid thing and doesn't lend itself that well to subfactions.

I would love this to be a way to depict all the crazy stuff Bile does to his subjects.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
With Assassins and Sisters of Silence in this book, there will be only one White Dwarf army left (Inquisitors). I have a hunch they may show up in Pariah.

Plague Companies were mentioned with Death Guard - but Watches weren't for Custodes. I'm curious if that omission means they won't be getting subfaction rules.

To be fair, sub-factions for Custodes dropping their The Emperor's Chosen bonus to their invul. for ... something else ... are probably a giant waste of paper.

They probably wouldn't lose their core rules bonuses...space marines didn't lose doctrines and GK kept all of their bonuses while having more rules layered on. My guess is if they get something more than stratagems and Talons integration it will probably take the form of a generic "army buff" like grey knights got. They don't really have the lore or range depth to merit subfactions, IMO

 greyknight12 wrote:

They probably wouldn't lose their core rules bonuses...space marines didn't lose doctrines and GK kept all of their bonuses while having more rules layered on. My guess is if they get something more than stratagems and Talons integration it will probably take the form of a generic "army buff" like grey knights got. They don't really have the lore or range depth to merit subfactions, IMO

If it is about different Watches or Custodes, which is what I was responding to, they would. PA Eldar cannot be a custom Craftworld and Alaitoc. PA Nids cannot be a custom Hive Fleet and Kraken. PA GSC cannot be a custom Cult and Twisted Helix. PA Tau cannot be a custom Sept and Bor‘kan, etc..

Admittedly, Space Marines are different in that they can get lots of Iron Hands or White Scars specific stuff despite being a custom chapter, but that hasn’t been the norm.

The current Custodes „chapter tactic“ is currently identical to the one for Prophets of Flesh, and Coven Drukhari also have to forgo that if they‘d want a custom coven (which is the only thing they got, given Drukhari got zero strats, WL-traits, relics, etc.. in PA).

Lore-wise, the Codex has things like the Solar Watch or the Shadowkeepers, which is where the conversation came from. So the lore does support them.



A general power-buff would always be nice, but Custodes are already a pretty strong army, and far, far weaker factions like Ynnari or GSC didn't get any general buff out of PA. It's pretty much up to chance on whether the rules the writers decide to throw in there actually help the faction "strength/meta-wise".

First War of the Spider short story up. "Burden of Brotherhood".

Apparently I'm confused about which supplement (Spider or Engines) is coming first.


Odd story. 'Extreme measures that we did to ourselves in secret are the fault of others, so we need spiky hats now' is a dubious chain of thought.

So, "Engine War" was the next book to release after "Saga of the Beast". Because of COVID19, it's not releasing.

"War of the Spider" comes after "Engine War". After "War of the Spider" comes "Pariah".

Voss wrote:
Apparently I'm confused about which supplement (Spider or Engines) is coming first.


Odd story. 'Extreme measures that we did to ourselves in secret are the fault of others, so we need spiky hats now' is a dubious chain of thought.

Certainly makes it easier to understand why whole Chapters go Renegade.

Voss wrote:
Apparently I'm confused about which supplement (Spider or Engines) is coming first.


Odd story. 'Extreme measures that we did to ourselves in secret are the fault of others, so we need spiky hats now' is a dubious chain of thought.

Becuase if they didn't, others would use extreme measures. And they woudnt limit to those who manifested powers.

I would love for War of the Spider to have more daemon stuff as well, but given Bile's attitude towards daemons, that may be unlikely. Instead, Primaris CSM could be like Beastmen Marines, with hooves, fangs, and other animal-like traits. For example, wings could be used in place of jump packs or jet packs.

 Kanluwen wrote:
First War of the Spider short story up. "Burden of Brotherhood".

Keeping the age-old astartes tradition of turning traitor if you catch a cold, feel lonely, or any other minor annoyances .

strigops wrote:

Voss wrote:
Apparently I'm confused about which supplement (Spider or Engines) is coming first.


Odd story. 'Extreme measures that we did to ourselves in secret are the fault of others, so we need spiky hats now' is a dubious chain of thought.

Becuase if they didn't, others would use extreme measures. And they woudnt limit to those who manifested powers.

Because whichever chapter this is doesn't have librarians?
Space Marine chapters can and do keep 'horrible' secrets and operate independently, and sometimes blow up inquisition ships without issue (though you have to be Space Woofs for that). Having psykers that apparently just energy blast the enemies doesn't seem to justify any of this, because this is 10,000 years after Nikea and everybody but the Black Templars have those.

