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 trexmeyer wrote:
I've done Imrik campaigns in ME and Vortex. Not finishing ME since Clan Eshin keeps confederating with other Skaven to dodge death. Vortex was a joke even on Hard. Every army by mid game is Archers/Sisters/Sea Guard. Usually with a Noble or two on flyers, Handmaiden because why not, Loremaster for Earthblood, Fire Mage, and Lord on Dragon. Endgame is same thing + 3-5 Dragons. Final battle was a Heroic Victory with Imrik's army (Fire Mage, Life Mage, Handmaid, 2 Sisters, 5 Sea Guard, RoR Dragons, and then a couple more Sun Dragons). Life Mage is just there to heal the dragons and Handmaiden holds a couple of buffs for the Archers. The strat is literally just infantry sit outside LoS in checkers, Imrik dives the center line, Dragons breathe on the blob, Fire Mage dumps Burning Head + Flame Vortex. It's silly.

I tried Lizardmen and hated it. No artillery, short range at best, and magic seems mediocre compared to what it should be. I don't like infantry focused armies.

I always play Lizardmen as a Monster focused army. Those big dinos do big damage and their flying units are pretty strong. They do not compare to an army full of Sisters though. Sisters seriously need a nerf.

And that does look somewhat appealing, but how many turns does it take to get there? Maybe I'll give Mazdamundi a try on Vortex.

 trexmeyer wrote:
And that does look somewhat appealing, but how many turns does it take to get there? Maybe I'll give Mazdamundi a try on Vortex.

Quite a few, at least without a very structured build order and a lot of sacking. Lizard income is pretty bad, their upkeep is rough, and trying to go wide (a lot of territory) is something of a trap, as its too easy to spread money too thin.

Lizard growth is also pretty slow without buildings and tech.

For Mazda specifically, Hexoatl starts with a gold mine, but in terms of actual income, its pretty bad- 600 at level 3.

Voss wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
And that does look somewhat appealing, but how many turns does it take to get there? Maybe I'll give Mazdamundi a try on Vortex.

Quite a few, at least without a very structured build order and a lot of sacking. Lizard income is pretty bad, their upkeep is rough, and trying to go wide (a lot of territory) is something of a trap, as its too easy to spread money too thin.

Lizard growth is also pretty slow without buildings and tech.

For Mazda specifically, Hexoatl starts with a gold mine, but in terms of actual income, its pretty bad- 600 at level 3.

The upside is they are in areas with a lot of special buildings. Lots of gold mines and such in the area. Trade is pretty easy with them. But yeah, money is their biggest issue. You are going to have to do a lot of work for that. But those special spawned monsters are beefy.

Edit: Just started a game as Khemri. So if anybody knows any good strats with the Tomb Kings I would appreciate it.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I've done Imrik campaigns in ME and Vortex. Not finishing ME since Clan Eshin keeps confederating with other Skaven to dodge death. Vortex was a joke even on Hard. Every army by mid game is Archers/Sisters/Sea Guard. Usually with a Noble or two on flyers, Handmaiden because why not, Loremaster for Earthblood, Fire Mage, and Lord on Dragon. Endgame is same thing + 3-5 Dragons. Final battle was a Heroic Victory with Imrik's army (Fire Mage, Life Mage, Handmaid, 2 Sisters, 5 Sea Guard, RoR Dragons, and then a couple more Sun Dragons). Life Mage is just there to heal the dragons and Handmaiden holds a couple of buffs for the Archers. The strat is literally just infantry sit outside LoS in checkers, Imrik dives the center line, Dragons breathe on the blob, Fire Mage dumps Burning Head + Flame Vortex. It's silly.

I tried Lizardmen and hated it. No artillery, short range at best, and magic seems mediocre compared to what it should be. I don't like infantry focused armies.

Hmm .. the early game is somewhat a struggle. I pretty much always start as Kroq Gar and go for stegadon/ancient stegadon as a decent ranged altirely weapon also engine of the gods is hella fun. Unlocking a slaan takes a few turns but once you get fire magic its happy days.

With a mosnter build (feral bastiladons/stegadons - Stegadons beign the superior choice) are actualy fairly cheap earlyish game if you go full skins for the meatshield. Need life/fire magic to really make it work. Scar vets on carnosaurs are great fun. Really like the lizard campaigns esepcialy in vortex.

They can somewhat struggle against very min maxed ranged focused armies but you can counter with fats cav monsters fliers and chamelon skins to poison so they cant get away. The tool box is pretty extensive but it might take a few tries in order to get the hand of it. Very in your face kind of army. I like big dinos and I cannot lie

Think the worse match up tends to be skaven for me... Once had an epic 6v2 stack battle and all that wa sleft was a couple stegadons with few Hp points left by the end of.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

Voss wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
And that does look somewhat appealing, but how many turns does it take to get there? Maybe I'll give Mazdamundi a try on Vortex.

