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 Tomsug wrote:
Beardragon - good point, bad explanation on my side, sorry....

I do expect to kill something with the boyz. My boyz kill opponents GEQ infantry used to capture the objective. So they competeing with the same rank.

I do not expect boyz kills anything tough like elite infantry, or vehicles.

Plus the grots die even much much faster and do not have the obsec via deathskulls. T4 6++ holds more than T2 6+....

Sometimes I give the boy nob a killsaw or PK. This is the only weapon, that do something... sometimes. If I have some points left, this is the way. And of course tankbusta bomb, it ' a for free, so why not give it a try...

I like to use 10 boyz with 4 double killsaw meganobs in battlewagon. The boyz are just there to deliver the bossnob with his double killsaw. 4 attacks with with deathskull reroll is pretty good against most elite infantry. The meganobz go for the heavier trargets.

Hey guys. For my first battle using killa kanz (4 of them) today would you suggest Sparkly bits for that extra killy at range, or Dirty gubbinz for that extra survivability?

Or perhabs even orkymatic pistons for movement?

All 4 runs around with rokkit launchers, 2 of them have klaws, 2 of them have buzzsaws

 Vineheart01 wrote:
nauts are considerably larger than armigers.
Theyre actually not much smaller than knights

Game-wise they compare best to LRBT, land raiders, defilers or greater deamons. I really don't think they have any business being lords of war, and it would ruin GW's vision of 2-3 of them being the center of an ork army that can be seen on multiple promotional pictures. They are already on the verge of being competitive, so I don't think they need any big changes.

Agreed.

If anything, get the Duty Eternal treatment (which perhaps is related to the Walkerz keyword we saw?) because a naut is still pretty easy to pop unless the 5++ luck is with you.

Otherwise, nauts are fine. Granted im not in a hyper competitive environment, just semi-competitive, and my morkanaut is usually the hero of my games lol

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys. For my first battle using killa kanz (4 of them) today would you suggest Sparkly bits for that extra killy at range, or Dirty gubbinz for that extra survivability?

Or perhabs even orkymatic pistons for movement?

All 4 runs around with rokkit launchers, 2 of them have klaws, 2 of them have buzzsaws

Probably depends on how you plan to use them. What does the rest of your list look like?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Agreed.

If anything, get the Duty Eternal treatment (which perhaps is related to the Walkerz keyword we saw?) because a naut is still pretty easy to pop unless the 5++ luck is with you.

Otherwise, nauts are fine. Granted im not in a hyper competitive environment, just semi-competitive, and my morkanaut is usually the hero of my games lol

Based on what we see for Wraithseers, I don't think Ork vehicles will get -1 damage.

Ramshackle, though, seems likely for all Ork vehicles, based on the FW index.

That too would be nice.

Nothing would make me happier than saying that lucky 6 damaging lascannon did 1 damage to my mork lol

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
nauts are considerably larger than armigers.
Theyre actually not much smaller than knights

Game-wise they compare best to LRBT, land raiders, defilers or greater deamons. I really don't think they have any business being lords of war, and it would ruin GW's vision of 2-3 of them being the center of an ork army that can be seen on multiple promotional pictures. They are already on the verge of being competitive, so I don't think they need any big changes.

They easily were until the specialist detachment changes. So much accurate dakka.

 DrGiggles wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys. For my first battle using killa kanz (4 of them) today would you suggest Sparkly bits for that extra killy at range, or Dirty gubbinz for that extra survivability?

Or perhabs even orkymatic pistons for movement?

All 4 runs around with rokkit launchers, 2 of them have klaws, 2 of them have buzzsaws

Probably depends on how you plan to use them. What does the rest of your list look like?

Hey man, just had my battle. It was against a space marine player (dunno what chapter, he was black and white) and i won. God what an important victory, that marks 3 in a row. 2 against a death guard player and once against a space marine boy.

My 2000 point army consists of:



I had first turn, and did okay'ish in turn one (i always hate the entirety of turn 1, its like i only know what im doing by turn 2). When turn 2 started, i had basically lost all my boyz, but luckily 5 boyz remained of my 20 skarboyz so they got Da green tide'd in turn 2.