Its kind of a fluff failure- its PA, so they're once again sorta vaguely trying to double down on 'psykers are a problem' thread, but librarians are so ubiquitous in SM armies that it falls flat, and the jump to chaos and full traitor thinking is just bizzarely unjustified within the story itself.

Chapter Master Broly McIntire was brooding. He had to kill one more of his chapter brothers. It was the last of them. He was now alone. But he had protected the chapter's honor, he had disguised the secret forever; noone in the Inquisition would never know that... they were not human anymore! They had extra organs and stuff! If the Inquisition ever heard of that, the chapter would have been declared Excomunicate Traitoris and killed to the last manand expurged from all records!
This he would never let happen, as he slit his own throat!

You guys are such a jaded bunch. This story is a no more or less 'silly' reason for a Chapter to go Renegade than that of Lufgt Huron and the Astral Claws during the Badab War.

 alextroy wrote:
You guys are such a jaded bunch. This story is a no more or less 'silly' reason for a Chapter to go Renegade than that of Lufgt Huron and the Astral Claws during the Badab War.

Yeah but you've missed the part where you actively twist what happens just to moan.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
First War of the Spider short story up. "Burden of Brotherhood".

Keeping the age-old astartes tradition of turning traitor if you catch a cold, feel lonely, or any other minor annoyances .

I got the sense they were going renegade, not Chaos.

Renegade is traitor already wrt to the Imperium, and usually ends with turning to Chaos at one point, no?

 alextroy wrote:
You guys are such a jaded bunch. This story is a no more or less 'silly' reason for a Chapter to go Renegade than that of Lufgt Huron and the Astral Claws during the Badab War.

Agreed. I thought it was a cool story. No mentions of Chaos. Simply a Chapter choosing its own destiny. A little corner of the grimdark. It’s a free story that likely won’t impact anything ever again, no need for the Salt Patrol to deploy. :-/

Hurons a bit more complicated tho.

altough i don't see issue with the story, what with it beeing only a snippet in the story of that chapter.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
A little corner of the grimdark. It’s a free story that likely won’t impact anything ever again, no need for the Salt Patrol to deploy. :-/

Hey, I can't talk for others, but I am definitely not salty about this story. I just like to joke about how easily Astartes fall to Chaos. Don't confuse teasing and banter with actual animosity .

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Agreed. I thought it was a cool story. No mentions of Chaos. Simply a Chapter choosing its own destiny. A little corner of the grimdark. It’s a free story that likely won’t impact anything ever again, no need for the Salt Patrol to deploy. :-/

As I learnt before War of the Beast came out, you're not allowed to like Space Marine stories. It's against the Dakka rules, apparently.

Don't make the same mistake I did Johnny. Always hate stories about Marines. Call them "bolter porn" for added effect, to show how hip and with it you are to all the other cool cats who hate Space Marine stories.

Tearjerker.

Voss wrote:

strigops wrote:

Voss wrote:
Apparently I'm confused about which supplement (Spider or Engines) is coming first.


Odd story. 'Extreme measures that we did to ourselves in secret are the fault of others, so we need spiky hats now' is a dubious chain of thought.

Becuase if they didn't, others would use extreme measures. And they woudnt limit to those who manifested powers.

Because whichever chapter this is doesn't have librarians?
Space Marine chapters can and do keep 'horrible' secrets and operate independently, and sometimes blow up inquisition ships without issue (though you have to be Space Woofs for that). Having psykers that apparently just energy blast the enemies doesn't seem to justify any of this, because this is 10,000 years after Nikea and everybody but the Black Templars have those.

Its kind of a fluff failure- its PA, so they're once again sorta vaguely trying to double down on 'psykers are a problem' thread, but librarians are so ubiquitous in SM armies that it falls flat, and the jump to chaos and full traitor thinking is just bizzarely unjustified within the story itself.

There's a difference between someone being a psyker since birth (or showing them after implantation) and trained by the chapter from induction to control and utilise those powers in as risk free manner as possible, and random people suddenly developing powers. One of those is accepted (for the most part) by the authorities i.e the Inquisition. The other gets you a fast ticket to exterminatus.

My assumption is it would have to be a mutation that has afflicted the person suddenly now able to control psychic powers and/or a deal or pact made with a chaos entity that gives you those powers. But like you said if they're grown in the chapter they're identified and screened to make sure they don't have the chaos taint.