Quite a few, at least without a very structured build order and a lot of sacking. Lizard income is pretty bad, their upkeep is rough, and trying to go wide (a lot of territory) is something of a trap, as its too easy to spread money too thin.

Lizard growth is also pretty slow without buildings and tech.

For Mazda specifically, Hexoatl starts with a gold mine, but in terms of actual income, its pretty bad- 600 at level 3.

The upside is they are in areas with a lot of special buildings. Lots of gold mines and such in the area. Trade is pretty easy with them. But yeah, money is their biggest issue. You are going to have to do a lot of work for that. But those special spawned monsters are beefy.

Edit: Just started a game as Khemri. So if anybody knows any good strats with the Tomb Kings I would appreciate it.

It's probably too late for this advice, but if you restart or anyone is starting a new one this what I've done for Khalida/Arkhan/Settra. It's a bit cheesy though.

You should start with military building for archers. Don't upgrade it. Maybe make the income building or chariot building since chariots are at useful for rear charges and breaking morale. I actually managed to get 200+ kills on 2 chariot units cycle charging Saurus warriors in one battle and that was the only reason I won. :/

Nehekara Warriors are borderline useless. Tomb Guard aren't, but they aren't worth rushing to get. The Dynasty Lord with Tomb Guard buffs + the 2 Heralds that buff them (IIRC Deathblow and Frenzy) make them better, but they'll never carry a battle.

All you do is sit in your starting province, recruit your archers, demo that building if you need gold, get to a 20 stack, get 5k gold, get Casket of Souls. Also, get the starting Liche Priest. Using Global Recruitment this should only take 4-5 turns. At this point your army is going to be TK, LP, Casket of Souls, 4x Archers, maybe 2x Chariots, Spearmen, and your respective starting units. It will be fully capable of beating anything else you can face this early outside of the Books of Nagash armies. From here I rush a settlement, sack, occupy, move to the next one. Once I get to the last settlement of the starting enemy I'll sack it for a turn or two, maybe more, especially if I have my second TK over there with 19x Spearmen. Getting levels on your Priest is huge.

Aside from that, make sure to get another Casket of Souls off of CD and try not to lose them.

Other things.

Get Necrotects that unlock additional Sphinx, Tomb Scorpions, or Ushbati. Any other traits are worthless, just recruit and disband them if you have the money.

Banishment is probably the best offensive spell you have access to and you can't heal constructs. Spearmen/Archers/Tomb Guard are easy and quick to replace, constructs can take forever. Make sure to bring a Necrotect to heal your constructs.

Unlock the TK heal trait (red line) ASAP. It might even be more of a priority than LS.

The Rite that causes attrition gives you an additional 50% ambush chance. It is amazing for defense especially in ME as Khalida as you can lock down the two land paths into Lahmia and easily wipe out enemy armies.

Ushbati work best as flankers, TG/Spearmen should be your frontline.

I didn't see this until I had about 70ish rounds in to my campaign. But I did put your advice to good use. Casket of Souls are amazing and I hadn't made one up until that point.

I also didn't do the sack/occupy for a long time. Which is really my fault tbh, I use that tactic on other factions but didn't use it here for some reason. On the Faction that probably uses it the most.

I knew about Necrotects having special traits thankfully from a attempt before.

I am going for a Priest and Necrotect in every army I have but I wasn't sure what magic school for priests. I have been going with Nehekhara and it is working very well.

Tomb Guard seem pretty good as far as front lines go honestly. Some of the strongest melee I have seen on any of the factions really. They hold well.

 Dreadwinter wrote:
I didn't see this until I had about 70ish rounds in to my campaign. But I did put your advice to good use. Casket of Souls are amazing and I hadn't made one up until that point.

I also didn't do the sack/occupy for a long time. Which is really my fault tbh, I use that tactic on other factions but didn't use it here for some reason. On the Faction that probably uses it the most.

I knew about Necrotects having special traits thankfully from a attempt before.

I am going for a Priest and Necrotect in every army I have but I wasn't sure what magic school for priests. I have been going with Nehekhara and it is working very well.

Tomb Guard seem pretty good as far as front lines go honestly. Some of the strongest melee I have seen on any of the factions really. They hold well.

Light is the "best" because so much of TK damage is ranged and Net is great, but they all work.

Beat Vortex on Luthor (H/N). I had only played VCoast before on E/E. I had started and quit a couple of campaigns as Luthor, Noctilus, and Aranessa before settling on the last one.

A few thoughts.

The goal was to not take territory and use Pirate Coves as my source of income, which mostly worked. I only had 5 Provinces at the end and spent 90% of the campaign with only 2. I took my starting one since it's a mandatory for Unified Mind, a two settlement one nearby that had two ports and was easily defensible, Galleon's Graveyard later on (since it's the most defensible port I know of), and then two island provinces that the Order of Loremasters had.

For up until the Third Shanty fight I only had up to 5 armies, which were just the Technology Lords. Shipbuilding is amazing. I only recruited normal lords for office slots and then 1 more for the Third Shanty fight since my other armies were out of position.

