Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MaxT wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Stu can say all he wants but it's a lie and we know it just based on them saying the last few Awakening books were written with 9th in mind.

Eh? Started work doesn’t equal finished. They started on 9th late 2018, I.e. 18 months ago. The last few awakening books can be written with 9th in mind based on the progress they’d made in that time. In no way are these 2 statements contradictory.

If that were the case you'd find the AdMech points pretty low with an Intercessor compared to the Calvary or flying guys, so yes they're lying through their teeth.

Different editions with different points costs. 9th will be messing with points quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of that addressed.

Also the timeline fits with what we know of their regular dev time, so I fail to see how they could be lying here.

They could've messed with those points with the newest Awakening books then instead of what they're attempting in order to make it a partly wasted purchase. It's GW quickly invalidating printed material as per usual for the last couple of editions.

those points are for 8th edition, remember we would have possiably had 4-6 months of play with that stuff if not for corvid. should they have published that stuff and told us "wait for 4 months and we'll get around to putting it online"?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MaxT wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Stu can say all he wants but it's a lie and we know it just based on them saying the last few Awakening books were written with 9th in mind.

Eh? Started work doesn’t equal finished. They started on 9th late 2018, I.e. 18 months ago. The last few awakening books can be written with 9th in mind based on the progress they’d made in that time. In no way are these 2 statements contradictory.

If that were the case you'd find the AdMech points pretty low with an Intercessor compared to the Calvary or flying guys, so yes they're lying through their teeth.

Different editions with different points costs. 9th will be messing with points quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of that addressed.

Also the timeline fits with what we know of their regular dev time, so I fail to see how they could be lying here.

They could've messed with those points with the newest Awakening books then instead of what they're attempting in order to make it a partly wasted purchase. It's GW quickly invalidating printed material as per usual for the last couple of editions.

So they should release book with invalid point values? Had they put 9th ed points on book it would have been invalid for 8th. You do realize it was released during 8th? It's fairly obvious so i thought all knew it but...

Forgebane released with incorrect points during 8th...it's not unprecedented

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Better box image from WHC:

No washed out details like on the steam.

Ok I know Primaris are supposed to be taller and all, but this scale creep is really getting out of hand.

blaktoof wrote:
Forgebane released with incorrect points during 8th...it's not unprecedented

Yes. But intentionally putting wrong ones is another thing. He's saying they should put NINTH edition points to book released during EIGHT. ie you could not play with correct points in 8th because GW intentionally(not mistakenly) puts different editions point values there.

 AduroT wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Better box image from WHC:

Spoiler:

No washed out details like on the steam.

Ok I know Primaris are supposed to be taller and all, but this scale creep is really getting out of hand.

He's just been eating his Wheaties is all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Forgebane released with incorrect points during 8th...it's not unprecedented

Yes. But intentionally putting wrong ones is another thing. He's saying they should put NINTH edition points to book released during EIGHT. ie you could not play with correct points in 8th because GW intentionally(not mistakenly) puts different editions point values there.

Not to mention Engine War was likely off to print before 9th was done being playtested knowing the sort of lead time GW's been running.

tneva82 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MaxT wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Stu can say all he wants but it's a lie and we know it just based on them saying the last few Awakening books were written with 9th in mind.

Eh? Started work doesn’t equal finished. They started on 9th late 2018, I.e. 18 months ago. The last few awakening books can be written with 9th in mind based on the progress they’d made in that time. In no way are these 2 statements contradictory.

If that were the case you'd find the AdMech points pretty low with an Intercessor compared to the Calvary or flying guys, so yes they're lying through their teeth.

Different editions with different points costs. 9th will be messing with points quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of that addressed.

Also the timeline fits with what we know of their regular dev time, so I fail to see how they could be lying here.

They could've messed with those points with the newest Awakening books then instead of what they're attempting in order to make it a partly wasted purchase. It's GW quickly invalidating printed material as per usual for the last couple of editions.

So they should release book with invalid point values? Had they put 9th ed points on book it would have been invalid for 8th. You do realize it was released during 8th? It's fairly obvious so i thought all knew it but...

at this point I think we can conclude slayer-fan just wants something, anything, to complain about

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

MaxT wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Stu can say all he wants but it's a lie and we know it just based on them saying the last few Awakening books were written with 9th in mind.