By the time it was his turn, in turn 2, my Killa Kanz with sparkly bitz, my mek gun and my Grot tanks had destroyed 2 dreadnought looking space marine walkers (i dont play space marine so i dont know their names) and a weird tank that had a 5+ invul save (think he called it an assault transport). When those 3 units died in round 2 suddenly i felt like the game could be won again.

By the end of my turn 3 the game was already over, all his vehicles were gone and i had taken out most things capable of doing any harm. Ghaz was down to 4 wounds by turn 2 but i managed to heal him to 7 in turn 3 so he was somewhat ready to krump again, by medi squig + a painboy combo.

I dont know about you guys but i always get the feeling when im on turn 1 and my opponent starts out that the battle is absolutely hopeless. Yet somehow ive just managed to get a victory anyway. In this game my Grot tanks, Killa kanz, and Mek Gun were absolute MVPs. They shreddeed those tanks like paper, and due to my Grot mob culture, i was able to reroll my pesky 1s; they also thinned out a bit of the space marine models.

This isnt an ideal army, it just happen to be what i have but i kinda like it.

Im not very good at using my Mega Nobz in trukks though. on turn one i hid them behind a house for obscuring because i was afraid i would waste them, but that only resulted in them getting to the battle so late they literally hit nothing. Drove them out in turn 2 but most dangerous things were already dead by then. So i moved up and only got the mega nobz out by turn 3 but again, nothing much to really kill. Generally either i send the trukk in first to die and my Mega nobz afterwards, or i send it in too late in fear of it dying that ive wasted all the points on bringing them because i dont use them at all.

My Nobz in general also dont seem to really do anything except being a bullet sponge.

Beardedragon wrote:
Im not very good at using my Mega Nobz in trukks though. on turn one i hid them behind a house for obscuring because i was afraid i would waste them, but that only resulted in them getting to the battle so late they literally hit nothing. Drove them out in turn 2 but most dangerous things were already dead by then. So i moved up and only got the mega nobz out by turn 3 but again, nothing much to really kill. Generally either i send the trukk in first to die and my Mega nobz afterwards, or i send it in too late in fear of it dying that ive wasted all the points on bringing them because i dont use them at all.

Maybe have the KFF join the MANZ on the Trukk to give it some protection. And most crucially; target saturation. Present the opponent with as many targets as possible. Don´t hide everything but a thing or two. Either hide everything, most likely impossible, or rather present a bold and broad front, stressing the opponent so he down prioritizes killing the MANZ-Trukk.

It sounds like you already have this with the mechanized gunline shooting up his armour. Keep doing that and just send stuff forward at the same time.

A question about the Nobz. Are they riding the Chinork? I don´t get why they get shot up so easily.

 Scactha wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Im not very good at using my Mega Nobz in trukks though. on turn one i hid them behind a house for obscuring because i was afraid i would waste them, but that only resulted in them getting to the battle so late they literally hit nothing. Drove them out in turn 2 but most dangerous things were already dead by then. So i moved up and only got the mega nobz out by turn 3 but again, nothing much to really kill. Generally either i send the trukk in first to die and my Mega nobz afterwards, or i send it in too late in fear of it dying that ive wasted all the points on bringing them because i dont use them at all.

Maybe have the KFF join the MANZ on the Trukk to give it some protection. And most crucially; target saturation. Present the opponent with as many targets as possible. Don´t hide everything but a thing or two. Either hide everything, most likely impossible, or rather present a bold and broad front, stressing the opponent so he down prioritizes killing the MANZ-Trukk.

It sounds like you already have this with the mechanized gunline shooting up his armour. Keep doing that and just send stuff forward at the same time.

A question about the Nobz. Are they riding the Chinork? I don´t get why they get shot up so easily.

Hey friend. My Nobz were not in the Chinork, i just use the Chinork with free rattler kannons as a gunship. But i think you have a point, i really need to re-evaluate what units i have visible on turn one. As it stands right now its mainly just boyz that are visible. Also i need to better position myself, which units are near the KFF and which are not. Sadly the KFF isnt big enough to both protect MANZ, Nobz, Killa kanz and grot tanks. I should probably invest in 2 KFFs.But that would also mean i had to remove 75 points worth of something. i guess my Chinork would go as its legend anyway now.