I ran 3 Mortars in every army and a Gunnery Wight in most, prioritizing ammo refill trait since it gives another 35 rounds of ammunition to mortars.

Started with Handgunners, but replaced them with Deck Gunners in most armies. Not sure if Deck Gunners are necessarily better, but they seem easier to position due to their range and unit size (playing on Ultra).

Necrofex are probably the best unit in terms of killing power, but I think they're overrated to a degree. Leviathans are better in melee and are all I need to lock up the enemy army while my ranged goes to work. I did get my Noctilus run up to about 10 Necrofex with double Arcane Conduit and overcast healing spell trait (I forget the name), but it wasn't as effective as Luthor on a Terrorgheist supported by a Fleet Captain, 3x Mortars, The RoR Gun, Leviathans, and Deck Gunners/Hand Gunners.

Depth Guard (with healing) surprised me at how well they can chew through chaff.

Luthor's killing power with the right gear once he has Unified Mind is tremendous. For sieges I'd let my artillery take out a couple of towers and then work on the ranged and Luthor could take out the rest solo. I had him at 52% Ward Save at the end and he could just charge in, get blobbed, and then drop a Vargheist's Revenge on the blob. He had just shy of 700 kills in the final battle and routinely picked up 600+. Didn't crack 1k though, but I was mainly fighting High Elves and they don't have those kinds of numbers.

Vargheist's Revenge > Winds of Death, at least on Ultra, but the healing spell is almost too good to pass up. I think most of my late game armies were around 1k-1200 and I'd frequently restore upwards of 100 units (basically all the damage I took) with heals after the army loss penalty was inflicted.

Some annoyances with the VCoast roster.

1. The best artillery unit is tier 2. I never recruited the cannons. Captured one once and disbanded it. Not sure why you would ever get one when Hand Gunners/Deck Gunners can melt monsters/cavalry just fine when focusing. I had a siege where the garrison had 3 dragons and they actually flew out past the walls. 6 Deck Gunners killed one before it landed and the other two were around half health when they landed (and got chewed up by regular Depth Guard). The mortars are good, but Empire artillery is dramatically better.

2. Can't recruit RoR outside of friendly territory. Every other faction that has RoR can use them as emergency troops anywhere.

3. No cavalry. I suppose you have Deck Droppers and Rotting Prometheans...the latter are okay, but their role is also filled by Leviathans. The gunnery version of Rotting Prometheans seems pointless. As do Deck Droppers.

4. The roster is small and many units seem pointless. Mournguls, Syreens, Handcannons, the bomb throwing guys, the Deck Droppers, Bloated Corpses (with the exception of early gam raise dead) don't really provide any benefit over other units that can do the same thing. At least in SP.

5. Terrible mount options and only Luthor can access a flyer. To make matters worse, the mounts barely increase speed.

It's certainly not a weak faction, but it suffers from having a lack of viable options. Army builds are basically Necrofex spam or a gun line variant.

If anyone is curious Isabella's Flying Circus is effective and amusing. For those who don't know, Isabella unlocks two additional Vampires, starts with two, gives embedded Vampires +10 Melee Attack/+10 Melee Defense, and I think a weapon strength bonus as well...but that doesn't display in game anywhere I can see even though I see the effect. So once they go down the melee line the Vampires have 70-80 MA, 50-60 MD, 500-600 WS, 100+ armor, 80+ leadership, and a self-heal on top of Isabella's Invocation of Nehek. They can also get Dread Incarnate for -4 to enemy leadership and this effect stacks.

The one I had running at endgame was Isabella, 16 Vampires (I believe 10-11 Dread Incarnate), and 3 Varghulfs for Siege Attacker and because you need ground units to avoid some penalties. 17 Arcane Conduits with excess of 250 starting Winds of Magic. It might actually top the Imrik Dragon stack.

Debating the best Greenskins stack.

I racked up 1400~ kills on Azhag in a siege against Skaven which is the most I've gotten for any lord. This is with the special building that reduces cooldown on Death Magic spells by 20%, level 40 Azhag with maxed out melee and magic skills (not literally every spell, just the krumpin ones), 3 Orc Shaman for Arcane Conduit/Foot of Gork, and the item that reduces ability CD by 15 seconds. He had regeneration trait from Isabella, but I also had the skill.

The stack was Azhag, 3 Shaman, 4 Black Orc Big Bosses (for melee attack/LD buff, Tormentor Sword, Helm of Discord, double Glittering Scales -5 MA each), and 12 Arachnarok Spiders to include the queen. You can send Azhag onto walls to fight while the mounted Black Orcs sit below since the buffs will still apply. Black Orc Big Bosses are amazing with Arachnarok Spiders regardless. With Azhag the full temporary buffs are +40 Armor, +24 MA, and then the debuffs are -10 MA from 2x Glittering Scales (constant), -24 from Tormentor Sword, -24 from Helm of Discord (iirc). Basically you can bring any non elite/lord/hero infantry down to 0 melee attack for a time. You can even just go full melee for the hell of it since Orc Shaman give another 24 MA/24 MD and 40 MA with two spells. Goblin Shaman would make it even better with their buffs. Then Azhag can nuke enemy leadership, damage, and armor via 2 Death Spells. Lastly, you could throw 6x Scarecrow Banners on the Spiders/Black Orcs for -48 Leadership (constant) to the enemy.