Eh? Started work doesn’t equal finished. They started on 9th late 2018, I.e. 18 months ago. The last few awakening books can be written with 9th in mind based on the progress they’d made in that time. In no way are these 2 statements contradictory.

If that were the case you'd find the AdMech points pretty low with an Intercessor compared to the Calvary or flying guys, so yes they're lying through their teeth.

Different editions with different points costs. 9th will be messing with points quite a bit so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of that addressed.

Also the timeline fits with what we know of their regular dev time, so I fail to see how they could be lying here.

They could've messed with those points with the newest Awakening books then instead of what they're attempting in order to make it a partly wasted purchase. It's GW quickly invalidating printed material as per usual for the last couple of editions.

So they should release book with invalid point values? Had they put 9th ed points on book it would have been invalid for 8th. You do realize it was released during 8th? It's fairly obvious so i thought all knew it but...

at this point I think we can conclude slayer-fan just wants something, anything, to complain about

I guess every group needs a Grinch.

blaktoof wrote:
Forgebane released with incorrect points during 8th...it's not unprecedented

And the Wolf/Ork PA book released with already out of date Marine doctrine rules, as these books are written months and months in advance.

BrianDavion wrote:

at this point I think we can conclude slayer-fan just wants something, anything, to complain about

it is just that the argument "written with next edition in mind" is a marketing trick to get people to buy a product for the current game

and some people really believe it that "with next edition in min" means something "no update for next edition needed", while in reality it just means "we already knew that a new edition is on the way while writing that book but everyting in it is still made for the current edtion"

I'd need to go back but I'm almost positive that they said 9th was written with PA in mind and not the other way around.

 kodos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

at this point I think we can conclude slayer-fan just wants something, anything, to complain about

it is just that the argument "written with next edition in mind" is a marketing trick to get people to buy a product for the current game

and some people really believe it that "with next edition in min" means something "no update for next edition needed", while in reality it just means "we already knew that a new edition is on the way while writing that book but everyting in it is still made for the current edtion"

Better test of claim is does day 1 errata affect the rules besides points.

Hell points are better of having on along with rest of ad mech 9th ed points. Who wants to multiple sources to cross reference anyway?

Edition changes are always bumpy to existing codexes.

Heck I recall in 5th when the Black Templar codex was half errata and half actual book.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd need to go back but I'm almost positive that they said 9th was written with PA in mind and not the other way around.

they also said that they have a crazy idea every 60 seconds and 9th was the possibility to put all those inti the game

but "written with next edition in mind" is nothing new and was used for marketing to sell soon outdated books, as well as an excuse why a faction is not working/balanced, since end of 3rd.

 kodos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd need to go back but I'm almost positive that they said 9th was written with PA in mind and not the other way around.

they also said that they have a crazy idea every 60 seconds and 9th was the possibility to put all those inti the game

but "written with next edition in mind" is nothing new and was used for marketing to sell soon outdated books, as well as an excuse why a faction is not working/balanced, since end of 3rd.

Written with the past edition in mind presents the claim that they're not going to completely invalidate the books via rules changes like some past editions have. It also means we should see that "foot in both editions but bad at both" nonsense we've seen in the past.

We'll see, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now at least.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'd need to go back but I'm almost positive that they said 9th was written with PA in mind and not the other way around.

they also said that they have a crazy idea every 60 seconds and 9th was the possibility to put all those inti the game

but "written with next edition in mind" is nothing new and was used for marketing to sell soon outdated books, as well as an excuse why a faction is not working/balanced, since end of 3rd.

Written with the past edition in mind presents the claim that they're not going to completely invalidate the books via rules changes like some past editions have. It also means we should see that "foot in both editions but bad at both" nonsense we've seen in the past.

We'll see, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now at least.

I fear that will be the problem for factions with older codexes, even with pa and "2" editions. For some, new codexes won't be able to come fast enough.

They also said the 9th edition Codexes will see some (but not all) PA (and Vigilus) material included in the new Codex.

So I assume it'll be similar to the post-Shadowspear Space Marine Codex incorporating some stuff from Vigilus (e.g. Veteran Intercessors, some Bolter strats, etc..), while Vigilus technically remained valid.

So the 9th Edition Marine Codex will almost certainly include some stuff from Faith & Fury, without (it seems) technically invalidating Faith & Fury (aside from the things that are just ported directly over).