The Nobz dont necessarily "just" die, i just dont have enough transports to really use them properly ( want a battlewagon for my MANZ and the Trukk for Nobz). And sometimes i fail my Da Jump to get them across the field, but before that i hide them in obscuring places to avoid them dying, so they're fresh when they get to the field. Im sort of dependant on that Da Jump.

I never just footslug my Nobz forward, again because i fear they get killed. So yea, i hide them, and da jump them. Sometimes it works, other times it.. doesnt. This battle it worked but my charge failed sadly. Resulting in them taking up all the fire on the left side of the board. i guess at that point it was pretty good as the space marines attacked nothing else near there. They were also charged by space marines with chainswords, which resulted in my turn 3 being my Deff Dreads turn to run up and charge them.

So i guess in that sense my Nobz did take up a lot of fire, and set up kills for me in the next round, but they didnt attack anyone.


In my previous battle against a death guard, they got da jump'ed near a predator, had a successful charge, but still failed to kill their target. So even when i manage to get where i need, i dont always get the result im after. It makes me wonder if Nobz are really that useful considering a nob with big choppa is like 22 points or something, where as a boy with a choppa is only 8. Or maybe my Nobz should have been a secondary group of Mega nobz i dont know.

I have a serious doubt about Nobz like you. It' s all or nothing. Boyz or MANz. Nobz has cons form boths.

I use Big Choppa Nobz just in killteam. But they shine there!

 Tomsug wrote:
I have a serious doubt about Nobz like you. It' s all or nothing. Boyz or MANz. Nobz has cons form boths.

I use Big Choppa Nobz just in killteam. But they shine there!

Thats what im starting to think as well. I have Nobz because my start collecting orks + Prophecy of the wolf package. I guess the Nobz will be the ones that will be replaced first with what ever i have coming next.

Sadly i only have this 20k army, i have nothing to replace them with as it stands.

Keep the nobz models. I used 2 or 3 packs of them already to kitbash kommando nobz, boyz nobz and big meks with kff etc. These sprues are gold for spare parts.

 Tomsug wrote:
Keep the nobz models. I used 2 or 3 packs of them already to kitbash kommando nobz, boyz nobz and big meks with kff etc. These sprues are gold for spare parts.

true, my ony KFF big mek is a Nob body with the KFF package from Mega nobz, + the mega nob big mek helmet on.

But i cant really convert them well in to anything at this point. they are already modelled and painted.

I think Nobs are getting a bit of a buff in our next 'dex so it's probably worth holding onto them.

My thought with nobs is to keep them near a KFF as AP-2 will cripple their weedy 4+ saves. Then have half of them cheap and half of them loaded up on killsaws, and then if half the unit makes it to combat, then they will probably kill what they're combatting.

If you can have models in a transport, do. Even if you are planning on footslogging anyway, or walking to an objective, you get extra protection and a 3" extra movement from disembarking. Warkoptas were an excellent means to deliver small CC units, It'll be a shame to see them go. I really hope we get some plastic airforce, with flying transports. Maybe keyed around stormboys, allowing them to disembark after a move but then not move any further, at potential cost to stormboy life. I love the idea of a flyer with 20 stormboys inside...

Quote from Jidmahs' p1 post

Nobz Despite not being terrible, Nobz struggle to find a place between MANz and boyz. Dual Killsaws, Big Choppas and double choppas are the preferred loadouts. Equipping multiple combi weapons cost too much for what you get. Be aware that ammo runts might trigger blast rules.

Sums it up well. They struggle being a multi purpose platform, but to squishy to utilize it.

E.g. if Skorchas got 12" range like Imperium gear ther´d be more of a case for them. Jumped forward, Skorchas to soften the opponent and charge.

I believe they suffer from the game getting increasingly lethal. Notice how Marines started in RT and now we have Primaris. It´s an ever expanding arms race which creates imbalance between Dexes due to the long production times

 some bloke wrote:
I think Nobs are getting a bit of a buff in our next 'dex so it's probably worth holding onto them.