In summary the temporary effects would be the following.

Buffs:

MA: +24, +24, +40, total of 88...absolutely pointless...isn't 100 the cap?
Armor: +40 total
LD: +8 (Death Spell iirc), +16 Black Orc Buff, +24 total plus the Black Orc Aura
MD: +24 total

Debuffs:
MA: -24, -24, -10 x2 Glittering Scales, -68 total
MD: No debuffs...though I think Discord and Tormentor Sword both bring it down, I just don't recall
Weapon Strength: -30% Lore of Death
Armor: -30% Lore of Death
LD: -16 (Death Spell iirc), -8 x6 Scarecrow Banners for -48, -64 total and Spiders cause terror

The numbers may be off slightly, but for about 30 seconds the combo is unkillable in melee and with 4 Black Orcs you can cycle their buff for near constant uptime.

Also, Azhag has a flyer and is the only Orc LL to get one.

In my mind, Skarsnik and Grimgor are out of the discussion for just being footsloggers. Also, not being casters hurts as well.

Wurzag is an excellent caster, has a mount, but more importantly gives the best buffs to Arachnarok Spiders in the form of 25% physical resistance. He also strips magical resistance, but Fate of Bijuana (sp?) and the Purple Sun are superior to Foot of Gork (even the cheap one) and Brainbursta IMO.

So out of the three legendary lords left.

Azhag:
Terrible Army buffs for lategame, but vanguard deployment is amazing midgame for Orc Boar Boyz as I use them to hunt artillery and casters.
To maximize his individual effectiveness you have to give up redline buffs for your army if you want Lightning Strike. This isn't that big of a deal because 3 points will be wasted at least since his stack will just be heroes/spiders.
Not unstoppable in melee like a Vlad tier character, but has Regen, 80+ MA, and 700+ WS. He is vulnerable to anti-large in lategame, but basically every top tier LL will be. As far as caster lords on flyers go I don't know who is clearly superior overall as a melee/magic hybrid.
Having a flyer means he can easily pick his battles and most importantly can wipe ranged units on walls all day.
Only way to get a Lord with Lore of Death.

Grom:
Has the best faction buffs from start to finish.
Gives all Spiders maternal instincts. Useful for at least hitting flanks/rear of the enemy.
-10% spell cooldown and +10 winds of magic. Faster Foot of Gork is better.
Chariot is good for krumping.
Can't fight on walls.
Is best when cycle charging (i.e. not sieges).
Not a spellcaster.
Will get red line buffs.

Wurzag:
Strips magic resistance.
+25% physical resistance and red line buffs for your best units.
Cheapest Foot of Gork.
Okay in melee.
Can't fight on walls.

For a doomstack I think Grom is automatically out as well. Wurzag is more a straightforward nuke 'em till they glow type, but he's mediocre in melee, and much slower than Azhag.

I think the ideal stack would be:
Azhag
2x Night Goblin Shaman for faster Arcane Conduit, Little Waagh spells
1x Orc Shaman for Arcane Conduit, Big Waagh...mainly the melee buffs if it's a choice between Foot of Gork and Purple Sun.
6x Black Orc Bosses. Keep their melee buff up constantly and hopefully have a couple of Glittering Scales, Tormentor Swords, Helms of Discord. Plus they're freaking tanks.
10x Arachnarok Spiders with 1 being the ROR Queen or swap one out of the ROR Rogue Idol.


TLDR: I used think Azhag sucked, now I'm convinced he's the best. Also Black Orc Boss stacking is silly.

There's no cap on MA. It's pretty trivial to get Tyrion over 150 MA with zero support characters or spells, and it absolutely works wonders.

Well in that case they're clearing 150-160 since Black Orcs are around 70 with traits sans items.

Anyone else get war declarations from just about everyone playing as Norsca? I've tried 3 starts with various tactics and as soon as I took Albion via confederation the Elves and Dark Elves went HAM on me.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Anyone else get war declarations from just about everyone playing as Norsca? I've tried 3 starts with various tactics and as soon as I took Albion via confederation the Elves and Dark Elves went HAM on me.

Yes. (And from Norsca- at least Vanaheimlings and World Walkers in non-Norsca games). There seems to be something about those sea zones around Albion. As soon as you have presence there, various factions become automatically aware of you and start declaring war. It happens in any game after I take Marienburg, for example.

For Norsca games, Hellebron and Karond Kar tend to be particularly aggressive about war. They often don't follow up, but they seem very coded to make the declaration, then peace out pointlessly after a while.
Louen also seems scripted to go nuts about Norsca at some point.