Sunny Side Up wrote:
They also said the 9th edition Codexes will see some (but not all) PA (and Vigilus) material included in the new Codex.

So I assume it'll be similar to the post-Shadowspear Space Marine Codex incorporating some stuff from Vigilus (e.g. Veteran Intercessors, some Bolter strats, etc..), while Vigilus technically remained valid.

So the 9th Edition Marine Codex will almost certainly include some stuff from Faith & Fury, without (it seems) technically invalidating Faith & Fury (aside from the things that are just ported directly over).

that'd be my guess, my guess would be, marine specificly the strats to make a libby or a chaplain a master of the chapter will be taken in, but they won't bother with the relics.

And above all some of the best stuff will be left out so everybody has inclination to buy PA books still if they didn't have already. Why sell 1 book when you can sell 2?

tneva82 wrote:
And above all some of the best stuff will be left out so everybody has inclination to buy PA books still if they didn't have already. Why sell 1 book when you can sell 2?

They said they wanted to keep the best stuff when they updated books, presumably the intent is to discontinue old rules after they update said books and make them no longer legal for matched play at least.

tneva82 wrote:
And above all some of the best stuff will be left out so everybody has inclination to buy PA books still if they didn't have already. Why sell 1 book when you can sell 2?

The People that haven't bought PA yet are probably not that competitive that they would really be concerned about missing a good rule or two. And new players will probably never know that they miss something. So I really don't see any conspiracy on GWs side t9 sell more PAs

Ragnar69 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
And above all some of the best stuff will be left out so everybody has inclination to buy PA books still if they didn't have already. Why sell 1 book when you can sell 2?

The People that haven't bought PA yet are probably not that competitive that they would really be concerned about missing a good rule or two. And new players will probably never know that they miss something. So I really don't see any conspiracy on GWs side t9 sell more PAs

You really expect new player to army not hear about book on sale? Especially in GW stores when the staff will be doing market speech...

And this isn't just noob players but any veteran who starts new army. Might be shocking to you but existing players do start new armies and shock horror not everybody buys PA book "just in case" when they release. For me books 1, 2, 3 and 4 were 100% pointless with my current armies. However if I start say blood angels or tyranids I would need to get PA.

There's no harm for GW to keep some stuff out of codex and in separate book to be sold to players.

The big issue with leaving all these legacy rules in play is you end up with the same nonsense that is IF seige breaker centurions with full rerolls, exploding dice and MW output thats insane but GW wont consider in the codex balance yet won't update the errata for as it's just a campaign book. Its a mess of half legit choices, some removed and a bunch of grey area in between.

GW has proven time and time again they struggle to think through all the combos and interactions. If they keep a bunch of legacy supliments valid after 9th edition codex's your going to need more books and errata than 8th and that's already a rediculous amount.

What is today's preview about ? Does anyone know ?

Hopefully closing this thread.

Vehicles and Tanks, according to their FB post.

First big important bit regarding tanks+monsters firing during combat:
-1 to hit when firing during combat, no blast weapons.

Tanks AND Monsters today.

Tanks/monsters can shoot at a unit that's engaged with them @ -1 to hit.

No blast weapons in melee range.

You can declare targets even outside of things you're in combat with, but if you can't kill the unit you're engaged with then you can't shoot the units you declared against who you're not engaged with.

Example: A Leman Russ declares it's flamers against hormagaunts and its battle cannon on something else, if the hormagaunts don't all die then the battle cannon can't shoot the other target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadnoughts, and Deff Dreads were both named as being able to shoot and fight in melee, as were Daemon Engines, so it looks to apply to all vehicles and monsters.

Sounds sensible to me. And as they said, makes Dreadnoughts and Monstrous Creatures pretty scary.

Blogging down Dreads has long been a solid tactic - but now they belt you in the face, and shoot you in the knee, they’re pretty efficient.

Yet, bog them down with the right unit (arguments sake Grots, Conscripts or Cultists) and you’re still forcing them to duff up chaff over more choice units.

Several online BR channels (with one especially that is now known to be a playtester) have said that they 'thought" Codex Space marines 2.0 and Sisters of battle "felt" like 9th edition codexes compared to others. Just the way the armies were organized to encourage mono play. So it's not unrealistic to believe that some of the content of the PA Books was created with 9th in mind.