My thought with nobs is to keep them near a KFF as AP-2 will cripple their weedy 4+ saves. Then have half of them cheap and half of them loaded up on killsaws, and then if half the unit makes it to combat, then they will probably kill what they're combatting.

If you can have models in a transport, do. Even if you are planning on footslogging anyway, or walking to an objective, you get extra protection and a 3" extra movement from disembarking. Warkoptas were an excellent means to deliver small CC units, It'll be a shame to see them go. I really hope we get some plastic airforce, with flying transports. Maybe keyed around stormboys, allowing them to disembark after a move but then not move any further, at potential cost to stormboy life. I love the idea of a flyer with 20 stormboys inside...

Ive been using foot Nobz quite a bit for Crusade (using pts instead of PL) and you really need a Waaagh! Banner Nob to support them. I just find that my killsaws never connect. To start with I ran them as 5, 3 with double choppas, 2 killsaws on the Boss and a big choppa and choppa Nob. They then had 2 Ammo Runts as ablative wounds to eat a autocannon or plasma gun. I would run them alongside my Warboss with brutal but kunnin, killaklaw and da biggest boss and a KFF Big Mek.

Now I know, crusade is super small scales games but my club is FULL of marines. We have Blood Angels, 2x Space Wolves, Deathwatch, White Scars, Blazen Claws (Iron Hands), Soul Drinkers (Imperial Fists) and 3 x Ultra Marines. I host and organise the Crusade, do all the rules and queries and we have 27 players. Its played more competitively than youd think.

But the Nobz have always in my 18 games of 9th reached combat. If you want them to reach combat you can pretty much ensure it in your list building, be it Da Jump, Teleported, Trukk/Battlewagon, whatever it is. I just dont see good returns on their damage. My latest iteration is 3 dual killsaw Nobz, 2 big choppa and choppa Nobz then 5 dual choppa Nobz with 2 Ammo Runts.

Ive played enough games to not care about Blast weapons. If someone wants your unit dead, they will kill it. If you play smart and do everything you can to get that first engagement you will get them to charge. I just dont feel like Nobz hit hard enough for their cost/force org slot. Marines throw out more attacks with better synergies than what Nobz can ever dream to get whilst also having better AP/Damage.

A Nob should be terrifying. And that should be reflected in their datasheet. Id like to see more attacks across the board, more bite to chopppas, a Boss Nob who actual adds something to the unit that isnt just leadership 7. Basic Nobz SHOULD be base Ld7, a Boss Nob is the leader of the Clans Nobz, why is he identical to other Nobz, smack another attack on him, give him a rule like Ironjaw Brutes used to have, where they get benefits fighting bigger targets (Duff up da Big Thing). Make Cybork bodies actually useful, -1 damage would be nice or even +1 save/5++ to those models that have it. We have 3 sources of 6+++ and each one doesnt do anything if you have 3 iterations of it, poor Snakebites ). Do something with bosspoles, bring it back and do something to Keepin Order.

As Scatha mentioned earlier, Nobz have fallen behind in GW's increasing focus on "elite of the elite" army types (DW, GK, Custodes, Primaris) which has consequently reduced the overall design space not just within the Imperial factions but in xenos as well comparatively. Compared to 5th edition, which is where regular Nobz were at their apex as actual "elite" choices, they have fallen woefully behind as we've been stripped of our survivability options in CC (Cybork bodies not being a 5++ save will forever bother me), wargear, (No more built in WAAAAGH! Banner option) and we fell behind on both bespoke rules and strats that make them useful.

Honestly, at this point if they're not going to bother updating them to feel like an actual elite unit they should make them troops choices so we have some more variety. As is, there's almost no reason not to take Meganobz or Biker Nobz instead.

Making nobs troops would be my favourite option, I think. I'd certainly like to take some units of Nobs if they were replacing Boys as my troops tax.

I'd also like them to get some more interesting guns (maybe a unit of mek-nobs testing out weird weapons, as a short-ranged rival for flash gitz) and a better CC profile. Nobs hitting on 3's seems off, especially when klaws and saws drop this to 4's. Nobs base should hit on 2's.

 some bloke wrote:
Making nobs troops would be my favourite option, I think. I'd certainly like to take some units of Nobs if they were replacing Boys as my troops tax.