I have one campaign with a Wulfrik near 40, a Nurgle Lord (for regen on a mammoth) near 30, and probably a dozen mammoths between them sitting in Courenne, but it's like turn 140 and the Dark Elves are gone. I razed Har Ganeth and Karond Kar. Rictus and Nehek cleaned up Cult of Pleasure and Naggarond. Eataine is the only real Ordertide going, but they're about to drop Rictus.

I'm trying to come up with a good starting strat.

Take your starting province, maybe take out the one near Kislev, treaty Clan Moulder, wipe Kislev, head to Nordland? That should be doable by turn 30-40.

I'd actually leave Kislev alone, if at all possible. They don't really matter long term, and they've got plenty of idiots to keep them occupied these days (Moulder, Azhag, several Elector Counts, and Manfred also seems to like northwards expansion, to the point that I've seen him end up as the Bulwark against the Doomtide more often than not).

I've never played a Norsca campaign where Moulder didn't betray me the second they had a spare moment (and sometimes even when they didn't have spare moments). Going directly for the Empire and keeping the confederation wave and/or alliance network under control early seems better.

So im currently playing as rictus its my first campaign as skaven on hard in Mortal Empires.

I haven't played in that mode and corner of the map for a while. I forgot the chaos armies keep spawning in the sea right offf slavers bay.

I went east first (First mistake) and took the slavers bay and north frozen city. I left dark elves and wanted to channel them south to fight Alith anar however they just pounced around my territories and didint go conquering and the HE juggernaut just started rolling them over.

Rather then eventually get rolled over I decided to atatck the Elves when they got a bunch of their armies hbattered clearing the chaos around shrine of khaine.

Bunch of turns later theres yet another chaos spawn I forgot how annoying those were.

In hindsight I should have probably just gone to war with the dark elves as soon as I took frozen city and then the High elves would have been a buffer between me and the chaos invasions. Also I seem to be really struggling with economy. I Only really have like 2 good armies the rest is mainly chaff slinger units. My campaign is going really uphill as the ulthaun elves are now somehow throwing dragons at me left right and center.

So whats the best way to skaven ?
Holding territory or sacking/razing?
How do I maintain food ? Seems to always be on the lowest bracket..

The walls are really important but not really sure what else to build and what to focus on. My armies are mainly jezzails and ratling guns with some mortars and artillery. with a smidgen of gutter runenrs screening. warlock engineer and a spellcaster lord apart from tretchs army who has a caster as well as the warplock engineer. but it all seems very expensive.. hellpit abominations or rat ogres really don't seem worth it.

So whats the best way to skaven ?
Holding territory or sacking/razing?
How do I maintain food ? Seems to always be on the lowest bracket..

To the first... Rictus is basically hard mode for skaven. Tretch was a FLC lord before CA decided that 'crazytown' was the place for each following DLC. He doesn't even compare to the plague buffed Skrolk, let alone Skryre or Eshin. I personally like Queek more than Tretch, just for the starting neighborhood.

I tend to like a lot of sacking these days, regardless of faction. A small number of upgraded core territories is better for a while than spreading out too much. Expansion can come later after a solid core starts spitting out higher tier units. Razing I don't like, as it just makes other enemies stronger, as re-settling is too easy/cheap.

This is especially true for skaven, as food doesn't naturally ramp up until a lot of techs (without switching the full province bonuses over to food production).

Shoddy raiding armies can help with food, but mostly you want to be constantly attacking and eating fools (the natural post battle food gain, the option to pick food doesn't really give that much, though it can help in a pinch).

Building wise, specialized provinces help. Small (two city) provinces should largely just be money provinces, but growth buildings always help. Recruitment provinces depend on what you want in your army.

Army composition depends a bit on style, but you do want line units to soak losses and slow enemies so your preferred killers can get into position. Mainly jezzails and ratling guns plus mortars and artillery sounds bad to me. Not enough blocking forces to keep cavalry, monsters or even infantry armies off you. Gutter runners aren't even vaguely enough

Personally I don't bother with multiple casters, too much micro, not enough Winds of Magic.

In general for ranged attacks, I prefer arcing shots (mortars and plague catapults) over straight line weapons- TW2 just doesn't have enough elevated terrain to make the latter worthwhile, and dragging the guns into position leaves them vulnerable and takes time away from shooting.

I find rat ogres useful in reserve for their high damage AP (good for counter charging cavalry).

For Food with skaven, cheese it.

Sack cities over and over to farm food from the poor garrison, let the enemy build armies and then ambush them and wipe them out (sack city with main army > ambush stance with main army > kill any army that tries to recruit or arrives to reinforce > sack city again with cheap slave army now it has a weak garrison and broken walls > Cheap slave army goes into raid stance > repeat from step 2). Battles are your main supply of food so make sure you have a constant source of them. Although it can be tempting to spam out a ton of cheap armies, each of those armies costs food so sometimes a bit of restraint can help. If you do have a lot of armies then set them to raid, even if it is in your own territory (in a province which doesn't produce much wealth). You raid and produce food (3 per raiding army), then when it rebels you kill the rebels for more food and also some experience for your general. Lure out the betrayer-traitor, yes-yes.