I'd also like them to get some more interesting guns (maybe a unit of mek-nobs testing out weird weapons, as a short-ranged rival for flash gitz) and a better CC profile. Nobs hitting on 3's seems off, especially when klaws and saws drop this to 4's. Nobs base should hit on 2's.

I think that's definitely an area where I feel Nobz underperform in general, which is their ability to actually hit people with their CC weapons. Compared to previous editions where we hit most things on 3's regardless of weaponry, it's jarring to see a unit of Meganobz miss half of their attacks when you pay so much for them. It's especially egregious for us because we pretty much have no way to do mass hit re-rolls in CC, unlike marines or other armies where they have that to fall back on.

Also, I feel like rather than "primarising" boyz squads, having more Nobz show up as the core of Ork WAAAAGH!'s is a better reflection of Ghazzy's impact of making angrier, bigger Orks in his conflicts.

Nobs with the trike's twin boomsticks would be awesome.

I agree with everyone here. In 5th nobz were great because they had a Waaagh! Banner, attached doc, 5++ saves, a dedicated battlewagon , could be troops if you had a warboss, kill pretty much any vehicle with 2-3 PKs and charge out of a battlewagon after moving and because of their legendary wound allocation shenanigans.

Just check how much of that has survived till 9th, and you know why they aren't used anymore

Nobz as troops would be amazing.

They can still put on the hurt, just not as much as a lot of other options. But if they were troops then they'd be filling multiple roles.

Twinboomsticks would be epic as well, especially if they can keep a bigchoppa around as well.

The modern "elites" are generally either really annoying to get rid of or dead killy in shooting and melee. Nobz are good in melee but absolute ass in shooting, as the only gun they have access to is mega expensive for meh results.

Unfortunately anything involving options wont happen unless they gave us a new kit. So expecting anything beyond becoming troops and perhaps price adjustments isnt gonna happen. I dont see them updating that kit anytime soon, they'll add an "alternate" one before they redo that one.

I mean, honestly the guns in the Nobz kit DO look like twin boomsticks. That is something they could easily incorporate and I'm pretty sure everyone would take that over the kombi weapons or kustom shootas (why are they still 3 points each?!?). It would also make the current start collecting box make more sense since they would fill one of the mandatory troops slot if they were made troops. GW clearly want to sell more of them since they keep chucking them into all the boxed sets. May as well make them useful than being Nob leaders for boyz squads.

So I have a tournament I am going to in a week or so and thought I would ask for recommendations not on my list, but on secondary's to take! Feel free to comment on the list as well.

I am thinking one obvious one is engage on all fronts... and also banners. Plop in with a kill one based on enemy composition but I was wondering if I am missing a better option for my first two. Thanks anyone who has thoughts.

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:
So I have a tournament I am going to in a week or so and thought I would ask for recommendations not on my list, but on secondary's to take! Feel free to comment on the list as well.

I am thinking one obvious one is engage on all fronts... and also banners. Plop in with a kill one based on enemy composition but I was wondering if I am missing a better option for my first two. Thanks anyone who has thoughts.

Spoiler:

+++ Ork Tournament List (Warhammer 40,000 9th Edition) [89 PL, 7CP, 1,937pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Orks) [89 PL, 6CP, 1,647pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Clan Kultur / Specialist Mobs: Evil Sunz

Detachment CP [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Kustom Force Field [4 PL, 75pts]

Deffkilla Wartrike [7 PL, 125pts]

Warboss on Bike [6 PL, 115pts] - Warlord
-1 CP - Da Biggest Boss
Da Killa Klaw
Warlord Trait: Brutal But Kunnin

+ Troops +

Boyz [8 PL, 101pts]
Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
10x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa: 10x Choppa, 10x Slugga, 10x Stikkbombs

Boyz [8 PL, 101pts]
Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Slugga
Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
10x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa: 10x Choppa, 10x Slugga, 10x Stikkbombs