Beeline to the various Monstrous/Virulent/etc. Plans techs on the technology tree if you don't have anything you are particularly working towards to help your armies. Most will give you passive food income.

With Skaven you kinda want to get into a rhythm where you are always capturing the city of a province at at least tier 3 by spending your food. So you want to make sure that you have farmed enough before you commit to taking that city. Thankfully the skaven mechanics means there is no downside to repeatedly sacking settlements and cities as you can use your food to instantly occupy them at whatever level you wish. This is very powerful and you should be using it at every opportunity you can, it really gives you an advantage in getting access to high tier buildings quicker than other races can hope to ever match. If you don't have enough food for that, then it is not time to occupy that city/settlement.

Don't expand too fast, your cities each cost food to maintain, as does the under-empire. A couple of food producing under-empire builds in cities which you won't take for a while and which will be safe from being razed (so nowhere where Chaos is likely to come a-marauding) is okay but if you go crazy on it then you'll run into food (or income from funding your food) issues. Keep an eye out for settlements with pastures or exotic creatures, these can build a building chain which produces food (pastures produces more food). The only other regular building which does so is a tier 4+ building which can only be built in cities and which only produces 1 food. Some unique buildings produce food, I think and so does corrupted Lizardmen spawning pools (though that'll be a bit of a trek for you). Make use of the +2 food provincial order thing as well, I end up with it turned on on pretty much all my provinces unless I am actively recruiting or building in one.

Voss wrote:

So whats the best way to skaven ?
Holding territory or sacking/razing?
How do I maintain food ? Seems to always be on the lowest bracket..

To the first... Rictus is basically hard mode for skaven. Tretch was a FLC lord before CA decided that 'crazytown' was the place for each following DLC. He doesn't even compare to the plague buffed Skrolk, let alone Skryre or Eshin. I personally like Queek more than Tretch, just for the starting neighborhood.

I tend to like a lot of sacking these days, regardless of faction. A small number of upgraded core territories is better for a while than spreading out too much. Expansion can come later after a solid core starts spitting out higher tier units. Razing I don't like, as it just makes other enemies stronger, as re-settling is too easy/cheap.

This is especially true for skaven, as food doesn't naturally ramp up until a lot of techs (without switching the full province bonuses over to food production).

Shoddy raiding armies can help with food, but mostly you want to be constantly attacking and eating fools (the natural post battle food gain, the option to pick food doesn't really give that much, though it can help in a pinch).

Building wise, specialized provinces help. Small (two city) provinces should largely just be money provinces, but growth buildings always help. Recruitment provinces depend on what you want in your army.

Army composition depends a bit on style, but you do want line units to soak losses and slow enemies so your preferred killers can get into position. Mainly jezzails and ratling guns plus mortars and artillery sounds bad to me. Not enough blocking forces to keep cavalry, monsters or even infantry armies off you. Gutter runners aren't even vaguely enough

Personally I don't bother with multiple casters, too much micro, not enough Winds of Magic.

In general for ranged attacks, I prefer arcing shots (mortars and plague catapults) over straight line weapons- TW2 just doesn't have enough elevated terrain to make the latter worthwhile, and dragging the guns into position leaves them vulnerable and takes time away from shooting.

I find rat ogres useful in reserve for their high damage AP (good for counter charging cavalry).

Thanks for the tips.

To be honest I am very happy with how ive built my army. Its expensive but it suits my style as It's very aggressive and I never defend. I have 2 casts of harrowing warp gale, so I can stop multiple phoenix and dragon charges. While vermintide spell and menace below will bog down any cavalry. I have unlocked lightning stike so I can carve my way through about 3 full stack high elves armies without much trouble one at a time and have the numbers left over to take a city. The overwhelming firepower the army kicks out is insane. (A rooted star dragon dies in under 3 seconds) and the mortars just obliterate any infantry. The cavalarly and lords are the biggest pain but luckily ive managed to kill most dragon princes and the elves are leaning towards phoenixes and infantry. Cav is indeed the biggest pain to deal with.
I was using suicidal warp grinders for a time to use their root ability but with the amount of archers they tend to bring to the field it doesn't work and they tend to get insta broken. One of my armies has a couple Hell Pit abominations on either flank to guard against flankers and cav but they got a huge hit box so end up taking a lot friendly fire lol. But I think its the right play. Will probably just drop the gutter runners for more ratling guns or warp lightining cannons

Its the campaign tactical/ mechanics I am not familiar with which is giving me grief.
I will try to do more sacking and consolidating my core rather than over reach. I think I was trying to avoid rebelions too much but in hindight its a food source.. Reminds me oif my DE campaign cheesing the slave economy
Next time around Id go full on and kill DE... Damn malakieth let me down big time pussyfooting around not pulling his weight.
Might just go to war with him once I beat the latest chaos wave.

Btw how does the chaos waves spawnining mechanic work ? Every how many turns is it? Its been a while since I had to deal with it.

Edit: Wiped it all out to make room for this.

I finally found out how to modify favor. It was in a Lua Script not the DB files.

I tweaked Norsca a bit. Mainly QoL changes. Slightly stronger early game, but not significantly so IMO after playing 40 turns while testing.

Changes:

- Razing settlements now grant the chosen god 9 favor, up from 6 and reduces favor
for other gods by 3, up from 2.
- Monster Hunt offerings now grant the chosen god 18 favor, up from 12 and reduces favor
for other gods by 6, up from 4.

Norsca Marauder Chieftain Traits have been changed to give the following. Each Chaos God has a total of 9 points to
invest with the final trait locking out the others. i.e. you can get Pestilence of the Crow (Regen) but not Sorcery
of the Eagle. In the base game you can only get bonuses from a single Chaos God.

Values were chosen based on their favored numbers. Khorne is 8, Slaanesh is 6, Nurgle is 7, Tzeentch is 9.

Khorne (The Hound) Bonuses:
Charge Bonus: 24
Weapon Strength: 8
Melee Attack: 16
AP Damage: 16

Slaanesh (The Serpent) Bonuses:
Health: 12
Fatigue Resistance: -30
Melee Attack: 12
Leadership: 12

Nurgle (The Crow) Bonuses:
Physical Resistance: 14
Weapon Strength: 7
Melee Defense: 14
Health: 7

Tzeentch (The Eagle) Bonuses:
Magic Resistance: 9
Speed: 9
Armor: 18
Ward Save: 9

Only The Eagle's final ability has been changed. It now gives Fate of Bijuna (same version as Azrik the Maze Keeper) and
+15 Winds of Magic Reserve. The reserve is to largely cover the cost of one cast (22 WoM) as the previous ability was
Bound Fireball with 4 casts.

Norsca major settlement main buildings give an additional 10 Income and 10 Growth.
Norsca minor settlement main buildings give an additional 5 Income and 5 Growth.
Loot Piles give an additional 10 Growth.
Ports give an additional 5 Growth.
This translates to an additional 40 Growth for the World Walker's starting province.

Outposts have not been touched.

All Chaos Gods give an additional favour effect at rank 1 Favor.

Crow: 10% Physical Resistance
Hound: 10 Melee Attack
Serpent: 10% Speed
Eagle: 10% Magic Resistance

Serpent rank 2 bonus of +5 to Lord recruit rank increased to +8.

I'm considering changing all the bonuses to reflect their favored numbers however.

Range for Throwing Axes and Javelins has been increased from 80 and 90, respectively, to 90 and 100. Damage has been slightly
increased for each.

Marauder Chieftains have had their base defense increased from 40 to 45 when on foot or on a horse.
Marauder Chieftains have had their HP increased to 4400 when on foot, up from 4260.

Working on giving Azrik the Maze Keeper optional skills. Removed his starting ones, but kept the Lore of Metal and Death.

Image won't embed.
https://imgur.com/9TzCu8H

Edit: I realize his default skill is redundant with the two Loremaster traits. Not sure what else to do. It's simple enough to swap out unique line skills. Working on giving him a unique weapon.

So I didn't realize Vashnaar's Conquest was notable until googling his lore after killing him once again. I don't know if he's weaker now because I've never personally had a problem with him, but apparently he used/still does run rampant through the game at times. I have witness him conquer middle Lustria once or twice, which is hilarious.

The only other particularly odd thing I've seen was when playing Court of Lybaras on ME VH. I quit the game around turn 150ish at strength rank 3/4. Sylvania was number 1 and had destroyed the Empire. Literally, every Imperial faction outside of the Golden Order was gone and the Golden Order was a few turns from death. Von Carsten was still alive and independent. Grimgor was number 2 and had trashed Karaz-a-Karak and Clan Eshin. The strongest dwarf faction left was Greybeard's Prospectors. Bretonnia only had their Araby Crusade holdings. Everything else was Clan Rictus/World Walkers/Sylvania.

First time I've seen Empire and Dwarves both get stomped out by the AI.

It does look like this thread is dead. :/

I ran through a VH on Norsca (Wulfrik) and then a H as Clan Angrund and a VH as Ungrim.

Norsca actually feels stronger than either Angrund or Ungrim. Just to summarize.