Gretchin [2 PL, 50pts]
10x Gretchin: 10x Grot Blaster

Gretchin [2 PL, 50pts]
10x Gretchin: 10x Grot Blaster

Gretchin [2 PL, 50pts]
10x Gretchin: 10x Grot Blaster

+ Elites+
Nobz on Warbikes [XPL, 175pts]
5x Nobz on Warbikes w/ Big Choppas

+ Fast Attack +

Kustom Boosta Blastas [10 PL, 180pts]
Kustom Boosta Blastas
Kustom Boosta Blastas

Megatrakk Scrapjet [10 PL, -1CP, 220pts]
Kustom Job: Korkscrew
Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota
Megatrakk Scrapjet: 2x Twin Big Shoota

Shokkjump Dragstas [10 PL, -1CP, 220pts]
Kustom Job: Gyroscopic Whirligig
Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha
Shokkjump Dragstas: Rokkit Launcha

+ Heavy Support +

Gunwagon [10 PL, -1CP, 195pts]: 4x Big Shoota, Killkannon
Kustom Job: Da Boomer

+ Flyer +

Wazbom Blastajet [10 PL, 200pts]: 2x Teleport Mega-Blasta, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [4 PL, 65pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [4 PL, 65pts]: Big Shoota

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I'd actually say raising banners isn't an ideal one just because most of the time I've seen it on lists that have very tanky units that are hard to shift or hordes of guys that block off access to an objective. The units that can pull that off in your list are currently too weedy and easily swept in combat. I've found that for most Ork lists you really only start with Engage on All Fronts, and then the other two secondaries are based on the mission and what your opponent is fielding. At best you go for Deploy Scramblers since your list has enough movement to bring your boyz into the mid-field and enemy backfield and you have grots to deploy the scramblers in your DZ.

Honestly, Nobs just fail because you might as well take Mega Nobs.

Big Choppas simply don't have the AP to be a reliable hammer -- even though 5 ppm isn't too expensive, I've seen my friends make too many 4+ saves (AP-1) for me to be too happy.

Kill saw or Double kill saw, with their price, are just too close to Mega Nobs. Might as well get a 2+ and +1 wound.

Double choppa as an alternate to 10 boys is more interesting to me, imo. 95 points for 5 nobs, 4 w/ double choopa, 1 kill saw / choppa (vs 90 for 10 boys + saw), seems like it could be an interesting choice in a Deathskulls army where they keep Obsec.

But in the grand scheme of things, since boys are required slots, Nobs need to be troops for this option to be interesting.

It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.

The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?

I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.

cody.d. wrote:
It certainly doesn't help that their stateline has fallen behind. There was a time when 2 wound infantry were rare and scary. A nob could go toe to toe with marine frontline infantry and mulch them.

The fact that now their statline is so common that most armies take weaponry specifically to deal with it (Plasma guns, autocannons) means they die far faster than they used to. I'm not sure how or if they will fix unarmoured nobs. Maybe improve their ld buffing ability? Give them a bodyguard ability? Something that rewards them for killing an enemy unit and showing the smaller ladz how it's done proppa?

I mean, in a bubble nobs are pretty okay right? But when you stack them up against their competitors... ehhh their faults start to show.

Yeah this was my point exactly. They have the same statlines from 4th/5th edition with furious charged backed in to their strength. Nobz could tango most independent and squad based characters back then, same with your Warbosses and in the books Nobz were reflected as huge threats. I remember in Purging of Kallidus where a Nob cleaves his way through a squad of Dark Angels in a hab block with his power axe and the Chaplain gets taken to town and it takes the main character launching himself and the Nob out of the window to finish him off by landing on him, destroying the Chaplains armour in the process, the Nob fought the whole way down too! Even ripped of his helmet with his tusks.

But now they are getting outshinned by your basic Marines and Primaris. Personally I dont believe any army should have more close combat attacks that Orks. Why does an Outrider sarge have 7 attacks? Thats more than most if not all HQs in other races. If you compare Goffs to Blood Angels\Space Wolves, its pretty damn shocking how bad Goffs are as a melee subfaction. Could you imagine Orks getting +1 to hit or wound and either more reliably charges or just army wide heroic interventions?! in addition to special doctrines.....

I think Orks need more than datasheet changes, I think they need their fundamental rules updating and brought up in line with Necrons and Marines.

They could just knock off a few PPM and all would be fine. 11 points per nob would make them work just fine no ?