Norsca:
Ranged is lacking, but you have very good anti-large range in javelins.
Skin Wolves are pretty solid flankers/anti-large flankers.
Infernal Dominance stacking can get silly.
You have access to Fire Magic which is IMO the best school of magic.
Lords lack skill options, but red/blue line buffs are critical for basically every non caster lord so melee self buffs aren't that important. Big thing is you get Mammoths with Regen, +15% Missile Resistance, and +15% Weapon Strength.
The Dragon Ogre's Horn and Unidentified Hydra head will wipe swarmed infantry when combined. I've literally kill 800+ by sending in my lord with those to get swarmed and popping both.
Monster Hunts in general are one of the most fun and rewarding faction features. Some rewards are mediocre, but I prefer it to just crafting.
3x Skin Wolf Werekin (might be 4x) can stack all 3 (might be 4) levels of the MA attack buff. This combined with disbanding until you get Infernal Dominance leads to stupid MA values. My Wulfrik stack had Mammoths buffed in excess of 120 MA.
Marauder Horsemasters are actually decent as harassment units and with full buffs get pretty solid missile damage.
The tech you gain from capturing capitals snowballs quick. I had captured all of them except for 2-3.
You control when Archaon arrives, thus no Ordertide.

The early game trick is to level up 2 Lords while not confederating any Norscan faction with Albion. I beat up on Norsca for a long minute before sniping Couronne and then Altdorf a few turns later. After that it turned into a snowball where I just focused on preventing counterattacks while clearing out Reikland and sniping other capitols for tech. I won the campaign after the final challenger. I think trying to buddy up with Archaon to win is a mistake.

Dwarves meanwhile:
Artillery outside of Organ Guns (which are amazing) is unimpressive.
Runesmiths/Runelords are really only good for the DR rune and the slow rune.
Generic Lords are markedly inferior to Norscan lords.
Painfully slow unless you stack Engineers and then only your ranged are fast. You can really only do this with one army, but that army will wreck. (70 speed, 247 missile damage rangers)
Slayers are questionable picks outside of Ungrim's army. With Ungrim they're silly.
No magic hurts a lot and MR is not valuable (imo) at all in SP because the AI doesn't make good use of magic.
The greatest strength is that you are part of the Order Tide. On both Angrund and Ungrim I helped out allies, avoided confederation except to fill out a province here or there, and just focused on the objectives. Whereas with Norsca I was #1 in strength from basically turn 60-70 onwards. I never reached that point on Dwarves.
Some gear combos are amazing. Every character can get 8 HP regen with no downsides, perfect vigor, and cause terror. They become very tanky.
Grudgethrowers have a horrific firing arc for sieges. It might be the worst one I've dealt with yet.

I feel like Dwarves used to be strong, but got left behind with the power creep. Their rune crafting, which should be vital, doesn't even exist. Ungrim was fun and Angrund was as well until I took Eight Peaks, but they don't seem like they've been updated in a while.

Alot of the older races needed an update more then dwarfs, that the orks got one that is Fun and works for them is by no means a small thing aswell.

Also you are stuck to deal with skaven, which are with their hordes a Real pain in the ass.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Alot of the older races needed an update more then dwarfs, that the orks got one that is Fun and works for them is by no means a small thing aswell.

Also you are stuck to deal with skaven, which are with their hordes a Real pain in the ass.

Wasn't Warhammer just the following?

The Empire (Better than Dwarves in everything other than melee infantry...I think...maybe Greatswords are comparable to Hammerers)
The Greenskins (Worse range by far, but better elsewhere)
Vampire Counts (No range, but they're incredibly strong)
Beastmen (bad)
Warriors of Chaos (not bad so much as the Horde mechanic needs a rework and they're facing an uphill battle by fighting basically everyone)
Wood Elves (getting the next DLC)

Edit: Now, I do dislike fighting the AI Dwarves, but I think that's primarily due to the following: they confederate quickly and constantly, magic resistance is much better for the AI in SP than the player, and they're part of the Ordertide.

 trexmeyer wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Alot of the older races needed an update more then dwarfs, that the orks got one that is Fun and works for them is by no means a small thing aswell.

Also you are stuck to deal with skaven, which are with their hordes a Real pain in the ass.

Wasn't Warhammer just the following?

The Empire (Better than Dwarves in everything other than melee infantry...I think...maybe Greatswords are comparable to Hammerers)
The Greenskins (Worse range by far, but better elsewhere)
Vampire Counts (No range, but they're incredibly strong)
Beastmen (bad)
Warriors of Chaos (not bad so much as the Horde mechanic needs a rework and they're facing an uphill battle by fighting basically everyone)
Wood Elves (getting the next DLC)

Edit: Now, I do dislike fighting the AI Dwarves, but I think that's primarily due to the following: they confederate quickly and constantly, magic resistance is much better for the AI in SP than the player, and they're part of the Ordertide.

Norsca was added to the first game when the second game was released.

I think they're in a better spot than Dwarves despite the lack of unit variety.

I finnaly got around to fighting as norsca.

My first run of the campaing was ok. But the armies need really high tier units to have a chance against Bretonia or empire and thats just too expensive.

Ended up just droping out, I was beating DE and bretonia soundly but then the empire decided to join in and I just couldint afford to recruit another high tier army.. Probably could have salvaged the campaign but it just wasnt enjoyable.

I found even with constant sacking/raiding I was struggling to fight on 3 fronts.

Marauders /trolls are just straight up terrible and thats what you are stuck with trying to win vs high mobility brets who are just constantly attacking in small bands which is annoying as heck...